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OthaaJebre 10-09-2000 02:25 AM

Chewie's death...
I thought that it was so stupid that George Lucas ACTUALLY approved the book in which Chewie dies (Vector Prime, isn't it?).

I am not happy with whoever the author is, and thus forth, I am starting a resistance stating that Chewie did not die.

So, do you believe Chewbacca still lives?

nova_wolf 10-09-2000 10:55 AM

Why not - Iit was a cool idea. Okay, Chewie will be greatly missed by all, but then again, look at all the following writing - it is top quality !
And - they have dared to do something that no-one dares to do - they have killed of a main, well established and loved character - that takes some beating.

Nove Squadron, Elite B-Wing flight group stationed aboard the MC Oracle, home of the tech library.

'No capitol too large, no corvette too armed. NOVA squadron, for ALL your extermination needs. Our special at the moment - Eclipse Star Destroyers !'
Commander Jon 'DFMD' Adamson - leader of Nova Squadron (B-Wing ID = 'The White Witch')

Rebel Loyaltist 10-10-2000 04:09 AM

I frankly just don't believe Chewie's dead. I think it was a really stupid idea to have Chewie die. Is there a real reason? My answer is a big NO.....

RL stands for a lot more than Rebel Loyaltist

Real Lover
Really Likable
Real Life
Real Logical
Real Loyal
Real Lucid
Real Lusty

But for the best definition just use Rebel Loyaltist

Nute Gunray 10-10-2000 04:59 PM

Of course he's dead, a moon fell on him.

And that skull with all the decaying flesh on the cover of Vector Prime is Chewie's.

There appears to be a small Japanese girl in my sig.
Gunray--Otaku in training

paulbarnard 10-10-2000 05:27 PM

he had to die. some one had to die in the series. as far as main character goes, it was either him or R2 (since they're the harderst to write dialogue for).

That and the whole concept of either luke or han saving the day in the last chapter was ridiculous and is a major reason Bantam-Spectra lost the series.

All plots are run by lucas. if you read any of the press releases he actually had a hand in the final aproval of the story arc that is being used.

this isn't the good wins at the end. if you've continued to read on in the series chewies death is a major factor in han's life. it results in the crumbling of his marriage, his sinking to suicide/depression. in these books they're losing the war against the vong.

Marril 10-10-2000 09:45 PM

Speaking of the Yuuzhan Vong, they're the single longest-running enemies that the New Republic faces. The Empire had many different admirals and the like, and wasn't one enemy.

But don't you think the Vong are a bit TOO powerful? Even though after Dark Tide they become a bit weaker, they're still too powerful for words. Not even a fully complete DSII would be THAT powerful. (BTW, a fully complete DSII would be invincible from attack "in theory", it was because most of the superstructure was incomplete that they could fly into the core area).

"And it came to pass that the Wrath of Oingo Boingo fell upon the land. And Oingo Boingo cried out and said, "Behold, I have a wrath and I have fallen out upon your land." And the villagers of the land were frightened and proclaimed to Oingo Boing, "Behold, we are frightened, because you have a wrath and have fell upon our land." And Oingo Boingo answered to them, "Its because of you being frightened because of my wrath and falling out upon your land, that I shall destroy you." And Oingo Boingo did so. And it was NOT good, for all those who did see the great Oingo Boingo fell to his wrath."
-Tyais 3:16

Why is it that whenever someone says SOL I am always in trouble... whether it be Standards of Learning or (the other version). I'm always screwed.

[This message has been edited by MISSINGNO. (edited _*-@&-@&^!).]

Fondas 10-11-2000 05:31 AM

Ok, I haven't read the book and probably won't ...
There has been a lot of fuss about the fact that Chewie dies. I cannot quite understand why !
He was never believed as a main character and there is always a possibility to "ressurect", be "cloned" or anything else like that (a narrow escape maybe?) a writter can come up to !

We have to admit that the SW universe has not many examples of "Rebel casualties" and this is a war, after all !

There is a strong rumor that in ROTJ, Lando was not supposed to escape the DSII blast and thus dying heroically for the "cause".
I do remember the dialogue between Leia and Han in the Tyderium:

Leia: "What's wrong?"
Han: "I have this strange feeling that I won't see her (the Millenium Falcon) again "

That would have given an interesting twist in the plot, but GL wanted to give a trully "Happy Ending" to his trilogy

"Citius, Altius, Fortius"

K_Kinnison 10-11-2000 01:52 PM

Actually in the test screening Lando DID die. but the audiance did not like it, and he decided to have him live. you can see Lando is kinda out of it during the final "victory" sceen.

The main problem i have iwth chewie dying is htat it was a real pointless death. Here is a VERY strong aborial who couldn't jump up onto the ramp of the falcon. All to save a little girl he didn't know. I thought his life debt to han was much stronger then that.

Rumor has it in the next series of NJO books after Jedi Eclipse another "main" character is going to die. By Main character that means the big 4.. er 3 (luke, liea, and han) One of the solo kids, or the droids (3po, and r2)

I agree that the Vong are too powerful. the latest book with the Flame beasts, with anti-blaster arosols is gettign out of hand, it is getting more and more unbeliveable how powerful the vong are.

Be nice to have more stories of the Vong liek they did in Hero's trail. The vong need more of a personality then what has been given so far. they need depth.

Everyonce and a while you coudl root for the bad side in SW, now you really dont want to, and that maks a poor antagonist from a writers point of veiw

Nute Gunray 10-11-2000 04:46 PM

All previous sw stories were set as "classic" scifi, in which the good guys always win with no real trouble. The Vong represent "modern" scifi, much darker stories with unstoppable enemies.
I actually read that in a review of Vector Prime. It's a much more realistic storyline because in real life the good guy doesn't always win.

There appears to be a small Japanese girl in my sig.
Gunray--Otaku in training

K_Kinnison 10-11-2000 05:27 PM

I have been talking to long time "Classic" SW fans, and ost of them are getting tired of the NJO novels. It ends up there being no hope, and is painful to read.

K_Kinnison 10-11-2000 05:30 PM

Oh, another thing...

I readone "Moderan" sci-fi book, with the Heros being thwarted at ever turn, it was no SW universe, it was a new one, it was slated for a trilogy.

I read book 1, and i guess the sales weer not there, never saw book 2 or 3

The only reason NJO is doing so well, is because it is SW. If these books were created in a Non-sw format, it would ahve died a long time ago

paulbarnard 10-12-2000 04:03 AM

yes, but what made Empire so great compared (opening another can of worms here) to the other movies was the ending. It made those of us old enough to see in theatres sick. If you're like me, and saw it as a kid, it was probably the first movie where good didn't win in the end (yes they survived, but they didn't win).

NJO is building off the sick feeling at the end...each one has to end with you feeling sicker and sicker. It has to push you beyond what you felt before.

Are the superweapons ridiculous of the Vong? yes. but then again, they dealt with their "Death Star" just as The Alliance dealt with theirs. However the Vong weapons are no different then the Sun Crushers, super intelligence of Thrawn, Dark Sabres, World Devestators etc.

At least these authors are paying back our friends/heroes of the star wars universe.

I'd ask you to read the final chapter of Vector Prime with what Han said after Chewie's death. That's the tone for the rest of the NJO. They'd gotten lucky for so long they thought they were invincible. They weren't

I'll leave with my prediction on who will die next. Mara. It'll devestate Luke causing him to withdraw the Jedi further and further. Watch that blow up a conflict internally.

Paul Barnard
aka Bad Monkey
Knight Watch Shipping Corporation

nova_wolf 10-12-2000 06:36 AM

I have to say that the new series is some of the best writing Ive ever read in the Sci-Fi catagory, because of the very reasons you guys hate it !
They have taken a well established franchise - Star Wars, and modernised it for a new generation, who are not into the old 'Good eventually win in the end'. We want darker stuff, and the death of Chewie is meerly an extreme bit of it, which I found unexpected, but which worked REALLY well.
As for the death of another character, it wont have quite the same fresh ring to it now thta Chewie is down, but never the less, as long as it is done as well as Chewies, and that the subsequent writing is good - whos up first !
But dont get me wrong, it is a loss, and Chewie will be missed, if not least for the comedy that was between he and Han, which was a welcome relief in the more in/tense moments.
Good arent always gonna have a good time of it. The deaths at Yavin and Endor - that were NOT easy wins. The losses suffered by the Rogues and Wraiths - it happens. But they had too easier a time. Now we have a REAL evil - not power mad, not with some inferioirty complex. This is a balls-out Holy War, and its is the perfect situation to bring in the new Jedi.
I like the new stuff, but Im pretty sure that we will wiin in the end, its just gonna take a little longer than usual !
As I have said in many a topic to date - 'Each to their own' (May be I should make that my signatue )

Nove Squadron, Elite B-Wing flight group stationed aboard the MC Oracle, home of the tech library.

'No capitol too large, no corvette too armed. NOVA squadron, for ALL your extermination needs. Our special at the moment - Eclipse Star Destroyers !'
Commander Jon 'DFMD' Adamson - leader of Nova Squadron (B-Wing ID = 'The White Witch')

paulbarnard 10-12-2000 04:12 PM

Amen Brother. Amen

Paul Barnard
aka Bad Monkey
Knight Watch Shipping Corporation

K_Kinnison 10-13-2000 08:04 PM

You all are forgetting one thing about star wars, it is not Science Fiction, it is Space Opera, completly differant things, and that is what NJO is turning SW into, Sci-Fi (that horrible sound of fornicating bug aliens )

ANd i really hated all the boks before hero's Trail, i never understood, why fantesy writers were trying to do space Opera, on an Epic scale. Jsut plain sucked

The next victum to the vong will be R-2 or C3PO, most likey R2. Han is too much of a stong Protaginist, Liea has too much to offer, and it seems stupid to off the only Jedi master (that would be luke)

MYNDONOS 10-14-2000 06:08 AM

Personally, I say bring on the Yuuzhan Vong! I, the King of Everything (has a nice ring doesn't it?) will destroy them, just as every other thing that stood in my way was destroyed! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[This message has been edited by MYNDONOS (edited October 14, 2000).]

paulbarnard 10-14-2000 02:30 PM

Actually Lucas considers himself a Fantasy writer. Ever Read willow or it's follow up sequal novels written by Lucas?

Paul Barnard
aka Bad Monkey
Knight Watch Shipping Corporation

K_Kinnison 10-15-2000 05:10 PM

So if i say i am a Star Wars writer, but create one of the best Star Trek novels ever made, i still a star wars writer?

well maybe that dont makle good sense...

Most of GL idea for star wars came from Mythology, "Hidden Fortress" and some bits of Religion. Yet it was created as a Spae Opera. The "Fanesty" part should be descibed a Sword and sorcery.

Look at the first 3 novels of NJO: Vector Prime, Onslaught 1+2. Both of these revolved around Battleing Vong warriors Jedi vs Vong, even ended with a Big saber/staff battle. and yet the polotics, and Character Quests were discared.

Then comes "agent's of chaos. both books are VERY well done, both sides are trying to outguess eachotehr, and single ppl are trying to make a differance, yet not doing much in the big sceme of things, and who wrote the first three? Fantesy writers, which mainly tell stories from first or 2nd point of veiw. look at the writer for "agents" He complete CO-wrote the ENTIRE Robotech novels. Very strong back ground in Space Opera, and his books are on a par with T. Zahn (IMHO)

yes Star wars has it's base in Fantesy, but it is NOT fantesy, it's space opera. what is space opera?

Look at the novels written by E.E. "Doc" smith, one of the best Space Opera Writers to grace this earth. Namely the Lensman series, and Skylark series

MYNDONOS 10-15-2000 08:53 PM

Chewie's death- the single most contreversial event in star wars history. I have to say I agree with it, though I don't like it. But it helped along the series, and I believe sacrifices for the good of the saga are in the best. When I first read about the death I was in school. For the rest of the day I walked around in a daze, with two words ringing in my head "Chewie's dead". Nothing Star Wars seems the same now, like rereading the older novels which talk about Chewie, and the empty feeling that always comes when I remember his death. It was about three months that I couldn't even bring myself to look at Vector Prime. When I finally read it again, I skipped over the part where Chewie died. It took me about a week to bring myself to even read that part again, and I assure you, the closure is incredible. I faced the fact and moved on. Star Wars just isn't the same until you do that.

"The data however, showed that greater concentrations of Lanthinide increased E-C coupling which is completely contradictory to know effects of Lanthinide as an inhibitor of cytoplasmic streaming."

paulbarnard 10-16-2000 02:39 AM

don't know if chewies dead is the most contrversy. Definitely had the most reaction.

I still think Dark Empire series bringing back the empire and the stupid clone things was worse.

Paul Barnard
aka Bad Monkey
Knight Watch Shipping Corporation

Taarkin 10-16-2000 03:10 AM

AOC #2 is out?! ^$#*!

I'm not to fond of the Vong. I can understand crabs deflecting lightsabers, but snakes? And how the hell do you domsesticate bugs, anyway?

Was I supposed to eat the heads too? 'Cause I took nooo prisioners!

Once again, evil is defeated through the use of decorative agricultural technology!

Official forum Psychic

paulbarnard 10-16-2000 03:49 AM

yes. I believe it's Called JEDI ECLIPSE.

Don't know. but then again, i found it a little to convient that light sabers are stopped by only one stone in the SW Galaxy.

There's more than one way to take superman out. :P

Paul Barnard
aka Bad Monkey
Knight Watch Shipping Corporation

nova_wolf 10-16-2000 08:48 AM

I just had a look back, and I think that the correct thing to pick up on here is the classifcation of Star Wars.
It is one of theose futuristic ideas that actually goes beyond Sci-Fi.
As K_K said - its a 'Space Opera'. It is written like a tragedy. And look at all the operas and tragedies - good guys lose is some MAJOR ways. This would count as major. The writers, and Lucas by implication and authorisation, are re-establishing themselves in for new genration, whilst still keeping what makes the whole Star Wars storyline so great - that its more than sword and spocery and fighter scenes. Morals, family, character dvelopment, tension - Space Operatics, yet darker. This is a GREAT re-invention of the series, from a point of view of the writing being produced, and in tetrms of the business' future !

Nove Squadron, Elite B-Wing flight group stationed aboard the MC Oracle, home of the tech library.

'No capitol too large, no corvette too armed. NOVA squadron, for ALL your extermination needs. Our special at the moment - Eclipse Star Destroyers !'
Commander Jon 'DFMD' Adamson - leader of Nova Squadron (B-Wing ID = 'The White Witch')

K_Kinnison 10-16-2000 01:21 PM

I just finished Jedi Eclipse, i hated the ending, you hae all this build up for a big battle, and it gets ruined. I dont want to give it away, but i am not very happy with it...


I mean a rousing Success, where the heros can come back striking thier colors, and proclaiming that the end is near, kinda like the ending of ANH, or ROTJ.

I will read 1 more book of NJO and if i dont like it, i will stop trying to collect every star wars novel in existance (at lest i will ignore the NJO universe)

paulbarnard 10-16-2000 02:42 PM

I had the same impression from Jedi Eclipse. But remember, this is book 2 of a three book series.

AS for ignoring the order, that's your choice. But at some time, our heroes will pull their collective heads out of thier asses and win one or win it all. I for one can't wait for that one. But it has to ROTJ. Everything has to be going against them at the time. Everything isn't against them yet...

Paul Barnard
aka Bad Monkey
Knight Watch Shipping Corporation

[This message has been edited by paulbarnard (edited October 18, 2000).]

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