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-   -   Tech News and Gossip thread... (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=183058)

Negative Sun 10-19-2007 09:21 AM

Tech News and Gossip thread...
 
Instead of creating new threads every time AMD/ATi, nVidia or Intel try to blow us away with the latest technology, I thought we might as well keep it all in the same thread to keep it nice and tidy since most of these topics are related in some way or another...
My main sources are The Inquirer and CustomPC, but I don't check them all the time or feel like sharing info all the time (because it's not always worthy of its own thread lolz), but this thread might be a good way to keep each other up to date I believe.

I'll go first ;)

AMD loses $396 mill
^ Funniest part is this:
"Rival Intel made $1.86 billion in a simlar period, but still decided to cut costs by axing 2,000 staffers."
I am never buying another Intel product, no matter how much better their benchmarks might be...

But AMD isn't quite bankrupt yet...
^ A longer read, but interesting nonetheless, with a bit more info on the 45nm cores coming up...here's hoping they pull it off.

What's in a name for a GPU?
^ Ati's RV670 name game speculation (HD3700/3800???)

Astrotoy7 10-19-2007 01:40 PM

my only concern with such 'ongoing' threads is that someone is needed to keep them ongoing! are you volunteering negsun ?? :p

mtfbwya

Boba Rhett 10-19-2007 01:50 PM

He volunteered! We all saw him do it! :carms:

*tethers Neg to this thread*

Negative Sun 10-19-2007 04:16 PM

Lolz if you've spent some time around this forum lately you'll know that that won't be a problem for me :)

Just don't force me to make double or triple posts and at least nod in approval to my posts (or shake your head if you must, but since I'm always right I fail to see the point in that ;) )

Negative Sun 10-20-2007 07:11 PM

Matrox releases pwnage GPUs!!!

lolz, J/K...Well at least they're not quitters!

Det. Bart Lasiter 10-20-2007 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negative Sun
"Rival Intel made $1.86 billion in a simlar period, but still decided to cut costs by axing 2,000 staffers."
I am never buying another Intel product, no matter how much better their benchmarks might be...

I applaud you for your righteous fury.




I hope Intel buys AMD.

Negative Sun 10-21-2007 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmac7142
I hope Intel buys AMD.

That would only harm one group of people in the end: the consumer.

The only reason Intel has been so competitively priced and has brought out good value chips is because AMD is their main competitor, without that they'll become complacent and probably scr*w the costumer over even more.
*cough*look at M$*cough*

Negative Sun 10-22-2007 09:22 PM

Ati's HD3870 and nVidia's GeForce 8800GT (benchies!) are getting prepped for release...

This looks like a battle that'll benefit the consumer IMO

Astrotoy7 10-24-2007 10:47 AM

Intel buy AMD... thats crazy talk !!

It'd more likely be a mega-conglomerate interested in entering the CPU market, like sony for example. Theyve always said theyre going to do it, Im not sure what they are currently up to....

I cant see it happening anytime soon though. Even if phenom doesnt take off for the desktop/gaming crowd, the server market, ATI products and project fusion will keep them around for a whiles yet.... For the same reasons as negsun, I'd never purchase an intel product again..... pull them out of pcs in the dumpster, yes :) (like the dual core pentium d powering my media center pc)

mtfbwya

Negative Sun 10-24-2007 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
It'd more likely be a mega-conglomerate interested in entering the CPU market, like sony for example.

Samsung has been whispered as well, which would please me more than Sony cause Samsung have been putting high quality and value products out there for quite a while now...

stingerhs 10-24-2007 02:44 PM

AMD not only posts gains, but it still manages to get some market share from Intel!!! man, is this some good news for AMD. it might not be much of a market share gain, but its a good sign that AMD isn't done fightin' the good fight. :D

Negative Sun 10-24-2007 03:53 PM

Nice one, hey that's almost a quarter of the market share, and since it's not peanuts we're talking about here that's still some good money they must make!

ChAiNz.2da 10-25-2007 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negative Sun
Samsung has been whispered as well, which would please me more than Sony cause Samsung have been putting high quality and value products out there for quite a while now...

Indeed :D Anyone catch this nice little tid-bit?

Samsung makes mega memory microchip

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNN
Samsung, the world's largest maker of computer memory chips, unveiled a 64-gigabit NAND flash memory chip based on finer process technology using circuit elements that are 30 nanometers wide.

High-density flash storage is gaining ground and becoming ever so closer :emodanc:

Negative Sun 10-25-2007 04:12 PM

Breaking News: Windows XP boots on Mac!!!
 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...on-macbook.jpg

Sorry if you've seen this before it was just too great not to share :p

Merged from other thread...it was a 'news' item after all :p -astro

Negative Sun 10-25-2007 04:26 PM

Aye the SSD drives are supposed to be pwnage as they load games and apps in a flash (forgive the pun I just had to ;) )

I read that same article here Chainz, it's very interesting :)

So their co-operation or even purchase with/of AMD can only be a good thing in my book, give the whole Intel crowd a spank on the buttocks :)

Negative Sun 10-28-2007 04:37 PM

w00t a whitepaper .pdf file has leaked with Ati's upcoming HD3800 series and DX10.1 features detailed in it...grab it while it's here

The original article I found it on is here on the Inq site...

Tis exciting yesyes!

Edit:
To keep things balanced and unbiased, here's the (alleged) first review of the 8800GT!
Very good results I must say, and very consistent too, shame for all the GTS owners out there cause this puppy owns it lolz

Astrotoy7 10-28-2007 11:17 PM

I wish there was a bit more to that review.. :p

Still, this is a perfect opportunity to start a rant about hardware manufacturers taking the enthusiast crowd for a ride.

I like tech as much as the next guy, but putting everything into context, and considering the prices of the higher end items, there are some very important provisos here..

I can say this specifically applies to CPU and GPU hardware in particular. People should think about...

1. What do you actually do with your computer ??

2. What monitor do you have, what is its max rez and output frequency

Im lucky enough to have a monitor that outputs at 1600p, but it outputs this at 60Hz. This means that anything I can EVER hope to do is capped at 60fps. At lower resolutions, it allows for a higher frequency and hence higher fps... Hence, I can play Bioshock, Oblivion etc at 1600p with maxed out settings and keep a steady and pretty 60fps with no problems with my 8800GTS. This was why I never forked out that extra $200+ for the GTX. Until a monitor that does 1600p at 120Hz comes out, I wouldnt bother with a higher end card.

Most monitors people have lurk around the 70-75Hz mark. Hence, when considering their purchases they need to keep this in mind. Do they need the GTX which gets 103fps for <insert game here> or could they get by with the GTS or ATI equivalent which does 82fps with all effects on ?? That 21fps reported by fraps etc doesnt make it to your eyes, so why should you bother ?? Ive always asked this of gaming tech-heads and have never gotten a response that makes any sense. It is difficult to talk about 'future proofing' for GPUs, with DX10 revisions, not many of the 'enthusiast' crowd are investing in a gfx card now that they can have in 3 years time.

There are a few 1080p screens out which operate at at 120Hz, but they are very expensive and actually oriented towards the home theater crowd atm. I havent seen a 1600p monitor that does 120Hz yet, though Im sure they arent too far away ;)

Quiet simply, the GPU manufacturers do a really great job at duping the higher end purchasers out of their cash - which is quite annoying :blast5:

This can even be argued with CPUs as well nowdays. With the constant revisions Intel and AMD are making, a 3 year old CPU will never perform as well as its contemporary.

For those working with applications that involve high end CPU and GPU demand, eg. graphical, HD video editing/compositing and animation apps, the argument for going high end is stronger - though these people will more likely have custom built(often mac based) pcs running a quadro card, simple as that.

So, at the end of it all, buying the highest end tech should be a purchase you should think about carefully. It's a high price to pay for bragging rights !

As for myself, the 8800GTS is handling itself OK at 1600p considering its 60fps cap... until a bunch of games come out that I really want to play actually challenge this, I now have the opportunity to squander cash on something other than my pc !! (actually saving for a holiday atm) :p

[/end rant]

mtfbwya

Negative Sun 10-29-2007 07:25 AM

That's totally true, I mean here I am playing Jade Empire and NWN2 on my OC'ed Barton 2600+ 2.1Ghz and GeForce 6800...All this stuff is like years old technology wise, but does it still do the trick? Hell yeah.

That's why even if I do get around to upgrading next time I'll probably be going for the X2 5000+ Black Edition and a cheapo X1950Pro, why? Cause that's all I'll ever need, my monitor atm is 16", when I ever upgrade to a new monitor the max I'd go for is probably a 19" or 22" widescreen one...which caps at about 1680x1050

Consider the fact that you'll never see me playing Oblivion or FEAR or STALKER or even Crysis (not a huge FPS fan, though I might give Crysis a go at the lowest setting in the future), I don't really need much more than that.

It's the same with overclockers these days, they buy a rediculously expensive chip to OC it even more wheras the whole point of it (IMO) is to buy a cheap chip and pwn people who paid lots more for the same performance. [/rant #2] :p

Jae Onasi 10-29-2007 07:38 AM

That and our critical flicker frequency (where we see something as a continual light instead of as a series of flashes) is maxed out for most people below 50 Hz, unless you have an extremely bright big spot of light. Some people can go up to 65 Hz (and a few with super-eyes may perceive higher frequencies), but most of us looking at a monitor won't perceive anything different past 60 Hz anyway. Now, if you have a game that won't keep the fps up around 60 unless you have a humongous graphic card, then it might be worth it.

All you never wanted to know about critical flicker frequency.

Astrotoy7 10-29-2007 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
That and our critical flicker frequency (where we see something as a continual light instead of as a series of flashes) is maxed out for most people below 50 Hz, unless you have an extremely bright big spot of light. Some people can go up to 65 Hz (and a few with super-eyes may perceive higher frequencies), but most of us looking at a monitor won't perceive anything different past 60 Hz anyway. Now, if you have a game that won't keep the fps up around 60 unless you have a humongous graphic card, then it might be worth it.

All you never wanted to know about critical flicker frequency.

Thanks Jae. I was going to go digging for a similar article. 60 is indeed the magic number it seems. There are some who state aiming for 80fps in games as a top end is good as it it means your lower end or mean fps can sit around 60... but this is very variable depending on which game, which settings and what hardware.

I wonder about those 120Mhz home theater TVs. Not even the highest definition video formats clock in at 120fps! Heck, blu-ray doesnt even go anywhere near it...

I smell a sales gimmick aimed at the cashed up home theater crowd :(

mtfbwya

Jae Onasi 10-29-2007 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
I wonder about those 120Mhz home theater TVs. Not even the highest definition video formats clock in at 120fps! Heck, blu-ray doesnt even go anywhere near it...

I smell a sales gimmick aimed at the cashed up home theater crowd :(

mtfbwya

Well, the general perception is bigger/faster/stronger/whatever is better (I smell a Ray comment coming.... :D ), but I bet most people have never heard of critical flicker frequency, much less know that there's actually a cap to what the eye can perceive. So, I can't _entirely_ blame the sales force. My guess is that most companies don't have vision specialists on staff to point these things out, and with the drive to improve fps rates, even if some specialist did point that out, Joe Public wants the higher fps even though it doesn't make a difference. The companies risk being left behind if they don't keep up with what the market wants or perceives it wants.

Negative Sun 10-29-2007 09:49 AM

When I was working in optics I found it funny that people spent loads on a fancy HDTV but didn't care to buy glasses when their distance VA was below par lolz...You just spent thousands on a TV but your sight isn't even sharp enough to make out the difference with your old one!

*sigh* people, whatcha gonna do with em?

Q 10-29-2007 06:14 PM

Well, Here's a decent review of the 8800GT.

Once all of the price-gouging dust settles after the initial launch it should be a good deal. Hell, it outperforms the GTS (640MB) for less money (even with the blatant price-gouging!) and gets quite close to GTX levels in some games. It also uses less power than either one. It also has all of the video encode/decode features of the 8600xx cards, which both the GTS and GTX lack.

I can't wait to see how the HD3800 stacks up to it.

Negative Sun 10-29-2007 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qliveur
I can't wait to see how the HD3800 stacks up to it.

Same here...

Char Ell 10-30-2007 09:16 AM

I'm happy to see that the 8800 GT made progress in reduction of power consumption, probably due almost entirely to the shrink to 65 nm process. I'm also pleased that NVIDIA is also supporting more video decoding formats on the hardware side, like the lower-end 8xxx cards do. After buying my 7800 GTX back in 2005 I learned that it's often times better to wait for the new mid-range card to show up (7950 GT) as that often has better performance/price ratio. The 8800 GT confirms my theory as Anandtech says the 8800 GT should be priced in the USD$200-250 range and that is my sweet spot for a graphics card price point.

Is AMD's new RV670 chip going to be produced as the HD3800?

Negative Sun 10-30-2007 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Char Ell
Is AMD's new RV670 chip going to be produced as the HD3800?

Seems like it, I read in an article they wanted to step away from the HD2000 name because it didn't impress much...True, false? I dunno. But that seems to be the name they're going for.

In other news:
There's an article on the first Intel Penryn (45nm) chip here

It's the Quad Extreme version though, so not your average Joe chip, they did a few benchies and an OC as well and they seem quite impressed with the first 45nm chip out there...It runs quite cool and uses less juice apparently, now let's just see AMD get their finger out and actually roll out some good hm?

Astrotoy7 10-31-2007 07:55 AM

lolz...after being reminded of the workings of the human eye, thanks to Jae's very informative post, Ive all of a sudden become very disinterested in the GT or anything for that matter. Im strictly applying a "does it do 60fps at 1080-1600p" rule to any game I buy now... my guess is my GTS will serve me for a whiles to come.

I think Im slowly breaking free of my CPU upgrade obsession... we're planning to go see the pyramids next year, so more spending money for me :D

but we'll see how the GTS handles crysis :p

mtfbwya

Negative Sun 11-03-2007 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7
I think Im slowly breaking free of my CPU upgrade obsession... we're planning to go see the pyramids next year, so more spending money for me :D

The way I see it is that nothing can really bottleneck your CPU as quickly as it'll bottleneck your RAM or HDD or GPU or whatever...So unless you're running an absolute dinosaur, you should be good for at least a few more years (and I recall you've got an X2 6000+ so that'll cut it for a wee while yet I'm sure...plus the socket AM2 is supposed to hold all AM2+ and AM3 CPUs as well so even then you wouldn't even have to change you mobo)

OT: Watch out in Egypt it absolutely scorches there and you'll be surrounded by armed guards to visit the Piramids (Israel is just around the corner after all and they loves to shoot the Arab peoples yes they do)[/strong political opinion]

Q 11-03-2007 10:11 PM

^^^
That's because the Arabs just love to don suits of C4 and nails when they use the Isreali public transportation system. :D

Both sides are vicious killers; the Isrealis are just more efficient.[/rebuttal] ;)

Astrotoy7 11-04-2007 10:29 AM

Negsun & Q>> this is the tech area. Need I say more about wandering RIDICULOUSLY off topic?? Wander off to the senate chambers if you want to discuss such topics, sensibly.

OT:

Looks like the OLPC(one laptop per child) project got a great boost with the recent release of the Asus Eee.... a laptop for $400US

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=4055

Great lappie for students..runs Linux of course ;)

*Processor: Intel Celeron M ULV 900MHz
*Graphics: Integrated Intel GMA 900 GPU
*Storage: 4GB of Flash-based storage (SSD)
*Memory: 512MB of DDR2 RAM (667MHz)
*OS: Xandros Linux (Asus customized)
*Screen: 7-inch screen with 800 x 480 resolution
*Ports: 3 USB 2.0, 1 VGA monitor out, headphone jack, microphone input, SD card reader (SDHC compatible), Kensington lock slot, Ethernet 10/100
*Webcam (0.3 MP)
*Battery: 4-cell 5200 mAh 7.4V Li-Ion (rated at 3.5 hours)
*Wireless: 802.11b/g Atheros
*Input: Keyboard and Touchpad
*Weight: approximately 2 lbs with battery, 2.5 lbs travel weight with AC adapter.

http://www.notebookreview.com/assets/27838.jpg

Im not being facetious when I say its good to see linux being utilised in such a way. Software support will most likely be provided by the vendors, though as its designed for general use, shouldnt encounter massive issues Id imagine. No "OMG...IM not getting full DX10 lighting effects in Crysis with nvidia driver version 16x.xx..." :p

mtfbwya

stingerhs 11-06-2007 08:47 AM

well, Nvidia is about to lose a lot of wind out of their sales with the 8800 GT. the "new" Radeon 3800 series launch is soon upon us (November 19), and the prices will range from $150 -$179 for the 3850 and $200 - $230 for the 3870 series. this will put the new Radeons in an excellent price range for mainstream buyers, and the performance is supposed to be on par or better than the current 2900 XT's. and since these cards use a 55nm GPU, its my guess that overclocking is going to be a dream. :D

source

Negative Sun 11-06-2007 11:14 AM

@ Astro, sorry about that ;)

Asus seem keen on stepping up to play in the big league, and they're quite right! I personally haven't used Asus but I've never heard a bad word about them either (I've been using MSI products for many years now and will continue to do so cause I'm familiar with their BIOS and all that, it doesn't have all the latest tricks and maybe isn't as popular, but it works for me and I like them :) )



Quote:

Originally Posted by stingerhs
well, Nvidia is about to lose a lot of wind out of their sales with the 8800 GT. the "new" Radeon 3800 series launch is soon upon us (November 19), and the prices will range from $150 -$179 for the 3850 and $200 - $230 for the 3870 series. this will put the new Radeons in an excellent price range for mainstream buyers, and the performance is supposed to be on par or better than the current 2900 XT's. and since these cards use a 55nm GPU, its my guess that overclocking is going to be a dream. :D

source

Good read that, here's hoping the bechies and reviews are favorable to them and it looks AMD/Ati are at least back in the GPU race for the win...

Negative Sun 11-15-2007 03:49 PM

Here's a tech report on the new HD3850 and 3870...It's a very good read, and apparently an extremely good buy at those price points.

Interesting stuff, looks like it's 8800GT vs HD3800 for a spot under the Xmas tree :xD:

Q 11-17-2007 01:01 PM

I love it when my predictions come true. :)

Keep in mind that it's Fudzilla, and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt (just like the Inquirer), but the pictures look legit. Looks like ATI's taking the single card, multi-GPU plunge first.

Negative Sun 11-17-2007 05:49 PM

If the price is right that's a better idea than SLI or XFire cause it doesn't involve purchasing a particular motherboard either...

stingerhs 11-17-2007 11:35 PM

^^^^
well, the 790X/FX boards are impressive enough for me to recommend them over Intel's X38 which is currently the only real competition feature-wise. so, i think its kind of a so-so idea to put a multi-GPU card on the market when you can just get two 3850's on a 790X/FX board probably for less money and still have very similar performance.

granted, that's not going to help if you want a C2D proc, but i still think its the best solution. besides, its my guess that ATI desperately needs to put out a card that can truely challenge the 8800 GTX. so, i guess this card fills that void, but i still don't think that its the best solution. ;)

Negative Sun 11-18-2007 07:00 AM

Remains to see if two GPUs in XFire suck more juice than one dual one...But it also makes the idea of having two dual GPUs in XFire quite interesting if AMD have got the right drivers to support it :)

Astrotoy7 11-18-2007 07:16 AM

I dunno... even if it did work out 'cheaper than a 8800' to get a sli/x-fire setup going... it has been proven *over* and *over* that such link interfacing setups only really deliver at high rez setups.. (except crysis!) If someone wants to be ''1337 pwnage'' at 1280x1024, they should save their money(and electricity) and stick to a single decent card.

mtfbwya

Negative Sun 11-18-2007 11:14 AM

True, but AMD and nVidia are persevering with those chipsets and such so surely they must see something useful in it lolz...

stingerhs 11-18-2007 05:10 PM

^^^^
indeed, and it looks something like this:
Quote:

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:xp:


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