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Shem 03-17-2009 06:13 PM

Hypothetical TFU 2 Plot [Spoilers]
 
Well, I have had this thought in my mind for quite some time and since there hasn't been a whole lot of discussion of the game in recent months along with the fact it will never build a modding community to make it a bigger community, I thought I would share thoughts that came to mind that I know some people may have interest in.

One thing I've noticed that people do not like is the fact that Starkiller, Darth Vader's secret apprenticed sacrificed his life in order to save the lives of the co-founders of the Rebel Alliance. It was tragic that he did die, but you had to kill him because he was way too powerful not to be in the original Star Wars trilogy. It was a way to tie up the loose ends.

Now, here is a thought I've had for a few months now that I have decided to share with you. Let's think hypothetically: What if Starkiller didn't die? What if Vader and Sidious thought he was dead at first, but realize later he really wasn't. He didn't have any visual marks on his body that would make you believe he was dead, though that really doesn't mean anything in the Star Wars universe if you know how things work.

So you're wondering where I'm going with this. Let's assume Starkiller didn't die. So what do you do with him in order to make it so he isn't a factor in the original trilogy, but keep him alive? You put him in prison. Once the Empire is defeated, the founders of the New Republic find him in prison somewhere. Now, keep in mind that if he didn't die there on the Death Star like we all presummed, it would almost be probable that the Emperor would kill him as he probably is too powerful to be kept alive. But how often do people not kill their enemies when they should have in movies? Like why did Mace Windu hesitate to kill Sidious to give Anakin enough time to react and save the Dark Lord? Why were the battle droids in TPM not opening fire on the surrendered Gungans, but instead are rounding them up as prisoners when Sidious ordered all of them to be wiped out before the battle started? Let's go one further. Starkiller didn't kill the Emperor when he had the chance.

Okay, so Starkiller is found alive and in prison by the Emperor after the events of the original trilogy. Maybe the Emperor had him tortured to make him suffer for all the problems Sidious was having with the Rebellion and that is the only reason the Emperor is keeping him alive is to get some satisfaction from it. Who knows? Maybe the reason Starkiller is willing himself to live is because he longs to be with Juno and hasn't given up hope that he'll be with her again some day.

Later, Juno then finds out that her long lost love is still alive after the Rebellion defeats the Empire. There you have the grounds to start a sequel to The Force Unleased. Then you come up with a story where the New Republic will not survive if Starkiller isn't finding along their side.

Now, if I was working for LucasArts and was trying to come up with a sequel to TFU, this would be an idea I would present to them. Unfortunately, I don't, so I wouldn't count on this idea you're reading to happen.

GeneralPloKoon 03-18-2009 12:27 AM

The is the perfect idea of a sequel, if you worked at Lucasarts, I would be praising you! The New Republic era is so much more free to create new characters and such, we wouldn't have to worry about colliding with the Star Wars movie canon! Excellent idea Shem!

TKA-001 03-18-2009 09:40 AM

If Galen survives, then his sacrifice is completely invalidated, just like the appearance of Sith in post-Episode 6 EU invalidated the sacrifice of Anakin Skywalker.

Quote:

What if Starkiller didn't die? What if Vader and Sidious thought he was dead at first, but realize later he really wasn't.
It is an intriguing idea, but I'd rather Vader and Sidious not look like any more of a pair of idiots than the EU has already made them.

Quote:

how often do people not kill their enemies when they should have in movies? Like why did Mace Windu hesitate to kill Sidious to give Anakin enough time to react and save the Dark Lord? Why were the battle droids in TPM not opening fire on the surrendered Gungans, but instead are rounding them up as prisoners when Sidious ordered all of them to be wiped out before the battle started? Let's go one further.
No, let's not go one further. Just because people act stupid in one place doesn't excuse other people being stupid elsewhere. Besides, you're not proposing merely going one further. The examples which you cite from the movies are spur-of-the-moment decisions, while your case involves Darth Sidious deliberately keeping Galen alive for years.

Quote:

Starkiller didn't kill the Emperor when he had the chance.
Galen never got a chance in the first place. The fact that Sidious jumps to his feet the second Galen's back is turned makes it clear that he was playing dead.

Quote:

Maybe the Emperor had him tortured to make him suffer for all the problems Sidious was having with the Rebellion and that is the only reason the Emperor is keeping him alive is to get some satisfaction from it.
It fits with Palpy's character somewhat, but again, I like to think that he's a little smarter than that. Still, the overall idea of Galen being imprisoned would be salvageable if it ended with him being crushed like a bug by Sidious some time during the Dark Empire trilogy.

Jeff 03-18-2009 10:03 AM

Hmm, not sure what I think of this idea. It does sound cool, but not sure if it's very plausible that he'd survive all that time. I don't know enough about post-RotJ EU to know how much of the canon is filled in but are all the stories in that era already written? I can't say I can come up with anything better though. :p

Shem 03-18-2009 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2603227)
If Galen survives, then his sacrifice is completely invalidated, just like the appearance of Sith in post-Episode 6 EU invalidated the sacrifice of Anakin Skywalker.

Well, then this would fit perfectly for that time period. :xp:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2603227)
Galen never got a chance in the first place. The fact that Sidious jumps to his feet the second Galen's back is turned makes it clear that he was playing dead.

What game did you play? Starkiller was about to kill the Emperor and Kota stopped him. As soon as Starkiller agreed not to kill him within a few moments he let his guard down when the Rogue Shadow showed up. Then Sidious used that opportunity to his advantage. Anybody (besides you) who's played this game can testify to that. He had him and he hesitated because he listened to the advice of his mentor, Kota.

Now, I don't want to use this thread to argue about whether or not Starkiller lost his opportunity to kill Sidious since it's off topic. This is about using the idea that Starkiller survived and the Emperor imprisoned him and possibly tortured him for his own pleasure, which villains are known to do you know. Basically finding a way to bring him back alive to do a sequel and this idea is plausible and fits in character of what happens in lots of movies.

Zerimar Nyliram 03-18-2009 05:18 PM

I do quite like that idea, Shem. You do realize, however, that if LucasArts had anything remotely similar to that in mind, they now have to scrap it and start all over again simply because you chose not to keep it to yourself, for fear of a lawsuit, right? ;)

But like I said, I like it. The only problem is that the novel confirms Galen's death by describing his consciousness rising from his body beyond the confines of the Death Star before fading away. Of course, they could always overrule this if they wanted to, or write it off as a momentary near-death/out-of-body experience.

But like I said, they can't use it now. :( So in essence, none of our little hypotheses will ever be correct since Lucas Film watches forums such as this one like a hawk.

On_Your_Six 03-19-2009 01:45 PM

I'm not sure why Galen has to remain the protagonist, or why the "sequel" should be set further along in the continuity. TFU is an ambiguous enough name to neither refer to a specific character, or timeline, may as well keep the horizons open with that in mind.

I'd just as soon (keeping with working for the Sith idea) like to see the next TFU set in the time of the Sith before the "Rule of Two". It's been awhile since I've read any of the EU stuff, but the Freedon Nadd Uprising (or something similar) timeline sounds like it would make for some great settings.

Zwier Zak 03-19-2009 05:59 PM

Starkiller is dead. And good riddance. JK4 is the way to go. ;]

Shem 03-19-2009 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwier Zak (Post 2603668)
Starkiller is dead. And good riddance. JK4 is the way to go. ;]

And what does your comment have to do with this topic? It's still funny to see someone who hates this game and the main character hang out here to just post crap about it, even if it's off topic. Why don't you go find a forum about a game you like and hang out there?


Quote:

Originally Posted by On_Your_Six (Post 2603596)
I'm not sure why Galen has to remain the protagonist, or why the "sequel" should be set further along in the continuity. TFU is an ambiguous enough name to neither refer to a specific character, or timeline, may as well keep the horizons open with that in mind.

I agree with this idea based on that fact that you don't have to use Starkiller again to create a sequel. I do like the idea of another game using the game engine they used for TFU and I hope they do have plans for another game coming soon because of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by On_Your_Six (Post 2603596)
I'd just as soon (keeping with working for the Sith idea) like to see the next TFU set in the time of the Sith before the "Rule of Two". It's been awhile since I've read any of the EU stuff, but the Freedon Nadd Uprising (or something similar) timeline sounds like it would make for some great settings.

My idea of a sequel outside of the Starkiller storyline would be a game involving Darth Maul and his role as a Sith apprentice before the events of TPM and watching him grow in power.

Zerimar Nyliram 03-19-2009 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwier Zak (Post 2603668)
Starkiller is dead. And good riddance. JK4 is the way to go. ;]

Uh, I think there has to be a Jedi Knight 3 first. ;) (And no, that wasn't what Jedi Academy was. That game was a spin-off, not a sequel.)

But anyway, that's enough thread derailment for one night.

Ztalker 03-20-2009 12:44 PM

I like the idea very much. Too bad whole the EU is already crammed full with material.
If he wouldn't meet EU characters (maybe fighting in the Unknown regions after escaping) I see possibilities. Otherwise...

gallandro 03-22-2009 03:53 PM

I'll probably get slammed for this, but I would personally love to see good ol' Luke Skywalker be the protagonist in TFU 2. The story would be easy to come up with.

I think Luke has the perfect mix of massive power and unstable emotional contraint to be a character that continues to struggle with the darkside.

It could involve his efforts to restart the Jedi Order. I would love for him to discover, during the adventure, the apprentice's history.

There's potential for good story telling, and since it's post ROTJ, the environments are limitless. And we could still kill stormtroopers (there were factions that were still around).

Personally, I would like it if he came upon a unknown secret imperial facility where he discovers that the Emporer had cloned the Jedi Council, then raised them to serve the darkside. In the course of that first level, the council clones escape from this secret facility and go throughout the galaxy... then Luke has to track them each down and stop them. Each one could have his own batallion of clone troopers he commands... which would provide the fodder.

Seeing Luke go toe to toe with Mace, Yoda, young Obi Wan, and ultimately a young clone of his own father... I think that could be fun... and I think there would be cool story possibilities... like, maybe some of the clones overcome the darkness and end up joining Luke (thereby unlocking them as playable characters).

Anyway, I digress. That's what I'd like to see.

Zerimar Nyliram 03-22-2009 08:00 PM

Well, cloning is always on the cheesy side quite a bit (Dark Empire being the par excellence example). Although, in The Force Unleashed novelization, Kazdan Paratus' Jedi Council junk droids come to life and attack Galen, which was pretty cool. I was disappointed that that didn't happen in the game.

GeneralPloKoon 03-22-2009 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2604670)
Well, cloning is always on the cheesy side quite a bit (Dark Empire being the par excellence example). Although, in The Force Unleashed novelization, Kazdan Paratus' Jedi Council junk droids come to life and attack Galen, which was pretty cool. I was disappointed that that didn't happen in the game.

I thought they did attack?!

Shem 03-22-2009 11:50 PM

Well, let's continue on for fun.

I already made a hypothesis about how Starkiller survived the battle in the Emperor's throne room and to me it was always odd how Starkiller died, yet the Emperor was unscratched.

Anyway, so Starkiller finds out about Luke Skywalker's heroics and the downfall of the Empire and they become acquainted with each other. The thing about using Starkiller again for a sequel game (where he's obviously going to be the good guy here even though he knows how to use the dark side of the Force sort of like Kyle Katarn) is to establish how is he going to be needed. There is no point in bringing him back unless he is needed. How is Luke Skywalker going to be connected in this? It would be smart to use his character and somehow work together in this plot as it will connect audiences well, especially if Luke is still learning more about his Force Powers. Perhaps Starkiller can train with him to help him become stronger, but make it a short part of the plot as you don't want to focus too much on that, but the upcoming problem you're going to have.

Having Luke and Starkiller the only Jedi in the galaxy at the time of the Emperor's death could something to build on.

GeneralPloKoon 03-23-2009 12:04 AM

Starkiller could be an unkown underground Jedi fighting against the Imperial Remant secretly. The New Republic could begin a secret investigation of who is casuing massive damage to the remaining Imperial forces. Luke Skywlaker could be at the head of the investigation.

Ctrl Alt Del 03-23-2009 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2603227)
If Galen survives, then his sacrifice is completely invalidated, just like the appearance of Sith in post-Episode 6 EU invalidated the sacrifice of Anakin Skywalker.

It is an intriguing idea, but I'd rather Vader and Sidious not look like any more of a pair of idiots than the EU has already made them.

I must agree with this.

Quote:

Galen never got a chance in the first place. The fact that Sidious jumps to his feet the second Galen's back is turned makes it clear that he was playing dead.
I think this is quite possible. I'm one of the guys who believe Palpy was just enacting when Mace had him cornered on his office, just as the final act to fully convert Anakin to the DS. It's pretty clear that Sidious is the theatrical kind of villain who enjoys playing the role of the mastermind who turns the tide of the battle when all seems lost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by On_Your_Six (Post 2603596)
I'm not sure why Galen has to remain the protagonist, or why the "sequel" should be set further along in the continuity. TFU is an ambiguous enough name to neither refer to a specific character, or timeline, may as well keep the horizons open with that in mind.

Exactly. There have been discussions about which already existing character to adopt on a possible sequel or a new one to be created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shem (Post 2604763)
Anyway, so Starkiller finds out about Luke Skywalker's heroics and the downfall of the Empire and they become acquainted with each other. The thing about using Starkiller again for a sequel game (where he's obviously going to be the good guy here even though he knows how to use the dark side of the Force sort of like Kyle Katarn) is to establish how is he going to be needed. There is no point in bringing him back unless he is needed. How is Luke Skywalker going to be connected in this? It would be smart to use his character and somehow work together in this plot as it will connect audiences well, especially if Luke is still learning more about his Force Powers. Perhaps Starkiller can train with him to help him become stronger, but make it a short part of the plot as you don't want to focus too much on that, but the upcoming problem you're going to have.

Having Luke and Starkiller the only Jedi in the galaxy at the time of the Emperor's death could something to build on.

It must be said that one of the few things I enjoyed completely on TFU was the plot, and bringing Galen from the dead like that reeks of bad storytelling. They'd have to come with a incredibly good excuse to make it acceptable, not only as to WHY he's back in actions but HOW did he escape death from the hands of Palpy.

Shem 03-23-2009 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del (Post 2604795)
It must be said that one of the few things I enjoyed completely on TFU was the plot, and bringing Galen from the dead like that reeks of bad storytelling. They'd have to come with a incredibly good excuse to make it acceptable, not only as to WHY he's back in actions but HOW did he escape death from the hands of Palpy.

I already explained that in the first post of this thread. ;)

DarthYuugi 03-25-2009 04:46 PM

The storys too cheesy lol ( No offence Shem)

Ztalker 03-25-2009 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shem (Post 2604763)
Well, let's continue on for fun.

Having Luke and Starkiller the only Jedi in the galaxy at the time of the Emperor's death could something to build on.

Hmmm. You could always set the two to meet around the movies.
May I suggest Episode 6? Battle of Endor?

EA material after this is mostly about Luke going on diplomatic missions rather then building a Jedi order (Truce at Bakura uptill Thrawn Trilogy all have him fighting in the frontline, with Dark Empire finally have him 'train' hist first student in 10 aby).
So you could have the two meet right after episode 6. Luke is still with his thoughts with the Rebellion, not ready to form a new order. And Galen is not ready to be with others again (trust issues, love, etc).
So why not have Galen 'work' in Luke's shadows? Write him in at Truce at Bakure. Write him in the Thrawn Trilogy. Only let him meet Luke at time periods that novels don't describe. Let him be part of the conquering of Coruscant...

I am hearing you though. It would only work up till Dark Empire, in which Luke re-establishes the Jedi order.

TKA-001 03-25-2009 05:35 PM

Quote:

Write him in the Thrawn Trilogy.
Galen fighting some sort of personal mini-conflict against Joruus C'baoth would be sort of neat. Have C'baoth set Galen up in a duel with an evil clone of himself. When the fight is over, Galen leaves, but the viewer doesn't know if the clone survived or the real one.

GeneralPloKoon 03-25-2009 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2606084)
Galen fighting some sort of personal mini-conflict against Joruus C'baoth would be sort of neat. Have C'baoth set Galen up in a duel with an evil clone of himself. When the fight is over, Galen leaves, but the viewer doesn't know if the clone survived or the real one.

An excellent idea and twist!

Zerimar Nyliram 03-25-2009 09:40 PM

No more clones, please. I'm all cloned out. Zahn handled it okay in the Thrawn trilogy, Lucas handled it fairly well in the prequels and the new animated series, and Tom Veich just butchered it in Dark Empire. It easily becomes quite cheesy if not done with extreme care, and it becomes cheesy if done too often, too.

I say, let's lay of this cloning business and come up with something at least pseudo-original.

TKA-001 03-25-2009 10:42 PM

Please note that I was working under the rules laid by the thread and the post I was responding to. I also agree that Dark Empire was hideous.

I also think that my own Thrawn Trilogy idea is somewhat lame as well; Not just for the idea of Galen surviving, but also the idea of shoehorning him into the Thrawn Trilogy. However, I felt that it would be best for me to be constructive in my post, so I ignored those factors.

Rev7 03-25-2009 11:23 PM

Really interesting, and good, ideas. It would be really cool if LA made TFU2; however, I don't think that it's gonna happen...

Dark Obi-Wan 03-25-2009 11:45 PM

Good thoughts Shem!

GeneralPloKoon 03-26-2009 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev7 (Post 2606284)
Really interesting, and good, ideas. It would be really cool if LA made TFU2; however, I don't think that it's gonna happen...

Why not? From LA's point of view, its their most successful game yet, a sequel would probably equal more $!

Ztalker 03-30-2009 06:09 AM

He doesn't have to face C'baoth and fight with a Clone.

Somehwere in the Thrawn trilogy, Wedge mentions the existence of C'baoth and he heard from Republic forces. Maybe Galen went on a scout mission and found C'baoth? The crazy Jedi doesn't have a lightsaber when he faces Luke, so Galen could be the reason he lost it.

Another idea:
Evade the Dark Empire storyline. Let Galen hunt after Carnor Jax or another Imperial/Sith figure. He can be outside-galaxy when 'difficult' storylines are in progress.
I'd love to see him fight at the Battle of Korriban though. Imagine fighting there, Jaden Korr running by, Luke and Kyle helping you out....

TKA-001 03-30-2009 08:23 AM

Quote:

He doesn't have to face C'baoth and fight with a Clone.

Somehwere in the Thrawn trilogy, Wedge mentions the existence of C'baoth and he heard from Republic forces. Maybe Galen went on a scout mission and found C'baoth? The crazy Jedi doesn't have a lightsaber when he faces Luke, so Galen could be the reason he lost it.
I always figured the reason C'baoth had no lightsaber was because he didn't need it.

Ztalker 03-30-2009 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2608330)
I always figured the reason C'baoth had no lightsaber was because he didn't need it.

True. He never used it.
However, the comic adaption does picture him with a lightsaber. But it isn't mentioned in the book he ever wears or uses one.
However, he DID kill the guardian of Wayland.

Quote:

The Guardian of Mount Tantiss was a Dark Jedi assigned by Emperor Palpatine to guard his storehouse at Mount Tantiss. (Wookieepedia and the book)
And C'baoth killed that Dark Jedi and became the guardian himself. It is logical to asume he took at least took the Dark Jedi's saber somewhere to prevent his new subordinates from ever using it against him, or to put it in his throne room as a reminder of his prowess.

Wedge Suron 03-31-2009 07:19 AM

How about Galen fight Luke Skywalker in a Dark Side ending of TFU2?

TKA-001 03-31-2009 09:25 AM

Quote:

And C'baoth killed that Dark Jedi and became the guardian himself. It is logical to asume he took at least took the Dark Jedi's saber somewhere to prevent his new subordinates from ever using it against him, or to put it in his throne room as a reminder of his prowess.
Maybe, but it's also implied that C'baoth is the only Guardian of Mount Tantiss that ever was there (reference: Dark Force Rising Sourcebook, I'm told).

The basic reasoning behind my own "Galen in Thrawn Trilogy" idea is because some people really like endings that are as ambiguous or open-ended as a game ending where the player doesn't know which Galen survived in the end.

Not that I think any such story should be canon, however, but it would still be interesting to see unfold.

Ztalker 03-31-2009 02:49 PM

Hmmm. It could always be labeled 'Infinities' and ignore all canon elements :) it won't be canon itself then though.

GeneralPloKoon 03-31-2009 06:20 PM

^You mean Tales, wasn't Infinities renamed to Tales? The Thrawn trilogy in visual game form would be awesome! But Impossible for a TFU sequel.

Ztalker 04-01-2009 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralPloKoon (Post 2609044)
^You mean Tales, wasn't Infinities renamed to Tales? The Thrawn trilogy in visual game form would be awesome! But Impossible for a TFU sequel.

Tales is non-canon too, correct. I meant this:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/st...nitiesesb1.jpg
Those 'what if' scenario's in this case, if Luke had died on Hoth...you can see the normal continuity takes a spin. to such a degree that Yoda is forced to take up his lightsaber once again...and Han his blaster...

TFU 2 could be a 'Force Unleashed Infinities' in which you can completely rewrite the excisting canon. You can have Galen everywhere. Even in the movies under this brand.

Zerimar Nyliram 04-01-2009 03:09 PM

Tales is not uncanonical as a whole. It is a collection of stories, most of which remain "ambiguously canonical" (in other words, they may have really happened, or they may not have) until either an Expanded Universe author references events that occurred in those stories, thus making them canon; or when Leland Chee randomly decides that he likes a story from Tales so much that he has decided to canonize it. And there are some stories contained in those volumes which are not canon whatsoever.

So Tales as a whole cannot be considered "canon" or "not canon." It is a collection of canonical, ambiguously canonical, and uncanonical works. The same holds true for the graphic novel Visionaries.

Infinities, on the other hand, are re-imaginings of the original Star Wars Trilogy which are not canon. They're just for fun.

GeneralPloKoon 04-01-2009 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2609245)

TFU 2 could be a 'Force Unleashed Infinities' in which you can completely rewrite the excisting canon. You can have Galen everywhere. Even in the movies under this brand.

That would be great! I think ultimate creativity and storyline can come from an un-conanoical game. I wish there was an uncanoical Star Wars game series, the possibilities would be unlimited!

Papa Smurf 04-04-2009 05:24 AM

My opinion is that Galen should head off to some remote location to make contact with his father for the extensive time period between his "death" and episodes 4-6 (Like Obi-Wan with Qui-Gon) Then I think Juno should discover he's still alive and head off to find him. (I think having a little trip to Corellia to salvage the remains/rebuild a certain holo-droid might be in order)


just a thought.


Side Note, his first name being Galen, his full name would be Galen Nion would it not? (Kento Nion being his father)


anywho...

-Papa Smurf

Zerimar Nyliram 04-04-2009 12:37 PM

His last name is Marek. His name was originally to be Jacob Nion, but they changed it because it sounded stupid. "Kento Nion" only appears as his father's name in the PS2/Wii version because they forgot to change it once the true Surname was announced.

Read the book. ;)

Rake 12-12-2009 10:48 PM

I have a feeling they'll try to come up with some "out there" reason to place him in a completely unknown world. Perhaps crawling to an escape pod, or shuttle or something of the sort, waking up on an entirely "new" Star Wars planet. It would leave them open to create their own lore without fear of interference from all the conflicting stories out there, and also present the grounds for many other sequels.


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