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-   -   Did Bastila leave the Order before TSL? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=200921)

DAWUSS 10-06-2009 11:22 PM

Did Bastila leave the Order before TSL?
 
Just a random thought, and I'll admit, has little solid backing.


Anyway, is there a chance that Bastila actually left the Jedi Order before the events of TSL? It would explain why she never went to the Conclave of Katarr and became snack time for Darth Nihilus, why Kreia (and the Exile) never added her to the gathering of Jedi (either the EH or DE, though she would have less purpose in the latter), among other things.

Why would she leave the Order? One possibility: Satele Shan. If this individual is a direct descendant, then Bastila had a child, and that could be a legit reason for leaving the Jedi Order.

Weak premise, I know.

cire992 10-07-2009 04:48 AM

I have to double-check this, but I'm pretty sure Luke's last name is Skywalker, not Amidala. So... yeah. If that chick from the TOR comics has anything to do with Bassie, then someone's got some real creative retconning to do.

As for your original question, I don't think it was ever mentioned what she was doing. Maybe she got stuck in traffic on her way to the meeting, or her alarm clock didn't go off. Heh, who knows.

Ogriv83 10-07-2009 05:02 AM

I like to think she was still in the order. Its very possible that she may be one of the lost 20 but I personally prefer to think that maybe she was on a mission at the time of the gathering, possibly looking for Revan.

Darth InSidious 10-07-2009 08:04 AM

Yes. She left on 18th July 4,956 BBY at 3:00 pm and worked in a chip shop on Coruscant for the next seventeen years, before dying by falling into a deep-fat frier.

adamqd 10-07-2009 08:56 AM

I heard it was a Diner and a Dishwasher but hey... Non Jedi and Dead, is Non Jedi and Dead

Miltiades 10-07-2009 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth InSidious (Post 2679446)
Yes. She left on 18th July 4,956 BBY at 3:00 pm and worked in a chip shop on Coruscant for the next seventeen years, before dying by falling into a deep-fat frier.

They use the Gregorian Calendar in those regions of the galaxy now?

Strange way to come to an end for a Jedi, but hey, if destiny calls, who are you to ignore the call of a fryer, right?

Darth Avlectus 10-07-2009 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAWUSS (Post 2679386)
Just a random thought, and I'll admit, has little solid backing.


Anyway, is there a chance that Bastila actually left the Jedi Order before the events of TSL? It would explain why she never went to the Conclave of Katarr and became snack time for Darth Nihilus, why Kreia (and the Exile) never added her to the gathering of Jedi (either the EH or DE, though she would have less purpose in the latter), among other things.

Why would she leave the Order? One possibility: Satele Shan. If this individual is a direct descendant, then Bastila had a child, and that could be a legit reason for leaving the Jedi Order.

Weak premise, I know.

Well, actually that has been my thoughts as well. That Satele Shan is descended not only from Bastila, but Revan as well if you catch my drift.

However, it seems Han Solo who likes my family's NFL nacho chips recipie gave me a similar response:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire992 (Post 2679424)
I have to double-check this, but I'm pretty sure Luke's last name is Skywalker, not Amidala. So... yeah. If that chick from the TOR comics has anything to do with Bassie, then someone's got some real creative retconning to do.

As for your original question, I don't think it was ever mentioned what she was doing. Maybe she got stuck in traffic on her way to the meeting, or her alarm clock didn't go off. Heh, who knows.

:devsmoke: Time will only tell, right? I'd say while I have my theory, well, that's just what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miltiades (Post 2679460)
They use the Gregorian Calendar in those regions of the galaxy now?

Strange way to come to an end for a Jedi, but hey, if destiny calls, who are you to ignore the call of a fryer, right?

ONE WITH THE FORCE!

Kreia001 10-07-2009 03:20 PM

Yes, i am sure your theory is right, cause look what wookiepedia says:

Satele Shan has been confirmed as a descendant of a main character from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. Due to her surname, many fans believe that she is the descendant of Bastila Shan. It is also stated that she may be able to use battle meditation, Bastila's most distinctive ability.

It is not currently known whether Shan will play a role in the upcoming video game Star Wars: The Old Republic, because in a press release BioWare revealed that the story in the comic Star Wars: The Old Republic, Threat of Peace Act 1: Treaty of Coruscant will span the three decades between the Treaty of Coruscant and the start of the game. This possibly places Satele at an advanced age when the game begins.

jrrtoken 10-07-2009 03:53 PM

I suppose that none of you have considered the possibility that Satele is descendants from one of Bastila's, like cousins, or something.

OR MAYBE IT IS REVAN'S GRANDCHILD. >_>

Darth Avlectus 10-07-2009 05:13 PM

Actually I have considered it could be another Shan family member. In any case:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire992 (Post 2679424)
If that chick from the TOR comics has anything to do with Bassie, then someone's got some real creative retconning to do.


More like Revan's great great great grandchild at least. >_<

cire992 10-07-2009 06:05 PM

^ You're the first person who has ever called me a nacho loving Han Solo in my life. You should get a ribbon for that or something. :p

Well, now we know how Star Wars characters get their last names when their dad doesn't have one, he he. Go Revan! (At least if GTA's right).
Still, 3 centuries later with her ancentor's mother's maiden name? Who writes this crap?

logan23 10-07-2009 06:22 PM

Hey,


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it will be the decedent of Bastila. As for it being the child decedent of Bastila and Reven they might leave us in the dark and let our imagination wonder.

Bastila being alive could be either she left the Order and was not considered a threat by the Sith but thats hard to believe since she will be well known for her battle meditation abilities. Active Jedi or not she would be a threat to the Sith. I believe she was suppose to die on Katarr but for some reason she never made it or ended up involved in another issue. I would think that Bastila's ability would make her a target to the Sith and so she would either have to fake her death or the Sith believed she died on Katarr.

I wonder since we saw Bastila on Telos IV which is a wounded planet....was Bastila there the whole time? Where was she hiding? or was it with Carth's flag ship she was hiding on?

So many questions...........

Logan

Miltiades 10-07-2009 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity (Post 2679518)
ONE WITH THE FORCE!

One with the Fries is more accurate.

Satele Shan has already been confirmed as a descendant of one of the main characters of KotOR, so it doesn't leave much choice for who it is. So you can scratch Zaalbar, Mission and Canderous off that list. She's obviously a descendant of Bastila, whether Revan's involved is something else. The Shan name poses some difficulty, yeah, though perhaps the name survived because of an incestuous affair between Bastila and one of her male family members. Now that'd be a reason why she isn't in the Order anymore.

cire992 10-07-2009 06:41 PM

Yeah... maybe a more kid-friendly retcon would be more apropriate, here... I'm stickin' with my theory: she got sweet on some dude (maybe Revan) who didn't have a last name, and for whatever reason in a galaxy far, far away that means the kid takes the mother's name. It's boring, it makes no sense and when the writers put it in print it'll be spectacularly underwhelming. It would fit perfectly into recent Star Wars canon.

Deadshot#1 10-07-2009 06:51 PM

Yah what he said. I guess. ;)

DAWUSS 10-07-2009 07:11 PM

Maybe Revan was too big a target, and so the child took on the mother's last name.


From an OOU perspective, the only last name associated with Revan was one you gave him, which could have been anything. As of right now anyway.

cire992 10-07-2009 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAWUSS (Post 2679580)
Maybe Revan was too big a target, and so the child took on the mother's last name.

What do you mean?

Ogriv83 10-08-2009 04:53 AM

I think he means that Revan would obviously go down in history as a major name that caused alot of suffering during the jedi civil war. That would be one hell of a name to carry on and im sure would be held against you.

Parmenides 10-08-2009 10:10 AM

Would they be able to keep father's identity secret?

Miltiades 10-08-2009 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogriv83 (Post 2679661)
I think he means that Revan would obviously go down in history as a major name that caused alot of suffering during the jedi civil war. That would be one hell of a name to carry on and im sure would be held against you.

I think he meant that if Revan was a target (of the True SIth or some other enemy), then it'd be safe to name not give his child his own last name, but use Bastila's. Doesn't seem likely, though, since Bastila herself would have been a target if Revan was one, so naming the child Shan wouldn't be very wise.

@cire: I was only kidding, of course. :)

cire992 10-08-2009 04:06 PM

^ They must just be giving her the 'Shan' name for story-telling purposes. The most obvious way to indicate a relation, even if it doesn't make sense. They don't really have to disclose Bastila's story either now, when you think about it.

HdVaderII 10-08-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire992 (Post 2679727)
^ They must just be giving her the 'Shan' name for story-telling purposes. The most obvious way to indicate a relation, even if it doesn't make sense.

Yeah. I agree.
Revan didn't have a last name anyways, so why not give the kid the 'Shan' name.

Miltiades 10-08-2009 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HdVaderII (Post 2679729)
Yeah. I agree.
Revan didn't have a last name anyways, so why not give the kid the 'Shan' name.

It's not even sure that Revan was his real name. They called him the Revanchist Leader, later the Revanchist, and eventually that shortened to Revan. What a coincidence it'd be if that was his name in the first place.

Czerka-agent 10-08-2009 11:27 PM

Ok. Bare with me.
I think Kreia is Bastala.
1. "I was the last to train Revan." she says to the Exile. Didn't bastila train Revan last?
2. That would xplain why she wasn't on the list of jedi.
3. (far fetched) that may be why she couldn't walk on Korriban. That ( besides t3's little message) is the only time shes mentioned! The only time she's not around.
4. She could look old from evil. Like palpatine.
Just thought id point that out.

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 10-09-2009 02:10 AM

Quote:

Ok. Bare with me.
I think Kreia is Bastala.
I shall endeavour save you to some extent from the imminent pwnage heading your way by responding in a civilized manner:

Quote:

1. Didn't bastila train Revan last?
No. I doubt Bastila ever trained Revan at all. Even if she did, Revan, after regaining all his memories, went to Kreia at Malachor V just before he disappeared into the unknown regions.
Quote:

2. That would xplain why she wasn't on the list of jedi.
Maybe she was really good at hiding? Another possible reason could be that the Jedi that the Exile looked for in TSL were all masters on the council that banished her. Bastila was not on the council, let alone a Jedi Master.
Quote:

(far fetched) that may be why she couldn't walk on Korriban. That ( besides t3's little message) is the only time shes mentioned! The only time she's not around.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying...
Bastila couldn't go on Korriban in K1 because she wouldve been immediately recognized by the sith.
Kreia couldn't go on Korriban in K2 because she claimed that it was hard to "center herself" there. (Personally, i think it had something to do with the fact that she was actually a Dark Lord. Perhaps Korriban's dark energies may have messed around with her alignment cloaking abilities)
Quote:

4. She could look old from evil. Like palpatine.
Their faces are completely different. The dark side messes with your skin, your complexion, changes the color of your eyes, etc. As Far As I Know, it doesn't change people's bone structure.

Furthermore:
Judging by the wording you've put under "Current Game", i take it you've finished playing k2 at least once. So i ask you:

Revan is older than Bastila, and was Kreia's (in your case, Bastila's) padawan. How can that be? (A kid, being trained by a younger kid...? )

If Bastila is Kreia, how can she be on Telos and Malachor at the same time?


Just a question: You wouldn't happen to be a youtuber, would you? (have a youtube account). If you are, are you by any chance familiar with JediShemL's KotOR videos?

Oh, and welcome to LF. :)

Giant Graffiti 10-09-2009 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czerka-agent (Post 2679838)
That ( besides t3's little message) is the only time shes mentioned! The only time she's not around.

...

Did you play the game saying that Revan was male lightside?

logan23 10-09-2009 01:31 PM

I can say that Kreia is not bastila because as a writter you dont want to step on other company's characters. Odision will make thier own characters and only give cameos to kotor1 characters.

Ex. the mask of Nihilus was originally going to be made out of Revan's skull but the removed that idea since the players would be angry that you tossed away such an important and closely deared character to the players.

You will find that in TOR there is not a lot of detail on what happen to the Exile since Bioware wants to give room if lucas arts ever wanted to do a game between kotor2 and TOR. The game could be a rpg or even a game like jedi knight based in the old republic.

On topic Bastila went into hiding either before or after katarr.

Logan

Czerka-agent 10-09-2009 04:33 PM

Ok. I just thought it was an odd thought id share, and see how evryone would take it.
On topic: I think Bastala followed Revan until he said she couldnt. She probaly a stripper for Vogga the hutt, or an angry gizak ate her head.
And i am a youtuber, i just use my psp more for this.

Parmenides 10-11-2009 01:29 AM

Bastila is the exile! At least I'm trying that out in this playthrough of TSL. Actually it works pretty well. I'm not serious about Star Wars cannon here, but hey, it's fun to play TSL as her. There are a few problems I run into but most can be explained away. Of course that Bastila/Exile would have to lose connection to the force twice. Here's a scenario:

1. Bastila as the exile had powerful force connections to influence people. Battle meditation was just one manifestation of that gift.
2. Bastila was the first jedi reprogramming experiment (before Revan). After being expelled, she regained power, so out of fear the council decided to erase her memory and use her gifts for narrow purposes... battle meditation.
3. Jedi council used Bastila. They narrowly trained her force connections gift to only use battle meditation (which she learned so "surprisingly fast").
4. Bastila actually lost connection the force a second time, when on board the star forge. Everyone else was consumed by the dark powers after Revan left. but her ability to detach herself from the force allowed herself to survive. (kotor1 dark side ending)
5. Revan had a special interest in the exile, but wouldn't kill her when she left the war. Revan watch Bastila for a very long time. Perhaps some sort of force bond was already made.
6. Regardless, when it was Revan's turn to be captured, Bastila had no problem force bonding with Revan to get the memories. I ask, why did a padawon get the responsibility to force bond with Revan for the memory wipe? If the council could decide they would have picked someone else more strong and firmly planted in the light side.

Thoughts? I'm not saying that she really is the exile... but hey, it could work, at least almost.

There are not too many ingame instances where people would react differently if it was Bastila, and not just some non-Bastila exile. The Jedi council was full of deception, so they would act the same. HK-47 was reprogrammed to forget her. But Mandalore should have remembered her. That would take a little possible suspension of logic. (but not impossible to explain away). I forget some of the other problems at the moment.

Any other inconsistencies we could explain away?

jonathan7 10-11-2009 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parmenides (Post 2680249)
Thoughts? I'm not saying that she really is the exile... but hey, it could work, at least almost.

The game is yours to play as you wish, :) however if your going to post such things on boards, be prepared for it to be ripped to shreds;

No it can't work, if you want to play as the Exile as Bastila that is your own prerogative, but not only are you ignoring cannon you are ignoring a couple of big fat massive stinking facts from in both games. The Exile was Exiled before the Jedi Civil War - i.e. he had been wandering in Exile while Bastila, Revan et al where cruising around fighting Malak. Bastila is also too young to be the Exile, and finally Bastila didn't go to war to fight in the Mandalorian Wars - where as the Exile did. So year apart from those two massive galaxy sized inconsistencies it works :xp:

Parmenides 10-11-2009 04:07 PM

Rip away! :) I know it's not proper lore. But still, I will have fun resolving the problems. Maybe I'll surprise myself and explain away everything. :P

Bear in mind, I'm going with the non-canonical assumption that Revan kept the star forge. Though I suppose a light side Revan ending could fit too. At least a light side female (since you actually see Bastila for a light side male Revan in TSL)

Humor me my idea (I'd rather you rip it than ignore it, should I start a new thread?):

About the exile being exiled before the Jedi Civil War..... The exile started to once again regain her powers shortly thereafter. Her journey into the outer worlds was not as long as we had thought. The council noticed this, and took her back in. They wiped her mind, perhaps out of fear or perhaps out of mercy: they didn't want her to suffer the pain of her memories at Malachor. Most likely both. Her suppressed memory kept the echos from emanating from her.

As for Bastila being young... do we have solid facts about her age? Or was she led to believe otherwise?

Again, The exile, fought in the Mandalorian Wars, but as Bastila her mind was wiped by the jedi council out of fear or maybe mercy. The exile was then known as Bastila during the Jedi civil war. She was trained very narrowly so as to preserve her to the jedi code. Her strong ability to connect to others through the force allowed her to master battle meditation at a very quick rate. The council tried to stunt the other gifts from manifesting. Notice that her power increased extremely rapidly in the weeks she was captured by Malak. It's almost like she regained her powers at the rate that Revan regain his/her power after being mind wiped by the jedi council. So, the exile would then have lost her powers a second time. First at Malachor V, then at the star forge when she kept herself from being consumed by the overwhelming dark side energies of the star forge. She did this by disconnecting from the force once again.

I'll just re-iterate what I said before. Why should the padawon Bastila force bond with Revan to touch Revan's memories? If I were a Master Vrook, there is no way I'd ever let Bastila be the one chosen to bond with Revan. It's too ricky. I'd pick someone else. This is all true unless the council didn't have a choice, in which case Bastila's bond happened naturally... a bond that happens naturally if she were indeed the exile that was close to Revan during the Mandalorian wars.

logan23 10-11-2009 06:09 PM

Hey,

I hate to break it to you but your whole theory is based on that Bastila had her mind wiped out by the Jedi Masters ,....which did not happen.

There are way to many dialogue in kotor2 that contradicts your idea.

I give you points for being creative.

Logan

cire992 10-11-2009 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parmenides (Post 2680393)
Bear in mind, I'm going with the non-canonical assumption that Revan kept the star forge. Though I suppose a light side Revan ending could fit too. At least a light side female (since you actually see Bastila for a light side male Revan in TSL)

Light Side Male Revan is canon. You don't play as Bastila or anyone who looks remotely like her in TSL. Bastila sided with the Council in the Mandalorian Wars. You're grasping at air, but I'm glad people still have imagination these days.

Parmenides 10-11-2009 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan23 (Post 2680421)
Hey,

I hate to break it to you but your whole theory is based on that Bastila had her mind wiped out by the Jedi Masters ,....which did not happen.
Logan

Of course my theory is based upon that premise! And of course it didn't happen in cannon! I'm not interpreting cannon. I'm just coming up with a backstory that can be made to work, although nothing in Cannon said it is impossible, if anyone wanted a Bastila TSL playthrough. Infact, it can be made to work really well.

The biggest issue is that Cannon ends KOTOR1 with a light side male Revan. Obviously that would have problems when Carth is talking to Bastila. But if Revan goes darkside, then the theory(more like a chosen scenario) can fit surprisingly well.

As for contradicting dialogues, there really isn't much. The dialogue with Mandalore is sort of awkward. And there are a few statements here and there that are awkward. It takes a little bit of subjective interpretation of statements, but it's not that bad. Sometimes you have to fill in the blanks as to why certain things weren't mentioned if the exile were indeed Bastila. I can't recall any conversations horrible to the "theory" though.

I know it's somewhat silly.... like saying that Palpatine in Star Wars movies is just the 100th clone of some ancient Sith Lord. All I'm saying is that you can play through TSL as Bastila with little to none suspension of logic.

cire992 10-11-2009 07:13 PM

^ Hey I like your style, do what's rocks absolutely.

Parmenides 10-11-2009 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire992 (Post 2680435)
Light Side Male Revan is canon. You don't play as Bastila or anyone who looks remotely like her in TSL. Bastila sided with the Council in the Mandalorian Wars. You're grasping at air, but I'm glad people still have imagination these days.

Mods of course can make you look like her. :)

Perhaps bastila and others were told she was against the Mandalorian Wars? Revan thought he was a republic soldier after all and came from that planet, forget the name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire992 (Post 2680435)
You're grasping at air

I'm not coming up with the most accurate story or the best explanation. I'm coming up with something that COULD work for fun.


And yes, Revan was light side male, yadda yadda. But he isn't when I play through talking to Atton.

cire992 10-11-2009 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parmenides (Post 2680440)
But he isn't when I play through talking to Atton.

If you can't explain the other ways to play through, then how could your theory work?

Parmenides 10-11-2009 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cire992 (Post 2680447)
If you can't explain the other ways to play through, then how could your theory work?

Easy, it works well for dark side Revan. :thmbup1:

Maybe you can call it a half baked story :^: 1/2 (2/4 possibilites) work well. Maybe 3/4 with more stretching of the imagination.


Who needs a light side male Revan anyways, the game itself breaks cannon the moment you don't chose a light side male Revan when speaking to Atton.

Ogriv83 10-12-2009 07:06 AM

Good Idea Parmenidas.

It does work well for dark Revan. Admittidly its not flawless but its a good bit of creativity and a fun and interesting way of playing through.

Parmenides 10-12-2009 11:29 AM

Yeah, since the game itself doesn't always follow cannon, I like to think that Revan's gender and outcome as 'subcannon.' You are already playing noncannon if you pick a female in Kotor1, much less if you take the dark path.

Saying that Malak never betrayed Revan is a mockery of the story. But saying that Revan was a female is perfectly fine ingame. The game was made for that. I also would propose that saying Revan was Dark side and Bastila was exile is acceptable too, though admittedly a stretch of the imagination. Of course if you hated Bastila from the beginning, I suppose it would seem like a mockery still yet.


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