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Ghost 06-15-2010 12:09 AM

Revan and Malak revealed
 
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/ti...jedi-civil-war

Your thoughts?

Seikan 06-15-2010 08:12 AM

Well... first.. I DON'T LIKE their Revan design xD
And i prefer the Kreia's version of the story... it seems that now they change what they have introduced before just to the benefit of their new game.

But i thinks it would be far a more original story, the Jedi that embraced the dark side for a good cause, who become the dark lord of the siths, to have the strength to protect the republic, instead of the classic "oh i'm a fallen jedi, I will conquer the galaxy on my master's will... oh noh! I'M DA LORD!!! the galaxy will be MINE!! mouhahahha" it's just too classic, all the siths lords are the same:
I betray my master, I try to kill the jedi and conquer the galaxy, and my apprentice kill me, try to kill the jedi and conquer the galaxy, and his apprentice kill him, try to kill the jedi and conquer the galaxy, and his apprentice kill him and..... i think you've got my point xD

And revan was in my opinion on the the few sith lords that were different, he was original... dude à guy who become the great bigg boss of the bad asses, just to save the galaxy was a premiere, and they blown away that version introduced in TSL to make him a sith lord wannabe... and redeemed over all...

Ztalker 06-15-2010 10:28 AM

Revan turned mainstream...reverse grip...

Why oh why....

Son of Skywalker15 06-15-2010 10:44 AM

Well, first thing is first: Revan's head design matches one found in the original Knights of the Old Republic. This gives players the chance, if they so choose, to play as the "canon" Revan.


Quote:

And i prefer the Kreia's version of the story
Nothing contradicts it, though. Revan did go into the Unknown Regions to hunt down the enemy-- he just didn't know what he would find. He also did come back to prepare the Republic for invasion, which was the underlying hint since the first game. It works pretty well, actually. His fall started on Malachor V and ended on Dromund Kaas and his intentions are still his own.

Quote:

Revan turned mainstream...reverse grip...
They both surprised and annoyed me a bit; Revan has always been seen using the regular grip. I don't want to try and make a story for it-- I'll just accept it as it was, for now.

Seikan 06-15-2010 02:14 PM

Quote:

Nothing contradicts it, though. Revan did go into the Unknown Regions to hunt down the enemy-- he just didn't know what he would find. He also did come back to prepare the Republic for invasion, which was the underlying hint since the first game. It works pretty well, actually. His fall started on Malachor V and ended on Dromund Kaas and his intentions are still his own.
Well it say Revan have completely fall into the dark side, and has gone to the republic to conquer it for his masters, but in the way he change his mind and decide to conquer the republic for himself, it don't say at all that Revan has plans to protect the republic before his redemption, so the "Revan was preparing the republic from an ever greater evil", and the "are you sure revan ever fall into the dark side?", and the stuff that revan has sacrificed himself by becoming the sith lord just to protect the republic. So, in what they say now, he's just a sith wannabe, that wanted to keep the republic strong to protect his own sith empire...

Ghost 06-15-2010 05:57 PM

I agree with you Seikan, I liked TSL's version much better. LA has no originality anymore.

Revan I believed as the master of pwnage, but now they have ruined it with adding the classic evil sith ****. Amazing.

TKA-001 06-15-2010 06:23 PM

It was obvious from the very beginning. It's just that because Revan is the player character of the first game, nobody likes to see him as the amoral Sith Lord he was, because that ruins the self-insert experience.

Besides, it doesn't contradict Kreia's claim that Revan did it to save the galaxy from the "true" Sith. Like any tyrant, Revan no doubt believed that he would be a stronger and more benevolent ruler whose reign would save many lives.

The only new thing from this video is that now we know Revan's face and his lightsaber color post-memory damage.

Son of Skywalker15 06-15-2010 08:55 PM

Quote:

Well it say Revan have completely fall into the dark side
I believe that it says: "But no one knew how fall Revan had already fallen" as it was leaving the Mandalorian Wars. That, to me, hints at the fact that what we already know from Kreia & the Kotor comic is true: Revan found Malachor V and its Trayus Academy before the end of the war and him meeting with the Sith Emperor sealed the deal.

It also makes it very clear that Revan wanted to be his own man and had his own ambitions. He is already unique in the fact that he wanted to combine both the teachings of the Jedi and Sith to create something that just worked. His master-mind plan of getting the Republic ready for the "True Sith" still works-- he knew what to expect and he needed things ready.

Darth Avlectus 06-15-2010 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2731757)
Revan turned mainstream...reverse grip...

Why oh why....

Force Unleashed. Blame Hayden Blackmann. And whoever it was that made that picture--and whatever influences (if any) played part in that.

Ugh...shien reverse grip variation of form V shien.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Skywalker15 (Post 2731760)
Well, first thing is first: Revan's head design matches one found in the original Knights of the Old Republic.

I know which head, but which "design" image are you referring to? Jog my memory, as I can't recall any specific official image to this effect ATM.

Quote:

This gives players the chance, if they so choose, to play as the "canon" Revan.
I think it was artist's preference--or an influence thereof. Likely the reason being it is the most similar head to Ep. 3 Anakin. :¬:


Quote:

Nothing contradicts it, though. Revan did go into the Unknown Regions to hunt down the enemy-- he just didn't know what he would find. He also did come back to prepare the Republic for invasion, which was the underlying hint since the first game. It works pretty well, actually. His fall started on Malachor V and ended on Dromund Kaas and his intentions are still his own.
I think the team was careful to not contradict it. I think most of us can live with that, and TSL just simply being left forgotten.

Quote:

They both surprised and annoyed me a bit; Revan has always been seen using the regular grip. I don't want to try and make a story for it-- I'll just accept it as it was, for now.
Quoted for truth and emphasis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seikan (Post 2731790)
Well it say Revan have completely fall into the dark side, and has gone to the republic to conquer it for his masters, but in the way he change his mind and decide to conquer the republic for himself, it don't say at all that Revan has plans to protect the republic before his redemption, so the "Revan was preparing the republic from an ever greater evil", and the "are you sure revan ever fall into the dark side?", and the stuff that revan has sacrificed himself by becoming the sith lord just to protect the republic. So, in what they say now, he's just a sith wannabe, that wanted to keep the republic strong to protect his own sith empire...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2731849)
It was obvious from the very beginning. It's just that because Revan is the player character of the first game, nobody likes to see him as the amoral Sith Lord he was, because that ruins the self-insert experience.

Besides, it doesn't contradict Kreia's claim that Revan did it to save the galaxy from the "true" Sith. Like any tyrant, Revan no doubt believed that he would be a stronger and more benevolent ruler whose reign would save many lives.

I pretty much agree that he probably would have thought he could do a better job as sith almighty on the dark side. Not so much saving the galaxy but rather keeping it for himself. It's the dark side afterall. Kreia's speculation may have had an optimistic slant because Revan "didn't know himself".

Quote:

The only new thing from this video is that now we know Revan's face and his lightsaber color post-memory damage.
Guess the devil is in the details. :giveup:

Son of Skywalker15 06-15-2010 09:21 PM

Quote:

I know which head, but which "design" image are you referring to? Jog my memory, as I can't recall any specific official image to this effect ATM.
The one I thought of, and can see the closest resemblance to the third throw, fourth down here: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...cesofrevan.jpg

Quote:

I think it was artist's preference--or an influence thereof. Likely the reason being it is the most similar head to Ep. 3 Anakin. ::
Indeed, but now I feel like the "real" Revan when I use it. :)

Seikan 06-16-2010 07:57 AM

I believe that it says: "But no one knew how fall Revan had already fallen" as it was leaving the Mandalorian Wars. That, to me, hints at the fact that what we already know from Kreia & the Kotor comic is true: Revan found Malachor V and its Trayus Academy before the end of the war and him meeting with the Sith Emperor sealed the deal.

Well it says "the fall of Revan and Malak to the dark side was complete", so they're saying Revan have completely fall into the dark side, and kriea say he never fall, and that he sacrifice himself, for the galaxy safety.
And it's not because of bad revan or good revan, that i don't like it, for example, I love Darth Bane, or the ancient Siths, but Revan was just something more... Like Kreia said, his actions has always been his own, not influenced by the dark side, and here, they tell us he have completely fall into the dark side...

Ans i don't see the Revan's face any where...

Wookiee Rrudolf 06-16-2010 08:22 AM

Isn't this whole movie just an account given by some 'Jedi dude' who had his own opinion about Revan and what happened, just like Kreia had her own? It's not like 'I know everything and you have to listen to my words' ;) It's not like Revan himself is telling about his motives. It happens in 'Darth Bane: Path of Destruction'. Then you know that Revan fall to the Dark Side completely. (hint: Revan's holocron)

Ztalker 06-16-2010 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookiee Rrudolf (Post 2732027)
Isn't this whole movie just an account given by some 'Jedi dude' who had his own opinion about Revan and what happened, just like Kreia had her own? It's not like 'I know everything and you have to listen to my words' ;) It's not like Revan himself is telling about his motives. It happens in 'Darth Bane: Path of Destruction'. Then you know that Revan fall to the Dark Side completely. (hint: Revan's holocron)

No...you see...there are degrees of canon.
We knew VERY little about Revan, what he did before Kotor 1 and after Kotor 2, to be exact.

Degrees of canon:

G-Canon is what George Lucas DIRECTLY influenced or said. That Anakin IS the chosen one, for example.
T-canon,[2] or Television Canon is the Clone Wars series...very sad...Ahsoka is there to stay...so is the Hutt-baby. BAH.
C-canon is Continuity Canon games, comics, books, etc.

You see, because this is PART of SWTOR, it is automatically C-canon. Only if a television series, remark from George Lucas or the game itself proves it's false (equal or higher canon), it's there to stay. And since it's a newer source then the Darth Bane book, it's the new accepted fate of Revan.

You see why many people hate the Clone Wars series now? It overwrites every comic, game, book about the Mandalorians, Clones, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin...bah.

What you see in the clip is the 'New Truth' so to say.

Seikan 06-16-2010 01:15 PM

Whatever happens I keep the Kreia's version, the new one is a ***** >.<

And I think, you people are mistaken, there sin't the revan's face anywhere..

Wookiee Rrudolf 06-16-2010 06:08 PM

@Ztalker
I knew about the degrees of canon. What I didn't know is that newer source replaces the older ones. That's completely insane and lacks logic in my point of view... but it clarifies a lot.

Still I don't have to care about canon or not if different pieces fit with together and the story makes sense for me :) And even if the 'Jedi dude's' story it new canon from now on, I still think it isn't some kind of revealed truth about Revan but only his point of view and his approach to Revan's fall.

Ghost 06-16-2010 06:43 PM

Quote:

Whatever happens I keep the Kreia's version
This.

Ztalker 06-17-2010 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wookiee Rrudolf (Post 2732169)
@Ztalker
I knew about the degrees of canon. What I didn't know is that newer source replaces the older ones. That's completely insane and lacks logic in my point of view... but it clarifies a lot.

Still I don't have to care about canon or not if different pieces fit with together and the story makes sense for me :) And even if the 'Jedi dude's' story it new canon from now on, I still think it isn't some kind of revealed truth about Revan but only his point of view and his approach to Revan's fall.

I totally agree, for myself those pictures are 'wrong ones' that the in-universe master Dural found. :) It's not like I 'hate' the game now, I just feel they shouldn't have touched it.
Because, now that they canonised unknown stuff, it's here to stay. And that's...uncool.

I once said somewhere that I'd love to see some Force-induced flash-back on an unknown world where a masked Revan and hooded exile destroy some big academy and it's leaders, setting back the Sith a few hundred years and eventually falling in battle against the Sith Emperor or something.
You know, rebel against their former master, do something epic.
Revan's epicness is quit gone now...

DarthJacen 06-19-2010 03:03 AM

They never, actually, show Revan's face. He's always looking away, behind a mask, or concealed by the hood of his cloak.

Seikan 06-19-2010 05:34 AM

I think, they think, that the jedi with a double lightsaber in the begining, is Revan, but he's not. °°Just a random jedi, fighting an other random jedi during the jedi civil war.

DarthJacen 06-19-2010 05:56 PM

Correct the artist uses a few "camera" tricks to keep us from ever seeing Revan's face.

Darth Avlectus 06-20-2010 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2732346)
I totally agree, for myself those pictures are 'wrong ones' that the in-universe master Dural found. :) It's not like I 'hate' the game now, I just feel they shouldn't have touched it.
Because, now that they canonised unknown stuff, it's here to stay. And that's...uncool.

Hey, it's all from a 'certain point of view' after the fact. But in essence I agree.

While I like the Jedi Guardian class, anyone can use any color lightsaber even if blue happens to be the most common. :: Also can use any variant thereof. If it were my way it'd be 2 lightsabers, HOTG bronze/red-orange and MOTF cyan/turquoise. :giveup:

You can just pick and choose what you want and say "to hell with the rest", no biggie. :D

Quote:

I once said somewhere that I'd love to see some Force-induced flash-back on an unknown world where a masked Revan and hooded exile destroy some big academy and it's leaders, setting back the Sith a few hundred years and eventually falling in battle against the Sith Emperor or something.
You know, rebel against their former master, do something epic.
Revan's epicness is quit gone now...
Well, I do think we'll find out but I'm not holding my breath on whatever 'it' is as being any huge 'epic' thing. I just hope they ended Revan with dignity. As to the Exile, same thing but I'm counting on it largely being ignored and the Exile being lost in obscurity. :dozey: LA (to my guess) had initially intended there to be some implied future clash between revan and exile from the vision in Kressh's tomb. That and how mandalore says certain things if you have enough influence with him in TSL about the two of them not being singular jedi. However those hints themselves would be giving too much away. So LA will probably say either it was a glimpse into the past, or "only a possibility" glimpse into the future.

Still, those sith warrors do at least make me curious, now.

Son of Skywalker15 06-20-2010 09:26 PM

Quote:

They never, actually, show Revan's face. He's always looking away, behind a mask, or concealed by the hood of his cloak.
This is true. However, being that it is Bioware who created that face with long brown hair, in that exact same style, for their game, I think it's pretty safe to assume that it's what the artist had in mind while doing it-- to make it canon or not. You can clearly see long brown hair in the style of the template used in Kotor, even without the face. Here is a nice shot of his head from behind.

I think fans misinterpret what being "canon" does to something-- it simply makes it what the galaxy far, far away sees it as; if you don't want to do it that way, by all means, don't. However, if it's ever referenced again, which is what fans obviously want, they need a solid stance to take; gender, side, looks, etc.

It's for editorial necessity, not to detract from your experience at all. Developers, writers, and the like want fans to have that immersion when they play the game. They just also must take into consideration that characters may be explored further. Case in point: Jaden Korr.

DarthJacen 06-21-2010 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Son of Skywalker15 (Post 2733370)
This is true. However, being that it is Bioware who created that face with long brown hair, in that exact same style, for their game, I think it's pretty safe to assume that it's what the artist had in mind while doing it-- to make it canon or not. You can clearly see long brown hair in the style of the template used in Kotor, even without the face. Here is a nice shot of his head from behind.

I think fans misinterpret what being "canon" does to something-- it simply makes it what the galaxy far, far away sees it as; if you don't want to do it that way, by all means, don't. However, if it's ever referenced again, which is what fans obviously want, they need a solid stance to take; gender, side, looks, etc.

It's for editorial necessity, not to detract from your experience at all. Developers, writers, and the like want fans to have that immersion when they play the game. They just also must take into consideration that characters may be explored further. Case in point: Jaden Korr.

Yep, sorry people, but you can't have two versions of the same story if you are going to add it to the overall canon known as the Expanded Universe.

S_W_LeGenD 06-21-2010 05:14 AM

Revan needs a proper canonical background and image, regardless of how people play him in KoTOR. It will be a progress.

This holocron is one of such steps in the right direction. I want Revan's story to be completed and his feats covered in detail.

Blix 06-26-2010 10:11 PM

The star forge map looks like there were more planets aligned with the star forge than what we saw in K1.

Dr. Makaveli 06-26-2010 10:56 PM

It could be also that they are trying to pitch their game to a larger audience, which a good number have likely not played TSL. Like just general WOW/MMO fans or gamers... it could possibly confuse outsiders, the more in depth story. Or perhaps I'm naive. :P

adamqd 06-27-2010 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Makaveli (Post 2734907)
It could be also that they are trying to pitch their game to a larger audience, which a good number have likely not played TSL. Like just general WOW/MMO fans or gamers... it could possibly confuse outsiders, the more in depth story. Or perhaps I'm naive. :P

This has been my concern since day one, yea the graphics are 1999, the sabers are fat and everyone looks like a Cro-Magnon, but I can live with that for the sake of Cheapskate and fouryearold's PC setup. However, I really didn't want this dumbed down and sand-boxed just to draw the MMO posse... But, at the end of the day they talk a good fight and we'll have to wait and see, because to be honest 90% of what we have been told or seen is sub-contracted Digital animation and comics. Proofs in the Pudding.

Fallen Guardian 08-24-2010 11:35 PM

I like how Kreia describes it.

PoiuyWired 09-14-2010 12:42 PM

Remember one thing, anthing you hear is from some Jedi Historian. So the truth on how Revan is thinking at the time remains not totally known. My guess is that he is using the Sith Emperor from day one, to build his own vision of a Republic (which is basically Revan's Empire).

And note that the timeline kinda totally ignores the Exile? Maybe everyone thinks that the canon of of having that stupid Mical poodoo on the Ebon Hawk is a bad idea, Briana ftw. (Yes, I don't mind Exile being female, but Mical I CANNOT stand)

TKA-001 09-14-2010 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoiuyWired (Post 2749253)
So the truth on how Revan is thinking at the time remains not totally known. My guess is that he is using the Sith Emperor from day one, to build his own vision of a Republic (which is basically Revan's Empire).

Uh-huh. So Revan, some Jedi Knight who literally stumbles across the Sith Empire, is the one who is using them to further his own goals when they're the ones who turned him into a Sith and sent him back to kill the Republic. Yeah, I don't frigging think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2732346)
I totally agree, for myself those pictures are 'wrong ones' that the in-universe master Dural found. :) It's not like I 'hate' the game now, I just feel they shouldn't have touched it.
Because, now that they canonised unknown stuff, it's here to stay. And that's...uncool. .

This line of thinking is something I've seen a lot of in this fanbase, and I can't for the life of me make sense of it. Why does a group that doesn't care about what's in the canon of even the two games (let alone the rest of the EU) care what "changes" are being made in newer stories?

Ztalker 09-16-2010 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2749256)
Uh-huh. So Revan, some Jedi Knight who literally stumbles across the Sith Empire, is the one who is using them to further his own goals when they're the ones who turned him into a Sith and sent him back to kill the Republic. Yeah, I don't frigging think so.


This line of thinking is something I've seen a lot of in this fanbase, and I can't for the life of me make sense of it. Why does a group that doesn't care about what's in the canon of even the two games (let alone the rest of the EU) care what "changes" are being made in newer stories?

Because I do care. It's not like I'm angry about or will throw myself of a bridge....but the way they portray Revan...it's not the way most people played him, with the armor and back-hand grip. I used to be a huge Kotor fan and the game was all about 'being Revan.' By 'canonising' many stuff about Revan, the magic of the character (which is the player him/herself) is somewhat lost.
For example, everyone who played a short-haired of female Revan is already 'out of the loop' now. the character that appeared in the video's is not 'their' Revan.

I can see why it appears strange. It's a completely fictional character. But it's a fictional character that was shaped by every individual player. Unlike Gordon Freeman or The Duke, the character of Revan get's 'closer' to you, which is one of the plusses of most RPG's.

But anyway, I look forward to SWTOR. The fact that Bioware tries to 'end' Revans story in a nice way is commendable :)

Lord Foley 09-21-2010 01:51 PM

Why is everyone complaining about the story when in fact it's that absolutely retarded "edgy" lightsaber grip that ruins everything? Starkiller has a quirky style of fighting, okay. OH BUT ITS SO COOL THAT EVERY COOL CHARACTER SHOULD DO IT.

I think they should remake the movie saga with every Jedi/Sith holding their lightsaber like that.

TKA-001 09-21-2010 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2749432)
the way they portray Revan...it's not the way most people played him, with the armor and back-hand grip. I used to be a huge Kotor fan and the game was all about 'being Revan.' By 'canonising' many stuff about Revan, the magic of the character (which is the player him/herself) is somewhat lost.
For example, everyone who played a short-haired of female Revan is already 'out of the loop' now. the character that appeared in the video's is not 'their' Revan.

That's what I don't get. Why does the canon rendering of the character shaft the experience of an individual player any more than another individual's does? They fall into the same category as far as the individual is concerned: Another "version".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Foley (Post 2749860)
Why is everyone complaining about the story when in fact it's that absolutely retarded "edgy" lightsaber grip that ruins everything?

Are you ****ting me?

Sisiana 09-22-2010 11:19 PM

My thoughts? That my Revan will continue to be female/awesome/came back from outer regions and I will subsequently ignore this mmo and substitute my own canon! Peace out! :thmbup1:

Ztalker 09-23-2010 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2749888)
That's what I don't get. Why does the canon rendering of the character shaft the experience of an individual player any more than another individual's does? They fall into the same category as far as the individual is concerned: Another "version".


Are you ****ting me?

Let's agree to disagree. It's useless for us both to continue :)

TKA-001 09-23-2010 01:18 PM

Okie-dokie. :) :) :) :) :)

mattig89ch 09-26-2010 02:03 PM

I dunno. We now know he was a gaurdian before the mem wipe. But I do like Kreai's version better. Falling to save the republic (or trying to).

But, to me at least, I'd be more then willing to admit that he had every intention of saving the republic.....at first. Then he because consumed by wanting to control his own empire that he kept those shipyards and star bases alive for his own use. Of course, malak was an idiot and just destroyed everything.

I suppose its just open to interpretation.

TKA-001 09-26-2010 06:18 PM

I don't see how the man can be said to have wanted to preserve the Republic since he declared war on it. The closest accurate thing was that he wanted to preserve the galaxy's people.

Seikan 09-27-2010 01:33 PM

Well, something is the way Mala did the War, an other thing is how Revan did it.
Revan wasn't triying to crash the republic and it's army, but to take control over it, he would probably have strike Coruscant, and forced the republic to capitulate, keeping a part of it's soldiers, their military resources etc...

Unlike Malak who destroyed entire planets for his pleasure.

And also when it's say that he wanted to preserve the republic I think it's more the planets, on it, and not the political system.

But we should also think that he does fall to the dark side, not because he couldn't resist, but to conquer the republic and prepare it against the true siths. Like Kreia told the exile "maybe he became the dark lord to prevent a greater evil". It don't means he wasn't evil, it means the true Siths were worse, and that he might defeat them taking control over the republic. and then the Repubic would be better than it would be after being conquerer by the true siths.

TKA-001 09-27-2010 05:55 PM

Quote:

Unlike Malak who destroyed entire planets for his pleasure.
Malak is known to have ordered exactly two planets destroyed during his time as a Sith. The first was to test the loyalty of an experienced and high-ranking leader of the Sith Navy, and the second was to prevent the escape of an individual who was the only advantage which the Republic had over the Sith. Revan's plans to convert followers and destroy his enemies killed no smaller amount of people (would anyone like a serving of Malachor V?).


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