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-   -   Why Didn't the Jedi Rebuild??? (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=205913)

starkiller1157 11-12-2010 08:13 PM

Why Didn't the Jedi Rebuild???
 
In Kotor 1 you find out that Malak attacked Dantooine and destroyed the jedi enclave, which we see in ruins in Kotor 2.

But my question is, if the ending cannon version of Kotor 1 is the Jedi won, why didn't they rebuild the enclave?

Rtas Vadum 11-12-2010 09:57 PM

That academy was a "secret" academy - as in one that just everyone wouldn't know about. And when Malak attacked it, the reasons for him doing so would've been dragged into the spotlight, just like the Academy was.

Sure, they could've rebuilt it, but then Dantooine would've been in the same position that Kattar was put in, if Nihilus found out about it.

starkiller1157 11-12-2010 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtas Vadum (Post 2755835)
Sure, they could've rebuilt it, but then Dantooine would've been in the same position that Kattar was put in, if Nihilus found out about it.

Then why rebuild in Kotor 2? As soon as you find all the Jedi its all new? If what you're saying is true to avoid Nihilus, then there would be no point in rebuilding in Kotor 2, right?

Not only that, but then where did the Jedi continue training after the events of Kotor 1? Did they go somewhere else?

Rtas Vadum 11-13-2010 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkiller1157 (Post 2755838)
Then why rebuild in Kotor 2? As soon as you find all the Jedi its all new? If what you're saying is true to avoid Nihilus, then there would be no point in rebuilding in Kotor 2, right?

Not only that, but then where did the Jedi continue training after the events of Kotor 1? Did they go somewhere else?

I wouldn't say its all new after you find all the masters in K2. You still have interior collapses, along with various other problems with the academy itself. They wouldn't have known about Nihilus after the events of K1, but once Jedi started disappearing as they had before the events of Kattar, then Dantootine would've been a target, if it was a functioning Academy.

And the Enclave on Dantooine wasn't the only one. Few a probably hidden(such as the one on Telos), but the Jedi High Temple on Corescant is well known. When exactly they might've abandoned that one, I can't be sure.

logan23 11-13-2010 07:30 PM

You have to remember many of the people blammed the Jedi for that attack and others saw the sith as bad jedi....one and the same. With that it would not be a good idea to rebuild academy...when you want to fix your image...just good politics.

Zerimar Nyliram 11-13-2010 08:08 PM

On the same train of thought, I always wondered just how four lone Jedi Masters suddenly rebuilt the Jedi Enclave once you gather them there. I always thought that was kind of stupid.

Darth Avlectus 11-13-2010 09:23 PM

^^^Plot expediency and time constraint.

Possible explanation: the governor being good friends with master Vrook Lamar could have done a great deal to aid them. Resources and even hire for those now grateful for Jedi presence after fighting off mercenaries. If you think about it, khoonda was a trade hub attracting people. It isn't much of a stretch to say that one area with a good economy might have drawn other help. Granted it's a minor detail, but I agree it would have made the story a lot more plausible.

Perhaps rebuilding has exhausted the masters to a point that they could not sufficiently defend themselves?
========================
@OP:
Aside from being irreparably damaged (implied by the dialogue of the Jedi masters), you have both exposure from Malak's attack, and residents who still didn't like Jedi. Sure the Exile did a great deal in her efforts, what with fighting off the mercenaries, but you will inevitably have the percentage of population that "doesn't care what the Jedi have done just so long as they are mostly gone".

As we're learning, Tython, Tatooine, and other places are going to have enclaves of their own.

Ztalker 11-14-2010 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkiller1157 (Post 2755828)
In Kotor 1 you find out that Malak attacked Dantooine and destroyed the jedi enclave, which we see in ruins in Kotor 2.

But my question is, if the ending cannon version of Kotor 1 is the Jedi won, why didn't they rebuild the enclave?

Also, some (little) time after K1, the Jedi gathered again. Probably to discuss their next moves (like rebuilding this hidden Dantooine Academy). But Nihilus killed the entire planet and every Jedi on it. That would have made rebuilding sort of difficult ;)

starkiller1157 11-15-2010 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan23 (Post 2755934)
You have to remember many of the people blammed the Jedi for that attack and others saw the sith as bad jedi....one and the same. With that it would not be a good idea to rebuild academy...when you want to fix your image...just good politics.

Yeah, but at the end of Kotor 1 the Jedi defeated Malak and his Sith Empire was dieing. I think they'd be happy that the Jedi defeated them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2755938)
On the same train of thought, I always wondered just how four lone Jedi Masters suddenly rebuilt the Jedi Enclave once you gather them there. I always thought that was kind of stupid.

I found that odd as well :S And if Dantooine could be threatened by the Sith, why go there at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity (Post 2755945)
Possible explanation: the governor being good friends with master Vrook Lamar could have done a great deal to aid them. Resources and even hire for those now grateful for Jedi presence after fighting off mercenaries.

Don't forget the governer kept the Jedis present on the down-low. She even hesitates when you ask her. And the people don't see very friendly, I doubt she could of gotten them to help the Jedi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2756028)
But Nihilus killed the entire planet and every Jedi on it. That would have made rebuilding sort of difficult ;)

I don't understand, I thought he destroyed Visas planet, not the Jedi???

Ztalker 11-15-2010 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkiller1157 (Post 2756075)
I don't understand, I thought he destroyed Visas planet, not the Jedi???

All the known Jedi were on Visas' planet at that time for a conclave, to discuss their next moves. Their ranks were thin, and many Jedi were killed by Sion's assassins. Then Nihilus came and 'killed' the entire planet and every known Jedi on it.
Atris survived because she knew Nihilus would come, so she didn''t go to the conclave. The other masters from Kotor 2 decided to hide after this, since there were no Jedi anymore and it was far too dangerous. And that's were Kotor 2 starts. With the exile being the 'last' of the Jedi.

starkiller1157 11-15-2010 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ztalker (Post 2756078)
All the known Jedi were on Visas' planet at that time for a conclave, to discuss their next moves. Their ranks were thin, and many Jedi were killed by Sion's assassins. Then Nihilus came and 'killed' the entire planet and every known Jedi on it.
Atris survived because she knew Nihilus would come, so she didn''t go to the conclave. The other masters from Kotor 2 decided to hide after this, since there were no Jedi anymore and it was far too dangerous. And that's were Kotor 2 starts. With the exile being the 'last' of the Jedi.

Was this all told in Kotor 2? I must either had skipped that part or its gone from my memory :S

I just bought Kotor 2 for my pc and will be playing it soon. I'll be sure to pay close attention this time.

Ztalker 11-15-2010 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkiller1157 (Post 2756082)
Was this all told in Kotor 2? I must either had skipped that part or its gone from my memory :S

I just bought Kotor 2 for my pc and will be playing it soon. I'll be sure to pay close attention this time.

Yep, it's all in Kotor 2. Quite from the start actually. The exile enter known space for the first time in years at the start of the game and immediately wonders where the Jedi are. The three masters, visas and Kreia explain the situation. :) It's quite a good story actually. You'd expect (like you said) that K1 ended happily. But it went downhill from there with a Jedi purge.

Darth Avlectus 11-16-2010 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkiller1157 (Post 2756075)


Don't forget the governer kept the Jedis present on the down-low. She even hesitates when you ask her. And the people don't see very friendly, I doubt she could of gotten them to help the Jedi.

It could have been militia...or help from somewhere else.

GODKING 12-21-2010 04:39 AM

It would be stupid for the jedi that are being hunted to try to rebuild it in the same place that it was destroyed in the first place. And the Jedi don't have the resources or the man power to rebuild another one. In KOTOR 2 the Enchia at Telos is lucky to have that secret place. The republic probably wont give them resources to rebuild because with like what logan said the jedi are blamed for the wars and the destruction of their first place and that the public see the sith as rouge jedi it wouldnt be smart for the republic to help them because it would ruin the republics image (whats left of it) also you might cause some soldier to rebel from the republic or even stop fighting becuase they think it is stupid to waste money helping the jedi that cause this war and do you think the republic soldiers that will be guarding the new construction of the new council building is going to be happy about that.Can you say REBELION? Which means less future soldiers to take the ranks of the fallen soldiers. Also you have to think if the jedi all gather in one spot wouldnt that make them a easy prey for the sith. Dont you think the Sith wants them to come together in one spot; thats a lot easier than flying all over the galaxy in search of them. And you also have to take into consideration that many jedi fear for their life they know that it is not smart to come out of hiding to try to restore and order that has fallen before while they are being hunted by not only the sith, but mercs and bounty hunters looking for an easy pay day. And no government wants to be the person who is housing the jedi because for one your going to be bombarded from hell when the sith find out and two if the public find out your going to have some anarchy on your hands. Thats is why the jedi didn't rebuild in my opinion.

Darth Avlectus 12-21-2010 09:02 PM

I guess a better thread title is why didn't the Jedi rebuild COMPLETELY, though we've all covered it more or less. The enclave was rebuilt enough so that the order could establish itself once more "when the time was right". Unfortunately it was short lived. IMO the only place that actually got rebuilt was the council quarters and the door. The rest of it was pretty much ruins though the underside to the academy seemed fairly intact.


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