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thelazygent 01-12-2011 01:05 PM

Yoda and Obi Wan
 
Why didn't they join the rebel alliance during the dark times era/TFU time?

It is my understanding that Yoda went into exile because he couldn't destroy the emperor. He then went into exile on Dagobah. Then he encounters Starkiller. Yoda must realize that he is a very powerfull force sensitive and that he is not of the Sith ( I think it was pretty apparent that Starkiller was a not a Sith, because of his mellow nature in the cutscene). Why wouldn't he have said something? Has Yoda lost all hope in the Jedi or destroying the Sith? Surely Yoda and Starkiller could have destroyed the Emperor and Vader. He could have atleast tried to destroy them. Yoda then is reluctant to train Luke. Did Yoda not care about the future of the Jedi or destroying the Sith. He lets an extremely powerful force sensitive go without figuring out anything about him and he is reluctant to train the offspring of the person with the highest minichlorian count ever. What is Yoda doing?

Obi Wan goes into exile because he will watch over Luke. I don't understand why he didn't train Luke when he was young. If Luke was trained young, he could have easily destroyed the emperor and Vader. I have heard that the emperor would feel a new force user, but then why couldn't the emperor sense Obi Wan was where he was? Obi Wan definitely knew of the Rebel Alliance, because there were alot of people of Tattoine that were a part of it. Why didn't he join? Its almost as if he didn't care about the future of the Jedi or destruction of the Sith? Why didn't he want to destroy the sith?

Imagine if Kota, Starkiller, Obi Wan, and Yoda were part of the rebel alliance? Game over Emperor

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-12-2011 01:24 PM

"Long have I watched this one... Never his mind on where he was, what he was doing"
That is not exact, but that is Yoda talking about Luke on "meeting" him in ESB.

This is all speculatory, but seems sensible (oh god, don't tell GL)...

Luke was not trained early because he would have created a disturbance in the force perceptible by Palps and Vader at the point where he became a Padawan, and he would not have been nearly strong enough for the confrontation, despite the superior Jedi training he would have received - a kid is a kid, and a kid can't hang with the DLOTS. Obi and Yoda needed Luke to have some physical maturity, and perhaps be grounded a little more in the mundane, so that learning the ways of the Force would be done through a more mature (if still totally whiny, weak, weasily) way.

Yoda knew, from his 1 on 1 with Palps, that his days as the Force Master were behind him - that he could not beat Palps alone anymore. Obviously then, neither could Kenobi. So, they both went into hiding, waiting for Luke and Leia; trying to live long enough to pass on to them what they had learned and give the new generation a fighting chance.

This isn't really a revelation, is it? It is, I think, pretty much what the movies have told us.

I think you underestimate the power of Palpatine, and the power of Luke. (the latter I understand easier :p )

Mandalorian Mercenary 01-12-2011 01:42 PM

I think the only reason that Palpatine won in Episode III was because he HAD to win, or else he wouldn't have been Emperor in 4 5 and 6. And I find it amusing how Palpatine crushed Yoda, but Darth Vader picks him up and throws him down the Death Star shaft and he dies :p

Sordid Dreams 01-12-2011 02:15 PM

Yeah, I think the existence of the OT is pretty much the most important reason for all of this, including the incredibly stupid decision by Kenobi and Yoda to split up at the end of Ep3.

"Oh gee, two of us there are, and one of him. Incredibly powerful Sith Lord he is. Now that we know his new apprentice is away and interfere he cannot, we should split up and only one of us should fight him."
"Wait, master Yoda, don't you mean we should gang up on him and then once he's mincemeat hunt down his apprentice at our leisure?"
"Up, shut! I here the Jedi master am. Far lousier than yours my grammar is, which wisdom mine shows. Now as you are told go do, and perfectly fine this all will turn out."

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-12-2011 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams (Post 2763968)
"Up, shut! I here the Jedi master am. Far lousier than yours my grammar is, which wisdom mine shows. Now as you are told go do, and perfectly fine this all will turn out."

ROTFL :D

Edit: That is some quotable stuff right there... nice!!

Klw 01-12-2011 02:58 PM

I think the simple answer for nearly every question on here is: They're all really, really old (the emperor included) and can't do much of anything anymore.

As for why Obi-Wan didn't train Luke: Kind of like what Glenn said, but more along the lines of the fact that Obi-Wan would have to come out of hiding to meet Luke and would end up showing his face to people living in imperial-controlled lands, even if it's just moisture farmers. Even if a handful of people saw his face, the Empire's chances of locating his hideout would go up dramatically. If this happened while Luke was a child it would be game over.

Zerimar Nyliram 01-12-2011 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams (Post 2763968)
Yeah, I think the existence of the OT is pretty much the most important reason for all of this, including the incredibly stupid decision by Kenobi and Yoda to split up at the end of Ep3.

What else did you think was going to happen? That seemed like the only possible outcome. The original Trilogy--particularly Episodes V and VI--kind of solidified this.

It was there from the start.

thelazygent 01-12-2011 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Glenn (Post 2763956)
"
Obi and Yoda needed Luke to have some physical maturity, and perhaps be grounded a little more in the mundane, so that learning the ways of the Force would be done through a more mature (if still totally whiny, weak, weasily) way.

Then why did Yoda say ""No. He is too old. Too old to begin the training"


Quote:

Yoda knew, from his 1 on 1 with Palps, that his days as the Force Master were behind him - that he could not beat Palps alone anymore. Obviously then, neither could Kenobi.

In the ROTS DVD, Lucas states that the two battles at the end of the movie are battles of equals in terms of force ability. He says that Obi Wan and Anakin are equal and that Palp and Yoda are equal. Im not trying to be an ******* to you, but there seems to be alot of contradiction in Star Wars.

Quote:

So, they both went into hiding, waiting for Luke and Leia; trying to live long enough to pass on to them what they had learned and give the new generation a fighting chance.
Then why would Yoda just let StarKiller go? He was certainly lead a new generation to a fighting chance

Qui-Gon Glenn 01-12-2011 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelazygent (Post 2763984)
Then why did Yoda say ""No. He is too old. Too old to begin the training"

Standard Jedi line for anyone coming into the Order that the Order did not bring in themselves... see TPM and Anakin. Unless you're a toddler, you are too old in Yoda's book. He is a little grumpy, after all.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thelazygent (Post 2763984)
In the ROTS DVD, Lucas states that the two battles at the end of the movie are battles of equals in terms of force ability. He says that Obi Wan and Anakin are equal and that Palp and Yoda are equal. Im not trying to be an ******* to you, but there seems to be alot of contradiction in Star Wars.

I'm OK if you're OK.

I watched the movies, and ignored what GL said. In the movies, Palps won a tough battle decisively, mostly on strategy (higher ground). Hold that battle in a confined arena, I might give the edge to Yoda, slightly. Bottom line, fights aren't fair, Palps won. Obi Wan was only equal to Anakin, at that time, in the sense that Obi Wan was at full mastery of his (normal) powers, while Anakin was coming into his own (extraordinary) powers, yet was not fully in dem britches yet. Place that battle a year further in the future, Kenobi has no chance. The timing was right for that battle.
Quote:

Originally Posted by thelazygent (Post 2763984)
Then why would Yoda just let StarKiller go? He was certainly lead a new generation to a fighting chance

Starkiller didn't go to Yoda for training... he didn't go to Yoda at all, he went to Dagobah. Yoda sensed him, had sensed him, and saw what he saw.... I don't presume to know the wisdom of an inestimable and totally imaginary mind, but I trust that Yoda knew what was going on.... Yoda always knows what is going on, like Artoo, and chose to let Starkiller follow his vision in the cave. Presumably to lead a new generation to a fighting chance.... sound familiar? :p

TKA-001 01-13-2011 12:06 AM

Quote:

Obi Wan goes into exile because he will watch over Luke. I don't understand why he didn't train Luke when he was young. If Luke was trained young, he could have easily destroyed the emperor and Vader. I have heard that the emperor would feel a new force user, but then why couldn't the emperor sense Obi Wan was where he was? Obi Wan definitely knew of the Rebel Alliance, because there were alot of people of Tattoine that were a part of it.
I figure that one of the main reasons Obi-Wan didn't train Luke from the get-go was that Owen and Beru didn't want the kid to grow up as a Jedi and get killed on some ridiculous adventure.

Sordid Dreams 01-13-2011 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram (Post 2763983)
What else did you think was going to happen? That seemed like the only possible outcome. The original Trilogy--particularly Episodes V and VI--kind of solidified this.

It was there from the start.

Well sure Palps was going to win in the end, but it just irks me that he won because Yoda and Kenobi are literally too stupid to grasp that 2 > 1. I guess the fault lies ultimately with Lucas, who wrote it that way so that he could cut back and forth between two action packed lightsaber duels. Making sense was apparently secondary.

MajinMikeyX 01-13-2011 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams (Post 2764140)
Well sure Palps was going to win in the end, but it just irks me that he won because Yoda and Kenobi are literally too stupid to grasp that 2 > 1. I guess the fault lies ultimately with Lucas, who wrote it that way so that he could cut back and forth between two action packed lightsaber duels. Making sense was apparently secondary.

Mostly it is true that 2 > 1, but just look at Darth Maul. He was able to take on both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon relatively well. This is Palpatine, and while he and Yoda may have been equals, he would be much too overwhelming for Obi-Wan, even with Yoda there, and might even get in Yoda's way.

Besides, if Obi-Wan stayed to help out Yoda, Anakin would never have been burnt to a crisp and have his legs and an arm cut off by Obi-Wan, and we wouldn't have Vader.

Zerimar Nyliram 01-13-2011 10:34 PM

Well, he would still have technically been Vader, and he already was Vader at that point. But I get what you're saying.

Sordid Dreams 01-14-2011 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajinMikeyX (Post 2764273)
Mostly it is true that 2 > 1, but just look at Darth Maul. He was able to take on both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon relatively well.

No he wasn't. He was only able to gain the upper hand once he managed to separate them. Up until that point he was constantly on the defensive.

Zwier Zak 01-17-2011 10:35 AM

Everything made perfect sense before the prequels came along.

JonChaos6 03-16-2011 02:21 PM

Im getting my ten cents in this one. Yoda and Obi both needed to wait for the perfect time to train Luke and Leia but the events from Eps 4 prevented Obi wan when he allowed himself to die to help luke and the others escape. so it fell on yoda to pick up where Obi Wan left off. but we all know where the events went after that. but yea i have to admit Yoda knew who Starkiller was but never did anything about it allowed him into the cave with no effort on a fight or anything. Also from what ive gather Sith can mislead people to beleiving they are something when they are not. Starkiller from the game was not a clone if everyone has forgotten from the events of the first game when Vader stabed Starkiller in the back and then came back on a meddical bed because of vader brought him back from the dead then. Unless you do the Dark Side ending in Force Unleashed 2 you would still think Starkiller was a clone but he really wasnt he could of been thrown to the brink of death at the end of Force Unleashed 1 but that is the Question everyone is wondering, i have gathered this much from putting things together.

mstr kenobi 03-17-2011 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajinMikeyX (Post 2764273)
Besides, if Obi-Wan stayed to help out Yoda, Anakin would never have been burnt to a crisp and have his legs and an arm cut off by Obi-Wan, and we wouldn't have Vader.

That's the problem with the prequels honestly, Obi-Wan has to go there not because it's the decision that makes most sense, (Anakin was a pawn, if they kill Sidious and what he's gonna do? he's got nothing at this point) but because they were running out of time and needed to tie things together.

Maybe, if they made Obi-Wan say "I have to talk to him, i can still save him" or something to that effect it would make more sense for Obi-Wan to go after him.

If they had gone for that, i would have to cut the killing children thing, that's definetely too much to accept.:mad:

MASTER RAVE 01-23-2013 08:14 PM

i have to get this off my chest...i see this argument time&time again.for the people that seem for what reason i have no idea to think that yoda lost to sidious is ridicules!yoda walked into the senate room talks some smack to sidious gets took by surprise with a blast of force lighting,recovers plays a little posum gets up bam!! force push sidious looen like the fool gets throw across the room looks at yoda wow didnt see or think you had that kind of blast behind that force push,says to himself to hell with this no time got go.yoda oh hh no you don't blocks his path,then lightsabers are brought to bare they look to be the equal of one another,if not yoda being the aggressor and pushing sidious into the diffusive.at some point we never get to see yoda disarm sidious maybe we will in the animated clone wars last season:)from there the high ground is now sidious major advantage but even so yoda manages to elude&climb his way back up before stoping a pod and sending it back at sidious.you can just read sidious face,wow this guy is becoming a real pain in my ass.....yoda force jumps the remaining distance to the last senate pod with lightsaber at the ready or so he thought..if theres one thing sidious does have over yoda its that insane dark side lighting with power 2nd to none!!yoda ever the wiseman just absorbs it, with much effort i most say but no the less again baffles sidious push it back at him like here this is yours better luck next time palps... BAM the explosion forces them both apart and the only reason palps stays on is because hes inside the pod yoda the outside.how is this an ass kicking?draw:)

Xavier1985 01-28-2013 10:45 AM

Kenobi's mission was to look over luke.. yoda ent into self ecile on dagobah to hide from the emperor and vader using the planets natural build up of dark side energy as yoda as the most poerful jedi left in existance, he hid so the sith would not get him.. no if these two decided to join in, it would be in direct contradiction as to why they were where they were to begin with.


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