Anyone in the mood to talk about the story of MI 1+2?
I'm desperately looking for monkey island fans who are interested in discussing the story of Monkey Island 1 and 2. I won't ask what the secret of monkey island is don't worry, but I'd like to discuss interesting/weird aspects of the story and I hope you'll mention things you wondered about.
So I'll start with this question:
Right from the beginning you see things which do not fit in the pirate world of the 18th century, e.g. "Employess only" sign on the backdoor in the alley on melee island, the vending machine on stans used shipyard, the sign at meathooks house, breath mints, and later the whole tunnel system thing and many many more. Now one can consider all those things "jokes" and I'm sure they were partly meant as such but Ron Gilbert said about them:
"This isn't a historically accurate game. In fact, you'll see when you play that there are a lot of anachronisms, like the vending machine at Stan's used ship yard. They're there to add humor to the game of course, but they also have a secret, deeper relevance to the story."
So with all this knowledge, where do you think the game actually takes place? Is it the 18th century or is it playing today (or 1990ish when the game was released) and all the pirate stuff is some kind of show?
Please use hints from the game to support your arguments (e.g. one of the pirates during the sword fighting says when Guybrush asks him "Why do you guys talking so funny?": "Pirate Lingo! It's how everybody talked back then. Come on Guybrush, play along!" This would be a hint that everything is taking place long after the golden ages of piracy.)
Solving the secret of Monkey Island?
YES, ME! Hi there! :thmbup1:
I have played MI 1-4 several years ago but am still puzzled:
Is Big Whoop the E ticket? Why has the theme park that name too? That "Carnival of the Damned" thing is not connected to Ron Gilbert’s vision, is it?
Is Big Whoop a gate to hell as hinted in MI3?
I think one should focus on MI 1 & 2 since these are the MI games by Ron Gilbert.
Ron Gilbert says during a chat:
"<Dalixam> Hi Ron, glad to meet you The secret of Monkey Island is probably the most well kept secret ever. Can it actually be seen/found in MI1 or MI2? I'm not asking you to reveal it
<Ron-G> Yes, if you really look at what's going on, you might be able to come close.
<Ron-G> There are a lot of jokes, that aren't really jokes.
<Ron-G> The problem with the Secret of Monkey Island...
<Ron-G> is that it's built up sich a mystic, that when I finally do reviel it, you're all going to go "That was dumb". :-)"
"<DJG> Sort of related to tel's first question, In Monkey Island 2, by the Voodoo Lady we're told that The Big Whoop is a gateway to another world, which still holds true in CMI, but we're also told that its a place where Guybrush can be free of LeChuck forever. However, in CMI, Big Whoop turns out to be the gate to hell. Is this one of the things you would change in your MI3?
<Ron-G> Like I said before, I didn't really have any plans for Big Whoop. I didn't think people would latch onto it, so it was never a part of my story.
<_Dom_> Imagine your surprise. :-)
<Ron-G> As for if I would change that, that's not really a fair question because my story was so different.
<Flirbnic> There are a lot of theories about what the Secret of Monkey Island is...
<Flirbnic> One of them is that there are portals everywhere
<Flirbnic> eg. when guybrush falls down the hole on Dinky Island, he goes through a portal to the hallway world
<Flirbnic> and after Guybrush takes off LeChuck's mask, they go through a portal to the carnival world, where the grog machine came from
<Flirbnic> then there is my theory that the secret is the location of Monkey Island
<Flirbnic> And there is another theory that it's all just a dream that a little boy (Guybrush) was having while in a ride similar to the Pirates of the Caribbean thing...
<Flirbnic> Which of these is closest to the Secret of Monkey Island?
* Flirbnic inhales
<Ron-G> Cold, cold and cold.
<_Dom_> I smell a dead horse.
<Ron-G> One is closer than the others...but not much.
<Flirbnic> Which one?
<Ron-G> the other one."
So I am asking myself: Is the whole end of MI2 a magical illusion or are the adult Guybrush, LeChuck and islands a magical illusion? The theme park at the end of MI2 resembles the MI2 islands...
Maybe, just as Elaine hints, everything that happens after Guybrush and the treasure chest fell down is not real - these strange tunnels with the dead parents, the elevator to Melee Island...
And if the E-Ticket IS Big Whoop, is Guybrush a kid, happy about his Disneyland style E-Ticket? Big Whoop is shown as a theme park at the end, so how can finding Big Whoop…
Wait, the Voodoo lady said, that when Guybrush finds Big Whoop, he’s save from LeChuck, right?
It’s true – LeChuck turned into Chucky. I think I’m coming close.
But why do both turn into kids? Maybe some kind of parallel dimension? And if so, did the E-Ticket do the trick or LeChuck’s zapping with the voodoo doll or other powers?
And is LeChuck in control of the whole thing or affected like Guybrush by a mighty magic voodoo power?
Ron Gilbert said in a chat about the MI series “look closer grasshopper” which is a quote that refers to a situation with a spider being trapped by its own web (a scene from a famous kung fu series or movie).
So MAYBE this is a hint that LeChuck is affected by some magic/dimension jump as well (hence he’s seen as a kid).
Now there are hints all over the games that Guybrush is all the time in a theme park – there was a acomment from Ron Gilbert that the anachronisms are gags but ALSO have a deeper meaning.
So, are things like the waterfall that can be turned off and the dinosaur on Dinky Island hints that Guybrush IS in a theme park? Just like the grog vending machine at Stan’s (SoMI) and in the tunnel at the end of MI2 (is it the SAME machine?)?
I found this comment, not from Ron, from some forum user:
"Someone wrote an article for The Scummbar claiming that the secret of monkey island was that the whole adventure was a figment of a young boy's imagination, and that the whole thing took place in an amusment park. Guybrush got seperated from his mean brother, (LeChuck), he walked around pretending to be a pirate, went on the Pirates of the Carribean ride, and so on and so forth. The end of the article had supporting evidence that Bill Tiller said, "The secret is that the MI world is not real."
Important hint from Ron:
"<Ron-G> There are a lot of jokes, that aren't really jokes.”
But then there are the glowing eyes at the end and Elaine mentioning the possibility of a SPELL…
One guy at YouTube claimes to know this:
"However, in the commentary for the special edition, the developers say that you have to understand a lot of science stuff in order to understand the ending, so maybe it is more complicated than you think. I'm not saying I understand it, but i think it's very deep."
2 more theories from my point of view:
- The E ticket or the defective voodoo doll DO send Guybrush (and LeChuck?) to a dimension of pain (that’s called Big Whoop)!
-Or Guybrush is at Big Whoop all the time since MI1 – SoMI – without knowing that this theme park is sending him to another dimension but when Guybrush finds Big Whoop (= reality) he can escape LeChuck.
I think that Guybrush might enter the theme park at the beginning of MI1 and MI2, that’s why he just walks on the scene, but in MI2 he had a beard grown between the two visits/games His behavior, the humor of the game and the complicated puzzles indicate that he is that teenage guy that we see on the screen – NOT a kid..
So, in my theories, Guybrush is of the age that we see in the first MI games – a teenager (in MI2 he states that he’s 19).
Maybe the E ticket is just the symbol the Big Whoop meaning endless youth so to say.
But Elaine’s mentioning at the end of MI2 hints that that the magic did start when Guybrush was down in the mysterious tunnels (wherever the tunnels are – maybe these tunnels are Big Whoop, a gate to another dimension – hey, that makes sense. A gate to the dimension where Guybrush gets rid of LeChuck (but not Chuckie)… am I getting closer to this? ;)
I believe that the answer really has something to do with a theme park.
Remember Monkey Island 1 - when one of the pirates tells Guybrush: "Pirate lingo! It's how everybody talked back then. Come on Guybrush, play along"?
And in MI1 there is that stump joke - a tunnel sytsem below Melee Island is mentioned!
Of course there are several other things such as the self awareness of the characters, being part of a computer game...
My 2 cents about the parents and brothers thing:
Guybrush’s parents state to be loving parents – why should they have left him (the bone song scene).
So, I think that they might be dead like Rapp Scallion without noticing it (like when you fall asleep you don’t know it, you think you are still awake but the one sleeping next to you hears you snoring ;) ).
One YouTube guy states this:
"Well, they explained it nicely in MI3. There are speculations that Ron Gilbert had plans for his own MI3. One for sure - LeChuck is real in this story."
My thoughts about LeChuck’s identity:
So, a real LeChuck even suits well with MI3 (which Ron Gilbert find pretty good, but totally different and with some mistakes like Elain’s charcter).
But IF LeChuck is real, can he still be Guybrush’s brother? A pirate that became a ghost pirate and then a zombie?
There is a mentioning of Guybrush being an orphan (some dialogue line from MI2 – LCR where Guybrush and Wally are trapped at LeChuck’s fortress).
I found this chat:
"<|Woody|> Ron-G: This is probably meant to be a secret too, but I'm really curios about the Guybrush-LeChuck-brother thing. Are they brothers or what? You don't have to reveal all your thought about it, but give us at least a hint :-)
<Ron-G> In one sense, yes they are brothers, in another way, they are not. If you get what I mean.
<|Woody|> uh... not really, but ok
<MrMutton> You mean, we're all part of God's family?
<_Dom_> This doesn't involve incest or anything, does it?
<_Dom_> LeChuck's my brother... and my father!
<iMSaved> i dont get it
<Ron-G> Let me put it another way...
<Ron-G> In one sense, yes they are brothers, in another way, they are not.
<MrMutton> Ah right!
<iMSaved> Are they like brothers in law or something?
<Microangelo> Oh, it's all so clear to me now
<Ron-G> Look closly grasshopper.
<|Woody|> oooh that makes it all clear
<Ron-G> YES, THEY ARE BROTHERS!!! LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!"
So, are Guybrush's parents dead? If Guybrush's adventures on Booty Island are real, they are, aren't they?
This would fit with the orphan thing, BUT only if the skeleton parents are not Guybrush’s real parents (since they are LeChuck’s real parents, hence the voodoo doll is working on LeChuck) OR if they are the real parents of both kids, but in that case Guybrush must have been raised in an orphanage and in MI2 he recognized his parents because he knew them from a photo or something.
Btw, I think that all the Disney references are jokes and are there because the Disney ride Pirates of the Caribbean are a main influence for this game. This does not mean that Guybrush is at Disneyland.
Here are further clues and good guesses about the whole thing:
Does someone really know what Ron Gilbert’s ideas for a third Monkey Island were/are? I read that he once gave some hints in a blog…
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