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MsFicwriter 05-18-2013 01:43 AM

Kreia and the Force (SPOILER WARNING!)
I'm trying to figure out what Kreia believed about the Force and why. To wit:

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P.S. I think "Meetra Surik" is a stupid name. It sounds like hazelnut spread. "Got a sweet tooth? Try Meetra Surik, cocoa-creamy, kicking Nutella's nuts!"

P.P.S. Would any of you who respond to this thread mind if I use your ideas in a story I'm writing?

TKA-001 05-18-2013 11:18 AM

Many (or some) Jedi seem to have the idea that the Force has some kind of a will and a desire to keep itself in balance - hence the whole prophecy referring to Anakin needing to balance the Force, Qui-Gon believing that the Force somehow deliberately created him, etc. Lots of fans seem to interpret this whole "balance of the Force" deal as though imbalance means "too much light side or too much dark side in the galaxy at any time," which I think is erroneous. There is nothing in the movies themselves to support that the Force works this way, with two sides constantly in conflict with each other that both need to be kept at bay, as though the Force is a set of metaphysical scales - I think it's important to note that the phrase "light side" never appears in the films; and that the reason for that is that the Jedi (at least as Lucas envisioned them) look at the universe in the sense that "there is the Force, and when it is misused, corrupted as it manifests in people and places, that is the dark side, the imbalance," not "there is the light side and the dark side, equals and opposites."

As for Kreia herself: keep in mind that she is a control freak, a self-determinist, and also that she used to be a respected Jedi Master, and then the lord of all the Sith. I think it's more than likely that she picked up the idea of the Force having a will during those experiences and was never able to shake it. She probably looked at history (being a Jedi historian) and saw that repeatedly, light-siders and dark-siders have been in war after war, and with the revelation of more Sith being out in the Unknown Regions, that suggests to her that there's no end to the conflicts in sight.

I think that, no matter how much Kreia may have ever wanted to believe that everyone can choose their own destiny or whatever, she was never able to convince herself that the Force is not putting up the Jedi and Sith to their activities. It's also more than likely that the fact that both orders cast her out in shame and disgrace colored her perceptions of the Force in general. Hence her hatred of the Force: the Jedi and Sith both rejected her, and she can't un-see the patterns she's seen. To her, it appears that these Force-users are just going to be endlessly fighting, and so many innocents are going to be destroyed because of their wars, and everyone will lose in the end.

Erroneous? Most likely. I don't see why the Force would need to keep itself alive by fueling these conflicts (or want to especially if it doesn't have to), but it's not hard to see why Kreia would come to that conclusion. Just another example of the completely accidental genius of TSL.

And yes, Kreia's pretty much definitely insane, or at least a major-league hypocrite (which she indirectly admits to if you ask her why she uses the Force if she hates it so much). For all the things about the Jedi and Sith that she claims to revile, she's pretty much the same as them, playing the same game, with the only major difference being that she hates the game itself, too.

Shem 05-19-2013 03:31 PM

Go to the 1:10 mark of this video I made many years ago:

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YouTube Video

JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan 06-09-2013 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by TKA-001 (Post 2832635)

Pretty much this.

@MsFicwriter: Have a good read of the Darth Traya article on Wookiepedia. It contains references to sources outside of TSL, which provide some extra information/perspectives regarding Kreia's motives (also some ridiculous information - eg, according to the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia, Kreia used a double-bladed lightsaber when travelling with the Exile. What?).

Codeluke 08-18-2013 04:41 PM

Kreia is cryptic as always but she hates the force just for what it is. Like she explains in the final dialog with her after battle on Malachor V, she hates how it has a will and how it uses people to accomplish it's desires. For example, look at Darth Sion. He's obviously overdue for death but his connection to the Force has allowed him to surpress it. In the dialog with Sion after his battle I recall there is an option to ask him "What kind of life have you lived with the Force flowing through you? Was it worth living?". Kreia probably thinks that maybe life without the Force wouldn't be so bad. Considering how she was exiled, she knows what it is like to lose the Force, and she loves the Exile because he/she was forced to live without the Force. There was another scene on Nar Shadaa where you are basically coerced into either giving a man credits or killing him. Either option leads to her lecturing on your choice. Even though giving the man credits would be moral, it only makes him a target for other people who aren't so kind and would kill for those 5 credits. Although if you end up killing him or telling him to screw himself, he ends up getting angry and takes it out on someone else. Like she also says, every action has a consequence (i think she says that) and one tiny decision ripples and effects everything. However that's only a small attempt at discovering why she truly hates the force. Maybe it's because she's been on both sides of the spectrum and knows how the force works for Jedi and Sith. Well, there's my 2 cents.

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