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Old 12-12-2007, 03:16 PM   #47
Jediphile
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Sitherino
Uh, no. One complaint about an obviously non-insulting joke does not qualify for removal of content. If we'd received more complaints however, it would have been removed.
So what you're saying is that no matter what is posted, it will not be deleted unless at least two people complain about it first?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Sitherino
But seeing as pretty much every other member thought it wasn't a problem, it was left alone. And it did serve a bit of a purpose, some members seem to take themselves too seriously, they need to calm down and be better posters. Nerd rage -1.
This is so bad logic that it's just begging to be pointed out. That people did not complain does not automatically mean that they were fine with it. It just means that they didn't complain. To infer otherwise is to invoke "the silent majority". Heck, I can do that too and claim that there are few people on these boards because they are all annoyed with the lousy moderating, but just can't be bothered to complain about it. You'll note I generally don't do that. I leave that to really bad politicians...

DISCLAIMER: The latter does not mean that I'm a politician, but is just an attempt to disprove the idea that I have no sense of humor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Sitherino
No you didn't, you quoted his post (in another thread) and did so in a taunting fashion. If this wasn't your intent, then you need to learn how to phrase things better. Your post was deleted because it clearly served no purpose, the on-topic discussion was easily seen as tacked on to make yourself appear innocent.
I deny that utterly. Since I quoted Niner, you can call my post only tauting if that was true of his as well. Both were stated during heated debates on the verge of flaming. If my post served to make matters worse in that situation, then surely so did Niner's. It's sad to watch how the mods insist on sticking together in order to cover up Niner's blunder here. Just the fact that my post was deleted underscores the problem quite well, and frankly it's somehow perversely amusing to see how the mods now backpedal to differentiate between two virtually identical situations.

But I'll bite. Since you just said that it would take more than one complaint for you to delete or revise Niner's post, let me ask it openly: How many complaints did you receive about my posts before you deleted them?

And, of course, even if I were to agree that quoting Niner is acceptable - which I don't - that still leaves the matter of what it was necessary to delete the entire post. Basically what you're saying here is that it was okay to delete the entire post, because YOU didn't think the rest of it was of a high enough quality. Sorry, but that is elistist in the extreme!

It's also utterly untruthful, since the mods scarecely go through all the posts here and delete all those that are not of "sufficiently high quality". Basically you're saying that the rest of what I wrote did not have a quality that warranted its existence on these boards. Excuse me, but how DARE you judge the content of on-topic material like that?!?

I mean, what if a new poster came to this board and said in his first post: "Hi, I'm new here, but I like KotOR, and I really hope they make KotOR3 and preferably soon, though I hope Bioware makes, because TSL sucked so bad, since all the Sith Lords were the worst in Star Wars history. Bye."

Now, does this post add anything constructive to the discussion? No. It's all been said before.

Is it inflamatory? Since it voices strong criticism of characters in TSL that other people care about, it could be.

Should therefore be deleted? No.

Yet by saying that what was in my post was "tacked on" and therefore fit for deletion, you're establishing a level of quality in posts here. That's elitist. Also, please point this rule out to me in the forum guidelines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
If you've not noticed, it's common practice here for people to call each other geeks/nerds/clinically insane. If you can't handle the everyday teasing that goes on you need to grow a thicker skin, but starting threads like this expecting people to change their behavior to accommodate you is childish and self-centered.

[snip]

Double standards anyone?

Seeing you hold yourself to the same standard you're insulting people for having amuses me.
Okay, ED. Take a deep breath, please... Okay?

First, while I acknowledge that I very blunt here, I do believe it's relevant to point out the double standard here, and I would humbly ask that you look into the links I posted before judging solely on the bluntness of my comments here. Sadly that will be difficult, of course, since the allegedly offending posts are deleted and cannot be recovered

And yes, my comments are blunt. More blunt that I would like. So why is that? Sadly, it's because it is my experience that it is the only way the mods will even acknowledge my existence. While the mods say here and elsewhere that being reasonable and tolerant will yield better results, that has - unfortunately - not proven to be my experience on many occasions.

I frequently back down when people tell me that something I've pointed out is being considered by the mods, but here I find that's usually all that happens, and that if I leave it there, I'll have to wait until there are two thursdays in a week AND a cold day in Hell, if not longer...

If you find my approach childish, then I can't blame you, but how can you fault me when it works, while the alternative did not? Niner actually responded this time and considered the matter.

I too lament this. But if others will only be reasonable if I convince them that they must be because I'm so very unreasonable, then I'm left with little recourse. You're right that it's double standard, but can you blame me for following the examples of the mods? Sadly it was the only way to underscore my point, since nobody wanted to deal with it otherwise.

And since I do believe the standards of the moderation and the rules of the forum are relevant to discuss, I maintain that it was necessary to bring this to a point, where the mods had no choice but to resolve the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth333
I answered very politely to your initial PM that was already, and that was our first "personal" contact to the best of my knowledge, treating me as a nazi and saying that my title was fitting. Your response to my PM was to the effect that you had a very low opinion of me. Since I am so worthless in your opinion and even if I had prepared a very polite answer to your response, I didn't send it as I thought that it was pointless to even try to further discuss the situation with you based on what you wrote to me and what you had previously sent to other mods in the past. Next time you want a follow up on your PMs, lay off the personal insults.
What you conveniently neglect to mention here - referring to a PM not posted to the board and reffered to without my consent, I might add - is that that PM was an angry response to your decision to simply delete completely inoffensive a single post each by Ztalker and myself, where we wondered about what was permissible in response to Niner's now infamous "nerd rage" comment, which killed the discussion between liayd and myself. There was nothing offensive in those posts, and given that they were in response to mod's post about the level the discussion could be taken to, I don't think it can be considered to be unwarranted and fit for deletion. If we had continued, perhaps it had been relevant to step in, but we only posted one each and then stopped. Yet it was just deleted. If you act like a net-nazi, then don't be surprised if I make comments like your chosen name is fitting. That's humor, which I thought you liked, given that you had refused to do something about Niner's post.

Let me ask something in return. Is it permissible to mention things from PMs openly on the board, as you do here? Because it seems to me that I'm being deleted for quoting something Niner say on the board... And your intents here can hardly be called humorous IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth333
When the Source says "grow some tolerance" it should apply to everyone, not only to the staff.
Interesting. Basically you're saying that the staff will "grow some tolerance" once everybody else has.

I see the other way around: Perhaps the rest of us would grow some tolerance if the staff did first by example. And that remains to be seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth333
Finally, the mods are opened to compromise.
When? I have yet to see it yield ANY results. What Niner has said in this topic is actually the closest thing I've witnessed since I joined this forum. Others have appeared reasonable at times, yes, but has remained with only words of sympathy that disappeared quickly once those were called upon to be anything more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth333
However, as mentioned above, we can't comply with every request and moderate the boards to please everyone.
Indeed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
In the original thread, I posted following tk's warning to everyone (you and LIAYD) to cool down.
If LIAYD and myself were the only ones, then why bother? tk102 had already said something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
My post was intended to be on topic, with a bit of mirth thrown in in hopes that the two of you would take a step back and cool your jets. You obviously did not take see it that way, choosing instead to see it as an insult. You were told that it was a joke and that you should just leave it be. I imagine this did not sit well with you.
Obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
In light of these circumstances, it is hard to believe that you quoted my exact phrase with the intent of finding it funny. It's very clear to me that you intended to taunt me by doing so, given our past history and your obvious dislike of me.
No, I absolutely deny that. It's true that I did find your comment funny, but it's not true that I intended to taunt you or have obvious dislike of you.

At most you could accuse me of testing whether the comment was indeed as funny as the mods had claimed. I did not think so, so when I saw a similarly heated debate between especially yourself and another poster, I felt it wholly appropriate to quote the comment and then agree with it. After all, if it was just humor, then that would be okay, and if not, then would confirm my initial reaction to it. Since the mods did not like and repeatedly deleted my post, the latter would seem to be the case in the mods' eyes, despite their original claims to the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
You may not believe this, but I think you to be a very erudite and well-spoken contributer to these forums; that is, when you're not going off on diatribes about how the mods are out to get you. If you would just contribute and not take everything so sensitively, I imagine we'd get along just fine.
Actually, I'm arrogant enough to believe that I have contributed constructively at times - http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=177894

And I dare to believe that even this topic can be constructive if we allow it to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Unfortunately, you also have a persecution complex, in that you believe everyone on the mod staff is out to get you.
How many times am allowed to see the same pattern repeat itself before I'm allowed a conclusion? It becomes increasingly difficult to avoid as it continues to happen, you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Quite frankly, you are too sensitive. You take things way too personally. No one else reacts to jokes/friendly sarcasm/etc like you do. We do not have this problem with anyone else and I don't think it is fair that we must use a different set of standards/words/tones when dealing with you. Everyone is dealt with in the same fashion. You are the only one who has reacted in such a way.
Have you considered the possibility, just the possibility, that it could also be because I'm the only one who endures to take the confrontation rather than just give up and run away?

Much as I criticise the mods, that should suggest something positive to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
Look, let me (myself and I; I do not speak for the rest of the staff) make a deal with you, okay? I understand that my joke made you upset and I am sorry that it did, because that was not my intent. I also do not think that the best way to handle it was to taunt me with it. That being said, I'm will watch what I say in the future when dealing with sensitive and heated topics. I am outspoken and blunt, with a very sarcastic sense of humor, but I'm willing to temper myself when dealing with potentially volatile situations.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Nine
In return, I ask that you not take everything so seriously. Being hypersensitive to the point where a joke like the one I made is construed to be a personal attack doesn't really help anything. In the same vein, please do not try to take justice into your own hands and try to 'make a point', as this isn't the right way to do so.
Please believe me when I say that I resort to "taking justice into my own hands" only because I see no other recourse. You think I enjoy being universally hated by the mods? I don't. But I frankly find fair and open discussion without fear of random deletion by the mods and with fair rules that are applied equally to everyone to be a more important issue than Star Wars.

That's the point here: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who does watch the watchers? I'm frequently left with the impression that nobody does, and that the mods care more about basking in their own autority and prove their relative power by making snide remarks at posters and then get away with it because they're mods and think themselves above the rules. That's not a stab at you or anyone in particular, but it's what I've been wondering for some time, and that's a problem. I sense The Source voicing something similar (please forgive me if I'm mistaken), and it worries me. I visit a number of other of other boards and forums, and this is the only one where I have ever seen it to that degree. It's also the only board where people have called me overly sensitive. Food for thought?


"It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built" - Kreia

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