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Old 04-26-2008, 08:21 AM   #7
stoffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Since I was quite specific in pointing out that we're discussing behavior (rather than characteristics) I'm struggling to understand how "ad hominem" is relevant. No disparaging comments or personal attacks have been made about any of the individuals participating in that thread.
Whether or not it was intended as such it was seen as offensive by several other readers of that thread. Looking up the meaning of "dishonest" in a dictionary (disposed to lie, cheat, or steal; not worthy of trust or belief; fraudulent) I don't find it hard to see why it could be perceived as such.

At any rate it was a generally aimed nudge, not a warning to a particular person, intended to remind people that you can discuss a subject without discussing the moral or mental character of the person you are discussing it with. The quoted phrase was what we've received reports about as being considered specifically offensive by several other members.

I've got no agenda other than to try to have people act in a civil manner and treat each other with basic respect when they post on the SWK forums. I've got no personal grudges or indeed any close involvement with the participants in that thread. I was merely responding to reports that the tone in a thread was starting to slide in the wrong direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
If there is a problem with using specific terminology, or "big words" as you called them, then perhaps it would be best to amend the forum rules so that no further infractions occur.
There is nothing in the rules saying that someone may belittle others as long as they aren't blunt and direct about it. I fail to see what you are referring to here. A sugar coated insult is still an insult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I appreciate you sharing your interpretation of the term, as well as your opinion about how you feel it has been applied here.
It was an example of the type of indirect language I was speaking of in the previous paragraph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
I acknowledge that SWK staff has decided to include the term "intellectually dishonest" in its list of "forbidden words".
Please don't quote me out of context and ascribe new meaning to what I was writing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Only that a heavy dose of "opinion" was necessary to wiggle around to a point where the accusation of a forum rules violation could be made.
If there was a violation of the forum rules a warning would have been edited into the offending post(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
However, the tone of the note suggests that Stoffe has decided (based on her opinion) that the comment was an ad hominem.
Several members of the forum reported that the thread was starting to get personal. My personal opinion formed from reading through the reported posts was that it was not unreasonable to interpret it as such. But that there was nothing in sufficient violation of the rules to warrant any other action than a quick nudge to remind people not to steer further in that direction. Sometimes it's better to be proactive than reactive with these matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
She's also decided (based on her opinion) that I was somehow disingenuous with my comments.
Given that the post was not aimed at you, but was rather a general nudge aimed at everyone participating in the thread, I fail to see how you would arrive at that conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
And finally she's decided (based on her opinion) that term used means what she's decided (based on her opinion) it's going to mean.
I am not a native English speaker, I can only go by the meaning of words and phrases that can be found dictionaries, and as explained by people who do speak English. Several other, presumably english speaking, members found its use offensive enough to warrant reporting or mentioning.

This is not about microanalyzing particular words and phrases though. It's about a general tone when posting, and being civil to fellow members when discussing topics that people have heated opinions about. If the use of specific language has been misunderstood or misinterpreted, fair enough, but that's how other readers of the thread perceived it.


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