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Old 04-26-2008, 02:09 PM   #8
Achilles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Whether or not it was intended as such it was seen as offensive by several other readers of that thread. Looking up the meaning of "dishonest" in a dictionary (disposed to lie, cheat, or steal; not worthy of trust or belief; fraudulent) I don't find it hard to see why it could be perceived as such.
You're focusing on the "word" dishonest, rather than the term "intellectual dishonesty". Yes, the word "dishonest" could be taken as a personal slight, especially if directed at an individual. The term "intellectual dishonesty" is a bit of stretch, especially since I was emphatic that I was addressing general behavior rather than an individual's characteristics. That was my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
At any rate it was a generally aimed nudge, not a warning to a particular person, intended to remind people that you can discuss a subject without discussing the moral or mental character of the person you are discussing it with.
Except the term I was using did neither, hence my confusion over the need for the post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
The quoted phrase was what we've received reports about as being considered specifically offensive by several other members.
I understand that. All I was saying is that since the perceived offense stemmed from a misunderstanding about what was actually being said, I would hope that matter would be up for discussion rather than decided arbitrarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
I've got no agenda other than to try to have people act in a civil manner and treat each other with basic respect when they post on the SWK forums. I've got no personal grudges or indeed any close involvement with the participants in that thread. I was merely responding to reports that the tone in a thread was starting to slide in the wrong direction.
Understood. No one can fault you for doing your job

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
There is nothing in the rules saying that someone may belittle others as long as they aren't blunt and direct about it. I fail to see what you are referring to here. A sugar coated insult is still an insult.
Except that this isn't what happened here. I get that someone misunderstood what was being said and took offense, but no insult (sugar coated or otherwise) was made. I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge that a misunderstanding occurred and move on, however if you're going to insist that I said something that I didn't, then I'm going to be inclined to continue defending myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
It was an example of the type of indirect language I was speaking of in the previous paragraph.
I hope I addressed this adequately above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Please don't quote me out of context and ascribe new meaning to what I was writing.
I've been "asked" in the past not to use specific terms because members of the staff didn't like them. If I jumped the gun in assuming that this was happening a second time, then I apologize for doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
If there was a violation of the forum rules a warning would have been edited into the offending post(s).
And if a potential violation of the forum rules hadn't been perceived then a "nudge" wouldn't have been required

Somebody somewhere felt that some rule was in danger of being violated. I was merely trying to figure out which one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Several members of the forum reported that the thread was starting to get personal. My personal opinion formed from reading through the reported posts was that it was not unreasonable to interpret it as such. But that there was nothing in sufficient violation of the rules to warrant any other action than a quick nudge to remind people not to steer further in that direction. Sometimes it's better to be proactive than reactive with these matters.
Indeed. But the thread wasn't getting personal. I have no doubt one or more people felt it was (or else we wouldn't be here ), however my concern was that some opinions were going to be considered more important than others when discussing whether or not an actual infraction took place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
Given that the post was not aimed at you, but was rather a general nudge aimed at everyone participating in the thread, I fail to see how you would arrive at that conclusion.
Regardless of whether you intended to or not, you did mischaracterize my statements by arbitrarily assigning an intention to that term. Considering that I was being very cautious to specify that I was not addressing individuals, your comment that this was happening undermined my efforts not to offend.

Perhaps a more specific nudge would have helped to single out the individual(s) you were concerned about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
I am not a native English speaker, I can only go by the meaning of words and phrases that can be found dictionaries, and as explained by people who do speak English. Several other, presumably english speaking, members found its use offensive enough to warrant reporting or mentioning.
Fair enough. For whatever it's worth, I've always thought your English is excellent

Understanding that people sometimes don't understand the meaning of terms in their own language, hopefully you can see that I was questioning the rationale of the argument being made rather than your understanding of the language (though clearly now I can see how you were only going off what you were told, rather than making a leap in reasoning yourself. My apologies).

From my perspective, this issue occurred because someone took issue with the word "banana". You're trying to address the perceived issue, while I'm trying to figure out how someone got offended over the use of the word "banana" (and why the staff is issuing nudges about not offending people). I hope that helps to clarify my position on the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
This is not about microanalyzing particular words and phrases though. It's about a general tone when posting, and being civil to fellow members when discussing topics that people have heated opinions about. If the use of specific language has been misunderstood or misinterpreted, fair enough, but that's how other readers of the thread perceived it.
I understand. I can only take responsibility for what I post. I cannot take responsibility for how others perceive what I say. Most of the people that I converse with in Kavar's are educated people, so I've never felt as though I've needed to "dumb down" my language in order to be understood. My hope is that if I say something or use a term that is unfamiliar that they would either try to learn about the term themselves or ask me what I meant rather than jump to conclusions.

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond and clarify your position. Take care, Stoffe
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