Thread: Gay Marriage
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:57 PM   #48
True_Avery
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,002
Quote:
Originally Posted by GarfieldJL
Then you have no problem with calling it something other than marriage?
What if someone was to say that autistic people could not marry because it was against their religion, because they weren't equal to other people, etc? That they are inferior, or unnatural and shouldn't be allowed to have children or marry? That marriage was a sacred institution, and allowing such people to marry would harm it?

I'm not attacking you personally. I'm just giving you a hypothetical for you to think on.

Is it man and woman? Yes, but now it is something personal to you. What if someone explained to you that because of the way you were born, you shouldn't be allowed the same privileges, equal rights, etc of other people?

I've read your posts, and you have a strong support for yourself and anyone in a remotely similar situation. If someone were to walk up to you and tell you that you aren't allowed to be married and must this sign for a "civil partnership" instead...

You would rage to high heaven. Don't deny that you wouldn't. You would pop on the forum and give us conservative blogs and news stories to support the fact that you thought the liberals and left-wing propagandists are stealing your rights.

Welcome to my side of this.

I'm not claiming this is conservative. I am not claiming this is liberal, left wing, right wing, etc. I personally believe this issue is a neutral based on the person and their beliefs.

And you, as a person, are discriminating against me and so many others. Discriminating.

dis⋅crim⋅i⋅nate
to make a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person or thing belongs rather than according to actual merit; show partiality

I had a gay couple marry in my back yard for the short time it was legal. They have been together for 15 years, and only now have they been allowed the same privileges as you. Since Prop 8, that was taken from them.

What you don't understand. No, what you choose to be ignorant of is that "gays" and "lesbians" and "homosexuals" are not just titles to be thrown around on an internet forum. They are real people. They are people with hopes, dreams, loves, cares and they want to be treated like human beings equal to you.

Not a big deal you say? Man and a woman you say? Religion you say? The title of the union you say?

The title is everything. For a lot of us, the privileges that come along with the name are trivial compared to the title they give you.

Married.

Why not just call it something else?

Because the title is everything. Creating something separate but equal is against the foundations of this country. It is discrimination and oppression by the government.

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And all this about kids? Marriage is not to make kids. Marriage is a union in which two people share what they have. Nowhere in marriage does it state that the two people are required to have children. There are people who get married who never have kids. Are they going against the foundations of religion? No, they are living out their lives as a married couple. Sorry, but this is not the middle east.

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Religion?

Do not twist words to fit your argument. This country has separation from church and state in effect for a reason. You have freedom to practice religion, but you do not have freedom to bring your religion into politics or other people's lives, which is exactly what you are doing.

You are pushing your religious, superstitious beliefs on other people's lives. Plain and simple.

Marriage is religious you say?

No, not in America. Marriage is most certainly not a religious institution, otherwise atheists would not be allowed to marry. You do not, I repeat, do not need a church, priest, etc to get married. That is all for show. You are married when you sign the legally binding paper that says you are married. You an get married in a court house if you'd like.

You walk in, sign in, sit down, say a few vows, then sign the paper. No dress, no bible, no priest.

That is Marriage in the United States of America. This is not the dark ages. This is no the Vatican. This is not a religion ruled land. This is a land that was built on the concept of separation of church and state for reasons exactly like this.

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You cannot say "marriage is sacred" and then turn around and ask "why is marriage so sacred to you?" Your answer is right in front of your face. The answer is in your own beliefs and situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarfieldJL
Because it is trying to indoctrinate children into a particular lifestyle, which is an abusive use of their role as an authority figure.
Then take slavery, women's rights, and every other movement out of history class because they are obviously trying to force their beliefs on you. Take science, evolution, medicine, and every single other class out of school for teaching us about life.

It isn't a life style for a lot of us, so stop treating it like it is. Or, I can continue to judge you based on your autism.

Because obviously that was a lifestyle choice.

The fact you call it a lifestyle choice through and through shows just how ignorant you are on the subject, and how far you've gone to close yourself off from the people you discriminate against.

Would you like to know the truth?

For some, yes, it is a lifestyle option. Know what the people said who I know have chosen to change rather than live out a "normal" life? The lesbians I have met claim to have switched due to being molested, raped, beaten, abused, etc. and cannot ever feel comfortable around a man.

It is not a "hey, I think I'll be gay now!" It is less of a "lifestyle" choice for some, and more of a defense mechanism against atrocities that have been committed against them.

There are some who I know have, suddenly one day for one reason or another, fall for someone of the same gender and live out a happy life.

And there are some, like myself, who were not forced or suddenly "changed" by an event. Some of us were just quite simply born this way, and have been who we are from the earliest day we can remember. And before you vomit up "Well, you don't know what you want" let me explain to you that I have only, ever, found girls attractive and only get that pecular feeling from girls. It is not lying to myself. I could not change if I wanted.

And if it was a choice. A lifestyle choice as you so ignorantly state, then why. WHY do we stay this way willingly? Why stay in the lifestyle when it is ripping your family apart? Why continue when your parents disown you? Why continue when you are jumped and beaten after school? Why continue when you are ridiculed, looked down upon, told you're going to hell?

Why continue when you put a gun to your head or pick up a bottle of pills? If it is a choice. A complete, and utter choice then why is the main cause of death in homosexuals suicide?

I knew a man who killed himself when his father disowned him. He couldn't handle the stress of having his family be disgusted with him, and took his own life even though he was trying his hardest to be "normal". If the stress with that intense. That strong and that consuming, then why did he willingly choose to be what he was.

So instead of making an uninformed statement about a group of people, why don't you do some face-to-face research instead of hiding behind your bible, parents, and superstitious beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarfieldJL
indoctrinate children
Typical statement from someone who is ignorant of the situation.

We are not out to "turn" children gay. Guess what? We can't. It is not something you put into a book and then suddenly children say "I wanna be gay now!"

We teach kids about black history so they will be accepting of African Americans. We teach women's rights because we want women to be treated equally and not like dirt. We teach war so that the future generation may avoid it themselves. We teach people not to touch fire because it burns.

We do not want to teach your children how to be gay. We want to teach them that we exist, and we are humans like you and should be treated as such.

Personally, I think more should be in the classroom about autistic, and other conditions people are born with or obtain through certain circumstances so that when they grow up, the kids are less likely to make fun of them, criticize them, pick on them, etc.

Education can and has led to acceptance of different peoples. If you think trying to teach kids that we exist, we will always be here, and that we want to be treated like people is trying to indoctrinate them and "turn" them due to our "agenda"...

Then I don't know what to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GarfieldJL
Well, actually the US could, the FLDS can believe that all they want, but the fact is the same sex marriage thing can open the door to their lifestyle of polygamy being legitimized.
They said the same thing about inter-racial marriages.

They were still man and woman you say?

This is a consenting marriage by two men or women of legal age. This is not a dog and a person. This is not a child and a person. The only difference is a person wanting to marry a person of legal age.

The blatant flaw with your argument is that being homosexual is not against the law. Polygamy and pedophilia is illegal in these united states. They both have tried to get their own rights, but failed due to the fact that what they want to do is illegal. If being homosexual was illegal, than your argument would hold water. But it isn't. Homosexual relationships are not illegal. Being that you let us live and love in this country, the least you could do is stop treating us like lesser beings than yourself and give us the same privileges that you have.

Stop creating slippery slopes out of thin air to justify the fact you have no actual argument based on anything but superstition and ignorance towards the people you are taking privileges from.

As a person who has claimed to be different with a condition, and thus treated different... I would have assumed you would not wish to discriminate against others. That, as a person who believes you should be treated equally under the law and socially, you would treat others with the same desire.

It is hypocrisy.

And before you pull some more religious text onto me, read this carefully before proceeding:

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” -Jesus

Last edited by True_Avery; 02-06-2009 at 05:35 AM. Reason: ad hominem remarks removed
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