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Old 03-27-2009, 12:47 AM   #12
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Join Date: May 2002
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Originally Posted by obi View Post
(A) Well, Jesus did exist. - just a simple resource, but I have more. Some Bible-based, others not.
Bible-based resources are dismissed. Circular arguments. I see a lot of evidence for place-names, etc. in the link above which are described in NT texts, but I didn't see the evidence for Jesus the alleged christ. It was a bit wordy, so perhaps you could quote the most convincing of the "evidences" listed there.

(B) List me a few of the contradictions in the Gospels, and I will explain them of the best of my ability.
Exodus 10:15 "thou shalt not steal" vs. Exodus 3:22 "and ye shall spoil the Egyptians." Its okay to steal as long as it isn't from believers?

Deuteronomy 6:3 "The lord our god is one lord." vs. Genesis 1:26 "and god said, let us make man in our image." Is there one or more than one. Archaeological evidence points to a pantheon of gods as the Canaanite culture evolved into a Hebrew culture -the wife of Yahweh was Asherah according to archaeological evidence.

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of god." vs. Job 1:1 "There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright." -Was Job a perfect sinner?

Matthew 1:16 "and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus." vs. Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli." Was Jesus the alleged christ's paternal grandfather Jacob or Heli?

I'm sure you'll have some creative hermeneutics that attempt to answer these contradictions, but there are dozens more of these and one wonders why there isn't a clear, consistent message in a text that is claimed to be the work of an omniscient, omnipotent deity.

(C) This is true, none of the Gospels were actually written during the time of Christ, but if a jew from Nazi Germany wrote a book this year about it, that doesn't mean it is false.
This is a weak analogy. Indeed, if no Jew wrote about the Holocaust that lived during the time (and if no other person wrote of the Holocaust), then we would be right to question whether it occurred and we would be right to excavate the sites claimed so many years later by people who didn't witness it to verify the claim. Extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence. It isn't just the case that Christians and Jews didn't write about Jesus during the time he was alive -it is the case that no one apparently wrote about Jesus during the time of his life. Indeed, the earliest writings are at least a full generation later.

There is no good reason to believe that Jesus, as depicted in biblical mythology, was a real person.

(D) The NT writers and Jesus himself were aware of the other religions, and even spoke of them in the scriptures: 1 John 2:18 "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. " And 2 John 1:7 "Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."
This isn't meaningful information.

(E) I agree to an extent, saying he is real "because I say so" is not a good argument. However, it does need to be taken into consideration that the Bible (may) be God's word, because that is what we are ultimately debating.
No. It doesn't. There is no good reason to accept that biblical mythology is the word of a god. Particularly when it is so clearly flawed, full of bad advice, and indicative of an evil and degenerate deity (which, not coincidentally, appears to have all the characteristics of evil human degenerates who wipe out entire cultures and ethnic groups.

There is no more good reason to believe that the Christian bible is divinely inspired or written than there is to believe the same about the Popul Vuh or any of the Vedic or Buddhist scriptures I cited above.

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