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Old 05-19-2009, 04:48 PM   #53
Qui-Gon Glenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Eclipse View Post
Okay, for one, Jesus was not a "cult leader." Two, He did not perform sorcery or magic.
Huh? What do you call transmutation? Magic happens at Catholic churches every Sunday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Eclipse
The christian community can and does verify its claims that Jesus existed. Where have you been?

There is tons of proof supporting Jesus' existence and that he was the messiah and that he performed miracles. SD Nihil, or whatever (I probably got your name wrong) you say that we christians have "what we consider proof," and before you say that science or whatever has proof. We don't consider it proof, it IS proof.
Fantastic! I am anxious for a link, a peer-reviewed publication, or something, anything tangible, to support this absurd claim.
Also, you have contradicted yourself substantially, if you recognize the similarity of "miracle" and "magic".... er, how are they different again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EW
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil
Again that is my position.
Unfortunately, it is an incorrect position.

Just because you believe/don't believe doesn't change the facts. "Jesus Existed" - it's a normative claim.
Bingo. SD Nihil, fence-sitting is for watching the match, not for being in it. You need to pick a side in this debate, and find evidence, or keep sitting on the fence and stay out of the fray.

Holy Blood, Holy Grail - the longest book full of names I have ever forced myself to finish - still produced nothing concrete about Jesus, only about Jesus' fanatical followers. As many have noted in this thread, there is no genuine article to substantiate the claim that Jesus was.

Falling back on "faith" is what angers both non-believers and believers alike. Faith is something you keep, and hold as a hope, something that may be, and you can believe it to be true if you like; we are all entitled to deceive ourselves as much as we like. Believing in God does not prevent people from thinking critically, and many devout believers of the pantheon can recognize that proof is lacking, can admit to it, and finally do not need it - that is the place of faith. It supplants the need for proof.
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