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Old 06-28-2010, 10:18 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Seikan View Post
1. yes, but after it he can leave peacefully, the Czerka is faar worst than kreia when it come to the wookies, or other non human species, really FAAR worst, and they aren't even siths, the mandalorian too, are worst, like hunting wookies in the shadowlands for pleasure, Kreia have used him, but well, he already wanted to kill mira, so Kreia just keep him on live against his will but, what she ask him to do, isnt really a big problem to Hanrrar, and after killing mira he can do what he want, no more life debt, or he loose once again, and she have just forced him to live a couple days-weeks more, is that that bad as to call her malevolent?
Yeah, that is bad enough. Kreia doesn't give a **** about Hanharr, she just wants another pawn. It's never even made clear why she wants him to fight Mira; Kreia's just playing games with herself.

2. Yes she love to manipulate, but well, Atton eventually fall in love with the exile, so I don't think Atton would really regret to have stayed in the crew, so in that the only bad thing is the way she have done it, but the action itself, isn't really comparable to what many other siths have ever done.
Yes it freaking is. Kreia used the Force to rip information out of Atton's head, for the sake of personal curiosity. Not to mention, an accidental right coming from it doesn't justify a wrong.

3. Well would you consider someone evil because he sent Stalin, Pinochet, Franco, a SS officer, or any other guy like this, to a certain death, or to cannibals, or whatever? Tobin, is the one that tried to kill the ebon hawk crew because he was ally with the Siths, we tried under vaklu orders to take control of Onderon, making a civil war, i'm not specially a partisan of the death penalty because the risk of killing innocents, but when the crime is clear, and really serious, I don't think bit is inhuman to do so, maybe kreia's reasons weren't noble, but once again the action itself isn't that bad
I'm not even going to go into whether it was right to kill Tobin; the main issue here is that Kreia is sending him back to the Ravager where he will extremely slowly be drained of his life energy by Nihilus. Who the hell deserves that?

4. For me it is more a depressive act, that an evil act, she don't do it to kill anyone, that's not her purpose, her purpose is to be free of the force, so it's more a crazy plan that an evil plan, it would be evil if she intended to do it to kill any one in the galaxy, so for me she's not evil, maybe she have harsh and cruel methods, she's old, crazy and depressed, but surely not malevolent.
It was a malevolent plan toward the Force; Kreia somehow got it into her head that the Force controls everything and that people can't make their own decisions with it still functioning. And critically, while it was not malevolent toward anyone in the galaxy, it was still completely without regard for the quintillions of people in the galaxy. Kreia's plan was to "save" the galaxy by completely obliterating the use of the Force, and she doesn't give a **** how many innocent people this kills.

What Kreia does, though, does often not come up to malevolence as much as it does simply having no regard for anyone else. Kreia never helps anyone except to help herself, and she hates the Jedi and Sith so much that she'd risk killing absolutely everyone to get back at them.

And you didn't answer about visas
I didn't see what she had to do with the rest of the post.

On their own purpose maybe not, but they *were* trying to harm someone, all the game, make us think about how cruel it is to cut someone from the force, that it's as cutting him from his 5 senses, when the exile talk about it she say things as "such a cruel thing", so I think the exile would prefer to loose her eyes than the force, but the jedi master on their own beliefs decided that she must be cutted from the force, without trying to understand her, without looking if there were any other way.
We have no reason to assume that they didn't try to think of something else to do. They took the most reasonable course of action in regards to what they knew.

You can say there is not physical harm, but is like a rape, there isn't really physical harm, but it can destroy someone's life, and we know how the exile has just being hanging around the galaxy without purpose, or anything. There more, if you listen for all what Kreia say after killing them, you can understand her action, and i'm not sure if she would kill them if they haven't try to cut the exile's bond with the force.
Give me a break. Kreia's a Sith. She hates the Jedi. The entire plot she's set into motion since the game's beginning is to get revenge on them and the Sith. Kreia may say that she wanted to "beat them without killing them" by converting them to her beliefs, but like any Sith Lord, she's perfectly willing to kill them if they resist. That's the whole point of what happened on Dantooine, for her - she wanted to see how the Jedi would react to the Exile, and if they reacted the way she didn't want, she'd kill them.

And well she didn't try to negotiate, but them neither, they just took their lightsabers, when she appears, i don't think they would mind of killing her.
They drew their lightsabers because she attacked first with her telekinesis. Any sane man would draw his weapon for self-defense in such a situation. The fact that they just stood there while Kreia monologued at them indicates that they were waiting for her to make the first move. More to the point, Kreia was a Sith Lord, and they had every reason to think that she intended to kill them, which is exactly what happened. And again, Kreia was the one who knew everything about what was going on, and like Vader right before the ending duel in Episode III, her "my way or the highway" attitude gave the other side no real choice. If she had tried to compromise, so might the Jedi.

Well what I say proofs that kreia don't have the random cruelty, she never do anything cruel without purpose, when so do something cruel is really because she had to.
My statement you quoted is talking about the Sith Order in general, not every single individual Sith. And again, Kreia only has to do evil things as long as she thinks she has to in order to carry out her plans.

Radical organization or not, they were jedi masters, forming part of the jedi order, and as far as we know they are jedi, not siths.
They were a small group of renegades who acted without the approval or knowledge of the entire rest of the Order; ergo, they are not representative of the Jedi Order beyond themselves.

Well, Speak for you, Atris wanted even to kill her
Balderdash, Atris wanted her imprisoned because she didn't trust that the Exile wouldn't go back to Revan, which was not unjustified, since the Exile was literally the only Jedi who followed Revan that returned home after.

and she really blames the exile for have gone to the mandalorian wars, and Vrook too, they blame the exile for have joined the mandalorian wars, maybe not all the masters, but some of them does blame her for that, and think she fall into the dark side but act for her beliefs and try to save innocents, what the council refuse to do
I repeat, they exiled the Exile because of her unusual Force status potentially having unpredictable and dangerous effects on the Order at a dangerous point in history, as per the confrontation between the Exile and them on Dantooine near the end of the game. And also I repeat, the Jedi Council supported Revan in the Mandalorian Wars, as per the KotOR comic series.

As Carth I think, have said, if it was under the council oders, that the jedi have joined the mandalorian wars, maybe there wouldn't have been any jedi civil war.
The Jedi Civil War didn't have anything to do with the Council's decisions. Revan's Jedi defeated the Mandalorians, and they could have just returned home. Instead, Revan decided to form a Sith Empire and declare war on the Republic. Revan started the war.

And still, they kip blaming the jedi who go fight in the mandalorian
wars, blaming them for all the sith problems it were after it,
Revan was to blame for that because he's the one who started spreading the dark side throughout his Jedi followers.

Well if for you retaining for fall in love with padme, is "control" his emotions, and not "suppress" them.. then let's say "control", and of course not being allowed to love, is not asking you to supress your emotions, just control them Tell me how do you control the fact of falling in love (other way than supress your feelings, because if you control the felling of love that you have, then it means you're in love ^^)
My head is spinning.

Well, if he wouldn't have his marriage secret, we could have talk of it with obi wan, or yoda, and they could have helped him, instead of it, the only one with whom he could talk about it, was palpatine, and we all know how bad it was. If the jedi have give him support, with his relation, and helped him, to stay in the way, he wouldn't have cut windu's hand, because he "needs" (or at least he thinks so) palpatine, but would it be the same, if the jedi have offered their' support?
The Jedi wouldn't have been able to support Anakin anymore than he himself was able to. It still would have boiled down to him constantly having visions of her death and him being crazy-afraid that he wouldn't be able to stop it, and Palpatine stepping in. It still would have just been up to Anakin and his own fear, and Palpatine's promises..

And Bastilla return into the light side, because she's in love with revan, so the "unnecessarily attachment" as you say save her from the dark side.
That is only one possible path. Bastila can be redeemed by other means. True, the love path is easier, but the fact remains that, more often than not, Jedi having these attachments is more dangerous than it's worth.

You should speak more with jolee, i think like him that the jedi shouldn't learn to suppress their emotions, to don't love, to don't get angry, etc,
For the last bloody time, the Jedi aren't trained to suppress or ignore emotions, and they are not told to not love. Also, if you seriously need to be told why Jedi should not get angry, then you need to watch the movies again.

To give an example other that the pedophile priest that you just ignored, are you an anti sex catholic partisan? do you think that for avoiding unwanted pregnancy, or virus you should forbid people to having sex for other reasons than the reproduction? knowing that the young would often just not listen at their parents and now we see young of 11 years not virgin, girl who just hook with all their friends to pass the time etc.(that's the way the jedi deal with the emotions)

Or would you instead try to speak with them, prevent them for the risk, invent the condoms, and give the people the tool to avoid the risk without forbid them to have sex. For example the parents, instead of forbid the children for having sex, talk with them about it, the risk, giving the girl more confidence to be able to say no, when they don't want to, and not let them learn about it in po** movies, having sex hide from their parents, etc...What do you think would be the best solution?
I am not going to debate with you about real-world issues that you try to pass off as a parallel to something in Star Wars. Find someone else if you want to talk about your problems with religion, or whatever.

"Grant Allen [...] had written a book about the Evolution of the Idea of God. [...] it would be much more interesting if God wrote a book about the evolution of the idea of Grant Allen." ~ G. K. Chesterton, The Everlasting Man

Last edited by TKA-001; 06-28-2010 at 10:27 AM.
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