Originally Posted by Tommycat
You missed the parenthesis of the previous line. IF, even after they have made all reasonable efforts to secure their firearms(Locked in a properly installed safe when not in use), they have their firearms stolen three times THEN they are placed on the permanently denied list. It happened to a friend of mine. His gun safe was broken free from the foundation by the use of a nearby bulldozer. You would have him do 10 years hard labor for someone else wrapping a chain around his gun safe? Again, it's about REASONABLE EFFORT. It's not opening a loophole, in fact it's closing the current loophole. As it stands now, the guy simply reports that his guns were stolen from under his bed, and he's free to go buy more. Oh hey he bought more AK's. whoops stolen again. darn thieves. Buy more AK's Whoops stolen again. It's like they know he has them under his bed or something. In your haste to dismiss my post as not compromising, you must have missed this section.
So that covered all of your reasoning.
1) Straw buyers cannot simply hand off their purchases to a buyer and claim their firearms were stolen without having to show an extreme effort was made to get them.
2) IF you buy a gun and it is used in a crime, YOU are liable. Which means that YOU MUST REPORT IT STOLEN BEFORE IT IS USED IN A CRIME! So I have no idea where you get off with that tangent about not reporting it stolen.
3) They cannot just sell it on the street and keep the money, as that sale HAS TO GO THROUGH AN FFL. That prevents people from saying, "Yeah I sold that to a dude I met at the gun show. What was his name? I dunno."
Of course this could all be a moot point anyway as the 3d printing technology gets better. You could print your own gun. Then there's relatively inexpensive CNC milling machines that could easily be adapted to make firearm frames(which are the only parts that have to go through an FFL). Ain't technology grand?
Um, life in the colonies wasn't exactly all roses and sunshine. We had to pay taxes on goods from England as well as having high tariffs on our goods. And look at the third amendment. It was put there because British troops could come into your home, eat your crops, slaughter your livestock and even have their way with your wife and daughter, and you couldn't do anything about it. While taxation gets the primary focus, it wasn't the only thing. And it was taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. The colonies had NO SAY in Parliament. And they kept raising the taxes on things in the colonies, but we had no say in the matter.
Gun ownership does not cause massacres. The worst massacres in history were caused by means other than firearms. Bath Michigan. 38 children killed in a school. No gun was used. Weapon of choice? Dynamite. Oklahoma city. 168 souls, including 19 under 6. Weapon of choice? explosives(home made). And of course New York 9/11. 3000+ lost. Not a gun in sight. weapon of choice? Aircraft. Crazy people intent on killing massive numbers of people are far less concerned with the weapon they need than how to do the most damage.
Valets in Vegas had firearms? I never noticed that. Maybe it's because I don't let my knickers get all knotted because someone has a firearm. Or maybe it's because I rarely valet my car. But I would understand it, as they are sometimes in vehicles that are very expensive, and often have to run out to a darkened lot with the keys to that car in their hands.
And the whole "Arsenal" argument is just plain silly. A rifle is more accurate than a pistol. Plain and simple. A rifle also has less overspray than a shotgun. There are a ton of people who like to collect things. Some like firearms that look a certain way.
1 AUTOMATIC WEAPONS ARE REALLY HARD TO GET.
2 IF YOU HAVE BEEN APPROVED BY THE FEDS TO GET ONE THEY CAN RAID YOUR HOME AT ANY TIME.
3 YOU CANNOT BUY ONE THAT WAS REGISTERED AFTER 1 MAY 1986 UNLESS YOU ARE LAW ENFORCEMENT
4 THERE HAS BEEN ONE CRIME COMMITTED WITH A LEGALLY OBTAINED AUTOMATIC WEAPON BY A CIVILIAN SINCE 1934
(2 if you include the cop)
there... maybe NOW people will see it.
you give the list of the lost, which in itself is a sad read and their loss will always be remembered, but in america there were 12,664 murders in 2011. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.. that is ONE year, one SINGLE year as opposed to in the uk there were 550 murders and a very small percentage were gun related.
i will never be convinced gun ownership is a good idea and arming those who are not professionals, like valet parking attendants or even school teachers is just "typically american" as we say, amusing really.. so uncivilised.
guns were made for one thing, no matter how you dress it up or try to endlessly justify it, they are made for one purpose and the statistics show this.
There is a huge gun problem in america, you cannot deny this, the whole world see's it and shakes their head and with organisations like the NRA, they just make it easier for criminals or those who have a mental break down to gain the means to kill.
one of the posters mentioned that all massacres or most were from stolen guns, the killing at that primary school, the man used his mothers guns (yes, she had an arsenal, ridiculous) after killing her with them. The Batman shootings, i believe the man there actually owned most of his guns, saw a documentary on it on the BBC, even though he had failed x amount of the restrictions etc he still managed to buy fire arms.
lets face it, there are 2-4 massacres in america every year with no decline in the past 40-50 years involving guns, each of which have atleast 10 fatalities minimum.. that should be enough to have some form of ban or referendum or what have you..
the NRA say "guns don't kill people, people do" that s very true, but very ignorant at the same time.. guns were made for killing, it is what they are made for and sold for, wrap it up as self defence if you wish, but if you kill in self defence, you still have killed. People will always try to kill one another, the best thing to do is try to minimize the casualty list.