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Old 03-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #57
Fallen Guardian
@Fallen Guardian
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Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
So you all agree that Revan went darkside for a noble reason of protecting the galaxy? He did evil, without required for the innocent to protect the innocent? That is what Kreia and the others pretty much implied he did in the simplest form.
Without required for the innocent to protect the innocent? What does that mean? (I really just don't understand what that means, no hostility intended).

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
You also also seem to agree that the Exile was the stronger of the two Jedi, that is what Kreia says too. Correct?
It really depends on the situation. Also, while I dispute the idea that Kreia had any reason to lie about Revan's intentions, the power of her prize pupil (the Exile is the prized pupil, just to make everything clear) does indeed seem like something she'd like to lie about.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Well then, what is your problem with the way Revan is portrayed in TOR? Because that is exactly how they portray him. He is a pawn to the emperor, but at the same time Revan is scarifying himself to hold the emperor in check. Then he runs off and does some very grey things in his attempt to protect the Republic. So your problem isn’t what he did in TOR because you have no problem with him being a pawn in KotOR or Kreia’s stories where he did the exact same thing. Is your only problem with Revan in TOR, that Revan is in TOR and not a KotOR 3? Sure sounds like it.
My problem with his portrayal boils down to three things, in essence.

1. The fact they threw out the idea Revan's fall was a combination of his own choice to save the galaxy and his newfound lack of tolerance for those he found to be weak (a result of his observance of Mandalorians during the Wars).

2. They ignored any different outcomes of the two KotOR games when dealing with Revan and the Exile, which I find pretty poor because one of the major selling points of the KotOR series was the ability to choose your path. In KotOR II they made sure to at least factor in the most basic of your choices in KotOR I - whether you went light of dark and were male or female. But they didn't even try to take into account choices from the previous games with TOR, which for a game that's supposed to be KotOR IV, V, and VI (KotOR being a series where choice is an important factor) is pretty awful.

3. This isn't exactly a concrete reason, due to the like/dislike of TOR but I'll throw it in anyway. TOR, overall, really doesn't look or feel much like the KotOR games. Yet it boldly claims to be its successor. It seems to me they threw Revan in there to have a remote tie to the games they left behind.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Kreia was a wonderfully written character, one of the best NPC I have ever seen in a game, but what made her great was also what makes her a terrible source. She was a great lair and manipulator, what makes someone a great lair and manipulator is when they sprinkle enough truth in the lies that makes it difficult to know when the truth ends and the lie begins.
It's not always easy, but it's pretty reasonable to assume for some things that Kreia didn't lie, mainly just because she stands to gain nothing from lying about them. Also, just to point this out, Kreia was a liar, not a lair. If she was a lair the other Sith Lords would have gone inside her to plot their schemes and recuperate from battle.

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Even at least some of what pushed Anakin to the darkside was for noble reasons, he wanted to save Padme. However, it isn’t always your intentions that make someone good or bad, it is how you reach your goals.

So you all agree that Revan went darkside for a noble reason of protecting the galaxy? He did evil, without required for the innocent to protect the innocent? Revan may have at first wanted to save the galaxy, but once he started down that path... Oh yeah Yoda quote don't matter in a Star Wars thread.
Again, without required for the innocent to protect the innocent?

Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
Personally, I just think people (NPC) are putting a noble spin on Revan’s fall. Yes, Revan was trying to save the galaxy, however I don’t think he/she went darkside to save it. Since that pretty much goes against everything Star Wars stands for. Between the Mandalorian War, searching for star maps and then finding The Star Forge, Revan went darkside. It may have started as a noble undertaking, but “Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
There are several people who would like to put a noble spin on Revan's fall, Mical being one of them. But there are also several people who wouldn't want to spin Revan's fall to be more noble in any way (and arguably, those who wouldn't are some of the most reliable sources on Revan and his intentions). Do you think HK-47 would want to embellish about Revan's fall to put it in a positive light? I'm sure if HK had known Revan's fall wasn't noble in the slightest he wouldn't attempt to put a "noble spin" on it. And then there's GO-TO, who's a realist and who's moral ambiguity is an essential piece of his character. He likes facts, straight up. He wouldn't try to sell a more noble Revan to the Exile.

The truly fallen cannot return to the light. If someone "falls" and "returns," they never really, truly fell.

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