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Old 03-31-2013, 12:56 PM   #59
machievelli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urluckyday View Post
I understand why people look at this as hypocritical, and I understand how this fits in with certain people's disdain for the US (not saying you specifically)...but I always tell people that make that argument to consider this: imagine if no one, including the US, had a nuclear arsenal except for a country like North Korea/Iran who had been secretly building them.

Yes, I know that the US and many of its allies have a huge nuclear arsenal...but let's keep in mind that this isn't the same country back when it almost came to blows with the Soviets. You can't tell me that the United States hasn't handled nuclear supremacy with the responsibility that a superpower should have. We don't flaunt our weapons in military parades or even make mention of nuking people if we don't get our way.

The technology exists, and there is nothing to stop that anymore. If it was possible, I wish humanity could rewind and never even conceived of nuclear technology, but that can't happen. Yes it may be a little bit hypocritical, but at the same time, the world is and should feel much safer knowing that a country like the United States has nuclear supremacy instead of all the other less enticing options (that includes places like Israel).
Have you ever read The Sum of all Fears by Clancy? This is an author who actually was interrogated by the CIA because of things he used in the Hunt For Red October, because they were supposed to be American Military secrets. He did what i do before he writes; he researched all of the unclassified publications, and merely used them as his basis for the equipment he wrote about. The basis of the book (Not the movie) was that the Israelis had deployed nukes to stop Syrian advances before cooler heads prevailed. The bomb used later in the book to attack Denver was one that had not been removed from the aircraft carrying it, but had not been armed when that plane went down, and was later recovered by a terrorist group who funded reclaiming the material for an attack on the US.

Like a lot of his later work, it was a nuclear cliff hanger; the Russians, according to a spy of our own, claims that the Soviets had lost control of several small nukes, and splinter groups there might use them against the US to derail the collapse of the Soviet regime; the Americans believe this, and since the president is supposed to have been in Denver, his National Security Adviser suggests it was a plot to kill him. This causes the US to go to Defcon 3.

But as Clancy points out, when the Military goes to that level, some units, specifically in regions where they might be attacked, automatically go to Defcon 4, which authorizes them to protect themselves from any perceived attack. This leads the captain of an Ohio class nuclear missile boat to begin preparing for launch, and the Sierra class Attack boat that has actually been able to track of him to attack the American boat.

Clany's character Jack Ryan is the new Director of the CIA, and knowing all that has been discovered that the President is ignoring, breaks into the Hotline communications between the Russians and the President, tell all of this to the Russians, and also reports that there is enough evidence that it was actually a terrorist attack. As Ryan is being arrested, the Russians report that they have ordered the stand down of all their military.

But he has one more thing to do. With the president finally listening to him, and the men behind the attack already in custody, the president decides to pay the Arabs back because one of the terrorists claimed that a high level cleric in Qom was backing them. He proposes to nuke the city, and since Ryan as DCIA can be the second man in the two man rule (Someone high up in the government must agree with the President about firing the missile) Ryan instead tells the SAC general that the President is too distraught to make that decision, and that he should ignore any further attempt. This is prescient, as when the captured terrorists are told that we had fired that missile, they boast that their lie had assured the Arab World would all join together with us as their only real enemy forever.

Israel has been a member without firing off even a test bomb, since the mid 60s. If you need to know why, look at the simple demographics; less than 4 million people surrounded by nations with over one hundred million people who have screamed 'death to Israel' since the late 40s. As much as the US's enemies claim Israel survives only because of American support, remember that Israel has it's own weapons industry for every weapon they might need. They have this for a very simple reason. They can't guarantee that an outside supplier will keep selling to them. When the oil nations protested European support, threatening to cut oil sales, they backed down. When the US started airlifting replacement equipment into Israel after the Russians had already done the same in the 70s during the Yom Kippur war, they carried out that threat.

So Israel developed their own ships from Italian designs, their own aircraft from French designs, and their own tanks from their own design.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

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