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Old 12-05-2009, 06:26 PM   #1
Qui-Gon Glenn
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2010 and the dissolving USA

My mother is quite heavy into new age mysticism and such, and has heard from several "ascended masters" as well as several seers and mediums, that in 2010 the US economy will disolve, that the country will become literally divided into 6 separate chunks, that.... cats and dogs will live together in harmony.... pandemonium essentially.

I take my mother's ideas with a grain of salt, as I take anyone's ideas. However, I stumbled upon this article today, taken from the WSJ, that is telling me the same things that my mother said, just from a completely different, and many would say more credible, perspective.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

Any thoughts?
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:30 PM   #2
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It makes a great premise for some installment in the Battlefront series, but nothing more.
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:35 PM   #3
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I was thinking more CoD 3.... but really, the guy is no dummy, and economically I think he is dead on.
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Old 12-05-2009, 06:54 PM   #4
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I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with his whole premise...I'll give that the U.S. economy is not in good shape...but the Great Depression didn't destroy the United States any more than the current economy will.

I would think that for the United States to dissolve would take some other major political or social issues such as those behind the American Civil War of the 1860s and I just don't see it happening...especially not into 6 sections. Mexico is in no position to take over anything, and I fail to see how Alaska would end up under Russian control or how any part of the country would end up under control over any other foreign power without acts of war.

To surmise..my opinion is that he's full of sound and fury signifying nothing.


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Old 12-05-2009, 07:00 PM   #5
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Unless this guy's name is Hari Seldon I think he's just blowing air and making waves hoping for his 15 minutes of fame.


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Old 12-05-2009, 09:08 PM   #6
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Unless this guy's name is Hari Seldon I think he's just blowing air and making waves hoping for his 15 minutes of fame.
Haha, love the reference. My turn:

Does this mean that Cthulhu has finally awakened?


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Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 12-05-2009, 09:20 PM   #7
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Does this mean that Cthulhu has finally awakened?
I think you may have misread it, he says the United States are going to dissolve, not the faces of the entire world's population.


Let's kill ourselves.
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:27 PM   #8
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Well now....that's a real possibilty. Not so sure that it will happen though, but come to think of it, we've had two civil wars in the past because of economic's and political rivalries. And regrettably, we could be in for another if at least half the nation doesn't get back on it's economic toes (so to speak) and our current government just keeps screwing around; pulling the same crap they've been doing lately with this economy.


But nothing is a sure bet, yet anything can happen.


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Old 12-05-2009, 08:27 PM   #9
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California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence.
Ni hao, bra.


Let's kill ourselves.
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Old 12-05-2009, 08:51 PM   #10
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Haha, no.


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Old 12-05-2009, 09:06 PM   #11
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wall street journal article;didn't read



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Old 12-05-2009, 11:22 PM   #12
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This guy, Panarin, sounds like he is obsessed (possibly to the point orgasm) with USA's demise.

Pre-emptive notice to the mods: I am feeling a bit snarky and sarcastic. You may have to smack me around a little.

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Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats.


Ah. A "Killer-Green-Bud" feller, eh? Cheech and Chong would have a blast.

Quote:
But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin,
WHAT?! Kremlin???!!! You mean this guy is working for King K.Rool--the jerk who tried to steal Donkey Kong's banana hoard? ZOMG!

Quote:
which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.
Really now? You know what? It's also been speculated that China, India, and other affluent countries are about to take the helm of "first power nation" in the world. So, Russia has some serious competition if that is true. You can make many an outlandish speculation, not that it really means much until it materializes in some form.

[Meanwhile]: Zangief must be really happy as he yells "Mother Russia" after a match of pounding some poor Marvel rival or fellow Capcom icon into the ground. [/sarcasm]

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A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.
Seriously now? I had no idea.

Quote:
"There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.
Hmm. Wreaks of ambivalence, but whatever.

Funny, all the economic sources I have come across (and some table scraps by the Trends Research Institute) say that while they see the economy's double dip coming up on us in our recession hard (estimate hitting Jan.-Feb. once the holiday 'boost' effect wears off) it doesn't seem to mean much. Even as bleak as it is right now, I do not see an utter collapse and downfall in the near term. I see a painful and slow year ahead of us thereafter its onset.

Quote:
Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.
Mmmmmmmmmmm, nope. Wishful thinking. I'll agree those factors are contributory to our recession, but each have a counteracting effect that nullifies them significantly.

Quote:
Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."

Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.

Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.

The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."
This all speaks for itself. I'll let that marinate in here like a fart.

Skipping over some...


Quote:
California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Lolwut? I actually LIVE in CA. Granted it's so minced it might as well be a foreign country...where's all the heavy chinese influence, exactly? It actually looks more heavy Mexican influence in some areas. Others are just diced up, and you have rich people all over with their domiciles and little communities.

The north, is a bunch of redwood dwelling artists and such. Small economy, but very beautiful places to camp. South is cities and such except up in the hills. Lots of bums, loads of Mexicans, and a lot of blacks around Compton and Riverside.

The coast: meh, it's a mixture of retired folks and young people last I checked. Haven't been out there in few years. I suppose in 3-5 years time there could be a mass influx of Asians that I don't know about.

Central north to south...pretty spread out, unless he's talking about Sacramento (Hi everyone!--though I'm a ways off out in the 'booneys') and San Francisco. Even then...I don't see what he's talking about...

All in all, CA might be its own 'republic' but TBH unless certain industries pick up around here, we really aren't going to be much of anything. In fact Michigan has been playing commercials to corporations thinking about relocating somewhere else to get out of silicon valley.

Well professor, looks like you don't know as much as you think you do about CA.

(EDIT: Oh, and the sierra mountains bordering NV have their own little economy that seems quite recession resistant, BTW. So unless it's in the nearby valley areas from north to south which seem quite unpopulated and undeveloped at this time, I *still* don't see where there is a little china about to take California over...Maybe hiding out in southern Nevada's missile silos, and 100-200+yr old mines with all their unstable dynamite?)...

Quote:
Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence.
Hmm. Comments anyone? mimartin? Sam D.? S.D. Nihil? Tobias Reiper?
Somehow this rings false to me. I last visited Texas in 2001, so it could have become heavily Mexican in that time period. I thought Mexico wasn't in much a position to take anything over?

Quote:
Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.
Mmmmm, bull****.

Quote:
"It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.
More romancing the idea of Alaska being under Russian control again? Dude, hey, not that there's really anything wrong with whatever gets you off, but you seriously need to keep it behind closed doors, and I mean literally.

You know what, I'll read the rest of the article later. I'm late for karaoke right now!!! However I *will* say that was quite the lawlfest!

Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 12-05-2009 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:32 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Hmm. Comments anyone? mimartin? Sam D.? S.D. Nihil? Tobias Reiper?
Somehow this rings false to me. I last visited Texas in 2001, so it could have become heavily Mexican in that time period. I thought Mexico wasn't in much a position to take anything over?
The article writer obliviously never meet a Texan. It would take a lot of dead Texans for something like this to happen and heritage means nothing. I have a lot of friends that are of Hispanic decent and they are just as proud to be a Texan. More likely, it would be Mexico under Austin’s influence.


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Old 12-06-2009, 12:07 AM   #14
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He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."
Shocking.

Odd how all of the secessionist views that must be rife in America (considering it's going to fall in less than a year, apparently) have been so well concealed from the media. It reads more like some grasping hope for the return to prominence of Russia, or perhaps one might argue the Communist state, based on the ideas of Chinese eminence.

I'm sure there is sime immensely complex and altogether incomprehensible economic rationale behind all this, but I'd love to know why each 'Republic' would be likely to first fall under anyone's external control, second why those particular countries? As said by others, I can't see Mexico staging any kind of invasion sweeping through Texas and all of those other states, or persuading people to vote to join them...and the idea of a European America is pretty good too - Turkey is seen as a borderline European state: I wonder what that makes the Eastern US?

Though, if Russia gets Alaska back, can we have the Thirteen Colonies back?


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Old 12-06-2009, 01:27 AM   #15
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While I don't agree with his theory, I do think that America is headed towards a civil war that will be far worse than our first one. Our country is actively consumed by two inconsistent ideologies constantly fed to us by our new media and our two political parties/collectives of parasites.

What is likely to happen is a civil war between the most rural states (dominated by "conservatives") and the most urban states (dominated by "liberals"). Who would win? That's up in the air. The Government and Military would be split in half so each side would get an equal portion of the troops, so it'd come down to whether or not the "left" would be hypocritical enough to take up firearms against the "right". Also, it depends on how unified each side is, and since the "left" generally professes itself to have more diversity than the "right" it would be more susceptible to internal division.

There is also the possibility of military intervention from other world powers such as China, Russia, and the European Union, all of which would likely assist the "left" as that faction would be more willing to accept foreign demands.

I do not agree with the time this guy has set up. While I do not believe in the 2012 Theories, that year would be the most likely for a civil war to begin as it would likely be a race between President Obama and Sarah Palin. Either individual achieving victory would be the catalyst for a complete split in this Republic.


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Old 12-06-2009, 01:54 AM   #16
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While I don't agree with his theory, I do think that America is headed towards a civil war that will be far worse than our first one. Our country is actively consumed by two inconsistent ideologies constantly fed to us by our new media and our two political parties/collectives of parasites.
America has always been dominated by two inconsistent ideologies, smear campaigns and mudslinging have existed since the Election of 1796' in the States; however, that didn't lead to civil wars every 10 years. The losers always screamed apocalypse while the winners slowly lost popularity.

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What is likely to happen is a civil war between the most rural states (dominated by "conservatives") and the most urban states (dominated by "liberals"). Who would win? That's up in the air. The Government and Military would be split in half so each side would get an equal portion of the troops, so it'd come down to whether or not the "left" would be hypocritical enough to take up firearms against the "right". Also, it depends on how unified each side is, and since the "left" generally professes itself to have more diversity than the "right" it would be more susceptible to internal division.
Isn't America like 90% urban now? Your also over-generalizing.

Quote:
There is also the possibility of military intervention from other world powers such as China, Russia, and the European Union, all of which would likely assist the "left" as that faction would be more willing to accept foreign demands.
Funny, usually it takes a dictator to maintain stability after revolution.

Quote:
I do not agree with the time this guy has set up. While I do not believe in the 2012 Theories, that year would be the most likely for a civil war to begin as it would likely be a race between President Obama and Sarah Palin. Either individual achieving victory would be the catalyst for a complete split in this Republic.
I'm surprised, people would give up their homes, lives, stability, and their child's safety all because they lost an election? I don't think the cultural differences nor the motives are present for a civil war.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:05 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger View Post
While I don't agree with his theory, I do think that America is headed towards a civil war that will be far worse than our first one. Our country is actively consumed by two inconsistent ideologies constantly fed to us by our new media and our two political parties/collectives of parasites.

What is likely to happen is a civil war between the most rural states (dominated by "conservatives") and the most urban states (dominated by "liberals"). Who would win? That's up in the air. The Government and Military would be split in half so each side would get an equal portion of the troops, so it'd come down to whether or not the "left" would be hypocritical enough to take up firearms against the "right". Also, it depends on how unified each side is, and since the "left" generally professes itself to have more diversity than the "right" it would be more susceptible to internal division.

There is also the possibility of military intervention from other world powers such as China, Russia, and the European Union, all of which would likely assist the "left" as that faction would be more willing to accept foreign demands.

I do not agree with the time this guy has set up. While I do not believe in the 2012 Theories, that year would be the most likely for a civil war to begin as it would likely be a race between President Obama and Sarah Palin. Either individual achieving victory would be the catalyst for a complete split in this Republic.
Laughable. Pakistan has a much stronger chance of being split by a civil war than the United States has, and Pakistan is still very formidable in its own right.

With its many enemies, enormous nuclear arsenal, rampant nationalism and international reach, the United States cannot possibly afford a civil war in the near future. It's probably hard to see that in America, but it isn't so hard when you're living outside, and where the American Right and Left are only two sides of the same coin. Regardless of which side controls the government, America largely remains the same.

Also, any nations with two stones to rub together for a diplomatic thinktank will know better than to mess with an America in turmoil. It can backfire easily.

All in all, if a 2012 happens, it being caused by an American Civil War is very unlikely. Hell, the stories of both Modern Warfare games are much more credible than that.


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Old 12-06-2009, 03:55 AM   #18
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OK, Karaoke was dead, so I'm back.

Some of what I skipped over:
Quote:
At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.
Oh man, this loon bag actually has a fan following. More propaganda.

Quote:
He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.
Reeeeeally? And, uh, I suppose the foreign powers will all be on the same side, riiiiiight? I think if they align with the infighting left before it turns on itself, the fracture will amplify and it will be a world war on our soil which would ruin the very thing they wish to take over. Or if the infighting already occurred, they would come in and fight/subjugate the inhabitants AFTER they got done fighting each other outside the U.S.A. Which assumes the Government inside U.S.A. isn't manipulatively still alive and functioning. Destroying that would be, as the article admitted, to nobody's economic advantage.

Interestingly enough, I don't see our friend has taken any of that into account or that more likely they all would just bide their time carefully and let a nation or two most friendly to U.S.A. go in and do the dirty work of helping piece the nation back together. Especially considering if economically it is in their best interests. I'm sure they'd all embolden and get a little more cocky.

Either that or the nation most pissed off enough at us comes to seize its assets, which is most likely be be China. It is my understanding that while their economy is a modern equiv of the industrial revolution (or so my penpal ladyfriend in Shenzen City says) it is still infatile, going slow and fragile like it has a bad stomach blockage--in an economic sense. Certainly correct me if I'm wrong on that and China is roaring and ready for world domination.

In the meantime I'll be shoveling snow and petting my wookiee.

Quote:
Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."
Why do we even have to wait that long? I think the most gullible of American people are already waking up to that reality and it isn't even Christmas yet.

Quote:
the article, emphasis mine
The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.

For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.
Really now? You think that's nervous laughter? Why?

Oh yes your views are indeed being listened to very carefully, professor. Not in the way you think.

Put another way, I think this guy could be a real comedian.

Quote:
the article, emphasis mine

The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.
Really? Well, let's see now... is America or has America ever been, the U.S.S.R.?

Butt-Head: Uhh, No.
Beavis: Thank you, Drive Thru. Meh-heheh-heh.

Besides, even if we are close to some kind of collapse, where is this tremendous imminent upheval going to start in America? This revolution? Seriously, I'm asking in real earnest. I look around me and I see upset people, but they aren't clawing at everything as though we're about to have a violent showdown. Too apathetic.

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Originally Posted by SW01 View Post
Odd how all of the secessionist views that must be rife in America (considering it's going to fall in less than a year, apparently) have been so well concealed from the media.
Yeah I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. Especially considering how nosy and biased to one polarity or the other that the media is in the U.S. Wish I could afford *THAT* kind of protective concealment of information.

Quote:
It reads more like some grasping hope for the return to prominence of Russia, or perhaps one might argue the Communist state, based on the ideas of Chinese eminence.
Which raises several questions alone on how China will pick it up--I wonder what they have to say about this. Besides, wouldn't that pose an obstacle to Russia "getting its piece of land back"?

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Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger View Post
While I don't agree with his theory, I do think that America is headed towards a civil war that will be far worse than our first one. Our country is actively consumed by two inconsistent ideologies constantly fed to us by our new media and our two political parties/collectives of parasites.
It would have to be a long time from now: people are rather docile, currently. In actuality I think the real division is between the people, the wildcards and the elite. If the elite on both 'sides' are working in tandem (think about it: same government, 2 sides of the same coin as it is now), then what it really boils down to is how those in charge will best liquidate their assets and leave the rest of us out in the cold to fend for ourselves.

It would make no sense to square off in an actual combatant war unless things got so horribly bad it was about to fall apart anyways.

Quote:
What is likely to happen is a civil war between the most rural states (dominated by "conservatives") and the most urban states (dominated by "liberals"). Who would win? That's up in the air. The Government and Military would be split in half so each side would get an equal portion of the troops, so it'd come down to whether or not the "left" would be hypocritical enough to take up firearms against the "right". Also, it depends on how unified each side is, and since the "left" generally professes itself to have more diversity than the "right" it would be more susceptible to internal division.
Well, that is a setup for failure if a foreign entity were to try to even infiltrate it and ally itself, let alone 2 or 3. Seeing as how Mexicans and Natives want to reclaim land, they aren't likely to trust another overlord government to 'share' it with them. They'd dead-weight, or possibly even turn on the new entity. The rest, well, they'd just put along for the ride but similarly deadweight when it was their turn to help the foreign entity. Bleed them dry.

More likely, the elite would be working together hidden away behind the scenes and would just declare martial law like a dictatorship. Their elite squadron at their command.

Quote:
There is also the possibility of military intervention from other world powers such as China, Russia, and the European Union, all of which would likely assist the "left" as that faction would be more willing to accept foreign demands.
Actually, no it would be a state of martial law with our supposedly "split" government all around, with interlopers, defectors, multiple state splits, and infighting within the parties and classes. The elite of the "sides" would come to a grudging agreement first on top of the heads of just others who don't fit one clique or another. Devil with silver tongue, offer the little people rewards and incentive to join them. Or more likely 'offers they can't refuse' if you catch my drift.

Foreign aid would then maybe occur as their means of settling the problem if.F* there was no other way to bring about order. The rest can hide out in the woods. Possibly to be hunted down later for their crimes against society of evasion of serfdom and daring try to live independent of the now dictatorship government. The Elite meanwhile resting atop the underclass like the despicable fat-cats they are and the veil fallen.

*:Geometry or Mathematical acronym for conditional staement beginning "If, and ONLY if."


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I do not agree with the time this guy has set up. While I do not believe in the 2012 Theories, that year would be the most likely for a civil war to begin as it would likely be a race between President Obama and Sarah Palin. Either individual achieving victory would be the catalyst for a complete split in this Republic.
It would probably just be a civil split between East and West U.S.A.--which then I can see an N.A.U. forming much as I'd hate to admit it in those circumstances. Mexico and Canada being absorbed into it. Possibly more of Central America too.


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Old 12-06-2009, 05:03 AM   #19
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Yeah, I thought his style might not win too many points. He does come off a wee bit smug. Could also be the tool of a writer that the WSJ employed.

I think civil war is a remote, distant possibility at best. What I do fear is the wacky economy most Americans think is doing well when the stock market has a good day. Our dollar is nearing valuelessness.
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:10 AM   #20
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Our dollar is nearing valuelessness.
No it isn't. At it's worst, it's worth about half as much as it was. The value of money in Zimbabwe is nothing, with 14,000,000% inflation. Even at 10% inflation, the US dollar is still quite strong.


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Old 12-06-2009, 04:37 PM   #21
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No it isn't. At it's worst, it's worth about half as much as it was. The value of money in Zimbabwe is nothing, with 14,000,000% inflation. Even at 10% inflation, the US dollar is still quite strong.
Facts are good. Nearing perhaps was not the correct word, but you may accept/prefer "approaching" "on the road" "plummeting". These are perhaps better descriptives, but not that different really. It is over-alarmist to say nearing at this time, so I concede that point.

As for naysaying, why not naysay? It is the American thing to do, the most American, to speak out when things are screwy. It is something the founders expected us to do, more often and much louder than we have. Complacency has been bred by too many years of easy success, success often garnered for contemporary gains at the cost of the "future" - our present.

If you think that the US is still the pre-eminent power, and that the position is unshakeable, you are a fanboy.
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Old 12-06-2009, 11:03 PM   #22
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Facts are good. Nearing perhaps was not the correct word, but you may accept/prefer "approaching" "on the road" "plummeting". These are perhaps better descriptives, but not that different really. It is over-alarmist to say nearing at this time, so I concede that point.
No, it really isn't. Listen to some non-marxist economists. The US dollar, while not as strong as it has been in the past, is still doing quite well. And it it not "plummeting", nor is it "on the road", and neither is it "approaching". Many countries still court both US favor and money, that along with US military, social, and economic power and dominance ensure that the US currency will not just "drop off".

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If you think that the US is still the pre-eminent power, and that the position is unshakeable, you are a fanboy.
I can readily think one, and not the other. The US is still a pre-eminent world power, one with which only a few others can hope or even attempt to compare with. Of course the position is shakeable, no position isn't. But just because it is, does not mean that those who are close have the desire to take it. And even if they wanted to, it is more probable that what would result is a multi-polar world, likely of China-US, then China-Russia-US, then China-India-Russia-US, and then China-EU-India-Russia-US.


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Old 12-06-2009, 05:33 AM   #23
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Oh wow, a Russian says that the US will come to an end...I've heard this bedtime story before...try the Cold War.

Seriously though, no way the US just falls apart like that....let's sell more newspapers by having those kinds of stories...just another story that appeals to the fears...best way to attract an audience...



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Old 12-06-2009, 12:59 PM   #24
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^^Thank you, I've always been annoyed by the nay-sayers around where I live whining about how 'weak' the Dollar has become.

Anyway, @LOH: Don't buy it. And, as a right-ist I shudder when I think of Sarah Palin in line for the presidency.. but that's for another thread.


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Old 12-06-2009, 03:40 PM   #25
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One thing that has happened since the civil war is that, at least from where I live, people are much less likely to identify strongly with their state as opposed to the federal government. Don't get me wrong, I really like Texas and I love shoving how awesome it is into other state's faces, but I don't feel a political affiliation with it in the same way I do with the Fed.

Because of that, I'd say it would be extremely unlikely that the US should break up into minor states any time soon. People in America might have their (perhaps overblown) differences, but one thing is certain: virtually all of us like being American. It would take something truly shocking to break that.


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Old 12-06-2009, 05:23 PM   #26
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Um....no. Won't happen in 2010, 2012, or any other year anytime soon.


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Old 12-06-2009, 05:50 PM   #27
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@Qui_Gon_Glenn: o rly?


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Old 01-06-2010, 01:56 AM   #28
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@Qui_Gon_Glenn: o rly?
Your post, and your link, provide nothing in the way of argument. Surely, you can do better. GDP is a nice economists measurement, but it is a macro measurement, and leaves out a lot of important details.

@Web Rider - thank you for understanding the logical operator AND in my sentence. I threw that in their to see who might bite, and either to my dismay or great joy, most everyone understood how that works.

Not much to add, I am quite gloomy these days, and I'd rather not share it too much.

For those that are interested, I can provide a link to the site my mother got her side of this story from. I will not put it in this post - it is a damned pay site, pay-per-divination! That deserves a thread all its own :facepalm:
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:35 AM   #29
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I have a high doubt this will happen. Look, just because i predict that The middle East with all throw aside their differences ( already an impossibility) and that they'll all join to destroy israel (no ones that good, not anymore), does not mean that will happen. If, the united states were to seperate, some outer country would have to have been involved. And what the russian guy said, I have a good feeling which one. Alaska would not go to russia. If any russian force even stepped on that land, we'd more than likely to one last join together to make sure russia goes back to the dark ages and doesn't even think about attacking america, mainland or not. And if i'm wrong, The alaskans are BA enough to hold their own land. Hawaii would more than likely got to japan though. Regrettably, they have to small a population to hold a big enough military force to take on japan. Besides, where'd they get their spam from if they're their own country. But, hey, if this happens (which it won't) you can come over and watch me eat my shoe. No lie, i'll post my address and when ya'll get here, I'll eat my shoe.


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Old 01-11-2010, 05:23 PM   #30
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Fact is that this guy is making a prediction on a event that is bound to occur one day at the rate our country is going, and just making a bold prediction for the year. While it is unlikely that anything close to that will happen in the coming year, I am a firm believer that unless our country takes a little more accountability for ourselves before we worry about fixing the rest of the world, that 10 to 20 years in the future our country will reach a point simular to that of the Roman Empire's end.

Only problem is that the Roman Empire lasted thousands of years, and the United States Empire will have made it a pathetic few centuries.

But this is just my thoughts...


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Old 01-12-2010, 07:50 AM   #31
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Someone mind telling me why the US is destined to go to hell?
Preferably without references to religious apocalypses.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:58 AM   #32
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Someone mind telling me why the US is destined to go to hell?
Preferably without references to religious apocalypses.
But, but, but, Murph, in the Bible it specifically states "And in the year 2010, the Great Nation of America, blessed by God, will be led to it's utter destruction by the Anti-Christ... Barack Obama". Have you not read that part of the Bible?



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Old 01-12-2010, 04:38 PM   #33
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But, but, but, Murph, in the Bible it specifically states "And in the year 2010, the Great Nation of America, blessed by God, will be led to it's utter destruction by the Anti-Christ... Barack Obama". Have you not read that part of the Bible?
Hey, hey, hey.....! I think that must have been in one of those banned book versions (like Lilith or the Gnostic Gospels, etc....).


@Murph......well, given that hell is a religious reference of sorts......you ask the impossible. Serioiusly, though, depends on what one means by hell. If it's just a metaphor for falling fast and hard from a postion of prominence, then it's not inevitable. Perhaps just a slow but certain decline before diappearing into obscurity (often the fate of many an "empire") or the mists of time (or whatever metaphor you'd like).


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Old 01-12-2010, 06:15 PM   #34
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^^^So then what are you saying specifically about self accountability? You still didn't answer his question, which I now echo.

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^Sorry. I can't support the isolationist view as a solution to our problems.
Well, fine, but how much more can we afford to ship overseas in terms of jobs? We've already given up technical and manufacturing, and service category is well on the way--if it won't be given to machines first. The uneven economic playfield allows corporations (regardless of public or private) to foothold their positions over smaller businesses and effectively lock them out of competition. Rather than people who are self reliant, independent, and sustaining, we may soon have public corporations to which we are all dependent upon.

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As the world's only true superpower, it's our responsibility to be involved in the global community for better or for worse. No country can survive without being involved with the rest of society. This was proved after WWI.
OK I do agree there about the involvement aspect, but I would cut this off when outsourcing begins to wreak havoc, but of course nobody cared about consequences of that for the past 16 years.

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Someone mind telling me why the US is destined to go to hell?
Preferably without references to religious apocalypses.
The writer of the article is having a fit that Alaska is still a part of America in 2009 going into 2010--so he set up projections on his computerized simulations to "prove" this will happen. Personally I think his obsession with USA falling is masking his fit he's having over Alaska not yet being part of Russia once again.

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But, but, but, Murph, in the Bible it specifically states "And in the year 2010, the Great Nation of America, blessed by God, will be led to it's utter destruction by the Anti-Christ... Barack Obama". Have you not read that part of the Bible?
Pictures of the text or it never happened.
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:32 PM   #35
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:03 AM   #36
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Hey, whoa guys. Ehh, I think most forumites here are under no illusions about a position and its solidity.

So far as America not being #1 in the world anymore: everything hangs in the balance and nothing is for sure about that, *yet*. Moreover I don't quite see how U.S.A. somehow sliding down even to #5 in the world would necessarily mean we give up chunks of our land. Besides, if there is one thing I notice even about American underachievers, they may get shaken down but they aren't contentious for no reason and are persistent and tenacious enough to find a way back up. Sure, Americans are apathetic right now but it wouldn't take too much for too long before we started back on track and gained momentum behind it.

*Are* we on a decline? Sure. We're in trouble right now and only an idiot would deny that. In several years it'll pick back up again and the worst of the recession will be behind us. It may take 20 or 30 years for things to come back completely. By then we quite possibly may not be #1, but I seriously doubt USA will crash and burn because of it.

China IMO is biding their time and getting all it can to try to tip the world currency to theirs and away from the U.S.A. I find that as a challenge to be met, not a fate to be dreaded.

Isn't it rather amusing meanwhile that people like this professor have nothing to do but obsess all day about our demise?
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Old 12-10-2009, 12:08 AM   #37
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Hrmph. I grew up in Texas. The idea of Texas under Mexican rule is absolutely laughable. Three words come to mind. "Remember The Alamo!" I could see Texas as it's own nation. I can see Texas as part of the (remaining) US. But Texas as part of Mexico? FAT CHANCE! Too many Texans died to free themselves from Mexico. I mean really this guy must have never met a Texan in his life. They are more than proud of the state.


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Old 12-11-2009, 01:24 AM   #38
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Funny thing about the idea of TX under Mexico's "wing" is that Mexico is so dysfuntional that perhaps it ought to be the other way around. I think the guy is right about America heading into a world of economic hurt, but the rest of it sounds a bit like a KGB man's wet dream. Of course, if Russia got AK, you can be pretty sure they'd have no problem drilling the oil. The rest of the world be damned.....


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Old 12-11-2009, 07:03 PM   #39
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Funny thing about the idea of TX under Mexico's "wing" is that Mexico is so dysfuntional that perhaps it ought to be the other way around. I think the guy is right about America heading into a world of economic hurt, but the rest of it sounds a bit like a KGB man's wet dream. Of course, if Russia got AK, you can be pretty sure they'd have no problem drilling the oil. The rest of the world be damned.....

I agree, especially the "economic hurt"...no doubt as far as that's concerned, only I think it could eventually lead to at least a insurrection if anything. But I really think the guy is just blowing smoke up our butt's or trying to start a lot of controversy amongst us here in the U.S.A. for the most part, or at least he thinks he is.

It's obvious that the rest of the info that he presents is bogus, take the map for instance: I think he's played the board game of RISK one friggin' too many times in his lifetime over there, I'd say his map looks like a mickey mouse version of the real board game.

Example:

Look familar? (Btw, I call 1 and 4 *purifier shakes dice in hand* Muhahahhahahahaha! World Domination! Who dares to tread on me!)



Seriously though, I don't think our economic situation is going to get any better as long as we are under the current elective (people) government.
Which could seriously piss some people off and cause an uprising or something, there has been talk of it in certain social circles and even on the internet at that; which is the most idiotic thing to do IMO, it's not like the government dosen't check for that sort of thing with their search database computers.

Anyway, that dosen't mean anything though, just people talking and complaining I guess. Better yet, like I said before:

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Old 12-12-2009, 12:07 AM   #40
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Look familar? (Btw, I call 1 and 4 *purifier shakes dice in hand* Muhahahhahahahaha! World Domination! Who dares to tread on me!)
You, sir, play a Risky Game.


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