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Old 02-21-2013, 07:59 AM   #1
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Game Update 2.0: Scum and Villainy

Update 2.0, which has been called "Scum and Villainy", is on its way and is on the PST for testing right now. From the list of changes (subject to change, of course), we can conclude there will be a lot of it. Say "bye bye!" to a few skills and "hello!" to a whole bunch of new ones, there will be class changes and modifications to certain systems and certain aspects of the game.

We'll also be getting some new toys: a new operation (holy hell, it looks awesome), new hard mode FPs (some of the early FPs are being "hardmoded", such as Cademimu, Athiss and Mandalorian Raiders) and of course, the level cap is being increased.

Here is a compact page for 2.0 info and some (nice looking) screenshots.

Also, inb4 mim complaining about Cheap Shot.


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Old 02-21-2013, 09:47 AM   #2
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sniper nerf **** that.


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Old 02-21-2013, 11:36 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Miltiades View Post
Also, inb4 mim complaining about Cheap Shot.
Well one of my only dps moves gets cut out...of course I am going to complain. Take this away but give me something for energy management....I have no problem with energy I have problems killing stuff when dps has gold fever and leave my little healer to fend for herself. I can't heal more dead.


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Old 02-21-2013, 12:41 PM   #4
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switched to a pvp server started a class as sith warrior. should be interesting.


Battle is a pure form of expression. It is heart and discipline, reduced to movement and motion. In battle, the words are swept away, giving way to actions-- mercy, sacrifice, anger, fear. These are pure moments of expression.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:11 PM   #5
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Aw! I love my cheap shot! It's my only really good damage ability! waaaaaa!

Might have to respec after I see what's changed.


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Old 02-21-2013, 03:20 PM   #6
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http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/

Something to play with thanks to Jolgalev.

Not as upset about cheap shot after playing around with this.


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Old 02-21-2013, 03:39 PM   #7
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i dont like the added ability 'see stealth' or whatever, if PVP was better and more fun than 3-4 little areas it would be pretty sweet, i dont think any enemies in PVE land are stealth-moded. useless.


Battle is a pure form of expression. It is heart and discipline, reduced to movement and motion. In battle, the words are swept away, giving way to actions-- mercy, sacrifice, anger, fear. These are pure moments of expression.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:55 PM   #8
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i dont like the added ability 'see stealth' or whatever, if PVP was better and more fun than 3-4 little areas it would be pretty sweet, i dont think any enemies in PVE land are stealth-moded. useless.
There are more than a few mobs in Operations that are stealthed. Commando with stealth scanners are pretty useful in EC.


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Old 02-21-2013, 03:58 PM   #9
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i can never get into ops, that group finder thing doesn't work.


Battle is a pure form of expression. It is heart and discipline, reduced to movement and motion. In battle, the words are swept away, giving way to actions-- mercy, sacrifice, anger, fear. These are pure moments of expression.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:05 PM   #10
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Where'd the info on who/what is being nerfed come from?




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Old 02-21-2013, 07:53 PM   #11
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http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...67&postcount=1

From here, the changelog that was posted up for the Public Test Server.


Also...

Quote:
Vanguard: A new ability, Shoulder Cannon, has been added. Shoulder Cannon loads missiles over time which can be fired at an enemy target within 10 meters, depleting 1 charge with each missile launched. When all missiles have been depleted, the ability goes on cooldown for 1.5 minutes.
Awww, yeah.

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Old 02-22-2013, 01:08 AM   #12
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I know this is a dumb reason, but I am not excited for this because of the terrible new armor designs. They just don't look like high level gear, and are definitely the worst and most boring looking out of all the current end game gear (basically rakata and black hole). The smuggler ones don't even look new, they just look like a combination of current gear. I'm not sure I would even change my look because I like the Revan armor, but new gear is what motivates me the most in endgame play and it's silly when there's no loot to look forward to.


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Old 02-22-2013, 10:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
I know this is a dumb reason, but I am not excited for this because of the terrible new armor designs. They just don't look like high level gear, and are definitely the worst and most boring looking out of all the current end game gear (basically rakata and black hole). The smuggler ones don't even look new, they just look like a combination of current gear. I'm not sure I would even change my look because I like the Revan armor, but new gear is what motivates me the most in endgame play and it's silly when there's no loot to look forward to.
The new armor designs won't affect how I'll feel about the update terribly much, but I'm with you that they're horrible (mostly). Then again, I've felt that about most endgame gear in this game. They either look boring and stupid or just too eccentric for my taste.


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Old 02-22-2013, 04:27 AM   #14
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Noooooo... Tumult

Some good, some bad. Some are remained to be seen how it turns out in practice (like the planetary comms).
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:45 AM   #15
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Yah, I've got a lot of commendations from different planets, altogether more than the 400 cap currently shown on PTS for planetary comms. I've got over 100 each of Coruscant and Belsavis commendations due to running Esseles for social points and dailies on Belsavis.

I also keep bumping up against the 1,000 cap for daily commendations. I wonder if BioWare will put in an exchange system like they did for PvP Centurion and Champion commendations.


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Old 02-22-2013, 10:50 AM   #16
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Shadow gear always looks terrible, so looks of gear has never be an incentive for me to continue playing. Hell even my Knight is still wearing the same orange gear she got around level 15 and the lightsaber she built herself.

That said I may have to get the shadow female maternity wear looking armor in 2.0.


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Old 02-23-2013, 04:35 PM   #17
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@OP: Not looking forward to cheap shot being nerfed for sniper...>_>

*reads about shoulder cannon for vanguards*

May not be exactly what I was looking for, but:

Vile approves!


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Old 02-23-2013, 08:11 PM   #18
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The loss of cheap shot and other similar abilities is no real loss at all if you know how to play your class to do the dps to make up for it to begin with. Never had to use them with Priss.

So far, I'm pretty happy with the Shield Specialist Vanguard changes and tanking changes as a whole even though it'll take a bit of getting used to.

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Old 02-24-2013, 08:39 AM   #19
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The loss of cheap shot and other similar abilities is no real loss at all if you know how to play your class to do the dps to make up for it to begin with. Never had to use them with Priss..
Yeah, Priss isn't a healer. I semi-resent the "know how to play your class" remark. I know enough about my class to know I need to save my energy for healing and not dps. I wouldn't have to really worry about it if more DPS knew their role and killed the weaks first. However, like I have said, while I was upset with the loss of cheap shot, I think what I am getting will more than offset the loss of cheap shot.

On dps these ablities are not a part of my rotation.


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Old 02-23-2013, 10:34 PM   #20
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Tumult is one of the highest damage outputting skill my shadow has.
And maybe I can replace it with other combo's, make up for it with gear. But why should I? Not to mention pretty much all other attacks use Force. Wave and Tumult where about the only 2 who didn't.

So in the end, yes, I would miss tumult. High damage without power consumption in an easy combo (stun, boulder in face, lift, and may more). No, there is no way at all to compensate for that with the current skillset. Not any.
And why does it have to go? I have no clue what-so-ever. They can't pull the "overpowered in pvp" card since you can't use it there. Maybe that's why. Pvpers whine, BioWare listens???

I see 0 good reasons to remove stun-abilities.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:31 AM   #21
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I've never actually had to use any of the "trashkill" moves that are being removed. I don't even have them on the quickbars of any of my toons cause I've always considered them to be pretty useless.

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Old 02-24-2013, 04:38 AM   #22
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That doesn't mean they aren't useful to a lot of us, and there's no reason at all to remove them from the game entirely.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:37 AM   #23
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I think the reason why they were removed was because the great majority of people didn't use them.

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Old 02-24-2013, 09:21 AM   #24
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Yeah, you may semi-resent it, but you do know as well as I do that people who do actually know how to play their class effectively, like you and many people you've played with, know they don't need the abilities that are being removed. Also, perhaps if certain DPS knew how to play their roles better you wouldn't have so many headaches

All of the classes are getting something extra which is why the loss of these abilities really does not matter.

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Old 02-24-2013, 05:27 PM   #25
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I am screwed. I just tested my merc out on the PTS and my heat management is gone. I am about to lose all my dps. This is horrible. They messed up my rotation severely.




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Old 02-25-2013, 08:24 AM   #26
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Quote:
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I am screwed. I just tested my merc out on the PTS and my heat management is gone. I am about to lose all my dps. This is horrible. They messed up my rotation severely.
Can't judge for myself as I'm not on the PTS, but from what little impressions I've read, there does seem to be more difficulty in heat management. Which, if you think about it, isn't really that hard to understand, considering how easy heat management is right now with a merc (I barely run out of heat with my regular rotation and even if I did, I have Vent Heat and Thermal Sensor Override). Still, I'd have to see for myself. It does seem like the skills hit harder and Power Shot's cast is shortened (still almost useless - oh, I remember the day Power Shot was instant). Some people say 2.0 favors Pyro over Arsenal, which would be nice for once, but not holding my breath. Others say they've made it a more effective class for PvP, which would also be nice.

We might all have to adjust our rotation and say farewell to some skills, but that's the way it is. If skills disappear or are changed, I assume there must be a reason for it and that reason should be balance. So I'm hoping 2.0 balances out the classes better, then. Fingers crossed.


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Old 02-24-2013, 06:58 PM   #27
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Yeah, I gotta totally relearn how to tank in 2.0 too now that the Vanguard Tanks have to keep an eye out for buffs and such a lot more.

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Old 02-24-2013, 09:30 PM   #28
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Okay, wizard. Teach me to play my class.

I am a DPS Jedi Shadow. Tell me how I can get the same DPS-output using *other* skills (that cost force to boot) instead of force-free tumult (as stated, the second most damaging ability).
Teach me my class. Learn me how I can improve my dailies. What's better than "Force in Balance, Rock or 2 in face, boot in face, only strength left"...

Maybe I need to use my finishing move (the -20% health one). Why? It costs force points. It's recharge is long. I rather want to use it on the strong instead, which is then not possible. That's not an improvement.
Double strike? Again, force points. Less damage. I fail to see better.
Rock (project)? I just used it, can't do twice in a row.

Enlighten me, go ahead... I seriously doubt you're going to give me a tumult-less way that does more damage per second.

EDIT:
Also I keep reading "classes get new stuff to compensate". Tell me how removing a lvl 30 and adding a lvl 51 skill is compensation. Instead of leavind 20 levels with less skills, for what?
What magical rule is there that if you increase levels no more skill can be added, so for each one added one is taketh away?
It's as stupid as making orange items lvl 40 required. Then adding a new color at lvl 55. And call that compensation and balancing out.
(It's not)

EDIT2:
Kinda funny you complain many DPS don't know their job and there should be more good DPS'es killing weak thrash first. And just before that said to me I should use a slower, less efficient way to clean weak thrash and move to the more powerful afterwards, fuller powerbar than when I used what was said "more efficiency." Allowing me more powerful attacks against the more powerful too.

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Old 02-25-2013, 01:56 AM   #29
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If you want to ask anyone specifically about the Shadow, Mim's your man since he's been playing a DPS Shadow through ops and is quite skilled even without using the ONE move you're pinned all of your hopes on.

The DPS players I've played with and the DPS toons I play seem to do just fine without them because the players involved know how to adapt. If you don't know how to adapt or are too rigid to adapt then that's on you.

If you can't find a way to get more DPS out of your toon when you've lost your crutch move, that's your queue to start adapting.

My Vanguard tanking has to adapt too in 2.0 since there are a lot of changes with my class and role too. I'm not going to sit here and bitch and moan about having to relearn all this stuff and spend time and effort having to go over my rotations and priorities. I'm just going to do what I need to do to get efficient at the new system.

Another example, my Marauder who uses the Carnage tree has also had some major changes which a lot of people aren't happy with. We have a harder job of keeping up buffs and rage and it's just gotten even harder. A lot of people are complaining about it but a lot of people are also trying to figure out what BioWare had in mind with these changes since a lot of changes were made... NO ONE is talking about the loss of Pommel Strike and Savage Kick (yes, we get TWO trashkill moves) because there are so many abilities so much more important to be worried about that have wider and more important uses.

Changes have been made, more changes will be made... everyone continues to try to figure out the best way to get the most DPS or threat or healing or whatever out of changes when they're made.

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Old 02-25-2013, 09:10 AM   #30
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Quote:
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If you want to ask anyone specifically about the Shadow, Mim's your man since he's been playing a DPS Shadow through ops and is quite skilled even without using the ONE move you're pinned all of your hopes on.
My suggestion for endgame raids with a infiltration shadow is, level a watchman.

Leyn'a was my second toon to 50 and I personally love the class as it was my first character than was leveled just for me. Meaning I still consider my sawbones and main property of The Walking Carpets (guild). Leny'a on the other hand is all mine, she is pretty useless, or at least lacking in group play beyond stealth and CC's.

I can understand you being upset with losing it before cap. It is a very useful ability for solo leveling, however for end game I don't even have it on my UI. No clue, if it is more useful for balance, but to me it is a useless move for endgame, since it does nothing to set up my next move and it is only good for a knocked out enemy, something I let the tank or raid leaders do. Don't even miss it during dailies because in dailies nothing lives long enough for me to worry about focus management.


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Old 02-25-2013, 02:19 AM   #31
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Do ops only wield elite or higher enemies (I don't know).

Sure, I can adapt. It would however still mean I lose my most powerful attack I can use on thrashmob, which would overall reduce my DPS however you look at it. Hardly "useless"... I'm not too fond of looking forward to dying more or generally taking more damage just because it takes longer to take weak stunned enemies down.

It's not really "more DPS" as "lose as little DPS as possible" (on thrash, on elite+ I of course already don't use it, so it wont change before and after)... yes, it's definitely doable. But I ask you... Why exactly am I forced to do that? What possible reason could there be the move has to go from the game? Just so some people save a slot they already have by not putting it on the quickbar? Because that's just the most stupid reason to remove a power ever. Imagine if KOTOR1/2 the least used feats/powers were removed. Wouldn't that hurt people using them? Wouldn't it make less possible strategies. And would it really make any difference for those who never picked them anyway? No? Then why force it on everyone else?
You've also got 3 skill trees to pick from, choice in tactics. Why take that away again? I don't know. BW has yet to give a reason at all...

I'm sure there are changes to the Assassin too that makes me evaluate over. But that doesn't mean combat gets more hollow if the only powers remaining are no-prequisits, dumbing down combat since you're just spamming attack after attack, and nice combo's that were useful (stun+power) before are gone. I just don't see a good reason to hollow combat out like that, so yes, I do object...
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:46 AM   #32
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Ops have regular trash too, plenty of them, larger groups considering it's an 8-player thing.

If tumult and moves like it really are that important to DPS, I must not be pulling my weight as a DPS at all with Priss (Gunslinger) or Silvana (Marauder) since I never used their equivalent moves at all. Don't really have all that much trouble managing their energy/rage unless I end up doing something stupid like over extending a DPS burn and not pulling back when I'm supposed to.

I dunno... I guess since I've never relied on it, it's value is just non-existent to me.

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Old 02-25-2013, 03:51 AM   #33
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I'll miss Tumult on my Shadow Tank and Sorc Healer and yeah don't really know why the abilities are being removed, but it ain't the end of the world.


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Old 02-25-2013, 04:09 AM   #34
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I don't use whirlwind. However without reason removing it I would still object to it. If there was a good reason, okay.
And if the requirements are the issue, what about the Sith Warrior's Retaliation? Do you use it on your maurader? Since I find it a lot harder to trigger than stun, since you can do stun yourself, and this relies purely on the enemy.

So far my lvl 29 maurader also has no rage issues, ever since getting the skills that make the +6 rage skill regenerate 3s faster and force choke. Of course, most rage-taking skill suck and the rage-giving are more awesome. I only really spend rage on 3 skills (smash, scream and the red saber thingie I don't recall the name off).

Energy with the consular is a whole other matter, since pretty much everything relies on it but wave (also stuns!) and tumult. Having plenty of additional power for Force in Balance, rock in face (I still can't remember the name) and the finisher move (same here), tied in with "continues-rock" (yeah, bad with skill names) consumes plenty of it. Makes me happy when I can use 'free' wave, although it annoys most people apparently in pugs, making me limited to just boss-fights (in which it's still very useful).
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:51 AM   #35
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I don't use Whirlwind much either, but I still consider it useful, the moves that are being removed I still consider useless

Carnage Marauder's have a harder time with rage than you realise. Force Choke is used sparingly at higher levels if at all... mostly not, retaliation is used sparingly too, if at all. For us things are focused around Gore and Massacre and firing off Force Scream when it can auto-crit. Smash is only really good for trash mobs, however only really effective when everyone else is aoeing them down too. Generally, people who play a Carnage Marauder all agree that you have to be extremely careful with them otherwise you'll become rage-starved very quickly... even more quickly in 2.0.

Requirements aren't the issue, there are a lot of times when you have to use one ability to build onto the next, wait for things to proc, etc, with every class. Some classes need more management than others in this area.

Tell you what though, I'll put Tumult back on my quickbar for my assassin and play around with it before 2.0 hits... there's plenty of time before that happens.

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Old 02-25-2013, 08:18 AM   #36
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More revamps are gonna happen in the future too though... don't get too comfy

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Old 02-25-2013, 09:48 AM   #37
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Well, shadows have a ton of stunning powers... so using it isn't that hard.

Outright stun. Lift. Wave. Rock-to-face. They all allow tumult.
And maybe once I get better gear I may also not worry in dailies (though it still helps clearing stuff in flashpoints), but for now, I do.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:55 AM   #38
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I don't use most of those either.

Stealth>Force Breach>Clairvoyant Strike>Clairvoyant Strike>Project. Then use Force Breach every time it is off CD, Use Shadow Strike anytime find weakness is up, and after every two Clairvoyant Strikes, use Project. Once at less than 30%, use Spinning Strike anytime off of CD.

energy management, use blackout and throw in a few Saber Strikes here and there. In group play (ONLY) you can use Force Cloak to get Blackout instantly back up. However, solo it will just knock you out of combat.

As long as find weakness or 2 Circling Shadows are up, you are better off using Shadow Strike or Project than Tumult. According to Mav, Infiltration may actually be viable in 2.0 for group play, this excites me, but I am taking a wait and see attitude. I have heard that before. Still Shadows are great for SM TfB where burst dps is King. So I have one ops at least where I don't feel she is carried. Also we 5 manned Xeno the other day, thought she did alright there too, but the healer and tank were the real heroes there. :


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Old 02-25-2013, 05:24 PM   #39
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3 tracers, an unload, one heatseaker missiles and one railshot maxes my heat. That's not alright. I had to get full black hole before I could keep up with the columi geared dps of any other class. This isn't cool. We don't deserve another nerf...




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Old 02-25-2013, 05:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canderis View Post
3 tracers, an unload, one heatseaker missiles and one railshot maxes my heat. That's not alright. I had to get full black hole before I could keep up with the columi geared dps of any other class. This isn't cool. We don't deserve another nerf...
You and Hassat Hunter do understand this is only on the PTS to be tested? It does not mean this will be the final version. They are testing it for a reason. If it does not work, then they will fix it. Anyone that has been around since beta have seen these types of changes before. I have had my rotations changed more than once.


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