The Final Battle

[Vaelastraz]

Originally Posted by stoffe -mkb-

I prefer being in control of my character during combat rather than sit and watch while the computer have them do stupid things. Like in Jedi Academy where you just stand and watch like an idiot and let Tavion freely awaken the ghost of Ragnos without lifting a finger to stop her. Very invoking.

I'd actually prefer there being no bossfight at the end at all. Imagine the outcry, the horror of an RPG ending without a big fight against a cheesy boss breaking every rule they can manage? It would be unprecedented.

Well, i've played many Rpgs and right now i cant think of one without some kind of bossfight. Bossfights are there for a reason, just because it would add something "new" doesnt mean that would actually be good.

And about your point "sit and watch while the computer ...". So could you acutally cut off Kreia's hand? Or did you just click on an attack or used some force power (like choke... choke off hands) ? Cut scenes would not take something away from the fight, but add details! It could also be a cutscene where your enemy collapses after you defeated him/her.

But maybe i just like well done cutscenes in games.

[stoffe]

Originally Posted by Vaelastraz

Well, i've played many Rpgs and right now i cant think of one without some kind of bossfight. Bossfights are there for a reason

What would this reason be, and why can't the same need be fulfilled though some other, more believable method? I just think pitting you against an enemy that for some unexplainable reason is insanely powerful compared to everything else, and who breaks the rules of the game as they see fit, is the easy way out to provide a challenge and "Wow! factor" at the end. No need to get innovative when you have an easy way that has been used for decades.

Now, I admit some bosses can be fun to fight if you can manage to suspend disbelief. My main problem with the boss concept though is that it strongarms the RPG into being an Action-RPG. If you are forced to go head to head with some big bad in direct combat, where usually all other tricks than just dealing raw damage won't work (since bosses tend to be immune to all effects/statuses under the sun), it forces the player to focus on the combat aspect of the game to the exclusion of everything else if they want to have a chance of finishing the game. And RPG has the potential to offer so much more than just slashing enemies to bits.

How would a "social manipulator" character with high charisma and Persuade, or a "Covert Ops" character with Stealth/Sneak attack, fare against a combat juggernaut that won't talk, can see right through any stealth and is immune to sneak attacks? Or Wizard/Caster/Force User focused characters who don't primarily focus on a couple of raw damage-dealer spells/powers, but use the other spells/powers available that the bosses conveniently are immune to?

At least some games (like PS:Torment) offers you the choice of fighting or dealing with the End Boss in some other way. I suppose that's good enough for me, providing satisfaction for both those who want a serious fight and those who want to try another path. But after fighting through bosses for 15 years (and being forced to rely on cheats on the occasions I felt like playing a character not focusing solely on combat and damage dealing) it would be refreshing with some new ideas. Surprise me.

Originally Posted by Vaelastraz

And about your point "sit and watch while the computer ...". So could you acutally cut off Kreia's hand?

Would you really need a cutscene for something like this? You could just make it a scripted event during the combat and make it happen when some condition is fulfilled (like the enemy being below certain health, or you hit them in the general area of their hand). Just like Power Attacks and Flurry have their own animations, so could a condition like that have one.

I suppose short cutscenes wouldn't be so bad on occasion, as long as they stay away from the 2 hour motion pictures that are triggered every 10 minutes in many japanese RPGs

[Arátoeldar]

Originally Posted by Darth333

I agree with all the others who disagree with the original idea... Kotor must not turn into another button mashing game.

Agreed two of my favorite games have been dumbed downed for the console market.

[Vaelastraz]

Originally Posted by stoffe -mkb-

My main problem with the boss concept though is that it strongarms the RPG into being an Action-RPG. If you are forced to go head to head with some big bad in direct combat, where usually all other tricks than just dealing raw damage won't work (since bosses tend to be immune to all effects/statuses under the sun), it forces the player to focus on the combat aspect of the game to the exclusion of everything else if they want to have a chance of finishing the game. And RPG has the potential to offer so much more than just slashing enemies to bits.

Well, quite a few RPGs offer to reduce the difficulty during a game, which should be enough to get past a boss fight with a non combat based character.

Right RPGs have the potential to offer much more than slashing enemies, but killing enemies is still a major part in getting experience and items.

I really like bosses, as they tend to make a good story more dynamic and personal. Give that boss a suiting voice, a good apearance, reasonable motivations and the impact on atomsphere and story is great. At least for me.
The fight against that boss is nice as well, ther just has to be one "last" task wich the PC has to fulfill, that doesnt have to be a bossfight though.

[bobogarcia]

Originally Posted by ilwugoalie

and for the record, KOTOR III will look great on the 360

Soooo true. And make it for PC too. the last battle should be against the protagonist, but have an option to convert to LS