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Old 04-18-2007, 04:19 AM   #1
corcore
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The Jedi Vagrant

I've been doing a bit of thinking about what I would like the back story of the K3 PC to be and decided I'd share it with the community.

Background:

The PC is one of many Jedi that left to join the Mandalorian Wars against the councils wishes. He (or she, but since I'm a dude, I'm going to say he) felt that the council was betraying the people it was meant to protect, and so he too felt betrayed by the council. So the PC decides to follow Revan instead. He fights well throughout the Mandalorian Wars and the PC serves Revan loyally, trusting that Revan is fighting to protect the people that the council would not.

It is because of his loyalty that he is stationed aboard Revan's ship at the battle of Malachor V, and therefore was not part of the destruction caused by the Mass Shadow Generator. The devastation Revan caused to the Republic lead the PC to question whether or not he was following the right person. When Revan began his war on the Republic, his doubts were confirmed. He had once again been betrayed.

The PC then decided to place his loyalties in the hands of the one guide that had not yet betrayed him: the Force. The PC then leaves the war behind and instead follows the call of the Force to where ever it leads him. It is at this point that the PC embarks on various adventures (very similar to those of Jolee after the Jedi Council "left him"). This is where the name Jedi Vagrant comes from (I'm not 100% on that since it is kinda close to exile). These adventures are revealed through conversations and influence/lightside/darkside can be gained/lost depending on how the PC views his actions.

What causes this character to become powerful (to the levels of or slightly below Revan) is that he has spent so much time listening to the Force, and not the politics of the galaxy, and so he has a strong relationship with the Force and can interpret its will better than many other Jedi.

The Plot:

The story of K3 would begin with the PC on some sort of transport vessel bound for some planet that the PC may or might not get to later on (its not really that important in this draft of my idea). The transport is attacked by a pirate vessel (pirates are sweet). This is where the whole tutorial sequence begins. The pirate raid causes great damage to the transport and its passengers, but the PC manages to fight off pirates. However, the transport is almost completely destroyed, so the PC has to get all the survivors (if any) aboard the pirate vessel (which replaces the Ebon Hawk in K3) and land on the closest planet.

This planet has a pretty good sized city on it (like Taris, NOT like Peragus which is practically empty). The pirate vessel is impounded by local security Forces, and the PC has no money for a new transport ticket. So while the PC scrounges up some credits doing various odd jobs, he learns gets some news about all the happenings of the galaxy, including that the Exile has left for unknown regions (this is where the PC decides what the Exile was like). Whether the Exile was part of the newly established Jedi Council or warring with it, the PC decides to head to Coruscant where the council is located (this is wishful thinking, I really don't want to see Dantooine again). So now that the PC knows where he's going, he just needs a way to get there. After a sequence of at-the-moment-unknown events, the PC is aboard the pirate vessel on his way to Coruscant with his first companion. This companion just so happens to have been captured by the pirates and was going to be sold into slavery (so it is probably a female twilek since this sort of thing happens to them a lot).

After a meeting with the council members, the PC decides that he needs answers to certain questions he's been harboring from Revan (and the Exile too I guess). So this is where the PC ventures into the unkown regions, eventually getting himself caught up in Revan's war (no matter what Revan's objectives actually are, but this will be determined by how the character interprets Revan).

The story will include stuff about the "true sith", but it mostly revolves around the PC's evolution from a follower to a leader, and his ability to trust in himself, rather than following someone else's lead.

On a side note:

Should Revan and the Exile appear in the game, I think how you decide their alignments to be should affect the difficulty of the game. For instance, if Revan and the Exile are decided to be light side, and the PC is light side, the PC now has two powerful allies, so the game would naturally be a little easier I would think. If in this situation the character was Dark side, he would have two very powerful enemies in addition to the true sith (hopefully Revan and the Exile are forgiving, or else Darksiders are in for some tough battles).


If this parallels anyone else's ideas it's not because I read yours because the only ones I read I didn't particularly like, so I justed wanted you to know that I"m not stealing your ideas. "Great minds think alike" I always say.

Please post comments because I would really like to know what you guys think.

Last edited by corcore; 04-19-2007 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 04-18-2007, 06:52 AM   #2
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The plot is good and all, but I just had one question. You added in the Jedi Council, (which was destroyed mostly by the events of Katar, Visas's homeworld), but did you intend on meaning that this new Jedi Order was rebuilt by the remaining jedi left in the galaxy? (oh jeeze! I think i just made a sugestion. Don't mind me.)
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:23 PM   #3
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I guess it was an assumption of mine that the Jedi companions from K2 would have formed some kind of council.
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:45 PM   #4
Darca Lar
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IF the previous PC's were to be in the game, it should be a split second appearance, OR your allies to fight the Sith. Whether they become enemies or stay allies then should wait 'til the climax.


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Last edited by Darca Lar; 04-19-2007 at 07:09 PM.
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Old 04-18-2007, 02:53 PM   #5
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I like the idea a lot, its how I envision K3 myself. your giving the game room to be new and interesting, but still Star War's, not just " you wake up on a True Sith world next to a True Sith, fight the True Sith, Become a True Sith, The End"


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Old 04-18-2007, 09:40 PM   #6
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Surprisingly, I actually rather like this story. The only big problem I see is that the PC is another Jedi who fought in the Mandalorian War against the council's wishes and was at Malachor V. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?


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Old 04-19-2007, 12:30 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
Surprisingly, I actually rather like this story. The only big problem I see is that the PC is another Jedi who fought in the Mandalorian War against the council's wishes and was at Malachor V. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
Haha I know exactly what your thinking. The difference I was pushing for was that the Vagrant was loyal without question to Revan (until after the battle) and so he was on Revan's flagship, whereas the Exiles loyalties were in question, so he was on Malachor itself with all the other soldiers with questionable loyalties (or at least I think thats how it was). If I remember correctly, Mandalore's flagship delayed Revan from actually taking part in the battle, but I'm not 100% on that.
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Old 04-19-2007, 01:50 PM   #8
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If Revan is in K3, I prefer him (or her) to either be your ally against the true Sith (if LS) or else the major villain of the game (if DS).

One problem with this idea, though. It's a good thing that this character has NOT conveniently become amnesic or otherwise lost all his powers, but since he has a lot of experience, that would suggest he is fairly powerful. I don't see how you can start a game above level 1 - you'd lose the entire charm of experiencing your character's rise to power.


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Last edited by Jediphile; 04-19-2007 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 04-19-2007, 04:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
One problem with this idea, though. It's a good thing that this character has conveniently become amnesic or otherwise lost all his powers, but since he has a lot of experience, that would suggest he is fairly powerful. I don't see how you can start a game above level 1 - you'd lose the entire charm of experiencing your character's rise to power.
Simple. You start off as Level 1 because the Force tells you, "Go and sit down and do abosultey nothing!"

"Sure thing!" said the Jedi Master Who Trusts The Force A Bit Too Much.

It is...interesting for the K3 character to be a LS verison of Darth Nihilus, who is not in control of his own actions but rather just becoming a follower of the Force. Also a contrapart to Kreia. It would justify why he is powerful, but he really wouldn't be a human, he would be a total Slave to the Force's Will. He's just a LS monster...and if the Force 'happens' to tells him to go DS...my god.

Good job, you got a way to gain uber-powerful without making it too unbelivable. I still prefer the Manlipuative Bastard theory of Jediphile.

One thing though: How do you handle a DS Exile? Would the comapnions of the DS Exile form the Jedi Order regardless, even when they are corrupted by the DS Exile? Why?


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Simple. You start off as Level 1 because the Force tells you, "Go and sit down and do abosultey nothing!"

"Sure thing!" said the Jedi Master Who Trusts The Force A Bit Too Much.
You took the words right out of my mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
One thing though: How do you handle a DS Exile? Would the comapnions of the DS Exile form the Jedi Order regardless, even when they are corrupted by the DS Exile? Why?
After the Exile ditches them to go find Revan, the companions realizes they were just tools of the Exile (like how Kreia told the Exile they should be viewed), and so they make up their own minds about what to do.

I was thinking only some of the companions of the Exile would be on the council. Visas definitely, probably Mira, and then Atton too.


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Old 04-19-2007, 10:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
After the Exile ditches them to go find Revan, the companions realizes they were just tools of the Exile (like how Kreia told the Exile they should be viewed), and so they make up their own minds about what to do.

I was thinking only some of the companions of the Exile would be on the council. Visas definitely, probably Mira, and then Atton too.
Seemingly a copt-out of how to deal with Exile, and you might get some people to believe that what the Exile done was disregarded. Though, it might be possible.

There are two ways that could be handled, IMHO, to make the Exile's DS alignment matter, at least a little bit, to provide the illusion your choices mattered. Just my two cents:

1. Exile's companions form a Sith Order.
2. Exile's companions form a Grey Jedi Order, or prehaps pass off as a Jedi Order while at the same time secretly Sith. They are less 'othrodox' than the LS Jedi, willing to use the DS when necessary in accomplishing their goals.
===
Overall good. Right now, I have a two of two (count them, two) potential ways the Developers can create an original idea to justify the K3's player power level. This should show people that Obisidan can do such a thing, and in fact, most likely will do something much more better.

1) Manlipuative Bastard, made by Jediphile.
2) Force Slave, made by you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:36 AM   #12
Darca Lar
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I don't think that maybe they should be a part of the council at all, but working with the council(other jedi that were in hiding).


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
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Old 04-20-2007, 06:15 PM   #13
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I think that the Exile should have returned to Courscant after KOTOR II, and joined a newly reformed Jedi Order (maybe under Atrius?). However, she could not have converted back to the LS at all, and serves to use the Jedi Counsel for her own purposes. I've always liked the idea of a Sith in hiding among Jedi, even possibly leading the Jedi Order.
It would also be a good idea for the Republic to be in decline at this time (from what G0-T0 said, about the possible destruction of the Republic itself, from the inside), and is beginning to fracture. Corruption could become a way of life for both government and the guilded halls of the Jedi Temple. Maybe they even both entertwine (the highest Jedi Master, hailed as a hero and survivor of the Jedi Purge, being elected as the Supreme Chancellor).
I don't know if anyone else sees this the same way I do. Even so, I think that it would be an excellent plot twist between TSL and K3.
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Old 04-21-2007, 08:27 PM   #14
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I don't think Atris should be a part of the council, or part fo the game because of the final fight in TSL. I don't think the Exile should also be a part of the council or be serving them, the Exile should've just gone to unknown space. I think the only people that should appear in K3 from the previous games are Carth Onasi, Atton, Bao-Dur, Canderous/Mandalore, HK-47, and T3-M4. Carth, because he doesn't die, and the rest because you never actually killed them nor do you see them actually die.(even with the Ebon Hawk falling into the Core of the Planet for both DS and LS. LS it flies back up and rescues you.)
So the story of the crew(other than Mira or if DS, Hanharr, GO-TO and Remote) should be that they fly off Malachor,(with the Exile if LS, or without the Exile if DS) and go back to rendevous with everyone at Citadel Station, but don't mention whether the Exile was ever on board(LS they drop the Exile off on Nar Shadaa and swear secrecy. T3 also transfer's the locked navigation charts from Revan's travels to the Exile's datapad and then locks them again so the crew doesn't follow, DS the Exile flew off on Kreia's ship before the Ebon Hawk could get airborn again). The only thing they say is that the Exile is probably where Revan is.


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Old 04-22-2007, 01:18 PM   #15
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Yeah, I can agree with that. Makes more sense. I was thinking, however, that the PC needs some sort of mentor, such as Kreia or Bastilla were. I suspect that it will be Atris, since they are running out of Force-users. Maybe Jolee Bindo. Now that would be awesome.

I can imagine, if Jolee becomes the PC's master, that he would be a good version of Kreia, the same sort of grey philosophy in a beneficial tone to the galaxy. If so, I can see the following conversation happening (which should have probably been in TSL, with Kreia):

PC: But only those who follow the dark side deal in absolutes!
Bindo: Actually, you are incorrect, young one. This hypocritical Jedi philosophy was one of the reasons that I left the Order.
PC: [Continue]
Bindo: Both the Sith and the Jedi look at the universe in black and white, when it is neither. The Jedi, however, deal solely with their limited understanding of the Force, while the Sith respect power wherever it manifests itself. The Jedi Order, while saying that they don't deal in absolutes, believes that anyone who doesn't follow their exact ideologies are inherently evil.
PC: I will think about what you have said.
Bindo: Good, for it is one of life's greatest lessons.
[Your PC has gained a new perspective on the Force, resulting in +1 Wisdom]
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Old 04-22-2007, 07:46 PM   #16
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If it was to be a previous seen character like Atris or Jolee, then they should be force ghosts who guide the PC. Whether the previous two PC's killed Jolee/Atris or not(you decide), they can't remember how they died. They only mention their last memories(Atris around some Sith holocrons, and Jolee at the Rakatan Temple.) The rest is a blur. When you ask Atris/Jolee more questions about it to try and jog their memory(by using persuasion), they'd say something like:

[Failure]Atris/Jolee: I'm afraid I still cannot remember, and I think it's best if we leave it that way. Though...I feel the answers you seek will come to you in time.

OR

[Success]Atris/Jolee: [gasp].....hmmm....yes that's right! Now I...

PC: What is it? What happened?

Atris/Jolee: I...[ahem]...I cannot tell you that. Yes...it's best that you don't know yet.

PC: a: What? Why not?
b: Oh come on, please!?
c: I get your memory back, and you 'cannot' tell me anything?
d: Quit the cryptic poodoo and tell me ghost!

Atris/Jolee: No, I'm sorry but I can't. This information could endanger your very own destiny and the destinies of those you travel with. But, in time all your answers will come. Now, let's just drop this and get back to what we need to do.


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Old 04-22-2007, 07:50 PM   #17
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^^

You can't do that with Jolee, at least, because that option is valid only for the DS ending of KotOR. Sure, he might have died later, but Jolee definitely lived beyond the Rakatan temple if Revan is LS, so you can't suggest he died there unless the player has first chosen that Revan is DS.

With Atris it is possible either way, but I would prefer not, since it actually possible for the LS exile to let her live.


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Old 04-22-2007, 07:59 PM   #18
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Well, I chose that spot with Jolee because that's the critical decision whether he lives or dies in the game. Plus at the Star Forge it was a bunch of lightsabers swinging, explosions and blaster fire. So it could be like all he can see about his last moments, lightsabers, and Revan. As for Atris, she might have been aloud to live, but she could have died from a wound she suffered.


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Old 04-23-2007, 06:18 AM   #19
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Give yourself a pat on the back corcore. Impressive. Of course it isn’t flawless though. That being said, apart from my face, what is flawless? :Giggles:

*There are only three problems I have

-You should let the player decide why the K3 PC joined the Mandalorian Wars in a conversation about his/her past (like in TSL).

-I prefer SilentScope001’s idea (1 and 2 are both good) on how to handle DS Exile’s companions. Your idea on how to handle DS Exile’s companions in my opinion is too biased towards the LS. DS players need to feel a sense of accomplishment on the influence they had over their companions, or slave tools.

-You go from a Taris like planet to Coruscant to the unknown regions to fight against the True Sith. Umm…is it just me, or does this sound too short, and more like a Jedi Academy type game than a CRPG, which is what KotOR III should be?

Or is the Taris like planet and Coruscant that big, where plenty of role-playing (side quests and all that jazz) is provided? Or, do you do more than just fight the True Sith when you reach the unknown regions?


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Old 04-23-2007, 06:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by The Architect
-You should let the player decide why the K3 PC joined the Mandalorian Wars in a conversation about his/her past (like in TSL).
The player would be able decide for themselves from a list of choices, but each choice would revolve around the Jedi Council's inactivity. If a character asks why they joined, some example responses could be:

[Light] "The Jedi could not fight a two front war with both the Mandalorians and the Sith and still protect the people. We had to deal with the current threat."
[Gray] "My duty is to the people of this galaxy above all else."
[Dark] "I just wanted to carve up some Mandos!"

Quote:
-I prefer SilentScope001’s idea (1 and 2 are both good) on how to handle DS Exile’s companions. Your idea on how to handle DS Exile’s companions in my opinion is too biased towards the LS. DS players need to feel a sense of accomplishment on the influence they had over their companions, or slave tools.
I don't SilentScope's #1 would be the best option because a new Sith Order within the Republic would overshadow the threat of the True Sith (which I believe is what most people want to see).

I do agree with #2 in that if a new Jedi Council was formed, and comprised of the Exile's companions, it would be very Gray in nature since the companions have experienced both sides of the Force.

Now that I think about it, I have not played TSL as Darkside yet, so perhaps having Visas and Mira on the council is not the best idea, since they would both likely die in the Darkside storyline.

Quote:
-You go from a Taris like planet to Coruscant to the unknown regions to fight against the True Sith. Umm…is it just me, or does this sound too short, and more like a Jedi Academy type game than a CRPG, which is what KotOR III should be?
You wouldn't go straight from Coruscant to the unkown regions. You would work your way through a number of planets (most of them would probably be outer rim systems) before reaching the unkown regions.

Quote:
Or is the Taris like planet and Coruscant that big, where plenty of role-playing (side quests and all that jazz) is provided? Or, do you do more than just fight the True Sith when you reach the unknown regions?
Coruscant would definitely be big. I would like there to be sidequests on Coruscant that are connected to other planets as well, so that some can't be started/finished until certain offworld events have happend.

I didn't want to spend an entire day writing my ideas down so naturally some clarifications need to be made, so thanks for showing an interest!


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Last edited by corcore; 04-25-2007 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 04-23-2007, 07:39 PM   #21
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After a bit of thought, I think I have come up with a few ideas that would polish this Jedi Vagrant plot up a bit.

Background: Instead of having actually fought in the Mandelorian wars, how about having the PC be a Jedi Knight after the Exile was, well... exiled? It would be interesting if the PC somehow, in advance, felt a disturbance in the Force about the death of life on Katarr, and at the same time was discouraged about the role of Jedi Order in the galaxy. In result, he/she hid on some other planet (maybe in Hutt space?) and began a new life as a smuggler or something of the sort. In the aftermath of the disaster at Katarr, the remaining members of the Jedi Order thought that the PC had died on the planet. The name taken in the beginning of the game could be an alias, which lasts until the PC runs into a Jedi, and is recognized.

The Plot: I like the concept of the first section, though it would be cool if it wasn't pirates (even if pirates are sweet... maybe one of your usable NPCs could be a space pirate though?) but a Republic fleet that traps your smuggling vessel (assuming what I said above about the PC taking up a new life as a smuggler... or maybe a pirate?) and critically damages it, causing you to have an emergency landing on the first planet (lets use Sleheyron).
On Sleheyron, the PC is told that his/her ship is totalled, and would be worth more as slag. In order to get off the planet, he/she has to work for one of two rival Hutt bosses, one who wants to steal the other one's cargo and sabotage it before selling the goods to the original buyers (destroying the competition's reputation on the market, and forcing him to sell out), and the other who wants just to do good business (the light side choice). In the end, either way you gain control of a freighter filled with cargo (which happens to be... you guessed it, a repaired Ebon Hawk). Somehow, you should gain a companion on Sleheyron. I like the female Twi'lek slave idea. Once reaching the end of Sleheyron, a cut scene should begin in which a Republic officer on the planet tells Admiral Carth Onasi that the PC is about to leave.
Once the Ebon Hawk leaves Sleheyron's atmosphere, it runs into a Republic fleet blockade, and the PC is forced to surrender.
On board the Republic cruiser Sojurn in an interrogation room, the PC is in a force cage. At this time, Bastila Shan/Atris/Jolee Bindo (whoever would be best as a mentor and character in the party) walks into the room, and says something along the lines of "It has been a long time since I have seen you, <Fullname>. Some of us thought that you had died, but I never believed it." After this, Bastila/Atris/Bindo explains that the newly reformed Jedi Order, and Revan, needs the PC to help against a great evil, which cannot be revealed before its time. Eventually, the PC gives in, and becomes a Jedi again (of course, it has been a long time, and the PC has to start from level 1 Jedi all over again). Then, he/she is let go again, on a mission to do something on the other planets (I'm out of ideas), and as a sidequest must finish delivering cargo on each one for the Hutts.
In the end, the PC must battle the True Sith. Allied with most of the companions of the first two games, and his/her own from the third, (though most of them are not seen, and are mentioned only. At most, they have a small cameo role.) the PC is given a recording of the voice code to unlock the Ebon Hawk's records, and can travel to Revan's location in Unknown Space.
There should be some more twists in there, like losing a planet or two on the Outer Rim to the True Sith threat. A visit to the Jedi Temple on Courscant, and some other modules on the planet, and maybe a visit to Ziost, both during the middle of the game. Even when the climax of the game seems to be happening, there should be a twist. What seems to be the final battle could be, in fact, a lightsaber duel in which Revan (who has hidden his dark side before, and has been corrupted again, betraying the Republic and the Jedi Order to regain the title of Dark Lord of the Sith) uses the PC to eliminate his competition to the title. Then, Revan could escape and use the True Sith forces to attack the weakened Republic. Then the PC ends up stopping the plan, killing Revan, and destroying the True Sith, except maybe for a couple, who carry on the tradtition and true line of the Sith Order until Palpatine.

Wow, I meant to add just a few things, and seem to have come up with a twisted variation on your original one.
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Old 04-23-2007, 08:24 PM   #22
Darca Lar
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That's...a lot of thought. Pretty good too, but I still say cannonically setting lives of those you could have killed previously should be left out.


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
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Old 04-23-2007, 10:29 PM   #23
corcore
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Hmmmm. I don't know if I would call it polishing, it's more like melting down and recycling.

After giving my idea some more thought, I would have to agree with Darca that anyone who could have died should should not play an important role in the story (small cameos would be okay depending on how the players sets up Revan and the Exile). I also don't really want to see the Ebon Hawk again, unless it's a simple cameo or my only option of escape from somewhere (and that would have to be a one time thing).

I don't really like the idea of my character's appearance to be vital info for Carth or the Republic. One of the things I hope to see in K3 is the player's ability to forge the character's importance to the galaxy. By that I mean I don't want to be part of a prophecy, or the last Jedi, or an amnesiatic savior/conquerer. I just want to be a regular Jedi whatever, but still have a significant impact on the galaxy. I don't to be on someone's watch list the moment I step into the game...

...unless in one of my "gray jedi adventures" I happened to have pissed off some pirates/smugglers/miscreants and they come back seeking revenge, thus helping to explain more of my character's backstory.


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