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Old 12-28-2007, 06:25 PM   #121
Robb Stark
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The heart of the matter that people don't seem to want to give up is that the power of the Jedi relative to other classes has to be balanced. "Everyone," even people who want an MMO to work, still want their uber Jedi. The questsion is whether the developer is willing to ignore the screams of bloody murder for the long-term viability that balance between classes would bring.

Incidentally, the Jedi being the best warriors, wizards, and possibly even healers is a characteristic of the Star Wars setting as a whole that hurts multi-player gaming, and yet the opportunity to be a Jedi is what draws people to role-play in the setting. It's self-defeating on that front. Yet, with the willingness to make sacrifices regarding a Jedi's powers and endure the outrage that accompanies that choice, I think it can be done.

I might argue that a post-SPRPG setting actually promotes class balance...heavily armored Mandalorian mercenaries could rival Jedi at melee/tanking, while kortosis weave technology allows other classes to not be instantly slaughtered by Jedi in PvP. Assassin droids, Echani combat specialists, healing bots and Wookie Shaman...all the while the Jedi are less powerful than they otherwise would have been because the Exile's new Jedi Order is still growing, much of the knowledge hidden away by the Masters before KotOR2 is still missing, or whatever story you want to use for your explanation. On the Sith side the ravages of war resulted in the destruction of much Sith knowledge, but much yet waits to be found as a new Sith Order rises from the ashes of the destruction at the hands of Revan and the Exile.

Can a Star Wars MMO use the same faction+race+class model prevelant in fantasy RPGs and rival other popular MMOs in the long run? Probably not--the content doesn't lend itself to that kind of setup--but there are ways to make this work, with innovation and ingenious features like morality meters and more sophisticated class development, and interaction with NPCs that goes beyond quest-giving and quest-rewards that shape your character as much as any XP reward can, etc. etc. that play to the setting's strengths. So many cool things could be done if the developers were ambitious and patient enough--I think a KotOR MMO is very far from a guaranteed failure, though I cannot yet say how confident I might be in its success.
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:26 PM   #122
Kain Darro
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The big thing about the "jedi being uber" thing is that it is only an immage. This is stated many times throughout the SW material. Heck, even the bmf jedi, Mace Windu, states that on Geonosis he had two choices; to kill Duku and end the clone wars before they started, thus being killed by Jango, or to save his own life. Mace knew Jango was more than a match for any jedi, even one of Mace's skill.

That is the thing about jedi. They are human/sentient being. The belief that they are unbeatable is one manufactured by the jedi themselves. The air of mystery and power is used by the jedi to defeat opponents before an encounter gets to combat. Even a newly appointed jedi knight can stare down a notorious bounty hunter and make them submit to the jedi's will because they think the jedi will squash them like a gizka.

Even still, those who know better and could kill jedi by the score, will keep that fact quiet, as it makes them look more powerful than they may actualy be.

I think jedi should be ballanced with the other classes, just for that reason. No bonuses against jedi for some, or jedi getting bonuses or penalties against others. Just balanced. (as much as it can be, I guess.)
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Old 01-03-2008, 02:33 PM   #123
Kain Darro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Stark
Can a Star Wars MMO use the same faction+race+class model prevelant in fantasy RPGs and rival other popular MMOs in the long run? Probably not--.
I verily dissagree. The SW rpg, Saga edition, uses just that. You chose your class, you chose your race, you chose your faction orientation. It does work for SW, in fact, it works better for SW than any thing else. There are more races in the galaxy than in any fantasy setting, and any race can be anything. Some might be better at some things in minor ways, but the possiblities are endless.

LA would just have to use a different system than WotC, copyright stuff tends to make big legal issues. Very icky.
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Old 01-03-2008, 03:43 PM   #124
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Speaking of MMOs, though, how about an Elder Scrolls-like system where you can learn anything? That might provide for some long-term fun, too.

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Old 01-05-2008, 10:34 AM   #125
Darca Lar
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Maybe with a few modifications to the system to fit the Star Wars feel, then yeah I could see it.


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Old 02-26-2008, 04:10 PM   #126
Robb Stark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain Darro
I verily dissagree. The SW rpg, Saga edition, uses just that. You chose your class, you chose your race, you chose your faction orientation. It does work for SW, in fact, it works better for SW than any thing else. There are more races in the galaxy than in any fantasy setting, and any race can be anything. Some might be better at some things in minor ways, but the possiblities are endless.
Multi-player tabletop RPG =/= MMORPG

Two different mediums.

I wrote a very long response, but then I realized that I'm probably in a very lonely minority that thinks sandbox MMOs are generally horrible ideas for the purpose of achieving mass-market appeal.

Dozens of Jedi Wookies mulling about Anchorhead = dumb. The freeform approach of sandbox MMOs undermines the setting IMO, and ultimately returns little back to the lore/mythology to universe. I'd much rather my MMO be built around an actual plot, which would generally necessitate some restrictions among race and class combinations for the sake of logical consistency.

Logging in night after night for the purpose of progressing through the game's content > Logging in night after night to achieve some abstract notion of *uberness*

There's a reason why my WoW guild has adult couples who play every night, and it's not because they like to see how skilled they can get at killing level 71 elementals or how rich they can get selling crafted epics, nor because they get a thrill out of wtfpwning people. That is what a Star Wars MMO must tap into if it hopes to be competitive with WoW (and I think it can be, if LA wants it to be).
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:58 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Tommycat
I would say make it random force sensitivity. Not every person should be able to become a Jedi. Or alternately they could limit the number of jedi(and dark jedi) allowed to be logged in.
The problem with that is many will only want to be a Jedi. Why would I buy the game if it's possible I can't be a jedi (or have to keep creating players till it let's me)
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:23 AM   #128
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I think the way it was handled in the early SWG was quite fine, _everyone_ had a chance of becoming a Jedi but it was very very difficult and a long long path to which lets say "casual" players didnt have the time or dedication for. This way you will have some Jedi and some Sith which should afaik be part of a SW game esp if it is set in an area where these 2 partys battle each other.

It would be a terrible mistake to allow everyone to be a jedi from the start like it was in the later SWG, because Jedi are lets exaggerate abit, demi-gods in SW they are not only supposed to but indeed are stronger and more powerful than normal beings.

So if you let everyone roll a jedi from the start i can tell you 80% or more would do it, so the sultion would be to make jedis so "weak" that all other classes are on par with them and that would kinda screw it.

Another solution, one that would rather fit in an era with less jedis than there were around the KotOR timeline, would be to have gamemasters being jedi“s. But not like GM“s you know from WoW (ingame customer support) but rather as event/community manager, people who do afaik play the game run special quests talk with other people mby even participate in fights on one or another side or try to settle them by diplomacy.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:50 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by True_Avery
Having thousands of Jedi wouldn't make sense, but also having none would ruin the popularity of the game. It really depends on where in time the MMO would be set, and what the balance would be.

Having other player classes and limited Jedi is what made Galaxies work so well. It was when the patch came that let everybody be Jedi that killed the game once and for all. So, why not make a sort of Galaxies clone? It was a fantastic game up until LA gave in to the casual gamers and ruined it for everybody.

I dunno about you, but having thousands of Jedi running around buying stuff with credits, dancing naked in the streets and in bars getting smashed would ruin the game just as easy as if you couldn't play them at all. Besides, as has been said, Jedi are overrated to an extent.

I'd much rather be a professional Bounty Hunter or something, seeing as many of the better ones, like Jango and Boba, have been known to kill Jedi for a living. Being a Jedi would be fun, but having everybody be a Jedi or Sith would ruin the epic feeling very very quickly. Whats the point of being 1% of the galaxies population, gifted with supernatural powers and a beam of plasma when you are not unique in any way at all compaired to everybody else?

Remember, even as a Jedi you would not be Revan or Exile. You would be the Jedi cannon fodder that Revan and Exile killed like flies on their way from point A to point B.

Do I have a real opinion on how to do Jedi/Sith? No, not really. But, for the time being, I will trust Bioware with this seeing as they know more about making games than I do.
i strongly agree with this, you need jedi to keep people interested but however they shouldn't be as good as revan to start but with the ablility to get that good at a high level, also it would be fun to be a bounty hunter, or a soldier even, or even a mercinary.
You should also be able to choose your class, and speces, such as mandalorian, human, twilek, transhodian etc.


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Old 02-29-2008, 12:17 AM   #130
Rev7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatEvilDude
You should also be able to choose your class, and speces, such as mandalorian, human, twilek, transhodian etc.
In my opinion, having that choice would make the gameplay a LOT better.

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