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Old 06-21-2008, 07:40 PM   #1
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Arrow Debate:: Rewriting M4-78 and Droid Factory for “KotOR III” (Weekend: 6.21 & 6.22)

Debate:: Rewriting M4-78 and Droid Factory for “KotOR III” (Weekend: 6.21 & 6.22)
Welcome to the fourth installment of our “KotOR III” debate series.

If you think about how science-fiction is written, you will know that anything and everything could happen. Even though the Droid Factory and M4-78 were destined to be in “KotOR II”, they do have the potential for revision. Since the levels and stories are extremely popular, incorporating them into “KotOR III” would be a gold mine. Pushing aside any other topics connected to them, the Droid Factory and M4-78 storylines have captured our curiosity and imagination. If you were to read the “Star Wars: Essentials” books, the Droid Factory has made it into canonization. Since the first ‘Expanded Universe’ novels, writers have reinvented so many other canonized stories. George Lucas himself took the liberty to reinvent how the Force works. Writers consistently tweak, bend, and stretch already established paradigms. Over the past several decades, Boba Fett’s escape from the Sarlacc has been rewritten eight or nine times. Boba Fett’s escape from the Sarlacc Pit is a revision to the story, which George had originally created for the character’s end in “Return to the Jedi”. When you compare Boba Fett’s expansion and revisions to the Droid Factory and M4-78, you cannot help but to consider them for “KotOR III”. Maybe the Droid Factory had survived the events of “KotOR II”, and now the new player character has to face a larger HK-50 army. Is the HK-50 design in “KotOR II” the final droid upgrade to HK-47?

M4-78’s story can still be told, but through datapads and holograms. When it comes to the planet, M4-78 does have the potential for a “KotOR III” expansion. Even though the original story cannot be played out, the logic behind the planet can still be incorporated into a newer story. Since most of M4-78’s story is still unknown, learning about the events that took place in “KotOR II” would be interesting. What happened after the Exile left M4-78? What happened during the Sith occupation? Did the Exile even make it to M4-78? Could M4-78 be moved to the Unknown Regions?

When looking back at everything we learned about the Droid Factory and M4-78, the potential for revision and rebuilding them is possible. Everything we have learned could be wiped out, so that an entirely new concept and direction can take place. Maybe the HK-50s look entirely different to the HK-37s. Maybe the Exile and HK-47 never found the Droid Factory. Did Master Vash really make it to M4-78? If they were incorporated into a “KotOR III”, would you be open-minded to a revision?

CAUTION! SPOILERS MAY BE USED



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Old 06-21-2008, 08:00 PM   #2
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Depends what kind of revision. If they revised the story they thought they were going to use, and then changed the endings of their own untold storylines, so be it. But to say Master Vash got to M4-78 would be ridiculous. I looted her corpse, don't tell me she's alive now.

Anything that's not retcon is ok. It would have to be tricky in order to pass my scrutiny. But as long as all the rewriting takes place on the dev side and we aren't ever forced to change our canon, I'm fine with it.

And Boba Fett surviving the Sarlacc has always been bull****.

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Old 06-21-2008, 08:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnderWiggin View Post
Depends what kind of revision. If they revised the story they thought they were going to use, and then changed the endings of their own untold storylines, so be it. But to say Master Vash got to M4-78 would be ridiculous. I looted her corpse, don't tell me she's alive now.

Anything that's not retcon is ok. It would have to be tricky in order to pass my scrutiny. But as long as all the rewriting takes place on the dev side and we aren't ever forced to change our canon, I'm fine with it.

And Boba Fett surviving the Sarlacc has always been bull****.

_EW_
Quick question: What does 'recon' mean? I know the other definition, which has to do with military operations.



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Old 06-21-2008, 08:30 PM   #4
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Quick question: What does 'recon' mean? I know the other definition, which has to do with military operations.
You mean, "Retcon". It basically means Canon which someone has gone back and changed. A good example of this is the Special Editions of the movies.

EDIT: By the way, is there a set time to start discussing?
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:17 PM   #5
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And Boba Fett surviving the Sarlacc has always been bull****.
A lot of things can happen in the five or six hundred years it takes for it to digest something.


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Old 06-21-2008, 10:08 PM   #6
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Well, you could've said the same about Sleheyron, however Sleheyron isn't as popular as M4-78, and most of the modules were cut. It could end up as an edited version like Korriban and Dantooine.



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Old 06-21-2008, 10:15 PM   #7
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I think that it might be kinda cool to have those planets in KotOR III (if it ever comes out, of course. :|). I personally don't know very much about M4-78, so I guess that I will have to do some research.

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Old 06-21-2008, 11:57 PM   #8
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Droid factory's out, since it has already been canonically tied to K2. I don't see the point of putting M4-78 or Sleheyron in K3, though. They most likely wouldn't have anything to do with the plot, and there'd be no point in going there other than the sake of going there because they were cut from the previous games.


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Old 06-22-2008, 08:43 AM   #9
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Err... What? Both games had something you go to each planet for. I'd think if they put in a planet cut from one of the games there would be a pretty good reason to go to it.

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Old 06-22-2008, 01:42 PM   #10
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Linear thinking is always tough for some people to get passed. When it comes to the Droid Factory’s storyline, I think there is great potential. Even though a particular story was given to the factory in “KotOR II”, good story tellers can do anything. Keep in mind that the Droid Factory was cut from game. Regardless about the reasons for its edit, the events of the Droid Factory never really happened in game. Exile never really made it to the Droid Factory in game, so that leaves the story line open for something new.



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Old 06-22-2008, 02:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by GiygasUnlimited View Post
Both games had something you go to each planet for. I'd think if they put in a planet cut from one of the games there would be a pretty good reason to go to it.
That's exactly what I'm saying. The only reason to go to that planet would be because it happened to be cut from a previous game. The reason you would have gone to Sleheyron in K1 was to search for the Star Map, as for M4-78, it was to find Vash. How is either relevant in K3? They're not. So if you're going to make up a whole different reason for going to that planet, may as well just make it a planet we've never seen before, or not seen much of.


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Old 06-22-2008, 03:44 PM   #12
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The only reason to go to that planet would be because it happened to be cut from a previous game.
I'm saying that they could do something else. In TSL did you go to Korriban to look for a Star Map? Didn't think so.

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The reason you would have gone to Sleheyron in K1 was to search for the Star Map, as for M4-78, it was to find Vash. How is either relevant in K3? They're not.
So you're saying if Obsidian had Sleheyron in as a planet you would've gone there for a Star Map and not a Jedi Master?

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So if you're going to make up a whole different reason for going to that planet, may as well just make it a planet we've never seen before, or not seen much of.
Not really, Dantooine and Korriban were in TSL. And besides, if they used a cut planet they wouldn't have to do as much modeling.

P.S. They're cut planets so not everyone has seen what they look like.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by GiygasUnlimited View Post
I'm saying that they could do something else. In TSL did you go to Korriban to look for a Star Map? Didn't think so.
Quote:
So you're saying if Obsidian had Sleheyron in as a planet you would've gone there for a Star Map and not a Jedi Master?
No, I'm saying they would have made up another reason. If you're going to make up another reason, why not make up another planet?

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Not really, Dantooine and Korriban were in TSL.
And Dantooine and Korriban sucked in K2.

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And besides, if they used a cut planet they wouldn't have to do as much modeling.
Odds are they'll have to anyway, given how old the Aurora engine is.

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P.S. They're cut planets so not everyone has seen what they look like.
Yeah, but just about everyone here has.


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Old 06-22-2008, 05:37 PM   #14
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And Dantooine and Korriban sucked in K2.
I wasn't saying whether they sucked, I was pointing out the flaw in your statement.

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Odds are they'll have to anyway, given how old the Aurora engine is.
Not even going there.

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Yeah, but just about everyone here has.
So? Not everyone who has played the game has.

To add a bit to my argument I'll add this; in KotOR you were looking for star maps, in TSL you were looking for the Jedi Masters. Let's say we're looking for Rimrods in K3, but suppose I have to go to Manaan again because there's a Rimrod there. Would you say they should've done a different planet?

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Old 06-22-2008, 10:42 PM   #15
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Let's say we're looking for Rimrods in K3, but suppose I have to go to Manaan again because there's a Rimrod there. Would you say they should've done a different planet?
Yes.


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Old 06-23-2008, 12:13 AM   #16
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Why should they *have* to create a new planet for a new idea? I'm not saying that they need to re-gurgitate Korriban or Dantooine again, but it would be nice to see one or two of the old planets with new areas and different looks. Should we have completely new characters (No HK-47) and ships also (Ebon Hawk)?



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Old 06-23-2008, 02:45 AM   #17
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Are you picking on HK Sithspecter?

I think that we should have some new characters in KotOR III. That is what happened in KotOR II. Why shouldn't it happen in KotOR III? I also think that it might be nice to get a new ship. Maybe start out with the Ebon Hawk and aquire/buy/trade it in for a new ship. I know that there are some flaws that come with that, but I want a little something new. One of the flaws would obviously be that the Ebon Hawk happens to be one of the fastest ships in the galaxy (or so it says in the game). One might think that it would be horrific if you got a new ship. I definately think that it would have some trade offs.

As for exploring different areas on the same planet, I personally think that it would be awesome to have that. I know that I have said that before. Only being able to visit three or four different modules on a planet, is not a whole lot. However, I know that it could be a little bit hard to manage, and even harder to make. Regardless, I think that it would be a great idea, but I still say that there sould be some new planets involved in this game.

Well, that was a little off topic.

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Old 06-23-2008, 03:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCarter426 View Post
Odds are they'll have to anyway, given how old the Aurora engine is.
KotOR uses the Oddessy engine.

Naw, not pickin' on HK, he's my favorite. It wouldn't be KotOR 3 without him... Anyway, new characters, yes, of course, that's to be expected, but we still want to see a few of the old ones return, don't we? I would like to also see some of the K1 characters that weren't in K2 to make an appearance. I think that M4-78 wouldn't be so bad for KotOR 3, given it's popularity. It's already modeled, and it would speed production.

About the Ebon Hawk, well, I guess it being in both games makes it a little redundant, but I think it should make an appearance, whether junked or as the player's ship for a while.



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Old 06-23-2008, 07:44 AM   #19
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KotOR uses the Oddessy engine.
...which is just an updated version of the Aurora engine.

In any case, all I'm saying is that it's easier (and often better) to make a setting fit a story, rather than to make a story fit a setting.


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Old 06-23-2008, 09:57 AM   #20
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Yes.
I don't think I worded that correctly. I mean "What if it’s necessary to have it be that planet?"

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Old 06-23-2008, 11:22 AM   #21
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(see above)

It's only necessary if the writers make it necessary. That'd be stretching the story to fit the setting, most often putting a limit on both.


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Old 06-23-2008, 12:57 PM   #22
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Let's say the writers want to have a droid planet, I think it would make more sense if they used M4-78 instead of making another droid planet.
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Old 06-23-2008, 02:32 PM   #23
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Well, now you're changing the scenario.


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Old 06-23-2008, 05:23 PM   #24
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Well, now you're changing the scenario.
Not really, wouldn't you think it would be a bit strange if there were two water planets that have Kolto deposits and the native species is Selkath?
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Old 06-24-2008, 08:20 AM   #25
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Now you're really stretching the scenario. Making a story fit an already existing planet is one thing, and making a story fit a new planet that is exactly like that already existing planet is no different.


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Old 06-24-2008, 10:22 AM   #26
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What you were saying is that if someone wanted to include a planet that had already "appeared" in one of the games, they shouldn't. So then if they had wanted to do M4-78 they should stretch the story to fit a different setting? Or cut it and have everyone promote it again?
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:38 AM   #27
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What you were saying is that if someone wanted to include a planet that had already "appeared" in one of the games, they shouldn't.
No, I said they shouldn't have it appear just for the sake of having it appear.


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Old 06-24-2008, 01:13 PM   #28
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Let's say we're looking for Rimrods in K3, but suppose I have to go to Manaan again because there's a Rimrod there. Would you say they should've done a different planet?
Yes.
I wouldn't say that would be putting it in there just for it to appear.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:15 PM   #29
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No, I said they shouldn't have it appear just for the sake of having it appear.
But what he's saying is that it's not a bad thing to use the same planet again if you have a legitimate reason to go to the planet again, ie, if Selkath themselves are part of the K3 story, you should go to Manaan. I do agree with you on the point that they shouldn't reuse planets just because they can, but there's nothing wrong with seeing a familiar place or two. It makes the series feel more connected, too.


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