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Old 09-16-2008, 09:06 AM   #41
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There is no "grey side". Grey Jedi = a Jedi who is considered to operate outside the [perceived] limitations of the Jedi Council's orders and such.
Hence the quotes on it. grey philosophy would be a better term, perhaps.

At any rate, the point is that to remain neutral, it wouldn't be necessary to do bad stuff here and good ones there just so your alignment doesn't shift.


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Old 09-16-2008, 11:55 AM   #42
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What does neutral mean, then?


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Old 09-16-2008, 12:05 PM   #43
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Hence the quotes on it. grey philosophy would be a better term, perhaps.

At any rate, the point is that to remain neutral, it wouldn't be necessary to do bad stuff here and good ones there just so your alignment doesn't shift.
If you were neutral you wouldn't be doing anything, because you'd be neutral.

You're not neutral if you do some good and bad. I don't know what that would be, but it's not neutral.






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Old 09-16-2008, 02:32 PM   #44
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if you do an equal amount of good and bad, then your right in the middle. Not aligning yourself to either side, and are therefore neutral.
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Old 09-16-2008, 02:46 PM   #45
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if you do an equal amount of good and bad, then your right in the middle. Not aligning yourself to either side, and are therefore neutral.
Well, there's plenty of definitions of neutral:

Neutral

Adjective

Not taking sides in a conflict such as war; nonaligned.
Favouring neither the supporting nor opposing viewpoint of a topic of debate; unbiased.
Neither beneficial nor harmful.
Having no sex; neuter.
Having no obvious colour; gray

So, doing equal amounts of good and bad is not neutrality.






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Old 09-16-2008, 02:57 PM   #46
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Frankly, it seems more likely that the Jedi are the neutered ones. Only a eunuch could control their emotions that well.
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Old 09-16-2008, 06:36 PM   #47
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Neither beneficial nor harmful.

[...]

So, doing equal amounts of good and bad is not neutrality.
Indeed, and that's why we need neutral course of actions.


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Old 09-16-2008, 07:02 PM   #48
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I agree, but being neutral shouldn't mean that you wouldn't do anything. Just like in TSL there are actions/choices you can make that will not render you dark or light side points, that could be seen as a grey side point. However, "actual" grey side points would be nice for all of the reasons stated in the earlier posts...


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Old 09-16-2008, 07:08 PM   #49
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THERE IS NO GREY SIDE.
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:18 PM   #50
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Just like there "really" isn't any Light or Dark side of the force


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Old 09-16-2008, 08:03 PM   #51
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I'd like a source for that, aside from an in-universe theory which is disproven by the fundamental nature of how the Force works as demonstrated in the movies.


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Old 09-18-2008, 12:09 AM   #52
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http://pc.ign.com/articles/910/910963p1.html

Discuss.


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Old 10-01-2008, 02:54 PM   #53
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Grey Jedi: I think Jedi like Bindo were really Grey but not "neutral." I think Grey is still good or bad: Bindo was grey/good Kreia was, I think at one point, grey/evil. But neither one would do things like give away the Ebon Hawk or adhere strictly to the Jedi Code, nor would they kill in cold blood. I think it would be cool to have a "grey" side: but it isn't neutral, it is still good or evil, merely less idealogical.

What should be in Kotor III: I like a lot of your various ideas, but just remember that Kotor II seemed to try to do too much and had to get cut down. It could have been better plotwise if they had been less ambitious about putting in all the bells and whistles. Kotor I with a new good plot is my idea of a good new game.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:26 PM   #54
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See, there's a flaw in that. Jolee Bindo was, alignment meter not withstanding, pretty clearly Light-Sided. He had a few screws loose, just a wee bit bonkers, but he was still Light-Sided.

Kreia, on the other hand, was using an ability those of us familiar with DND would know as 'Alignment Undetectable'.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:26 PM   #55
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THERE IS NO GREY SIDE.
Actually, there is. It's a view that the Jedi opposed called the Potentium. Here's a link to an article on the Force, and it has a whole section on it.

The Force


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:31 PM   #56
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I am familiar with the Potentium. It's incorrect. Which is a pity, because I find the idea far more interesting than Light/Dark Sides, neither of which really ever made any sense. It's out-and-out stated to be a corrupting path by 'Path of the Jedi'. I find that to be a load of crap, but it's canon.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:39 PM   #57
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Actually, there is. It's a view that the Jedi opposed called the Potentium. Here's a link to an article on the Force, and it has a whole section on it.
First off, there is no gray side. There's [the] light and dark [sides], with their own powers and specific emotions related to them. Nowhere does that article (or any Star Wars material, canon or non-canon) mention a "gray side". Furthermore, nowhere is Potentium called the "gray philosophy".

Quote:
I am familiar with the Potentium. It's incorrect. Which is a pity, because I find the idea far more interesting than Light/Dark Sides, neither of which really ever made any sense. It's out-and-out stated to be a corrupting path by 'Path of the Jedi'. I find that to be a load of crap, but it's canon.
If I may quote someone else on this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqexe
The Potentium heresy is heresy for a reason. Channeling the Dark Side ultimately corrupts you. It's incompatible with the Light Side. Palpatine used the Potentium heresy to attempt to lure Anakin in Ep III (the scene where Anakin tells Palpatine that Obi-Wan's engaged Grievous). Vergere, a fallen Jedi who came under instruction of Palpatine, used the Potentium heresy to lure Jacen, who ultimately fell to the Dark Side, believing he could master both sides. Yoda hunted down Potentium heretics at some point because of the danger of the Potentium theory in luring people to the Dark Side. Looking further back, there were the examples of Ulic Qel-Droma, Kreia, and even Revan.
The Potentium isn't even a philosophy. It's just a bunch of in-universe characters splitting hairs about evil being within people instead of the Force (like that makes any difference) so the authors can ignore the corrupting effects that the dark side has demonstrated pretty much since the beginning, and allow Jedi to use Force lightning (for example) in their writing. Potentium doesn't add anything new to the story as people seem to think it would. Worse yet, Potentium has (as Endorenna, along with numerous other people have demonstrated) given birth to numerous unsupported fanon theories about the Force having a third side instead of just two, a concept which Potentium never even hints at.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia

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Old 10-01-2008, 05:03 PM   #58
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Thanks for correcting me. I'm not really into the Star Wars novels, so I can't quote what they say in them. When I read the Potentium theory, I thought it was supported by the Legacy series (from the mention of Vergere), which is considered canon.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:08 PM   #59
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Thanks for correcting me. I'm not really into the Star Wars novels, so I can't quote what they say in them. When I read the Potentium theory, I thought it was supported by the Legacy series (from the mention of Vergere), which is considered canon.
Vergere is ultimately revealed to be a Sith, so there's your reason why she would support such heresy.






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Old 10-01-2008, 05:13 PM   #60
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Okay, thanks again! I think the last time I read about her was...three years ago?


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-02-2008, 10:31 AM   #61
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perhaps they should introduce a new faction of Grey jedi? Not good or evild, but doing their own thing.
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Old 10-02-2008, 01:25 PM   #62
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1) In kotor 2 you were always forced to have a defined alignment. Kreia wouldn't learn you stuff or let you progress unless you were either bad or good. I would like that neutralism also be a variant. That means separate ending

2) Kotor 2 revolves a lot on being a jedi. K1 isn't like that at least in beginning. I would like the main character to have a the choice of how long he will stay as a soldier/scoundrel/scout. But both soldier and jedi guardian to be equilibrated. Cause in K1/2 if you let a soldier and a jedi guardian fight, both with auto level up at highest level, the jedi guardian will win...

3) HUGE BATTLE! Like to have several HUGE battles. Skirmishes. Yeah, maybe a side quest in wich you must aid... some army in some battles. But big ones. With like (if it's possible :P ) hundreds of NPCs holding their line, in a fortified position. And you can call air support and things like that!

4) Improved combat engine. Yeah... At least for blasters. I don't want it to exactly be a shooter. But something mixed. Like let you aim and fire and there should be like an auto aim, but not that aimish, so you can also have parts of it, and if you have specific attributes high ( like strength) and feats, your chances of hit and you auto aim will increase.
And as for melee, something similar to Oblivion, but modified in slightly more RPGish.

5) Like, the party member selection screen not to be hardcoded, so we can have mods that let you have all the party members with ya xD.

6) Revan and The Exile in your party through the ends of the game.

7)A larger plot, larger quests, larger dialogs, and an overall improvement at the game's feeling.


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Old 10-02-2008, 02:52 PM   #63
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Quote:
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1) In kotor 2 you were always forced to have a defined alignment. Kreia wouldn't learn you stuff or let you progress unless you were either bad or good. I would like that neutralism also be a variant. That means separate ending
Being neutral won't get you anywhere. And you aren't FORCED to have an alignment. It's just helpful if you do have one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheExile
2) Kotor 2 revolves a lot on being a jedi. K1 isn't like that at least in beginning. I would like the main character to have a the choice of how long he will stay as a soldier/scoundrel/scout. But both soldier and jedi guardian to be equilibrated. Cause in K1/2 if you let a soldier and a jedi guardian fight, both with auto level up at highest level, the jedi guardian will win...
You could hardly call the games Knights of the Old Republic if the main part wasn't about Jedi.

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Originally Posted by TheExile
3) HUGE BATTLE! Like to have several HUGE battles. Skirmishes. Yeah, maybe a side quest in wich you must aid... some army in some battles. But big ones. With like (if it's possible :P ) hundreds of NPCs holding their line, in a fortified position. And you can call air support and things like that!
That sounds... like too much. I'd much rather stick with the smaller conflicts.

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4) Improved combat engine. Yeah... At least for blasters. I don't want it to exactly be a shooter. But something mixed. Like let you aim and fire and there should be like an auto aim, but not that aimish, so you can also have parts of it, and if you have specific attributes high ( like strength) and feats, your chances of hit and you auto aim will increase.
And as for melee, something similar to Oblivion, but modified in slightly more RPGish.
No. It wouldn't be Kotor if they changed the system. It's based on D20 rules, and that's how it should stay.

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Originally Posted by TheExile
5) Like, the party member selection screen not to be hardcoded, so we can have mods that let you have all the party members with ya xD.
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheExile
6) Revan and The Exile in your party through the ends of the game.
Big, super-duper NO on that one. I dislike Revan, and I don't want him getting in the way of the game.

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Originally Posted by TheExile
7)A larger plot, larger quests, larger dialogs, and an overall improvement at the game's feeling.
Saving the Universe isn't enough?






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Old 10-02-2008, 05:56 PM   #64
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I wouldn't mind an improvement in the combat system...aiming is always nice, as well as strong/medium/light attack buttons...but it probably wouldn't feel like KOTOR if they did!


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 10-03-2008, 01:35 PM   #65
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4) Improved combat engine. Yeah... At least for blasters. I don't want it to exactly be a shooter. But something mixed. Like let you aim and fire and there should be like an auto aim, but not that aimish, so you can also have parts of it, and if you have specific attributes high ( like strength) and feats, your chances of hit and you auto aim will increase.
And as for melee, something similar to Oblivion, but modified in slightly more RPGish.
I've had my say on Kotor combat system so many times... I surely wished the d20 was extinct, but not if it's replaced by the Oblicion one, ugh. I've said and repeated, FFXII would be the way to go.


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Old 10-05-2008, 05:51 PM   #66
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In KOTOR 3 I'd like to see things that point towards images of the future. Meaning beginnings of work on making republic soldiers super. To point towards clone troopers. Beginnings of technology in laser developement on destroying cities and work towards expanding that to destroying planets.

Basically signs and images the characters see in the game that elude towards the current star wars movies. And the ability to effect that future. Since in KOTR 1 you were able to effect the future so much I think if Bioware does that game they should revive that theme in KOTOR 3. I think it should be of next gen technology and of course Revan should return.


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Old 10-05-2008, 07:40 PM   #67
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The only thing I really want to see beyond a game that's actually properly finished is blasters not sucking.
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:21 AM   #68
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stuff i'd like to see:

1.after all this waiting, i want a GOOD STORY! as good or better than k1!

2.animations, animations, and MORE animations! i'd like to see uncountable, different animations in there. i find the same movements in dialogue again and again kinda boring. there should be special animations that are, only used once and the like. and especially in combat. each character having different fighting styles. y'know, keep it 'fresh'. imagine playing the game for ages and then seeing animations you havnt seen before? it would make battles so much better to watch.

3. i want to find out what happens to revan and exile. it would be great IMO if we saw characters from the previous games.

4.customizable ships! the ebon hawk was nearly totaled on malachor, and IMO instead of scrapping it, i'd like to build it! change it's look! as much customization as weapons in k2, maybe more! (imagine 'need for speed level' customization...) and maybe even get a different ship if you want, like zonama sekot ships! (if they are around back then) and meditation spheres.



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 10-18-2008, 02:26 AM   #69
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Number 1 on my list: Divergent storylines. One for Jedi/Republic; one for Sith. I'm fed up with the only real difference to the story being the texture of your face...TSL was the worst in that respect.

Number 2: More customisation options - face, hair, unique robes/capes, sabre hilts, etc.

Number 3: CORUSCANT!!

Number 4: A better ship!

That's all for now...
A must.


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Old 11-10-2008, 02:14 AM   #70
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Some things that would fix the mistakes it's older brothers made:

1 - As said before, the same planets are boring. And I will not buy the game if there is no Coruscant (this could be a jk)

2 - No main villians following you around until they reveal themselves in a final boss battle followed by their apprentices (I'm looking at you, Kreia)

3 - Please (oh plz!) don't have you're party members knocked out at a crucial moment, leaving you to escape a Sith base while dragging your unconscious teammates to safety and/or fight a super tough Mark III droid with dozens of gadgets when you're only at level 2

4 - No old man, no humor. Keep it real

5 - Don't stick us on a planet at the beginning of the game that takes 2 weeks to beat to get the ship and visit other planets (Example: Taris, Peragus Mining Facility )

That is all








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Old 11-10-2008, 03:04 AM   #71
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I'd like to see some of the old party members show up in some way or form, like a mention of Mission, some item that once belonged to Juhani, that sort of thing
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Old 11-10-2008, 04:09 PM   #72
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What do I want to see in KOTOR III? Not an MMO


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Old 11-10-2008, 11:55 PM   #73
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:08 AM   #74
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More lightsaber combat things as well as powers. Left handedness.
Customizable character body and apparel (smackdown to MK/Soul Caliber)
More hand to hand. More melee.

Elaborate on the past 2 a little while somehow drawing the series to a clean playthrough.
A Dignified conclusion to the series as well as having a story all its own.


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Old 11-24-2008, 05:42 PM   #75
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More lightsaber combat things as well as powers. Left handedness.
Customizable character body and apparel (smackdown to MK/Soul Caliber)
More hand to hand. More melee.

Elaborate on the past 2 a little while somehow drawing the series to a clean playthrough.
A Dignified conclusion to the series as well as having a story all its own.
Something like a seamless movement transition for the D20 engine?


Yesterday is history. Tomorrow, a mystery. Today is a gift...that is why it is called the present.
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Old 04-13-2009, 08:02 PM   #76
Tagren
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I think party members get shoe horned in quite early on in the Kotor's, I'd like to see/feel a bit more isolation to be honest.

Also I want a more linear story, not a big fan of "your choices will affect the galaxy" because if you accidentally click a button or your cat treads on the mouse or keyboard then thats it, you might have told Atton to get ******** and **** with *** etc. losing influence or closing doors to other more interesting roads.

I also don't like "two years later", what's the point? I want to know what happened where we left off, particularly at the end of number 2.

We've visited several places in Kotor, and new places in Kotor 2 with some old ones chucked in for fans - now it's time for the unknown, chuck the player in the deep end of the swimming pool with the fast and trained swimmers, not with the little kids wearing armbands with the fat lady teaching them the breast stroke.

I've got a little title crawl and event list for a third game that I wrote when I started my screenwriting course, it's how I'd do it or like to see it done. It's apparent that Kotor 3 won't happen untill bioware and Lucasarts bring in the bucks from their MMO.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:59 AM   #77
Clanker Killer
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I would say....

1. "Known" worlds like Naboo, Geonosis or even Mustefar.
2. A choice to become a Jedi or Sith(Like a Jedi academy and Sith academy) or none.
3. Custom lightsaber building.
4. Choosing your species =)
5. A better story and ending.
6. Your choices effect the story alot.

This is kinda what I think...

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron 7 locke View Post
I'd like to see some of the old party members show up in some way or form, like a mention of Mission, some item that once belonged to Juhani, that sort of thing
Oh yes! That would be great! Like they talk of the old legends!
Or they find Bastila's holocron or Mission's kids and stuff. Mission has to come back!!!


~Clanker Killer~

Last edited by RedHawke; 04-15-2009 at 03:24 AM. Reason: Combined DP...
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:22 AM   #78
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What i think would be cool would be if you started the game as a child in your home town, then a jedi comes to the town feels the force in you and takes you to learn the ways of the force and become a jedi. Then have the next part of the game, you as a child learning to be a jedi and such before becoming a full jedi and traveling out into the world to take on whatever mission. (kind of like in Fable)

Edit: also being able to jump would be cool.i loved being able to jump during combat in jedi academy.fighting them from one place the n jumping over them or onto a higher area. that was cool

Last edited by RedHawke; 04-27-2009 at 04:08 AM. Reason: Combined Double Post & Fixed the accidental thread... ;)
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Old 04-29-2009, 05:51 AM   #79
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Things You'd Like to See in KotOR III.

How about an actual KotOR III instead of being pigeon-holed with this MMO s***?


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 04-29-2009, 12:35 PM   #80
Lord of Hunger
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What a KOTOR III has to have: Either the Jedi improve instead of being the lofty, egotistical hypocrites they have always been, or they need to be the villains. You can not honestly tell me that the Jedi are the good guys after TSL, let alone their rampant inaction in KOTOR.

Also, lightsaber/blaster/melee weapon customization is a must. Unique hilts, blasters that change appearance when modified, and melee weapons that change appearance when modified.

Multiple endings, obviously.

Lots of planets. Epic scope.

A whole mess of organizations. Not just Republic/Sith/Czerka/Exchange, I mean lots of organizations with unique individuals.

All NPCs must have unique appearances. No more low poly models, or repetitions of the same NPCs.

Very diverse plot, massive amounts of side-quests.


As of 3/14/10, TSL is restored. The Sith Lords Restored Content Modification by Stoney and Zbyl has been finished and can be downloaded here.

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