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Old 08-22-2008, 10:04 PM   #1
Revan 411
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KOTOR III's Combat System.

I would love to see a improved next gen KOTOR III, and part of that is the combat system.

Now, I like the combat in KOTOR I and KOTOR II, but it repeats it self over and over again, KOTOR II solves that problem by adding more combat animations.

So, the combat system could use a serious re haul, but keep the turn based system still in tact.

I like turn based, in KOTOR, its very hard to notice it, and most RPG's have some turn based combat to it, (Jade Empire, Never Winter Nights, PlaneScape Torment, Final Fantasy, etc)

So, I would love to see a different combat experience in KOTOR III, but still keep the turn based thing going.

Discuss.


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Old 08-22-2008, 10:58 PM   #2
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I guess if you want to keep that KotOR feel, stick with the same system. Although d20 sucks very much in my opinion.


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Old 08-22-2008, 11:14 PM   #3
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They just need to add a lot more animations to the battle and allow you to fling objects at enemies during battle with the force.
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Old 08-22-2008, 11:17 PM   #4
Revan 411
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Although d20 sucks very much in my opinion.
I agree with you. The D20 system is very, very, outdated, so if they can try to keep the Turn Based style and get rid of the D20 system, and replace it with something more better, then that would help out a lot.

I never really liked it that much, turn based was great, but D20?! No!


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Old 08-23-2008, 12:04 AM   #5
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As far as systems go, I always thought that Star Wars would adapt well to to AEG's "Roll and Keep" system that they use in Legend of the Five Rings. The character progression isn't linear, there is more room for customization, and the combat is more lethal at all levels of play(where high level D20 feels like two kids in a schoolyard trading punches). It has a class system, but the classes only have a few levels and they teach you specific techniques(lightsaber forms, maybe?). The major variables(attack, defense, physical attributes, skills, etc) are all improved by the spending of character points, much like White Wolf's systems. It even has a trait, void, that could be easily adapted to the Force.

Since that will never happen in an official manner, I vote for the use of Star Wars Saga Edition. It's D20, but with a serious overhaul that improves the gameplay dramatically.
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Old 08-23-2008, 12:18 AM   #6
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I like your idea actually, it could work out...

I just wish I was the developers or KOTOR III so I could use your idea...


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Old 08-23-2008, 12:27 AM   #7
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Since that will never happen in an official manner, I vote for the use of Star Wars Saga Edition. It's D20, but with a serious overhaul that improves the gameplay dramatically.
With making the game an entirely new series, the Star Wars Saga Edition would be the change I would want to see.

If they were to do a different Star Wars RPG. I'd love to see them use G.U.R.P.S..


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Old 08-23-2008, 05:07 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Revan 411 View Post
I would love to see a improved next gen KOTOR III, and part of that is the combat system.

Now, I like the combat in KOTOR I and KOTOR II, but it repeats it self over and over again, KOTOR II solves that problem by adding more combat animations.

So, the combat system could use a serious re haul, but keep the turn based system still in tact.

I like turn based, in KOTOR, its very hard to notice it, and most RPG's have some turn based combat to it, (Jade Empire, Never Winter Nights, PlaneScape Torment, Final Fantasy, etc)

So, I would love to see a different combat experience in KOTOR III, but still keep the turn based thing going.

Discuss.

Well, I'd agree on the overhaul. In fact, I would say--though a tad specific for most people, I would like there to be options for left handedness, and ambidextrious primary hand.

Honestly, about the engine, I'm more an action buff myself, so I'm not so sure about it all with turn based. I kinda only came 'cuz it's SW. Tho, mass efect wasn't too bad.

As far as combat:

LIGHTSABER FORMS, now obviously it's going to depend greatly on the time period. I know, I know...form V Djem-So is developed between K2 and 3,000 years later when Darth Bane takes over the sith and decrees the "rule of two". But, c'mon, other forms don't need to suck SOO badly in one area and only be mediocre in another...or great in another...Anyone on the up and up in wookieepedia sort of already knows what I'm talking about. Ataru can't effectively block blaster bolts? WTF? Then what was episode 1? Cheese?

BTW--wouldn't hurt if the EU was a little more in keeping with Nick Gillard's descriptions--every form is a mix of various sword forms!!!
People try to make this dumbed-down distiction that form II Makashi is only fencing and Form V Djem-So is only kendo? Personal experience, I done both. Fencer usually runs kendoist through first and kendoist's reflex down comes the shinai to whack the fencer in the head. Double kill. Not gonna argue which one's "better" because "if something is better than something, then anything is anything"(Miyamoto Musashi) ---so what? A martial art is good judged on how effective it is for its intended use, and life throws some strange ones. You might think one is necessarily better, but it depends on the situation, which back to my point is what I DID like about the lightsaber combat system.
Hm, well, Dooku uses 2 hands fairly often--not very fencing-like though there are many moves from it. Also, Makashi sounds awfully similar to Musashi--Japan's greatest sword duelist. I think form 2 has some japanese to it as well Like saber-challenge, or blade leveraging...mostly katana blade refinement that I'm aware of--though I'd love to see any euroblade info on it. .......poor obi-wan could've lost an arm. Point being both are duelist forms, not necessarily counter to one another.

Anakin/Vader: ditto, I'd say some rapier & sabre, mostly a sort of bastard sword kendo-ish viking broadsword form.


There ought to be a levelling up or mastery system, too. Thisone I'll leave to the imagination.

MORE FORMS: I'd like to see some of the other forms.
Form zero...WAS this invented by yoda or had it already been around? (info here would be nice)--anyway, it's basically Iaido for lightsabers. Hold until the absolute last moment--strike...and you leave behind headless corpses. Re-sheath. --much cooler how Yodie boy does it often with the force.

Form X Jar-Kai: the two lightsaber form. Yes I realize that it can be done as is-duh. I'm talking an added bonus. Like one form on the side your character learns initially. As character progresses, form gets better and stats change.
Or, if one reaches, say, roughly 75% of total level up and has also learned form VI niman, MASTER jar-kai, complete, lethal, and utter effectiveness with the 2 blade form.

I'm not sure to what extent it is so for other forms.
Remainders:

double-bladed (should just be available initially and improves as you use it and level up)

Shien form IX: this is the inverted version of form V shien. Could it have been invented before Djem-So became Shien (V)'s co-form?

Form VIII Sokan: an acrobatic form...to the best I can tell this used to be around before form IV Ataru. Perhaps its basis. Form IV is basically as either force enhanced movements AND/OR acrobatic. Maybe a little study into chinese bladework and fillipino stick fighting?

Why not a sort of Jeet-kune-doe method of take what works and ditch what doesn't to make up an individual form? --don't tell me, let me guess, that's SUPPOSED to be implied throughout training but to give such credibility to the individual is vanity and unbecoming a jedi? Unneccessarily focuses on trifles for sith? BS! Try telling Drallig, Windu, or their apprentices that drek...
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:35 PM   #9
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I've grown tired of saying this time and time again but here it goes. FFXII system would fit perfectly on a new Kotor game.


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Old 08-23-2008, 11:45 PM   #10
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FFXII system would fit perfectly on a new Kotor game.
It would, but that system is messed up.

Seriously, the number 1 complaint I had with FF12 was the combat. It was so messed up, I mean It was extremely annoying, I hated that system.

Plus, KOTOR III just needs to be mixed with some real time and turn based combat.

Or... I'm not really sure...


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Old 08-24-2008, 12:02 AM   #11
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Don't change the Combat System greatly. Improve it, yes. Change it to something entirely different, no. We had the same system in K1 and K2, changing it for K3 is a bad idea.
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Old 08-24-2008, 02:03 AM   #12
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Well if they were going to keep it the same(D20), then I would at least recommend changing to the Saga Edition rules. That improved the Star Wars RPG so much.
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Old 08-24-2008, 09:55 AM   #13
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Don't change the Combat System greatly. Improve it, yes. Change it to something entirely different, no. We had the same system in K1 and K2, changing it for K3 is a bad idea.
Exactly. There's no question that the system could use some improvements, but completely changing it, changing the gameplay so significantly, isn't really a good idea.
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Old 08-24-2008, 12:26 PM   #14
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I say keep the underlying premise of the system, but remove the turn-based aspect and the need to pause during combat. That would mean overhauling the game's AI (which is rubbish, so that's a given) and adding new combat styles (for instance, whether to use flurry or critical strike, offensive or defensive Force powers, etc) so combat doesn't become a repetitive pause-->issue commands to each party member-->pause-->issue more commands.


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Old 08-24-2008, 02:15 PM   #15
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2 easy steps to eliminate the pause feature:

1) Don't pause the game.
2) No, seriously, no one is forcing you to pause it.

It's even backwards compatible!
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Old 08-24-2008, 03:07 PM   #16
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Except then the terrible AI gets all your party members killed.


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Old 08-24-2008, 03:30 PM   #17
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Which is why I do not heckle your AI upgrade proposal. But really, there isn't much of a reason I can think of to not have the ability to pause in a RPG. Well unless the acronym is preceded by the letters "MMO." If it's an action/adventure game you want, then there is always The Force Unleashed. I'd call that game over the top, but then I remember that
spoiler:
Nihilus kills planets.



PS Why does Nihilus trip the spell check on a KOTOR board anyway?

PPS Or KOTOR for that matter?

PPPS Jedi. Nope. Just checking.
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Old 08-24-2008, 03:37 PM   #18
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Which is why I do not heckle your AI upgrade proposal. But really, there isn't much of a reason I can think of to not have the ability to pause in a RPG.
I didn't say the ability shouldn't be there; rather, the need.

As for Nihilus, his greatest strength becomes his greatest weakness.


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Old 08-24-2008, 04:23 PM   #19
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It would, but that system is messed up.

Seriously, the number 1 complaint I had with FF12 was the combat. It was so messed up, I mean It was extremely annoying, I hated that system.
To each his opinion, I guess. But instead of saying that you hated it time and time again you could care to give a reason as to why you didn't liked it.

Methinks the system can be both fast-paced or slower, it really can fit a vast array of players.


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Old 08-24-2008, 06:53 PM   #20
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Adding like 5 or 6 new force powers would also do wonders.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:24 PM   #21
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I wouldn't mind seeing the Mass Effect or even Jade Empire style combat system. THough the only thing I wouldn't want with the Jade Empire system is the wall that keeps you in the battle arena.


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Old 11-24-2008, 10:10 AM   #22
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Animations for each lightsaber Form would be cool, more exciting lightsaber dueling, that is if they include the forms to use.
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:50 PM   #23
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Better to just stick with what works best, but seeing as how KOTOR III is an MMO...


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Old 11-24-2008, 06:19 PM   #24
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I mentioned that K3 should take some ideas from Mass Effect in a topic recently, but the combat isn't totally appropriate. It's action based, you actually control your attacks, and can do things that wouldn't make sense in a KOTOR game.

Still, BioWare made some big strides in the RPG genre with Mass Effect I think. I wish they would make KOTOR III and take some ideas from ME...it could be amazing...


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Old 11-24-2008, 06:50 PM   #25
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I disagree. They should use every resource they can in my opinion, and if possible work on a whole new combat engine or use that information to fuse it with the D20


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Old 11-25-2008, 12:42 AM   #26
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I've been playing Fallout 3, recently, and if the combat system,especially V.A.T.S, can be implemented, It would work perfectly.

For those of you who don't know, the V.A.T.S works the same as the tun-based stuff, and lets you target body parts,such as heads, legs, arms, you name it. And it works with melee weapons in Fallout 3 very well.

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Old 11-25-2008, 02:51 AM   #27
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Left handedness, ambidexterity...and the choice to have multiple arms and use that, too--dependent upon species of course.


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Old 12-18-2008, 08:32 AM   #28
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I've been playing Fallout 3, recently, and if the combat system,especially V.A.T.S, can be implemented, It would work perfectly.
I find the combat on F3 to be most tedious. So, I'm out, and still supporting FFXII's.


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Old 12-19-2008, 04:56 PM   #29
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FFXII had a good standpoint, but it also had some flaws that weren't at all favorable to me.


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Old 12-20-2008, 11:19 AM   #30
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I feel that the best course of action is to keep the turn-based system, but improve upon it. Fix the glaring problems, adjust it for balance, things like that.

Attribute system is fine the way it is, but maybe making attributes affect more things would be a better aspect?

More feats, maybe more skills, and definitely more force powers need to be added.
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:16 AM   #31
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I don't know, I think that mixing the combat systems of Jade Empire and Mass Effect and then building on top of that would be best.


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