Low expectations high hopes.

[pyros]

Hi all,
I like alot of people are looking forward to this game, personally I think Bioware could pull this off but there is some concerns.

See its not the developers or Lucas arts, its the people that this kind of game will attract.

We are roleplayers love the SW universe love to solo we enjoy keeping in character and playing.

I am 38, my wife and friends about the same age we all roleplay and all love mmo's.

But alot of the atmosphere gets ruined by the "I R D00dz" crowd and the "Leet items of uberness" also the "UbR guilds".

Not talking about age but maturity, its why if i'm not leveling or grouping with friends i've known for years I will spend alot of time soloing (mmo's does NOT mean forced grouping).

I have seen so many mmo's ruined by the power gamers, it was like in SWG about 1-3 people in the canteena's were there to rp and dance the rest were just there to grind xp afk etc..

I really hope i'm being too harsh on the comunity I really hope that with the bioware take and the amazing storylines and quest arcs that people will want to "live" the game not beat the game.

[adamqd]

I'm with you... My initial thought when they announced this as an MMO was

Originally Posted by Vader

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I love Bioware, I love Star Wars, I LOVE KotOR... But I fear those three things are lost just by the genre this game will be

No Immersion (None like minded players, MMO fans with no care for SW etc) loss of style (Evidence points to bioware dropping the awesome style they created for KotOR, and adopting a very basic Movie era centric palette) EA and Lucasarts (Commercialized, history of recent bad decisions, $$$)

I want it to be great, I just hope Bioware can make a game that is as much for people who have investment in KotOR, as well as for those who will play this because they want a grindy, "Day in the Life", casual fan, sandbox

/rant

[pyros]

Its all beyond most sadly.
I R wana lightsabR!!!
I wana be SytH
I Gotta be UbR Jedi!!

Lets remember for a jedi fighting was the very last option, taking of life something that had a deep meaning to them. They fought to create a lasting peace not "Ohhh whens the next Raid!!! I R need some lootZZ"

Lets swing it around you want to be a Sith ??

Sith..I may rp a sith but I doubt we will see even 1% of the rest of the sith actually play a sith realisticly, these guys and girls are evil, not your every day evil they exist in corruption, dark desires, base needs, use people, destroy them, throw them away they are nothing to you but bloody steps on the stairway to power.. and if sith are played right then even your best friend will stab you in the back to get ahead, if played right sith guilds will be very very dangerous to even there own members..

To put it simply a sith is a very lonely lifestyle, you don't need friends you don't need anyone nothing as fleeting as love all you need is pure unadulterated power..

So honestly lets see if we see anyone playing "true" to the sith or jedi or will it all just go carebear

Edit:
I also hope that player housing is in this game, see as a roleplayer what could be better than going out facing a challenge coming back with a trophy to display on your wall, kitting out your house, having friends over and talking about the days adventures, yes guild houses is okay but its very impersonal, I want my own space..

A power gamer joins a game to beat it, will grind and smash everything will raid and beat every system on the game then whine on the forums for more end game content or move to the next game..

A Roleplayer lives within a game and if the dev's give us a few crumbs like social clothing, a house, furniture we can sit on we will stay with that game till the lights on the servers are extinguished.

[Darth_Yuthura]

Multi player capability usually was just something to augment a single-player game. What should happen if one wants to play the game and no one else is online? Shouldn't there be a single-player function to augment the multi-player gameplay?

I guess I figure this is just a cheap way of writing Star Wars with only a very vague storyline and everything that happens within the game is up for debate on what's canon and what's not.

[Hallucination]

They said the game would have soloable content, fyi.

[Tommycat]

Originally Posted by Hallucination

They said the game would have soloable content, fyi.

Psssst! some people don't actually read that stuff, and just prefer to bash it because it isn't the exact game they wanted.

[Lord of Hunger]

Originally Posted by pyros

Its all beyond most sadly.
I R wana lightsabR!!!
I wana be SytH
I Gotta be UbR Jedi!!

Lets remember for a jedi fighting was the very last option, taking of life something that had a deep meaning to them. They fought to create a lasting peace not "Ohhh whens the next Raid!!! I R need some lootZZ"

[RANT]Yeah...right. If you have ever played KOTOR and/or TSL you'll quickly realize that the Jedi only pretend to be pacifists and protectors of the Galaxy. When the Mandalorians attack, it's "no thanks, might be some dangerous consequences". When the Sith attack, it's "KILL @LL $ITH!!! TH8 D@RK $IDE IS 8VIL!!! THE LIGHT OWNZZZZZZZZ!!!!" Really, that's the summary of the Jedi. Same in New Trilogy. "Oh, Confederacy attacking? Alright, only if we have to.... Wait, Palpatine might be a Sith Lord according to an unstable hormone driven moron? KILL @LL $ITH!!! TH8 D@RK $IDE IS 8VIL!!! THE LIGHT OWNZZZZZZZZ!!!!"

So yeah, if people start raiding the Sith as Jedi, it will actually be very realistic. [/RANT]

Lets swing it around you want to be a Sith ??

Sith..I may rp a sith but I doubt we will see even 1% of the rest of the sith actually play a sith realisticly, these guys and girls are evil, not your every day evil they exist in corruption, dark desires, base needs, use people, destroy them, throw them away they are nothing to you but bloody steps on the stairway to power.. and if sith are played right then even your best friend will stab you in the back to get ahead, if played right sith guilds will be very very dangerous to even there own members..

To put it simply a sith is a very lonely lifestyle, you don't need friends you don't need anyone nothing as fleeting as love all you need is pure unadulterated power..

[RANT]These are the True Sith. They are essentially alot of normal people recruited to serve under the reborn Ancient Sith Empire. Now from what I have read, the Ancient/True Sith were nowhere near as insane or bloody thirsty as the Brotherhood of the Sith (a bunch of Dark Jedi pretending to be Sith), Revan's Sith Empire (which was actually only particularly evil under Malak rather than Revan), the Sith Triumvirate (Force Vampires and Zombies whose appearances screamed EVIL), the New Sith Empire and the Brotherhood of Darkness (same as the Brotherhood of the Sith), and the Order of the Sith Lords (where all the backstabbing and loneliness and such really took place). Lucas actually did a poor job of making the non-True Sith as evil as they are supposed to be, 'cause even a two year old can see that they are either idiots or insane, or in the case of Revan's Empire sometimes a good thing.

We have no indication as to how "evil" the True Sith Empire will be. For all we know, they will sort of like Revan's Sith Empire where you have stability and efficiency brought to the conquered, thus freeing them from the ridiculously corrupt entity that is truly the Galactic Republic. Sure, you might have a Telos IV, but where the Sith might bomb one or two planets, the Republic will most likely let thousands of others fall to the Exchange and Hutts, thus subjecting billions of sentients to slavery and such torments.

The coin can easily be flipped, and I think it should. If Lucas and co really wanted to make the Jedi+Republic good, they should have done a better job of it.[/RANT]

And on a side note I believe this is relevant because it address some assumptions I consider false.

[Hallucination]

Originally Posted by pyros

I R wana lightsabR!!!

The biggest complaint I remember about the gameplay in TSL was that you didn't start with a lightsabre. I guess immature MMO players aren't the only ones like that.

Originally Posted by pyros

I Gotta be UbR Jedi!!

One of the biggest complaints I remember about K1 was that you spent the first 8 levels as a non-Jedi.

Originally Posted by pyros

I wana be SytH

If people want to be a Sith in a game where they can roll one odds are they will just one. This argument also fits nicely with my reply to 'I R wana lightsabR'.

Originally Posted by pyros

Lets remember for a jedi fighting was the very last option, taking of life something that had a deep meaning to them.

Have you ever played a Star Wars game?

[Feagildin]

Originally Posted by Tommycat

Psssst! some people don't actually read that stuff, and just prefer to bash it because it isn't the exact game they wanted.

AMEN

I dislike it when people get all frustrated that the next game coming out from xx developer or in yy game series isn't going to be an exact replica of the previous one, minus a few minor details. (aka scripts, some people even want the same plot, just new lines to read)

/rant

[Jae Onasi]

Well, it's not the SP RPG I was hoping for, but as long as they keep the best aspects of the Kotor series and don't take on the worst aspects of any of the MMOs out there now, I think it has a good chance of being a lot of fun to play. That's what I'm looking for in a game--fun. Well, that and maybe a little Jolee love, too.

I'll have a good time playing it with people from here and from our Lost Haven guild in Guild Wars/LOTRO.

Here's a question for you--if we'd had multiplayer gaming opportunities in either K1 or TSL, would we have this much controversy over TOR being an MMO? It seems to me that so many games are adding the ability to play online/multiplayer, so this almost seems like a natural progression in gaming, even if it's a huge jump.

[Hallucination]

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi

Here's a question for you--if we'd had multiplayer gaming opportunities in either K1 or TSL, would we have this much controversy over TOR being an MMO? It seems to me that so many games are adding the ability to play online/multiplayer, so this almost seems like a natural progression in gaming, even if it's a huge jump.

People will complain about anything.

[Tommycat]

Originally Posted by Hallucination

People will complain about anything.

I'm complaining about your comment.

[PastramiX]

Originally Posted by Jae Onasi

Here's a question for you--if we'd had multiplayer gaming opportunities in either K1 or TSL, would we have this much controversy over TOR being an MMO? It seems to me that so many games are adding the ability to play online/multiplayer, so this almost seems like a natural progression in gaming, even if it's a huge jump.

Nope. The biggest reason why I dislike the MMO is that it is being treated as KotOR III, when there is no actual single-player KotOR III. The multiplayer aspect would've been great in K1 & II, as long as it is an optional form of gameplay, whereas in TOR, it's going to be somewhat of a requirement.

Now, had there been a KotOR MMO alongside a single-player KotOR III, then there would be no problem, as I'd probably never play the MMO. But, since they treating TOR as a K3, it's becoming more of an "You have to play this if you want to know what happened after K2", than a "You can play this if you want to know what happened after K2, or you can play this if you want a companion to the KotOR series." Therefore, in order to have anything KotOR related, people such as myself, are being somewhat forced into playing an MMO, in order to advance the series' plot. That is my largest problem with TOR, how it's being used as cash-in for both Galaxies and KotOR fans, by providing a sort of compromise between the two series.

[logan23]

Hey,

I don't know how Bioware is going to do this, mainly since i have little knowledge on MMOS.

I do believe that Bioware will deliver when it comes to story.
I know we all would love to see kotor3, but from a marketing and looking into the future in gaming this move makes sense. If this mmo does succeed, then you will see not just expansion sets for the mmo but Lucas will use this as a platform to launch other games related to the Old Republic...maybe even a kotor or game like unleash that happens before the mmo.

I'm not into mmo's, nor have I ever played one mainly because of the plot/story issues which seem to be missing until now, with TOR. I do plan to try out TOR but I will be sticking to just playing the quests like a single player RPG.

Bioware took its time with kotor1 and made a great product. I believe if they are given the proper time and team that this game could be amazing!

Just thinking positive and keeping my fingers crossed =)

Logan

[PastramiX]

Originally Posted by logan23

]I know we all would love to see kotor3, but from a marketing and looking into the future in gaming this move makes sense.

Not exactly. Both K1 & 2 developed a massive fanbase that sold millions of copies. For almost five years now, we've said "We want K3". Have we gotten it? Yes and no; on one hand, there is an MMO that is being touted as the sequel to KotOR II, but, it's still not the official KotOR III, a direct sequel to K2. If LucasArts had allowed the production of a single-player K3 by Obsidian, and a companion MMO by BioWare, they would reap huge amounts of profits by fanbase dedication alone. Sure, having two games in development based on the same sub-franchise is a gamble, but so is creating an MMO that appeals to KotOR, Galaxies, and WoW fans.

If this mmo does succeed, then you will see not just expansion sets for the mmo but Lucas will use this as a platform to launch other games related to the Old Republic...maybe even a kotor or game like unleash that happens before the mmo.

It is possible, but I'd guess that we'll see only anything coming out as a spinoff, seeing as TOR is being officially treated as KotOR III, IV, V, VI, etc.

I'm not into mmo's, nor have I ever played one mainly because of the plot/story issues which seem to be missing until now, with TOR. I do plan to try out TOR but I will be sticking to just playing the quests like a single player RPG.

That's my plan as well. Right now, I'm reluctantly looking forward to TOR, mainly because it's the only thing around that is KotOR related.

[Sharen Thrawn]

"low expectations high hopes" is a perfect summary of my thoughts about this game, based on what I know so far. Apart from the stuff like "daRthh R3vAn 243!!!111" characters ruining your role-playing experience, I have also some serious reservations about BioWare storytelling capabilites. Based on the info released and their work on Mass Effect, I'm afraid of an über cliché plot TOR may have.

[John Galt]

I suspect naming will be limited to letters only, with no name-sharing with lore characters. I just hope that the leveling experience isn't soul-crushing like WoW's. Of course, endgame is my favorite part of WoW, so naturally I hope that there is a decent amount of max-level content. Of course, given the choice between the two I would prefer a good leveling game, which Bioware has shown itself more than capable of delivering.

[Miltiades]

Originally Posted by Sharen Thrawn

"low expectations high hopes" is a perfect summary of my thoughts about this game, based on what I know so far. Apart from the stuff like "daRthh R3vAn 243!!!111" characters ruining your role-playing experience, I have also some serious reservations about BioWare storytelling capabilites. Based on the info released and their work on Mass Effect, I'm afraid of an über cliché plot TOR may have.

Exactly. That's my main gripe with it. I've never been a fan of BioWare's writing. Admittedly, I still enjoy their games, but I find myself getting annoyed with some of their recurring elements, like how they tell their stories, the archetypes and the polarizing.

If this was a single RPG, I'd have no doubt they would succeed in making a good game (but not necessarily a great game), but they're taking their chances with making an MMO, and there's bound to be some things that they wanted different, but couldn't because of the particular MMO scene.

[TheExile]

Low expectations, high hopes...
I really hope that they'll mention ANYTHING related to TSL... So far, NOTHING!
In that timeline thingie with the holocrons, they mention Exar Kun, the mandalorian wars, then the Jedi Civil war, then, from 303 BTC ( 3,956 BBY ), that means from the end of the Jedi Civil War, they leap to 103 BTC ( 3,756 ), 200 hundred years later, mentioning the peace and the rebuilding time the Republic had... So they miss the events that occurred during KotOR II TSL...
Why? Because it was Obsidian's doing? -.- IT'S STILL STAR WARS GOD DAMN IT!

[PastramiX]

The reason why I think they haven't mentioned anyhrting from KotOR II yest is the fact that events that took place during game weren't on a major scale. The Sith Triumvirate waged a shadow war, sans the attack on Telos and the Onderon Civil War; It was not a major event, such as the destruction of Taris and Dantooine.

Nevertheless, there are extremely important events which they haven't mentioned yet. Off the top of my head; the First Jedi Purge after the Jedi Civil War, the reconstruction of Telos and other planets, the fall of the Exchange, the Battle of Telos, the Onderon Civil War, etc. Most importantly, there's also the rehabilitation of the Jedi Order by the Exile's companions and other lost Jedi, as well as the rise of the True Sith. Both of those events were critical moments, and if not addressed properly, it seem as if the Jedi Order was never in danger, thus retconning KotOR II.

[Sharen Thrawn]

Originally Posted by PastramiX

The reason why I think they haven't mentioned anyhrting from KotOR II yest is the fact that events that took place during game weren't on a major scale. The Sith Triumvirate waged a shadow war, sans the attack on Telos and the Onderon Civil War; It was not a major event, such as the destruction of Taris and Dantooine.

Agree. The most ironic thing is that the events in TSL were actually more important and relevant to the existance of the Galaxy than anything that happened in the first game. In K1, we had just another Sith trying to conquer the Republic. If he succeeded, nothing THAT terrible would have happened. The Galaxy would be ruled under the Sith but it wouldn't be the end to it. Let's think about K2 now. How terrifying the consequences could be if Kreia did manage to kill the Force? Or if Nihilus wasn't stopped and consumed the whole galaxy? Malak's military crusade against the Republic pales in comparison with that.

The problem is that BioWare doesn't know and understand subtlety. Their games ooze epicness to the point you feel like throwing up. They blow it right in your face on every occasion. Obsidian's approach is much more delicate. Their story felt far less pretentious and the lower-scale of the actual events and focus on the personal, unimportant one would think, stories of just a few characters allowed the truly 'epic' ideas as killing the Force or consuming all life to be incorporated and exist without being cliché.

[DarthJacen]

I agree, they have mentioned TSL in their teaser video. Remember, LucasArts approved both games, and therefore BioWare cannot disregard TSL. Not everyone understands subtly very much. People often remember World War II events, but forget about the Cold War, for the same reasons. Except Vietnam, no one remembers the Korean War.

[Darth Brillus]

I thought it would be alittle better I hoped it wouldn't become an online game, then someone as usual will get to overpower, and addicted.. Except that, the game looks really good!!!