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Old 04-20-2009, 07:35 PM   #1
Darth Avlectus
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The years after TSL

Well...when I joined here on LF in 2006 it was bacause of this segment of the KOTOR secion of LF. Now that SW:TOR has been announced and is in production...well, this thread was abuzz for a little while and then died down.

I am just trying to make some suppositional conversation. Specualtion. Good fun. Trying to breathe a little life back into this section... While plenty of interesting fanfic stuff has been made, I wanted to make it a little more of a democracy. Involve people. Their objective opinions. (Can be subjective if you back it up really well)

What do you speculate or imagine happens in the after years beyond TSL. I'm not talking about revan or the exile...I'm sure that will be covered in some way.

I just mean how do you think things and situations will fare. Why? Perhaps speculate on what you'd believe would lead up to the events that will unfold 300 years later...or even talking after that between that point and 3,000 years after Revan. Between SW:TOR and the turnpoint of Darth Bane.

Can be about specifics like planets, or groups like the exchange, etc.

For example, I believe the corporate identities will pick up steam in the wake of TSL and stand to make plenty of profit from the disasters and the wreckage the wars have left behind.

The Exchange will of course have a new leader, or several. It is a syndicate and they have several gangs under their thumb. I don't believe the organized galactic crime ring will ever go away.

The jedi order will resume with the Exile's crew and Bastilla...The Mandalorians will restrengthen and be as nomads (wall, that one is kind of easy to guess from what's given).

The republic will stagnate and fracture as predicted and be left all but dead for a time. Then it will reunite to restrengthen itself and go until the next challenge comes.

Just my ideas. I'l clarify or you can state your own.


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Old 06-06-2009, 10:11 AM   #2
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Hey, im new here, but beingn a massive kotor fan for years now, keep replaying kotor 2 for the joy of it, waiting for team gizka to finish the restoration which looks brilliant.

yeah you got some interesting ideas. i reckon the Genoharadan could be a major part of the mandolorians gaing strength again (btw i bet goto is a member, hes certainly got the character!) the Exile's crew will be found by Bastila as you said, but theres bound to be other jedi out there.

Seing how thw republic is so fragile, but the there is no threat from the mandolorians or the Sith (yet...) crime will come back like it always does, but because of planets like telos and Onderon, the republic will look again to the Jedi.

Surely Canderous/Mandalore will find Carth and Bastila and they three will form an alliance with the crew of the Ebon Hawk?

On the TOR website, the history says Revan never came back from the Unknown regions., i think this is terribly sad, but also realistic, the Sith have gotta win sometimes. but if they are more powerful than the god-like revan, surely the republic stands no chance? unless revan fell into darkness again?

im sure youre right, im sure revan and the exile will be dealt with somehow in the new mmo, wish they'd do kotor 2 some justice and make a third one though.

but look at the factions like this: Republic, Mandolorians, Exchange, Jedi, echani? (are they a faction?) regardless, all these factions have been battered by the actions of Revan and his leutenant the exile. If the true Sith are coming, surely they will unite?\

one last point, if there is to be a kotor 3, surely it could be a prequel? the story of what Revan found at Malachor at the end of the War, his relationship with the exile and why thr exile left?

interesting stuff! what do you think?
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:38 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by GreyJediMaster View Post
Hey, im new here, but beingn a massive kotor fan for years now, keep replaying kotor 2 for the joy of it, waiting for team gizka to finish the restoration which looks brilliant.
To me looks little more than another stall out, but I won't get into that. I just suffice it to say "eventually it'll happen" since I have basically stopped counting down long ago and shrug it off.

Quote:
yeah you got some interesting ideas. i reckon the Genoharadan could be a major part of the mandolorians gaing strength again (btw i bet goto is a member, hes certainly got the character!) the Exile's crew will be found by Bastila as you said, but theres bound to be other jedi out there.
As were there other sith. I don't remember exactly what was said for other force-sensitive factions. They existed, of course--items in the game are quite clearly evidence of that.

I'd imagine there is a band of Grey Jedi out there somewhere as well, disconnected from it all. The wars, the factions, republic and empire, jedi and sith.

Still, as we saw in TSL, even the Jedi and Sith alive were not sure of others' presences. Not sure if they lived or not. The one thing we do know is that the republic will lick its wounds and heal, the Sith would be preparing.

Quote:
Seing how thw republic is so fragile, but the there is no threat from the mandolorians or the Sith (yet...) crime will come back like it always does, but because of planets like telos and Onderon, the republic will look again to the Jedi.
The Jedi:
Michal, Mira, Visas, Brianna (even if she did not join the exile), Juhani, Jolee, maybe Bao Dur--and of course Bastilla. They will be the foundation upon which the future order will be built. Not so sure about Atton, though.

Atton and Bao-Dur seemed wildcards.

Bao-Dur probably did something that will be prominent later. Exactly what, I can't be sure. Maybe loosely associated with the new Jedi.

Atton--would not surprise me if he wnet to become one of the most notorious scamsters the galaxy ever saw. Like he tried to be Jedi, but couldn't hack it with the Exile having gone. Or maybe he went with the Exile. I find it difficult to believe he'd be brushed aside like nothing.

So far as mandalorians, what we know are the givens:
-They were crusading against the republic
-History with Revan, initially
-Disbanded for a time thereafter
-Malak's defeat
-The new Mandalore reunited them (or at least began to)
-Still have no love for the republic
-Battle eager
-Far in the future, they will be a nomadic pack and decimated by the Jedi

Looked to me like even though they were basically reunited, there is still splinter cells of mandalorian bands. Packs of nomadic wanderers, straying. All of them have an itching bloodlust for battle. They all still have to make money. How better than mercenaries for hire? I'm not so sure they are on anyone's side but their own. They don't exactly like the republic, ever. However, their majority probably will grudgingly join it to fight the sith empire.

Quote:
Surely Canderous/Mandalore will find Carth and Bastila and they three will form an alliance with the crew of the Ebon Hawk?
I forsee this: Mandalore and his band will sort of act as a stealth band. Whatever they do to help the republic will probably be in their own interest, ultimately. Or they may choose sith for the same reason. Whatever it takes to survive/prosper and whatever leads to another glorious battle. That much we can count on. I'm not entirely convinced the Madalorians aren't willing to deal in the exchange again. Canderous did it, albeit warily.

Bastila...mmm, well if you have not read the comic yet, please do so. I'll just endeavor to say that if there is an ancestor of Bastilla Shan's...either some other part of her family continued to propagate over time and the fiesty young lady eventually came to the Jedi in similar manner as Bastilla had centuries before. ...Or, something went on between Basty and Revan that we don't know about. (I would not be surprised if this were ambiguously left in the air for you to choose in the MMO!)

Carth will reassemble the republic in faith towards Revan's requests. Would not be surprised, though, if there is some legendary story telling.

Mission...She'd probably become a republic agent. Her tenacity...I'm sure she'd make some kind of impact. Carth probably employing her.

Zaalbar and the Wookiees: New age. Friendlier to the republic, vigilant and ready as ever for battle. Don't count them out just yet.

The bounty Hunter's guild: conspicuously has remained in the shadows. A wild card faction.

Exchange: Probably several groups. Warring like all the legionary gangs of organized crime. Like Mafia, Yakuza, russian mob, you name it. From wealthy to poor. Always looking to strike a deal. Black MArkets wil arise to compete as well--you'd be a fool not to believe that. Everyone for him/her self.

Militias of planet systems: some will be republic friendly, others not friendly, still others internally at war with itself. Others seduced by the Sith.

Droids...don't know...Well, actually HK-47 does manage to survive. He is still around and hidden by the time Palpatine's empire rises. (refer to wookieepedia) Still elusive even then. Maybe he will reappear some time in the Legacy period 130+ABY?
For TOR: Would not surprise me if the HK model series was of prolific availability.

Quote:
On the TOR website, the history says Revan never came back from the Unknown regions., i think this is terribly sad, but also realistic, the Sith have gotta win sometimes.
True. Not sure what ever became of the exile in the canonical ending. However, the statues out in front of the Jedi Temple on coruscant surely were recognition of those two--I think. Looks like it, anyway.

I do believe that while Revan is never heard from again (possibly the exile, too), they had their schools of teaching. Revan's beyond the outer rim, Exile restarted the one in the galaxy, then went on and made one of her own and allied with Revan's. I don't think we've heard the last of them. They may be dead by the time TOR comes around, but I do not believe their teachings died out. Like there are followers of that martial lineage. Hidden from the Jedi republic and the Sith empire. Waiting for the right moment. Or something like that.

Like there was a feign to make the sith believe all was going as planned, but elusive from everyone else was another faction. Another element. However, only time will tell.

Quote:
but if they are more powerful than the god-like revan, surely the republic stands no chance? unless revan fell into darkness again?
Could also be. There is any number of ways to interpret what all those visions in Kressh's tomb actually meant. Especially the one at the end.

I have considered that we may very well see Revan again in some form--more like something about Revan. Not sure about the Exile, though.

It's fairly open ended, so I'm sure most of even this revelation will be shrouded and ambiguous enough that whatever scraps remain which are uncovered, could be twisted any way to fit any scenario of multiple endings and stuff.


Quote:
im sure youre right, im sure revan and the exile will be dealt with somehow in the new mmo, wish they'd do kotor 2 some justice and make a third one though.
You're not alone--regardless of MMO pro/anti/neutral.

Quote:
but look at the factions like this: Republic, Mandolorians, Exchange, Jedi, echani? (are they a faction?) regardless, all these factions have been battered by the actions of Revan and his leutenant the exile. If the true Sith are coming, surely they will unite?\
Not uniformly. I'm sure Czerka and other companies will also have a stake. It will not be as clean a one would like (I should hope if it is to be a realistic believable story!), but rather a majority vs minority for every faction. That or apathy/neutrality. While the Sith are attempting to take over and rule, I'm sure some discontent, disgruntled, or otherwise unhappy elements will play a significant role one way or the other.

Quote:
one last point, if there is to be a kotor 3, surely it could be a prequel? the story of what Revan found at Malachor at the end of the War, his relationship with the exile and why thr exile left?

interesting stuff! what do you think?
Maybe, or it could just simply not have a number, 3rd in line or prequel. Exactly what point I try to get across to modders writing stories. I might wonder if the prequel would be either that of the initial Revanchist crusade, or if it would go back 40 years to Exar Kun. According to the wiki: even though Sion was linked to the Exile by malachor, he was a sith marauder for Kun's empire. I had begun writing a back story for a fanfic about Darth Sion. I just have so many projects going at once I can't seem to churn them out.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:49 PM   #4
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I've never really thought much about it. I assume that Revan will have gone out in a blaze of glory, giving his life as he battles the "true Sith." Bastila may sense his death, move on, find someone new and have a child (she has a confirmed decedent in The Old Republic lead-in comic series; and while most people assume that she must have reunited with Revan at some point, I've always believed otherwise).


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Old 07-04-2009, 09:13 PM   #5
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^^^That will be interesting to find out. Whether or not her descendant is only of Basty or if she is of Revan's bloodline also. Remember, Basty was still alive in TSL in either scenario. It is entirely possible she could have given up on being a Jedi for a while...possibly to raise a child? Or you could be right, and she found someone else after sensing Revan's fall, but that would need to be confirmed. I suspect we will find out the truth. In either case, Basty's descendant, I think will have some kind of shocking tragic revelation.

In the years after TSL, while I cannot see much going on past the improvement of the republic and the roles of the various factions, I would not rule out some new ones coming into play. Like a Casino and Gambling business, considering how popular that was in K1 and TSL, and given the fact Ord Mantell (well known by the time of the PT and the OT for having Casinos) is going to be in the MMO. Possibly of Exchange factions going legit-in fact for storyline that would make perfect sense. I have only Davik Kang's semi italian accent to his speech, but to me that implies that they are going to put a mafia sort of spin on something somewhere. Where better than Gambling just like all those mafia movie classics?

I guess between the years of TSL ending and TOR beginning, I wonder if NarShadda and the Hutts will continue to be the same situation. I'd bet Merchantry and Transportation would become hot professions hiring mercenaries for protection...unless the "mafia" does that already. That's what I see progressing anyway.
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:02 PM   #6
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as i do belive from wookieepedia for a while HK-47's Artificial intelligence was in a computer on a hammerhead class cruiser which crashed on Mustafar. for it was left for thousands of years untill the Seps found HK-47's Chassis,and studdied it and came up with the HK-77
droid which was just about to be mass produced when Darth Vader came along and killed all the Seps there, resulting in the droids never being fully functional.
But still what does happen to revan in unknown space? do the true sith kill him?
does he get stranded on an uninhabited planet? does his space craft malfunction (not the Ebon Hawk of course) and ends up drifting through space?
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
I've never really thought much about it. I assume that Revan will have gone out in a blaze of glory, giving his life as he battles the "true Sith." Bastila may sense his death, move on, find someone new and have a child (she has a confirmed decedent in The Old Republic lead-in comic series; and while most people assume that she must have reunited with Revan at some point, I've always believed otherwise).
That's exactly what I've been thinking. I actually have a theory that while Revan and The Exile did die fighting the True Sith, they must have wreaked alot of havoc, seeing how it took the True Sith 300 years to invade, and in TSL, it was implied that they were nearly ready to invade.


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Old 07-09-2009, 11:20 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Darth_Osmers View Post
as i do belive from wookieepedia for a while HK-47's Artificial intelligence was in a computer on a hammerhead class cruiser which crashed on Mustafar. for it was left for thousands of years untill the Seps found HK-47's Chassis,and studdied it and came up with the HK-77
droid which was just about to be mass produced when Darth Vader came along and killed all the Seps there, resulting in the droids never being fully functional.
But still what does happen to revan in unknown space? do the true sith kill him?
does he get stranded on an uninhabited planet? does his space craft malfunction (not the Ebon Hawk of course) and ends up drifting through space?
As for HK-47: Relevant article! From this, the following:

Quote:
"Retirement" on Mustafar

Sometime during the thousands of years between then and the Galactic Civil War, HK-47's Artificial intelligence was transferred to a computer located in a Hammerhead-class cruiser. For unknown reasons the cruiser crashed on the volcanic Outer Rim planet Mustafar.

Thousands of years later a tectonic shift exposed the cruiser. When the Confederacy of Independent Systems arrived on Mustafar during the on-going Clone Wars, they discovered the wreckage and HK-47's chassis. Separatist scientists began studying design elements of HK-47 and incorporating them into their own technology, hoping to create new droid models that would help to defeat the Republic. The result was the new HK-77 model. Mass production was ready to begin when Darth Vader arrived on Mustafar and wiped out the Separatist leaders, bringing an end to the Clone Wars and the Separatist movement. HK-47's chassis, along with the rest of the new HK-77 models, were forgotten; and lay dormant after Vader and the Imperial forces left Mustafar.

Over 20 years later, c. 1.5 ABY, the terminal in the Hammerhead cruiser contacted a group of spacers. HK-47 instructed the spacers to invade the Kubaza Beetle Cavern and enable his AI to be transferred from the ship. Once they succeeded in doing so, he ordered them on another quest; this time, they were to enter an old research facility on Mustafar which was said to date back to the years of the Galactic Republic and restore the power. Though the group had to fight through much of the indigenous life of the planet as well as several battle droids, they eventually managed to complete their task. Terminal Delta Five, a computer in the newly powered Research Facility, immediately contacted the group and ordered them to enter the old Droid Factory on the planet and enter a six-digit code into the main terminal. Unfortunately, the code was scattered over three separate terminals which were only operational for ten seconds each. As soon as the group managed to enter the code, however, the Factory Guardian appeared, and attempted to kill them. Once they had dealt with this threat, they returned to the Old Research Facility where they received a message from HK-47, now integrated to a new body, similar to his former 4000-year old one.

HK-47 informed them that, although he appreciated their help for returning him to his body, he would have to get the factory back up and running to get some payback from those who had taken it from him. However, he was unsure as to who had taken it in the first place, and decided to simply kill any organics he came across, starting with the group of spacers who had helped him. The group managed to escape, however, and returned to the Mensix Mining Facility to speak with Milo Mensix, the foreman, and leader of the facility.

HK-47 assembled an army of AK-1A "Hammer", AK-3 "Reaper", GK-5 Sentry, and HK-77 droids in order to destroy all organics on Mustafar. The army attacked the Koseyet Mining Camp where they were met by several miners, as well as the spacers who had previously escaped from HK-47, starting the Battle of Koseyet. Though the droids attacked relentlessly, they were eventually defeated.
The group of spacers proceeded to the Droid Factory, attacking and destroying HK-58 Aurek, HK-58 Besh, HK-Taskmaster, CY-M Prototype and Doom Bringer before shutting the factory down. The spacers made their way to The Lava Crater at the Central Volcano to destroy HK-47. Though the spacers succeeded after a long battle against HK-47's elite droids, once they returned to Milo Mensix for their reward, they received a message from HK-47, explaining that he was, in fact, still alive. HK-47 admired the spacers' ability and in a sarcastic motion, awarded them with a decorative hologram of himself. The plaque at the hologram's base simply read "Meatbag."
I think he will reappear somewhere in the Legacy series of comics if not "sooner". (Timeline!)

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That's exactly what I've been thinking. I actually have a theory that while Revan and The Exile did die fighting the True Sith, they must have wreaked alot of havoc, seeing how it took the True Sith 300 years to invade, and in TSL, it was implied that they were nearly ready to invade.
I'm going to have to ask you: Where is this implied, exactly??? (Cue to relevant reference.) Could all have been part of their ploy, as it does stand to reason.

I also never got the impression anywhere in TSL the true sith were "nearly about to attack" though it is left off in TSL that they still lurk in the shadows. I could have misread it, but I don't think so.

What we do know by the TOR preview is that it was all a deception and that they prepared for those 300 years. That would stand against your theory. Still I am interested to hear it.

From a tactical point of view, I suppose then it could have been a good time right then as there were no Jedi left anymore and the Galaxy was torn apart. So that is a good theory. Still, I'd like to know the connective part because that is a lot to deduce. I could see, yes, that Revan and the Exile might have caused quite a racket, but not that the True Sith were anywhere near about to invade--more unknown. Kreia could not see in either scenario (light or dark) that it was completely or nearly over with on either side, Jedi or Sith. "For each down, it seems another rises to take their place". An invasion at that point might only have culminated in a seemingly never ending war--only in this scenario seen as continuation from what Revan started instead of a grand invasion...or rather brought to light of public awareness, sooner since this is all essentially the same war, just took a 300 yr recess.

I Suppose that a "never ending" cycle of a war was an inevitability anyway, if looking back from the Darth Bane novels.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:53 PM   #9
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@GTA: I thought it was implied after you go to Onderon, as I seem to remember somebody saying that the True Sith were going to use Onderon as a staging point, so I guess that caused me to think that the Sith invasion was about to happen. I've also thought that the True Sith were the ones who damaged the Ebon Hawk at the start of the game, but now I'm sure that's wrong.


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Old 07-20-2009, 03:04 PM   #10
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Quite frankly, I don't take anything that happens '300 years later' will be canon. I think that TOR is going to run into the ground and the third KOTOR will eventually be released. When it does, it will overtake all the events of TOR and become new canon.

I am not going to trash TOR for existing, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the story of KOTOR, which still has yet to be completed.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:55 PM   #11
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Quite frankly, I don't take anything that happens '300 years later' will be canon. I think that TOR is going to run into the ground and the third KOTOR will eventually be released. When it does, it will overtake all the events of TOR and become new canon.

I am not going to trash TOR for existing, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the story of KOTOR, which still has yet to be completed.
I agree.
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:44 AM   #12
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^^^Nice change, aqua teens kicks ass.

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@GTA: I thought it was implied after you go to Onderon, as I seem to remember somebody saying that the True Sith were going to use Onderon as a staging point, so I guess that caused me to think that the Sith invasion was about to happen. I've also thought that the True Sith were the ones who damaged the Ebon Hawk at the start of the game, but now I'm sure that's wrong.
Well, soon as my computer is freed up from transport copying masses of music files by the GB from one portable HD to another for my DJ gig, I'll do a playthrough and check all the text at that point, but I think it is referring to Nihilus and his crew--he had a habit of remaining in the shadows yet lurking ominously.

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Originally Posted by Darth_Yuthura View Post
Quite frankly, I don't take anything that happens '300 years later' will be canon. I think that TOR is going to run into the ground and the third KOTOR will eventually be released. When it does, it will overtake all the events of TOR and become new canon.

I am not going to trash TOR for existing, so long as it doesn't infringe upon the story of KOTOR, which still has yet to be completed.
I hope it won't, either. However I do have a feeling some of the more ambiguous TSL story parts will either be trampled, neglected (as in not done proper justice/lackluster resolution), or simply forgotten as some stuff was for K1. (Thanks LA! ) They'll probably pass it off as Kreia being loony and "don't take what she says at face value". (Credit to Tommycat for the quote! )

So far as what's connonized: I guess I could actually back that position. This story of TOR isn't really going to be as memorable from a "looking back" standpoint.

To citizens of the galaxy, to the historical significance, etc. and also a storyline perspective with respect to the overall timeline this was just another war and perhaps all stemming back from Revan and to a lesser degree, The Exile. It is more just a major free-for-all bedlam rather than based on the pivotal actions of an individual. The time for that is over.

Sure it will have its mark--don't think for a minute that it won't. By the time 1,000 BBY rolls around, the entire galaxy is a damn wreck and the war is all consuming. Long past its peak it's dragging on. The galaxy has grown tired on all sides. The only ones enthusiastic about it are those fighting it on the front lines.

While Path of Destruction and Rule of Two were made before significant considerations really got underway for TOR's storyline, if you really think about it you can't attatch much significance on the individual, can you?

============
Continues:
Now that I think about it, given Bao Dur's gift for machines and technical stuff, would it be too much of a stretch to speculate that he made some kind of Tech academy, or maybe an engineer scholar division of the Jedi Order? After all we do see where T-3 ends up. Agree or disagree?

HK-47, well we know what happened to him eventually. If you look in the KOTOR comics, there is HK-24 models running around here and there, so there must be several HK models even if unrelated to Revan's HK-47. Doubtless, though, HK-47 and his clones of 50's and 51's at least were mentioned in the canonized stories, so that more than likely developed into something.

Vossk in TSL was displeased with how the guild of bounty hunters fell apart. In the web comics there was a bounty hunter (looked rather mandalorian too ), so I suspect something came of Vossk and the guild. Vossk believed in its core principles.

The mandalorians: they are somewhat honor bound, and considering their future in the PT series. My guess is that through the years lots of them were nomadic, basically allies with each other, but wildcards overall. Many as bounty hunters, for sure. However, there does seem to be arguments as to where they actually went and what they really did.

The armor...for the mercenaries working with the sith, and for military for the republic looks eerily similar to clones trooppers. What do you all think?:

A) Mandalorians had something to do with it on both sides
B) Universal design considerations and no Mandalorian help
C) something else (state your thought)

Corporations and trade: This is a bit blank and could use a bit of development. If TOR is as full of story as is boasted, then what about this area?


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Old 07-24-2009, 02:17 AM   #13
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Here is my hypothesis:

Revan and the Exile go into the Unknown regions, and make a huge dent in the Sith's plans, considering they delayed their attack by 300 years. Meanwhile, the Exile's crew members rebuild the Jedi Order, and Carth Onasi rebuilds the Republic Military on a stronger foundation.

Canderous Ordo rebuilds the Mandalorian, and they are once again a force, yet nowhere near as strong as they were under Mandalore the Ultimate, but at least they are no longer rogue bandits; they are united again. However, Revan's orders to Canderous are forgotten through the generations and the Mandalorians once again resume their badass selfishness.

Telos and Onderon are restored to their former glory, due to the actions of the exile.

Then, the Sith come and own the Republic, but at the last second let them keep Coruscant so that the cannonical events of the next 3500 years can take place . . . and yeah, that's what I think.


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Old 07-30-2009, 08:02 PM   #14
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If they just wipe Revan and the Exile off the storyline, then it's going to suck balls. After all they've been through, all the battles they fought, the influence they had in their time, it would be incredibly lame to just have them suddenly disappear without a trace and never be heard from again.


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Old 07-30-2009, 08:22 PM   #15
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If they just wipe Revan and the Exile off the storyline, then it's going to suck balls.
Revan and the Exile are the storyline.


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Old 07-30-2009, 08:28 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Darth Manus View Post
If they just wipe Revan and the Exile off the storyline, then it's going to suck balls. After all they've been through, all the battles they fought, the influence they had in their time, it would be incredibly lame to just have them suddenly disappear without a trace and never be heard from again.
Obviously, they'd have to include some reference of the two. As long as we find out what happen to them, that's all that matters. I doubt they'll just throw Revan and X away without any mention of them.

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Old 08-01-2009, 12:43 AM   #17
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^^^Watch the initial preview of the sith invasion again. This time pay attention: If you look carefully at the statues outside the Jedi Temple on coruscant, the one on the right bears a resemblance to Revan. We're left to assume that the similar one on the left is The Exile.

Also, the symbolism: as that Sith badass is leaving the Temple going up in flames, the two statues are crumbling. Right there that *possibly* implies the fate of our beloved two.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Spitfire View Post
Here is my hypothesis:

Revan and the Exile go into the Unknown regions, and make a huge dent in the Sith's plans, considering they delayed their attack by 300 years.
That's the theory, anyways. And a popular one at that.

Quote:
Meanwhile, the Exile's crew members rebuild the Jedi Order, and Carth Onasi rebuilds the Republic Military on a stronger foundation.
Quote:
Telos and Onderon are restored to their former glory, due to the actions of the exile.
Given, but yes.

Quote:
Canderous Ordo rebuilds the Mandalorian, and they are once again a force, yet nowhere near as strong as they were under Mandalore the Ultimate, but at least they are no longer rogue bandits; they are united again. However, Revan's orders to Canderous are forgotten through the generations and the Mandalorians once again resume their badass selfishness.
Also, do not forget what Mandalore basically said if you choose to take him to the Sith Tomb on Dxun: The mandalorians may not have any great love for the repubic, however he knew how badly they came off joining the sith during Exar Kun's whole deal. So would that not imply that along the way, corruption occurred aside from forgetting their own history's important lessons? Just something to consider...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Manus View Post
If they just wipe Revan and the Exile off the storyline, then it's going to suck balls. After all they've been through, all the battles they fought, the influence they had in their time, it would be incredibly lame to just have them suddenly disappear without a trace and never be heard from again.
I agree. So that begs a question: Why would they do that? What good reason would there be from both storyline AND fanbase perspectives?
There is not good reason if you think about it--too risky and moreover just not smart. Wouldn't you agree?

Personally I think they will have moved to distant memory and only be relevant now in terms of galactic history. However, that is pure speculation.


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Originally Posted by Master Shake View Post
Revan and the Exile are the storyline.
QFT.


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Old 08-01-2009, 09:02 AM   #18
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Really nice thread.Personally i didn't give much thought to the years after TSL and to what happened to the characters,probably because I still hope for a KOTOR 3.


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Old 08-01-2009, 12:00 PM   #19
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^^^I was actually hoping to generate a picture for *that* more than discuss SW:TOR. It just doesn't seem like there is much in the way of ideas for it, though. BTW, welcome to LF.

I do imagine there are some small incursions and insurgencies here and there. Not sure of anything noteworthy, though.


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Old 10-04-2009, 10:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
^^^Watch the initial preview of the sith invasion again. This time pay attention: If you look carefully at the statues outside the Jedi Temple on coruscant, the one on the right bears a resemblance to Revan. We're left to assume that the similar one on the left is The Exile.
The high-res CGI one? IDK, both statues look the same to me - mirror images of each other flanking and facing the entrance hallway...


Anyway, I think what Revan and the Exile did was incite a civil war within the True Sith Empire - remember, the Mando Wars, as Kreia said and HK-47 implied, was a war meant to convert the Jedi Order. Revan was the charismatic and brilliant strategist, and the Exile herself was able to draw many followers, due to her inherent Force Bonding. Whether or not they instigated on opposite sides (Revan on one side, Exile as the other) I'm not sure about.

And again, this would also play into the "why no one can come along" role, considering what they were doing with people they were attaching themselves to.

While they may not have lived to see much of it, the factions could live on and the civil war could have lasted for a century or so.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #21
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Well I guess you have a point there. Yeah, I was looking and I can't make out the faces, but still, their resemblances are a bit more than coincidental.


If Kreia and Sion hinted at what was to come, they had to have had at least glimpses of this empire, I'd think.

Another thought: if exile faced visions of the past and present, what is to say that vision of Revan wasn't the future? Like the millenia old Sith Emperor waited, biding his time and saw an opportunity to turn the two against each other? Maybe they ended each other?


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Old 10-05-2009, 08:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Another thought: if exile faced visions of the past and present, what is to say that vision of Revan wasn't the future? Like the millenia old Sith Emperor waited, biding his time and saw an opportunity to turn the two against each other? Maybe they ended each other?
That is a possibilty, and like I mentioned earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWUSS View Post
Whether or not they instigated on opposite sides (Revan on one side, Exile as the other) I'm not sure about.

While they may not have lived to see much of it, the factions could live on and the civil war could have lasted for a century or so.
Maybe he could have played them both and had them draw massive armies behind them, keeping the Sith occupied while the Republic once again grew complacent, evident in how they were caught blindsided when the True Sith invaded.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:05 PM   #23
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Hmm. Very good. With your help we seem to have stumbled upon this much:
Occupied, but to what extent? That is the question here. All this time, what *really* went on beyond the outer rim?

Were Revan and Exile causing havoc and trouble for the sith empire? Sure.

Trouble the ancient Emperor couldn't handle? I don't think so. I think it was all part of his master plan.

Analyzing:
Quote:
Sacking of coruscant, The Sith Warrior:
For 300 years, we prepared, we grew stronger. While you rested in your cradle of power, believing your people were safe. You were trusted to lead the republic--but you were deceived. As our powers of the dark side have blinded you...You assumed no force could challenge you.

And now, finally, *we* have returned.
=====
You, were decieved. And now your republic, shall fall.

From a present, looking back view from there, my thought:
The emperor kept Revan and Exile's factions "on a treadmill", so to speak. To deceptively pit his own military against the factions of Revan and Exile which he also orchestrated; neither their sides, nor his own, aware of the greater scheme while in play, though mindful of eventualities that could arise. To have his military "prepare" for 300 years by fighting the best the republic could forge, permanently entrapped until their doom. All the while keeping an eye on the Republic.

Sinister and cunning...

They prepared:
His own military, the majority legitimately believing for the time being that they were under attack. Eventually only to see that war conclude and see it was all a part of the ancient master's plan.

They grew stronger:
With victory, as well as vision and revelation by their master to assure them, they grew in numbers, and their resolve at its strongest.

They Returned:
A complacent and dysfunctional Republic at a low point is the ideal time. They saw the opening and went for it.

What do you think?
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:20 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity View Post
Hmm. Very good. With your help we seem to have stumbled upon this much:
Occupied, but to what extent? That is the question here. All this time, what *really* went on beyond the outer rim?

Were Revan and Exile causing havoc and trouble for the sith empire? Sure.

Trouble the ancient Emperor couldn't handle? I don't think so. I think it was all part of his master plan.

Analyzing:



From a present, looking back view from there, my thought:
The emperor kept Revan and Exile's factions "on a treadmill", so to speak. To deceptively pit his own military against the factions of Revan and Exile which he also orchestrated; neither their sides, nor his own, aware of the greater scheme while in play, though mindful of eventualities that could arise. To have his military "prepare" for 300 years by fighting the best the republic could forge, permanently entrapped until their doom. All the while keeping an eye on the Republic.

Sinister and cunning...

They prepared:
His own military, the majority legitimately believing for the time being that they were under attack. Eventually only to see that war conclude and see it was all a part of the ancient master's plan.

They grew stronger:
With victory, as well as vision and revelation by their master to assure them, they grew in numbers, and their resolve at its strongest.

They Returned:
A complacent and dysfunctional Republic at a low point is the ideal time. They saw the opening and went for it.

What do you think?
Also, Revan and the Exile also served as strong leaders, something the Sith needed to stay united. Each of these factions had someone holding them together, being defined and built by the conflict that was (this is sorta touching up on Kreia's "finding oneself [or lack thereof]").

At the same time, if it was entirely orchestrated by the Sith Emperor, I'm not sure how he would necessarily end the conflict, since he would have to somehow stay out of it or somehow play both sides like Darth Sidious. But even in his case (looking at it as purely a Republic-CIS conflict), the participants to both sides were detached to the whole conflict -- droids don't have emotions and the troopers were indoctrinated to the extreme to only be useful to the Republic/Empire. He (Sith Emperor) would either have to A) convince them at the external enemy (Republic) was going to attack them, or B) wipe one side out and lead remaining faction against the Republic.


Although, this third option popped in my head (as I type this post), being that Revan and the Exile ignited the civil war amongst the Sith to weaken them for a Republic invasion that would wipe them out (since the Republic would be rebuilt, and the Jedi Order reformed under a new set of teachings), but then the Sith Emperor managed to take control of the civil war, drawing it out long enough for the Republic to grow complacent, when he catches them unprepared.

He may have had to make his move rather early, since Revan and the Exile would have eventually returned to Republic space and had them make their move.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:24 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by GTA
Michal, Mira, Visas, Brianna (even if she did not join the exile), Juhani, Jolee, maybe Bao Dur--and of course Bastilla. They will be the foundation upon which the future order will be built. Not so sure about Atton, though.
I dunno about Jolee and Juhani... they never even hinted at what happened to them after k1, and if they had survived Sion's assassination campaign. Hopefully the fact the Bastila survived hints that they may have survived too.

Brianna: She didnt have much to do with the canon female exile, other than a good conversation on Telos... what makes you think that she will become a jedi?

Quote:
Atton and Bao-Dur seemed wildcards.
I wonder whats up with the fact that Kreia couldn't see Bao Dur's future...

Quote:
Atton--would not surprise me if he wnet to become one of the most notorious scamsters the galaxy ever saw. Like he tried to be Jedi, but couldn't hack it with the Exile having gone. Or maybe he went with the Exile. I find it difficult to believe he'd be brushed aside like nothing.
I always had the feeling he would be part of the "Lost Jedi", and sit on the new council with the others.

Quote:
I forsee this: Mandalore and his band will sort of act as a stealth band. Whatever they do to help the republic will probably be in their own interest, ultimately. Or they may choose sith for the same reason. Whatever it takes to survive/prosper and whatever leads to another glorious battle. That much we can count on. I'm not entirely convinced the Madalorians aren't willing to deal in the exchange again. Canderous did it, albeit warily.
I just saw a YT vid of Kreia's prophecies. This is what she said regarding Canderous:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Traya on Malachor
Many battles does that one have left in him, as Revan intended. A general needs an army, as he needs those he trusts.
See the underlined bit? "A general needs an army..."
An army is used for war. That seems to imply that Revan intended to actually fight a war. Also, it makes you wonder what Kreia meant:
Quote:
Perhaps you shall go there with him, and do battle at th end of all things
Sounds quite apocalyptic... Like, the end of the Star Wars universe...
Quote:
Mission...She'd probably become a republic agent. Her tenacity...I'm sure she'd make some kind of impact. Carth probably employing her.
That's exactly what I thought would happen to her too.
Quote:
True. Not sure what ever became of the exile in the canonical ending. However, the statues out in front of the Jedi Temple on coruscant surely were recognition of those two--I think. Looks like it, anyway.
Eh? Here's the front from the TOR "Deceived" trailer:

^ That just looks like random generic jedi to me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar
I've never really thought much about it. I assume that Revan will have gone out in a blaze of glory, giving his life as he battles the "true Sith." Bastila may sense his death, move on, find someone new and have a child (she has a confirmed decedent in The Old Republic lead-in comic series; and while most people assume that she must have reunited with Revan at some point, I've always believed otherwise).
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA
^^^That will be interesting to find out. Whether or not her descendant is only of Basty or if she is of Revan's bloodline also. Remember, Basty was still alive in TSL in either scenario. It is entirely possible she could have given up on being a Jedi for a while...possibly to raise a child? Or you could be right, and she found someone else after sensing Revan's fall, but that would need to be confirmed. I suspect we will find out the truth. In either case, Basty's descendant, I think will have some kind of shocking tragic revelation.
Its Revan. I refuse to believe otherwise.

... And you lot seem to forget they had an entire year to "propagate".
Quote:
After all we do see where T-3 ends up. Agree or disagree?
AFAIK, he left with the Exile to find Revan... was there anything else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWUSS
Maybe he could have played them both and had them draw massive armies behind them, keeping the Sith occupied while the Republic once again grew complacent, evident in how they were caught blindsided when the True Sith invaded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTA
From a present, looking back view from there, my thought:
The emperor kept Revan and Exile's factions "on a treadmill", so to speak. To deceptively pit his own military against the factions of Revan and Exile which he also orchestrated; neither their sides, nor his own, aware of the greater scheme while in play, though mindful of eventualities that could arise. To have his military "prepare" for 300 years by fighting the best the republic could forge, permanently entrapped until their doom. All the while keeping an eye on the Republic.

Sinister and cunning...

They prepared:
His own military, the majority legitimately believing for the time being that they were under attack. Eventually only to see that war conclude and see it was all a part of the ancient master's plan.

They grew stronger:
With victory, as well as vision and revelation by their master to assure them, they grew in numbers, and their resolve at its strongest.

They Returned:
A complacent and dysfunctional Republic at a low point is the ideal time. They saw the opening and went for it.

What do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAWUSS
At the same time, if it was entirely orchestrated by the Sith Emperor, I'm not sure how he would necessarily end the conflict, since he would have to somehow stay out of it or somehow play both sides like Darth Sidious. But even in his case (looking at it as purely a Republic-CIS conflict), the participants to both sides were detached to the whole conflict -- droids don't have emotions and the troopers were indoctrinated to the extreme to only be useful to the Republic/Empire. He (Sith Emperor) would either have to A) convince them at the external enemy (Republic) was going to attack them, or B) wipe one side out and lead remaining faction against the Republic.


Although, this third option popped in my head (as I type this post), being that Revan and the Exile ignited the civil war amongst the Sith to weaken them for a Republic invasion that would wipe them out (since the Republic would be rebuilt, and the Jedi Order reformed under a new set of teachings), but then the Sith Emperor managed to take control of the civil war, drawing it out long enough for the Republic to grow complacent, when he catches them unprepared.

He may have had to make his move rather early, since Revan and the Exile would have eventually returned to Republic space and had them make their move.
Personally, the civil war theory appeals to me, but i don't know about the Emperor playing the whole situation thing.
I would see something like Revan and Exile start a civil war that actually jeopardizes/poses a valid threat to the Sith Empire, creating a destabilizing and destructive machine that rolls on even after their own deaths, which is only vanquished about 100 years from TOR (100 years because the Sith Empire would need time to recover from the civil war, and then amass enough power to stage a war of their own).



mfw I read the Revan novel

it is not a cry of joy.
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Old 10-20-2009, 12:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by DAWUSS View Post
Also, Revan and the Exile also served as strong leaders, something the Sith needed to stay united. Each of these factions had someone holding them together, being defined and built by the conflict that was (this is sorta touching up on Kreia's "finding oneself [or lack thereof]").
You kinda lost me there... I wasn't insinuating the two turned to the dark side and joined the sith empire if that's what you thought...

Quote:
At the same time, if it was entirely orchestrated by the Sith Emperor, I'm not sure how he would necessarily end the conflict, since he would have to somehow stay out of it or somehow play both sides like Darth Sidious.
Sort of, but not quite. See Revan and Malak met this emperor of the sith empire beforehand and it is implied they were corrupted by the experience. Then on their way back to the core, revan and malak turned on each other--it's on the TOR website. As well as PC gamer's SWTOR world unveiling issue. (Guess we have a good hint at who took out Malak's jaw.)

Sith emperor thus set it in motion and watched from afar, allowing events to unfold to a point and biding his time. Probably realizing in time Revan would return one way or another. Probably few in the empire were aware of what really hapened between the Emperor and Revan. It is not entirely out of the realm that the Emperor and his council of 12 were bracing for this attack and leave their empire in the dark about all the details. He needed a strong enemy who at least appeared to pose a real threat to cull the disloyal and unite his people. Eventually Revan returned and the war was waged.


Quote:
<snip> He (Sith Emperor) would either have to A) convince them at the external enemy (Republic) was going to attack them, or
Sort of, yes.

Quote:
B) wipe one side out and lead remaining faction against the Republic.
Not sure what you're saying here...

Quote:
Although, this third option popped in my head (as I type this post), being that Revan and the Exile ignited the civil war amongst the Sith to weaken them for a Republic invasion that would wipe them out (since the Republic would be rebuilt, and the Jedi Order reformed under a new set of teachings), but then the Sith Emperor managed to take control of the civil war, drawing it out long enough for the Republic to grow complacent, when he catches them unprepared.
YES. That's much more like it. It began how ever it did. But being that the Emperor of the sith had been alive for over a millenium, I'd imagine that for a while it was uncertain and that the danger was real; however, the Sith Emperor knew this would ultimately come to pass and he probably had been looking for the perfect opportunity to challenge his own people anyway. Mind you he may have planned it out but these things always start out with a vision of desire or such and are "played by the cards dealt" so to speak.

Quote:
He may have had to make his move rather early, since Revan and the Exile would have eventually returned to Republic space and had them make their move.
I'd imagine the good strategist a millenia old Sith would be, at some point found a way to persevere in the face of adversity. My theory is that if the vision of Revan was a glimpse into the future, what the Sith Emperor did was find a way to drive a rift between Revan and the exile, once the Exile joined the fray. That's my theory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan View Post
I dunno about Jolee and Juhani... they never even hinted at what happened to them after k1, and if they had survived Sion's assassination campaign. Hopefully the fact the Bastila survived hints that they may have survived too.
Okay, maybe they survived or not...I'm unsure. Kreia says other Jedi exist...
Master Dorak's apprentice survived, I think.

Quote:
Brianna: She didnt have much to do with the canon female exile, other than a good conversation on Telos... what makes you think that she will become a jedi?
Actually this is a rather interesting thing in SW EU. She is also considered to have canonically traveled with the Exile--despite her being canonically female. Some campaign book, or the ultimate visual guide or something made it so.

This might be a reference to how the early TSL copies actually played out as opposed to the second edition. In the first edition, what happened was that you got Brianna if you were lightside by the time you got to the Telos academy, and Visas if you were darkside as the handmaiden would have not joined you.

Stranger still, Visas is also canonically part of the new order...or at least I am lead to believe. Well, actually, is she or is that not confirmed? If it is, then...I guess someone is going to have some serious ret-con to do to explain that. Or Michal was odd one out, but as I understood, he eventually was trained.

It's conceivable in any scenario that regardless whichever of the 3 scenarios actually played out, all 3 were force sensitive and thus found by the reformed Jedi Order and eventually trained.

Quote:
I wonder whats up with the fact that Kreia couldn't see Bao Dur's future...
Theory of fans is that he never left Telos after The Ravager attacked it. Back home as it were. Some claim he died--I personally think that is BS.

Mandalore definitely got off the ride there.

Bao Dur obviously sent the remote. I'm sure with uncertainty hanging in the balance he became ambivalent at least. Even after the events played out with Malachor V. His uncertainty might have affected Kreia's (quickly fading) ability to see into the future for him and The Droids.

We know the original HK-47 survived into the Vader era (read way above). T3...maybe that one went with the Exile, or maybe gave her the info about Revan and stayed with the Order.

Quote:
I always had the feeling he would be part of the "Lost Jedi", and sit on the new council with the others.
Conceiveable. He would have to have come between the first one, Darth Ruin, and (possibly including) the 12th Lost Jedi...reference to Darth Bane: Rule of Two, where it is seen at that point in time ~3,000 years later there were 12 lost counted.

Quote:
I just saw a YT vid of Kreia's prophecies. This is what she said regarding Canderous:

See the underlined bit? "A general needs an army..."
An army is used for war. That seems to imply that Revan intended to actually fight a war. Also, it makes you wonder what Kreia meant:
Sounds quite apocalyptic... Like, the end of the Star Wars universe...
Yes I know--we all knew that, unfortunately that was posted RIGHT before it was revealed that the mandalorians would get corrupted to working for the Sith. So FTR, I officially stand, err rather informed.

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That's exactly what I thought would happen to her too.
Now if only they would post some risq'ue pics of her as a 19 year old secret agent.
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Eh? Here's the front from the TOR "Deceived" trailer:
*snip img*
^ That just looks like random generic jedi to me...
OKay, I officially retract what I based on hazy deceiving looks. My bad.

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Its Revan. I refuse to believe otherwise.
I want to believe it, but... We'll see. *pats shoulder*

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... And you lot seem to forget they had an entire year to "propagate".
Actually, no I didn't.

One of the first thoughts (which I posted almost immediately somewhere either here in the KOTOR subsection or in the TOR subsection) after seeing Satele Shan's name on the web comics was: "Oh?! I guess Revan and Basty were up to *something*! "

It is my primary theory (taking care of their child) as to why Bastila was rather detached in the events that unfolded in TSL. Can *you* honestly think of a better reason? (you obviously see why I want to believe it as well)

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AFAIK, he left with the Exile to find Revan... was there anything else?
As I said above, T3 could have left with exile or gave Exile the info she sought and stayed behind at her orders.


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I would see something like Revan and Exile start a civil war that actually jeopardizes/poses a valid threat to the Sith Empire, creating a destabilizing and destructive machine that rolls on even after their own deaths, which is only vanquished about 100 years from TOR (100 years because the Sith Empire would need time to recover from the civil war, and then amass enough power to stage a war of their own).
I know not at me, but: Eery, that's basically what I was thinking. Except by the last half or third of it the emperor took control somehow and won. He already played both sides when Revan and Malak originally arrived and were initially corrupted.

Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 10-20-2009 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 10-20-2009, 10:29 AM   #27
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The above posts are far too huge for me to quote, so here's how I see it going:

The Exchange goes on, business as usual. The power vacuum left in Goto's faction of the syndicate is filled by another crime lord quickly and without much fuss. I imagine that the Exchange will eventually either be usurped by Black Sun, or turn into Black Sun itself.

The Mandalorian clans somehow manage to grow, but implode and scatter for some reason after their numbers climb above negligible levels. The most probable cause is the disappearance of Canderous Ordo after Malachor V's destruction; they carry on for a while without him, but don't last for long, especially since he took the Mandalore's helmet with him. Much later, a Mandalorian on Geonosis (?) would be recruited by the "True" Sith to re-unite the clans and help them against the Republic in the "Great Galactic War". Hell knows where or how the Mandalorians got their fleets and gear, not to mention the industrial centers necessary for such a buildup... Maybe the Sith just gave them a fleet?

By an unknown means, the HK-50 factory is shut down and/or destroyed after HK-47 departs from there. The HK-50s are eventually purged from the Republic fleet, since the Exile knows their true purpose, and the production of HK droids is ended for good. HK-47 himself is somehow marooned on the planet Mustafar, where he remains (ostensibly trying to build a droid army to take over the galaxy with, like that's possible ) for several thousand years until he is destroyed by a group of spacers during the Galactic Civil War.

The Jedi Order will get up and running again soon enough. As Darth Traya implied, the Exile's Force-sensitive companions start rebuilding the Jedi Order, probably by scouring the galaxy for willing Force-sensitives or surviving Jedi to train (I imagine that, considering how dangerously low their numbers are, the age requirements of Jedi recruits would be abolished for the time being). "Disciple" Mical becomes a member of the hastily-formed Jedi "Council". After a number of years of rounding up Force-sensitives, Revan and the Exile's companions band together, except for Mical, who is left to watch over the new apprentices, and head into the Unknown Regions, where they meet their deaths alongside Revan and the Exile, having failed to do anything more than stall the Sith invasion (exactly how they could do this, I really don't know).

While his former colleagues are off getting themselves killed in the Unknown Regions, Mical continues to guide the Order, and eventually a proper Jedi Council is established, lost Holocrons and artifacts are discovered, the Jedi Temple on Coruscant is reclaimed, and so on. Also, because of the disappearances of Visas, Atton, and Revan, the Exile, and their other companions (most of whom have very questionable views on the Force and morality in general), the Jedi Order's fundamental guidelines and doctrines (no use of the dark side, serve the Force instead of the government, marriage is a bad idea) remain intact. As the Order grows and gets its public relations fixed up, a new minor Sith threat pops up every now and again, consisting usually of a small Sith fleet not much larger than a sector fleet led by a survivor from the Sith Triumvirate or some such thing, but these threats-of-the-week never last long.

The regicide it suffered in the final year of the First Jedi Purge, combined with the destruction of its most critical non-industrial planet (I have no idea why Avellone thought it realistic that the entire Sith Order was literally striking from one star system) effectively destroyed the Sith Triumvirate's holdings in the galaxy, and it killed itself very quickly. Those that survived its last civil war were finished off by the recovering Republic's military and the Jedi Order. Obviously, no survivors or successors of the Sith Triumvirate lived to see the "Great Galactic War".

The Republic itself, now no longer being pestered by the Sith, is able to focus on rebuilding, now that it is no longer challenged by any notable military threats. Within three centuries, its respectable military is rebuilt, and the Senate starts anew, with fresh faces overturning what corruption may have taken root since the Mandalorian Wars.

Sadly, most of this is undone by a deadly retardation virus that spread throughout the galaxy, preventing the Republic and Jedi from realizing how stupid it would be to agree to a peace treaty with the "True" Sith after they invade. By the time the virus wears off, it is too late, and they're in the middle of a cold war with the Sith, and both Republic and Jedi public relations have been shot to hell again.

Somehow, however, the Sith Empire is ousted, the Jedi return to Coruscant, public relations are fixed again, and the Jedi and Republic fortify and rebuild themselves again for 1,600 years until the New Sith Wars.

As far as I can tell, that all meshes pretty well with canon, for the most part.


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Old 10-20-2009, 08:32 PM   #28
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Your post was just as large as above. I have put hidden tags on everything to "shorten" it to bits and chunks.

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Originally Posted by TKA-001 View Post
<brevity> I imagine that the Exchange will eventually either be usurped by Black Sun, or turn into Black Sun itself.
Show spoiler


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<snip>The most probable cause is the disappearance of Canderous Ordo after Malachor V's destruction; they carry on for a while without him, but don't last for long, especially since he took the Mandalore's helmet with him.
Show spoiler


Quote:
<snip> Hell knows where or how the Mandalorians got their fleets and gear, not to mention the industrial centers necessary for such a buildup... Maybe the Sith just gave them a fleet?
Show spoiler


Spoiler warning:
Show spoiler


Show spoiler


Quote:
By an unknown means, the HK-50 factory is shut down and/or destroyed after HK-47 departs from there. The HK-50s are eventually purged from the Republic fleet, since the Exile knows their true purpose, and the production of HK droids is ended for good.
Show spoiler


Quote:
HK-47 himself is somehow marooned on the planet Mustafar, where he remains (ostensibly trying to build a droid army to take over the galaxy with, like that's possible ) for several thousand years until he is destroyed by a group of spacers during the Galactic Civil War.
Spoilers ahead:
Show spoiler



Quote:
The Jedi Order will get up and running again soon enough. <brevity>(I imagine that, considering how dangerously low their numbers are, the age requirements of Jedi recruits would be abolished for the time being). "Disciple" Mical becomes a member of the hastily-formed Jedi "Council". After a number of years of rounding up Force-sensitives, Revan and the Exile's companions band together, except for Mical, who is left to watch over the new apprentices, and head into the Unknown Regions, where they meet their deaths alongside Revan and the Exile, having failed to do anything more than stall the Sith invasion (exactly how they could do this, I really don't know).
Show spoiler


Quote:
While his former colleagues are off getting themselves killed in the Unknown Regions, Mical continues to guide the Order, and eventually a proper Jedi Council is established, lost Holocrons and artifacts are discovered, the Jedi Temple on Coruscant is reclaimed, and so on. Also, because of the disappearances of Visas, Atton, and Revan, the Exile, and their other companions (most of whom have very questionable views on the Force and morality in general), the Jedi Order's fundamental guidelines and doctrines (no use of the dark side, serve the Force instead of the government, marriage is a bad idea) remain intact.
We'll see...

Quote:
The regicide it suffered in the final year of the First Jedi Purge, combined with the destruction of its most critical non-industrial planet (I have no idea why Avellone thought it realistic that the entire Sith Order was literally striking from one star system) effectively destroyed the Sith Triumvirate's holdings in the galaxy, and it killed itself very quickly.
Show spoiler


Quote:
Within three centuries, its respectable military is rebuilt, and the Senate starts anew, with fresh faces overturning what corruption may have taken root since the Mandalorian Wars.
Yup. Always those festering stinking rotten politicians.

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Sadly, most of this is undone by a deadly retardation virus that spread throughout the galaxy, preventing the Republic and Jedi from realizing how stupid it would be to agree to a peace treaty with the "True" Sith after they invade. By the time the virus wears off, it is too late, and they're in the middle of a cold war with the Sith, and both Republic and Jedi public relations have been shot to hell again.
No doubt corruption in the senate opened the door to it. Yeah really, what's up with that? Treaty. Bah! There is no negotiation with bullies.

It becomes a "war without end" IMO. The republic will get caught up in it so badly it will essentially cease to exist in any other meaningful function.

Then Darth Bane comes along and...well the rest is history, err the future, err, you get what I mean.
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:29 AM   #29
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You think he will die in battle I presume. I agree if you mean to say a while later. If you pay attention, though, he stays back on Telos as Exile goes to talk to Carth. I have doubts he accompanied Exile to Malachor V.
I thought that Canderous had gone to Malachor, since he was with the Exile right as she left the Ravager. Considering how convoluted and chopped up the ending is, however (it doesn't explain the fate of any of the party members), it wouldn't surprise me.

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and enough generations had passed that they were not as aprised of their forefathers' wisdom about how they have received the bad side of their deals with the sith.
What "bad side" of their ideals? I didn't know there was any other side.

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Also, I didn't know HK-47 was definitively destroyed. I'd like to see where you got that from. Are you sure they destroyed him? I got the impression he was still at large.
Seems I was in error, then. Still, HK is in all likelihood trapped on Mustafar after his droid "army" kicked the bucket, but considering in retrospect how shamelessly they threw him into SWG, I wouldn't be too surprised if he resurfaced in the Legacy comic series.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

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Old 10-21-2009, 05:47 PM   #30
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So, while I was surfing Wookieepedia a few days ago, I found a link that, if you scroll down a bit, says that the kissing scene between Revan and Bastila was supposed to imply that they actually slept together. I wonder if that's how Satele's ancestor's came to be?


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Old 10-22-2009, 01:07 AM   #31
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^^^Is there any way to confirm who David Gaider is? Or that he is a lead writer of KOTOR? I see the post you refer to. IF someone could take a snapshot of his name in the KOTOR credits, then it might be possible to call it like that in a presumptuous manner based on that evidence. Obviously nothing is canon until the LA Canoecity committee approves it. BUT, This is a tremendous find! We now MIGHT have some possibility Satele Shan is a direct descendant of Bastila AND Revan. Not definite, but we now have a lead to start pressing questioning with.

Thank you, Ping!

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I thought that Canderous had gone to Malachor, since he was with the Exile right as she left the Ravager. Considering how convoluted and chopped up the ending is, however (it doesn't explain the fate of any of the party members), it wouldn't surprise me.
It's all good--I thought Bao Dur had been killed in the crash of the ship because he was clutching himself as though injured in his final message to Remote. It turned out I left him in bad health last I had played him in that savegame. Minor but nothing like a little detail to throw the whole thing off.


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What "bad side" of their ideals? I didn't know there was any other side.
In K2, Take Mandalore to Freedon Nadd's tomb on dxun. Your lead character's inquiry will cue for mandalore's recollection of the mandalorians' history after making a pact with Exar Kun some 45 years before that. Just be curious, he'll chime in. This apparently wasn't as "glorious".

In K1 Canderous talks about how the mandalorians were defeated by Revan (bad end of the deal--but apparently this one was glorious). You eventually ask him what initially got the mandalorians started with the fighting in the first place (implying *prior* to Revan's reign as a sith): Canderous talks about sith who had made a deal with the mandalorians, promising them battle. He guesses these sith did whatever they needed to and sealed themselves away for a future time after that.

Shem brought up stillframe images of what I refer to in his "Seriously, what game did you play?" thread in the republic newsfeed section.


Quote:
Seems I was in error, then. Still, HK is in all likelihood trapped on Mustafar after his droid "army" kicked the bucket, but considering in retrospect how shamelessly they threw him into SWG, I wouldn't be too surprised if he resurfaced in the Legacy comic series.
Heh, I bet you're right.

In general I am wondering what becomes of M4-78. Is it forgotten? Isn't it confirmed canon that it exists even though it never made it to the final cut of the game? Can anyone confirm this?


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Old 10-22-2009, 10:38 AM   #32
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In general I am wondering what becomes of M4-78. Is it forgotten? Isn't it confirmed canon that it exists even though it never made it to the final cut of the game? Can anyone confirm this?
M4-78 is mentioned in MedStar: Intermezzo which is in Star Wars Insider #83.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:19 PM   #33
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Thank you, Ping!
You're very welcome. I'll have to find out who David Gaider is by viewing the credits in KOTOR, though I'll need to reinstall the game first.

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In general I am wondering what becomes of M4-78. Is it forgotten? Isn't it confirmed canon that it exists even though it never made it to the final cut of the game? Can anyone confirm this?
If you look closely, you can see it marked on one or two maps in the Essential Atlas.


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Old 10-28-2009, 09:32 PM   #34
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Its been a number of years since I've played, but IIRC TSL seems to loosely imply that Revan and Canderous had some sort of understanding before Revan left for the Unknown Regions (Kreia prods Canderous but he replies something to the effect that it is between him and Revan). I got the feeling that the understanding was essentially that Canderous would revive the Mandalorians to fight on behalf of the Republic (or the galactic status quo) against the True Sith or whatever Revan stirred up that threatened the galaxy. In doing so, the Mandalorians would redeem themselves in the eyes of the future Republic for the horrors they wrought in the Mandalorian Wars.

Kreia mentions something to the effect that the Mandalorians are a dying civilization being organized by Canderous for "one last hurrah."

Without knowing exactly what direction TOR or a potential K3 will go with it, I will assume that somewhere along the line a (mostly) unified Mandalorian people will put forth a heroic stand against a Dark Side threat that will eventually see the end of their civilization -- the remnants becoming the nomadic, mercenary people of the late Old Republic.
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:21 AM   #35
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I would agree.
If as in "one last hurrah" you mean a glory battle of mandos against the old sith, that isn't too far out of the realm. Possibly since the mandalorians (especially Canderous himself) actually knew about the sith empire that lurk beyond I would say that is ample motive for the Sith to want to eliminate him.

Seeing as how he (Mandalore) lusted for battle, and wanted to follow in the wake of Revan and possibly later the Exile, that would support your theory.

Suppose, there were sith militia who had not gone into stasis or sealed themselves off from the galaxy. A satellite war could have been staged, moved, and put into play in the outer rim. Out of reach in the old republic yet far enough away from the empire so as to not be discovered. Or perhaps Mandalore had rejoined his Jedi allies. Or maybe since the Republic was not paying attention to the Mandalorians, something outreaching from beyond started a war with the mandalorians alone and it went unnoticed by the rest of the galaxy. There are many possibilities as to what really could have happened.

What we do know is that somehow the Mandalorian leadership appears to be usurped by the sith, or so the republic intelligence would indicate as told by the chronicler.

Considering, too, that by TOR's arrival the mandalorians were supposedly fighting on the Sith side, it would seem to imply infiltration or corruption overtook the mandalorians as a whole, but that there may have been some who do not agree with the Old Sith and fight at least for their own survival if not the Republic.

I invite conjecture or debate on any of these points.
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Old 10-31-2009, 04:37 PM   #36
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Warning: rampant speculation

Canonically:

Revan and Exile both seem to have died redshirt deaths out in the Unknown Reigons. However, Revan appears to have knocked up Bastila before taking off, saddling her with the result and not so much as sending her child support (a hotheaded Jedi named "Shan" plays into the MMO scenario).

And this would be me rolling my eyes a LOT. :roll:

(That trope hits a very personal squick button for me, as the father of my godchild/"niece" was killed by a drunk driver two months before she was born. My spirit-sis has never really recovered from the loss, and being the "someone to remember him by" has been pretty hard on my godchild.)


Now, abandon all hope for ye has entered fanfic territory.

I run with a LSF!Revan/DSM!Exile scenario, and am an admitted heretic when it comes to the GFFA, so expect this to veer into some pretty strange territory.

Bastila: Ends up dead on the Star Forge. Why? Because K2's Crap Sack World sets up the Republic victory as a Pyrrhic one at best. Yes, the Republic took out the Sith's secret weapon, but it lost its own. Furthermore, the Jedi lose a champion and poster child that could help rebuild its rep (brief fall notwithstanding). This leads to...

Revan (or, in this scenario, Kairi-Revan Shan): Pretty much seconds after Vandar's little speech (which wasn't broadcast to the world at large, but just to the Haw's crew and Jedi present), she hands Vandar and Zhar her robes and lightsaber, pretty much telling them, "Screw you, I never chose the Jedi. I chose my family." An attempt to live a quiet retirement on Citadel, aiding the Restoration effort with the Ithorians and engaged to Carth isn’t working out so well. There’s something out there, something she unleashed as Revan that needs to be stopped.

And, leave it to Atris, who leaks the news of Revan’s continued survival to the greater galaxy (because she believed the Jedi Order was wrong to let her go, wanted her punished, and thought she would taint the order unless forced out). Queue a bunch of senators who are on that like white on rice, especially the faction that never much liked those mysterious saber-swingers in the first place, howling for the Order’s head on plates. The Jedi Order itself is declared persona non grata, and the Republic will not aid them. This attitude is why it was so easy for the Triumvate to hunt them down, why they were on the run, and why the general population in K2 collectively responds to Exile’s saber with the GFFA equivalent to a middle finger.

En route to the tragic conclave on Katarr, Zhar stops by and hands her the lightsaber and robes. He understands she doesn’t want to be a Jedi and never really did, but that she is still one despite herself. Between this and the Republic government howling for her head, Revan vanishes, taking the Hawk and the droids, and not telling anyone she loved, lest they be put in danger by the ongoing witch hunt. Of course, being alone and having told no one where she was going, this leads her right into a trap set by the Triumvate.

The K1 crew:

Mission and Zaalbar – Because Freyyr is smart enough to know the Wookiees would be in danger unless they joined the greater galaxy, he sends out his son and adopted “daughter” (Wookiees having the concept of honor family, Mission would certainly count) out to negotiate Kashyyyk’s entry into the Republic.

Jolee – As much as I hate to admit it, I think the old man met up with Nihilus and lost. No real evidence of this, aside from everyone speaking of him in past tense.

Juhani – nothing in canon on her, but I have this feeling the K1 crew put aside their differences in order to become a very well-oiled machine, and that the survivors are keeping their ears open and protecting one another. I actually place her on Dxun, where Canderous is passing her off as a soothsayer – telling her to duck and cover when Exile showed up. One, Dxun is a great place to hide a Jedi. Two, a Mandalorian camp is the absolute last place you’d ever look for a Cathar Jedi. Three, I got the feeling that Juhani’s “knight’s test” only started at the grove. The real test would be to put up with a living manifestation of all her prejudices and then conquering said prejudices to see the man behind them.

Canderous: Yes, he’s at his camp. Yes, he the last of the K1 crew to see Revan alive. He’s rebuilding his people, and hasn’t any love for the Sith. In his predecessor’s Crusade, and in Exar Kun’s War, the Mando’a were used as pawns and redshirts for the Sith. Canderous really despises being double-crossed, and prefers to be the one doing the double-crossing (see what he did to Davik!) Tied in with my theory on K1’s crew becoming a rather close bunch, I figure he is in clandestine contact with Carth. After all, Canderous bears no real ill will to the Republic. They beat his people fair and square. He knows, though, that the Republic doesn’t share the opinion. So, he’ll stay out of sight, building his clan and looking for both leads on Revan and a chance to kick the Sith in the shebs. Kreia shows up, dangles the two things he wants over his head, and shanghais him into teaming up with Exile’s sorry bunch.

Carth: Promoted to admiral despite the Star Forge and not because of it. He’s the only one of the K1 crew with anything resembling a decent reputation. Even then, there are plenty of people calling him a Sith’s joy-toy when they think he’s out of earshot (and sometimes not even bothering with the “out of earshot”). The admiral’s bars also work nicely in keeping him chained to a desk and effectively silenced. He hasn’t the autonomy Canderous does. That’s why he ends up sending Mical to walk where he can’t.

Now, the other reason I think he was in league with Canderous the entire time; the whole Ravager sequence seemed a little too well executed for something not to be behind the scenes. I mean, Canderous and his crew on board, sending the Sith a message with the usual Mandalorian diplomatic channels (explosives – lots of ‘em). And then the Sojurn, with Carth in command, just happens to show up and distract Nihilus so that the Mandalorian sabotage goes smooth? That ain’t coincidence, and considering the gents have a history and the same motives in tracking the Ebon Hawk? Even less chance of coincidence.

The K2 crew:

I play with a DSM Exile. Male, because Obsidian’s own trailer and promo art were pretty explicit on that front, the Handmaiden was well developed in-game while Mical is a half-assed, last minute addition (who makes good only in fanfic). I play DS because K2 presents such a deconstructed, crapsack of a world where a heroic Exile is a rube, a masochist, or both that “screw it,” seems the most valid option. And of his crew…

Corrupted: Atton, Handmaiden, Hanharr, HK-47, Go-To
Escaped: Bao-Dur (though it was a narrow thing), T3-M4, Canderous, Mical Killed: Visas, Kreia

Mical: Yes, he comes along on a male Exile’s quest in this scenario - screw game mechanics. However, he acts more as a Light-Side male Exile in many regards. While everyone’s hyping the jerk who came back to Republic space as “OMG! Last Jedi!” the one who actually lives the Code and the ideals they represent is the kid the Order tossed out like trash a decade ago.

Another thing I run in the scenario. He has a history with Carth. We know Carth wouldn’t trust just anyone with something like this. Going theory is that Mical was being exiled to Telos, and his ship got there just as Saul’s was leaving.

Kreia: Everyone hypes Revan as the grand manipulator? Well, even the grand manipulator was being manipulated. As archivist, she would have been in a prime position to steal anything on the Infinite Empire and pass it along to Revan. Her plan to wreck the Force needed the balance tipped to far in one direction and then echoes created – echoes Revan created in the course of the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil War. Mical almost puts it all together before Kreia mind-rapes him to prevent him from seeing it all. She’s also the only one who seems to know anything about the “True Sith,” then turns around and says that the “Sith” is only a belief, and belief is something you can’t kill. Considering the whammy she pulled on Canderous, it’s not that much of a stretch to wonder if she was “the Sith” who goaded Mandalore the Ultimate into his crusade, prompting Revan, prompting the creation of echoes, and the wounds that followed them.

She dies at Exile’s hands, but here’s the catch…a True Sith never dies. So long as there is the Force, she’s going to be caught in it, even if only as a specter like Ajunta Pal.


K3 Scenario:
In the aftermath of K2, Carth and Canderous tire of waiting. They’ve done their job. The Republic and the Mandalorians are as good as they’re going to get. Meanwhile, Canderous has escaped with the Hawk, and with something else – Kairi-Revan’s holocron.

So, they gather who’s left of the K1 crew, and take a few of the K2 crew Exile didn’t manage to drag into hell (Mical was needed to read the thing, as neither gent really can). Between the holocron and what they get out of the Hawk and T3, they’re able to put together enough to get to wherever she’s been imprisoned. To the people they encounter along the way, the sight of a Republic hero, a Mandalorian who seems to be something other than a bloodthirsty thug, and Mical (who is a Jedi in all but name) working together and cleaning up trouble become a symbol of unification. They didn’t get into this to be Big Damn Heroes, but they manage it.

They take down Exile, banish Kreia to Chaos, and rescue Revan. But the galaxy isn’t in need of her any longer. The mantle of champion’s been passed. Mical accepts the title of Jedi, and goes back home to rebuild the Order. Canderous goes back to his people, and the Mandalorians now have the rep of fierce, but honorable, warriors. Carth and Kairi retire to Telos, live quietly, and have several kids…one of which adopts her mother’s maiden name of “Shan.”

Meanwhile, Mical told a “Jedi Truth” in regards to Revan’s fate. Technically, it wasn’t Revan coming back from the Unknown Regions, it was Kairi. Couple this with an artifact or two that hint broadly at Revan’s demise (lightsaber, robes, or other personal artifacts), and the whole thing is easily accepted as the galaxy moves on.


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Old 10-31-2009, 07:42 PM   #37
TKA-001
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Originally Posted by Allronix View Post
She’s also the only one who seems to know anything about the “True Sith,” then turns around and says that the “Sith” is only a belief, and belief is something you can’t kill.
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Traya
Have we? You thought that the corrupted remnants of the Republic, the machines spawned by technology that Revan led into battle were the Sith? You are wrong. The Sith is a belief. And its empire, the true Sith Empire, rules elsewhere.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia

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