A message for Bioware: Please think of the TSL fans.

[RevanFan90]

Bioware please think of the TSL fans. Please preserve TSL's story. I will explain in my post why I think TSL's story should be preserved in the new MMO.

As you may know TSL's story is unique. It is grey and makes you question everything you thought was right and everything you thought was wrong. The plot was complex in some ways but, was written wonderfully. It had some of the most wonderful characters such as Kreia who especially gives me chills with lines like "It is such a quiet thing to fall but, far more terrible is to admit it." The story of the wound and Kriea's hatred of the force was also unique. Please Bioware do not let the stories of characters such as the exile and the lost jedi, Kriea, and what we learned about Revan from TSL fade from existence. I know you guys didn't make the story but, think of how hard those who did worked on it worked to create it and think of how we TSL fans enjoy the complexities in it. Please preserve TSL's storyline, it's plot, and it's characters. The MMO needs to be a continuation of TSL's story not the destruction of it. We want to know what happened to the Exile and the others who rebuilt the Jedi order. Those who agree with me and want to make a plea to Bioware please post. Thanks.

[Lord of Hunger]

I agree with you, but I don't think that the culprit is Bioware. I honestly blame LucasArts, considering Bioware actually makes good plots outside of the Star Wars universe.

But you are dead on mate.

Oh, and welcome to LucasForums.

[RedHawke]

Also note this isn't a Bioware or Lucasarts site... so your pleas to them directly are better served on their own forums.

[Giant Graffiti]

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger

Bioware actually makes good plots outside of the Star Wars universe.

Not really, considering the fact that they re-use the same basic plot.

[Ghost]

Well TSL was better than the 1st Kotor because it was not so serious and actually had some joking and stuff. However, both plots were good and the romance in Kotor was good. So yeah, i am interested in a KOTOR 3, not a crappy MMO

[purifier]

I thought OBSIDIAN designed and developed TSL not BIOWARE.

[TriggerGod]

Originally Posted by purifier

I thought OBSIDIAN designed and developed TSL not BIOWARE.

*takes note of forum and it's use*

Remember how Bioware was making this MMO set in the KOTOR era? Yeah, they're still making it. And retconning Obsidian's work on TSL.

[Tobias Reiper]

I still don't see why it seems broken to you guys, because think about it:
The game's far from done, and they're working on it right now, so who really knows what's going on but Bioware?
It's already incorporating a bit of TSL, how?
The Jedi, who do you think got them there?
Perhaps maybe:
Bao-Dur
Mical
Visas Marr
Mira
and Atton Rand, better known as the 'Lost Jedi'?
Also, before you say you didn't train them as jedi because you didn't feel like it needed them, it's still canon that The Exile trained each of them as Jedi (Or at least, all but one).

[TKA-001]

Originally Posted by TriggerGod

Remember how Bioware was making this MMO set in the KOTOR era? Yeah, they're still making it. And retconning Obsidian's work on TSL.

Someone remind me what's being "retconned" again?

[Hallucination]

^Revan isn't the Star Wars D&D equivalent to a character from the Book of Weeabo Fightan Magic Nine Swords.



People who play D&D 3.5 known what I'm talking about, and they're sad I made them remember that book.

[TKA-001]

Originally Posted by Hallucination

^Revan isn't the Star Wars D&D equivalent to a character from the Book of Weeabo Fightan Magic Nine Swords.

That's it?

Surely there's something more.

[Hallucination]

It's the only one that sticks in mind, but there are others. You'll have to get one of the TSL/Chris Avellone lovers to give you a comprehensive list.

[PastramiX]

TSL, who?

See how effective their marketing is?

[cire992]

Don't we already have a thread for this sort of wanton ***hattery? Not that I mind complaining about how confusing the canon is...

[Darth Avlectus]

Originally Posted by TKA-001

Someone remind me what's being "retconned" again?

When you talk to Kreia and she speaks of Revan, you say either:
The Sith teachings came from Korriban
or
The Sith teachings came from the Sith Empire

Kreia responds:
"Oh did they? Revan learned the Sith Teachings, but met no Sith Empire."

Obviously that is now retconned--but it does make her look like an even more deceitful old batwho "doesn't add up".

Originally Posted by Tobias Reiper

I still don't see why it seems broken to you guys, because think about it:
The game's far from done, and they're working on it right now, so who really knows what's going on but Bioware?
It's already incorporating a bit of TSL, how?
The Jedi, who do you think got them there?
Perhaps maybe:
Bao-Dur
Mical
Visas Marr
Mira
and Atton Rand, better known as the 'Lost Jedi'?
Also, before you say you didn't train them as jedi because you didn't feel like it needed them, it's still canon that The Exile trained each of them as Jedi (Or at least, all but one).

The ultimate visual guide (made in 2005) and a few other canon sources also claim Handmaiden Brianna was a force sensitive who traveled with the exile--as if it wasn't already confusing enough. But who knows by now.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

I think everyone needs to calm down. The fact that they are working off of the "true Sith" mystery that has captivated for four years is proof enough that The Sith Lords is factoring into all of this (and don't start with the but-they-were-mentioned-in-the-first-game argument. That was clearly a throw-away term describing something entirely different which BioWare had no intentions of exploring). This major plot device from TSL has become the backbone of The Old Republic's story. Even if they ignore everything else from the game, they wouldn't be disregarding it completely, just not referencing it (much).

Don't worry! I have no doubt that TSL's story will still fit within continuity, even if hardly anything from the game is referenced. It's the same with the movies themselves: you can watch Attack of the Clones and go right into Revenge of the Sith without ever exposing yourself to any of the Clone Wars media, but all of that stuff still fits (well, until this new cartoon show started messing everything up, but Leeland Chee has said that it'll all be fixed eventually. I have a feeling that ensuring that TSL still fits is a top priority for him as well).

[Prime]

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity

Kreia responds:
"Oh did they? Revan learned the Sith Teachings, but met no Sith Empire."

Obviously that is now retconned

Is it? I thought the new info indicated they met the Sith Emperor. In which case the statement remains true. But I admit I haven't been keeping up on every new detail.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Yeah, the Empire and the Emperor are not the same thing. One is a geographical/political body and the other is a person. And it could well be that Revan met the Emperor alone, not knowing that he had and empire and therefore not knowing that he even was an emperor.

[Hallucination]

^It's possible, but who agrees to take over the galaxy for a random dude?

@GTA: You're quoting Kreia, the galaxy's biggest Revan fanboy and a pathological liar who didn't go with Revan into the Unknown Regions, how much more unreliable can a source get?

[adamqd]

watsonreturneth

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Originally Posted by Hallucination

^It's possible, but who agrees to take over the galaxy for a random dude?

Not just any random dude. This random dude would have been the true Dark Lord of the Sith and, in Revan's and Malak's minds, the one sole remainder of the Sith Order. This guy can and did bestow upon them the title of Sith Lords, and they likely returned to the galaxy with the idea of rebuilding the Sith Empire in mind.

Only little did they know that said random dude already had an empire in waiting, Revan's being but a puppet empire paving the way for the true Sith Empire's eventual return.

[Darth Avlectus]

Originally Posted by Hallucination

^It's possible, but who agrees to take over the galaxy for a random dude?

Only a dochenozzle.

@GTA: You're quoting Kreia, the galaxy's biggest Revan fanboy and a pathological liar who didn't go with Revan into the Unknown Regions, how much more unreliable can a source get?

HA! Good one.

[Tobias Reiper]

I've been thinking, and what is it that made them wait for another few hundred years until they went to the galaxy?
Did Revan kick so much sith boot-ay before he went out that they had to rebuild it?

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Probably just waiting for what they deemed was the "right time" to act, just like the Sith in the movies.

Also, is it just me, or does it annoy you when people come in here, sign up, and make a single post, whether they had good points or not? It's like, why waste your time?

[Darth Avlectus]

Well yes and no--wait and see. If it appears they might stick around and make a contribution to LF as a meber of our community I figure sticking it out and enduring a few rounds of noob foolishness is worth it. But yes it is rather agitating when we get one-hitter-quitters so to speak.

[deathdisco]

Originally Posted by Tobias Reiper

I've been thinking, and what is it that made them wait for another few hundred years until they went to the galaxy?
Did Revan kick so much sith boot-ay before he went out that they had to rebuild it?

That's how I'd like to think it went down. Blaze of glory baby!

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram

Probably just waiting for what they deemed was the "right time" to act, just like the Sith in the movies.

I would think during the time of TSL would be perfect to invade. The Republic is weak/rebuilding, the Jedi order is all but wiped out thanks to Nihilus.
I say Revan threw a giant monkey wrench in their plans.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[Tobias Reiper]

Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram

Probably just waiting for what they deemed was the "right time" to act, just like the Sith in the movies.

No, because as it's clearly shown in TSL, the Republic is really fragile, so that would've been the perfect time to strike.

[Zerimar Nyliram]

Look two posts up (three including this one).

[Brin_Londo5]

Originally Posted by Hallucination

^It's possible, but who agrees to take over the galaxy for a random dude?

@GTA: You're quoting Kreia, the galaxy's biggest Revan fanboy and a pathological liar who didn't go with Revan into the Unknown Regions, how much more unreliable can a source get?

THIS.

Seriously, that's the thing that drives me up the wall about the TSL crowd, they KNOW that Kreia lies about EVERYTHING, and yet they treat her words (no matter how self-contradictory they are) as if they descended from the heavens on fifty-foot stone slabs with flaming writing inscribed upon them, direct from Canon heaven.

[Darth Avlectus]

Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5

THIS.

Seriously, that's the thing that drives me up the wall about the TSL crowd, they KNOW that Kreia lies about EVERYTHING, and yet they treat her words (no matter how self-contradictory they are) as if they descended from the heavens on fifty-foot stone slabs with flaming writing inscribed upon them, direct from Canon heaven.

First off get your head back on your shoulders.

Now let's go back and see what I orignally responded to:

Originally Posted by TKA-001

Someone remind me what's being "retconned" again?

To which I replied:

Originally Posted by GTA:SWcity

When you talk to Kreia and she speaks of Revan, you say either:
The Sith teachings came from Korriban
or
The Sith teachings came from the Sith Empire

Kreia responds:
"Oh did they? Revan learned the Sith Teachings, but met no Sith Empire."

Obviously that is now retconned--but it does make her look like an even more deceitful old bat who "doesn't add up".

I don't see expressed anywhere anywhere that I take her words for gospel. I may admire how smoothly she uses deception to teach the lessons and point that she *really* wants to get accross.

However, you're going off like this,

Originally Posted by Brin_Londo5

Seriously, that's the thing that drives me up the wall about the TSL crowd, *snipped diatribe for brevity*

based upon your own misconception of what I'm thinking.

I may not like TSL being retconned, but if their creative team is making it fit nicely in the unknowns or the "lied about" mysteries, so as not to completely invalidate it and wipe it off the map, then I'm fine with that.

Fact is I'm neutral about the MMO, not neurotic about it. So, you don't know as much as you think you do of what I'm thinking.

[kothandki]

Originally Posted by Darth Banana

Well TSL was better than the 1st Kotor because it was not so serious and actually had some joking and stuff. However, both plots were good and the romance in Kotor was good. So yeah, i am interested in a KOTOR 3, not a crappy MMO

I'd like both.

[Ztalker]

[ChAiNz.2da]