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Old 01-02-2010, 10:12 PM   #1
JuniorModder
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Thumbs down Unreasonable things here

1. When I came here, I was a noob interested in modding. I began to learn things about modding on my own. Then I posted a thread discussing my SC mod. And I understand that everyone is sick of noobs posting ambitious projects, but I was deeply discouraged by all of the flack and negativity that I received. I eventually got over it, but then other people started posting new ideas for SC mods, and they received similar treatment. Instead of discouraging them, encourage them. I heard a saying once "Even Einstein was a kid once". This could be translated to "[Insert modder here] was a noob once" I try to provide as much praise to noobs as possible, hoping to conquer the crap they get for having a good idea.

2. MrCharlton posted a thread attempting to discuss Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Not one person replied. Do you know why? Because the mods closed on first sight. What the CRAP was that about?! I love Clone Wars and would have posted in that thread, but OH NO somebody didn't like it so they closed it, denying other people the pleasure of discussing it.

3. There is a VERY unfriendly atmosphere here. Remember D'oh? He was on here for about a month, and he was so offended by people here that he left.
Keep it up and you'll be squashing brilliant people into the ground. I've considered leaving here many times, but because of my mod I haven't.
Someone posted a question in a thread that I could help him with. So I began to help him. I noticed that it was beginning to drift off topic, so I told him to continue the conversation in PM's. The mods picked that post to infract, saying that it was spam. It is not very wise to post your opinion on anything here because you'll probably get infracted. Oh no, you better not double post even you having something relative to say because you'll be infracted.

I'm a Christian, and in the Bible it says when someone slaps you to turn the other cheek, not slap back. I've been doing that for a while now. But the Bible didn't say anything of simply walking away.

I'm 13 years old, and most kids my age are immature brats who are selfish and unintelligent. I, on the other hand, am wise and very mature. I've done things that most people have never done. (Modding, making stop motion animated videos, making music, voice acting, writing) I am treated like an immature brat where ever I go, but I want at least one place where I can be treated like an equal, even when I make mistakes.

In short, I forum is supposed to be a place where people can converse and socialize in an environment that relieves the stress of daily life. This is very much not that. I recommend you begin adjusting you're attitudes.

And a thought about being banned for posting this, but this needs to be addressed, and if you ban me or edit this post to your own means, you live up to everything I just criticized.


JM

Last edited by JuniorModder; 01-02-2010 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:04 AM   #2
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I think you're being a bit melodramatic or at least hyperbolic. Sure there are usually some nay sayers toward new projects, but this is due to the large number of ambitious projects that members have seen fail over the years. If large mods which have been in production many years can't even keep enough modders, it seems unlikely that there are enough people to fill out teams for brand new mods as well (for instance, the dark forces tc mod for jka).

It's commendable that you encourage new members and modders, but you shouldn't expect everyone to agree with you on all points. And being as you release public material, you should be used to criticism as well. Not everyone makes a blockbuster game/mod every time out.

There have been discussions about Mrcharlston in the mod chat areas and the quick closure of that thread was most likely a result of his earlier useless thread here. There may not be a whole lot of things going on to chat about, but spam is still spam, and the mods do try to keep it to a minimum.

If you're a Christian and want to be nice to people, that's great. I doubt you'll find very many people who would admonish you for that outside of the senate/kavar areas, but again, don't expect everyone to think/act like you. Many of us are happy when people just act civilly around one another.

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Old 01-03-2010, 03:34 AM   #3
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In before someone says that the people who are trying to convince you that you're imagining things are bold-faced liars.


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Old 01-03-2010, 09:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
2. MrCharlton posted a thread attempting to discuss Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Not one person replied. Do you know why? Because the mods closed on first sight. What the CRAP was that about?! I love Clone Wars and would have posted in that thread, but OH NO somebody didn't like it so they closed it, denying other people the pleasure of discussing it.
Liking The Clone Wars is all well and good, but anyone can see that three topics on the same program is redundant. I don't know the reasons behind it, but I would guess that the other two threads were closed because they served the same purpose (although, one of them, as Bill says, was pretty much useless and was beginning to turn into a spamfest).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JM
Oh no, you better not double post even you having something relative to say because you'll be infracted.
I won't comment about the other stuff, as SWK isn't my area of responsibility, but double posting only usually results in warnings/infractions after a polite note about it. It is mentioned in the rules as well -

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWK Rules
4.Try not to double-post. It clutters up the thread. Use the Edit button to add new thoughts to your current post. Double posts may either be merged or deleted.
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In short, I forum is supposed to be a place where people can converse and socialize in an environment that relieves the stress of daily life. This is very much not that. I recommend you begin adjusting you're attitudes.
I can't possibly comment on the atmosphere in Holowan because I rarely visit that section of the forums, but 'recommending that people adjust their attitudes' is only going to add to those stresses, and rhe 'unpleasant atmosphere' that you're criticising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JM
And a thought about being banned for posting this, but this needs to be addressed, and if you ban me or edit this post to your own means, you live up to everything I just criticized.
No-one is going to ban you for raising your concerns, and I'm not sure what you mean by 'editing for your own means', but no-one is going to do that. The Staff isn't out to get anyone (We don't go hunting down noobs to infract, unless our MO has changed), or make them feel unwelcome, but I can understand how all of these things added together can lead to that feeling.

AK.







Last edited by Astor; 01-03-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:05 AM   #5
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Junior modder, you are very brave to say something like that. It was about time somebody would address this! Way to go!
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
I'm 13 years old, and most kids my age are immature brats who are selfish and unintelligent. I, on the other hand, am wise and very mature.
Pretty much every 13-year old says that, I probably did too back in the day.

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Old 01-03-2010, 10:32 AM   #7
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You think this place is unfriendly?



And why the hell are you putting relative clauses in a second post?



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Old 01-03-2010, 03:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
1. When I came here, I was a noob interested in modding. I began to learn things about modding on my own. Then I posted a thread discussing my SC mod. And I understand that everyone is sick of noobs posting ambitious projects, but I was deeply discouraged by all of the flack and negativity that I received. I eventually got over it, but then other people started posting new ideas for SC mods, and they received similar treatment. Instead of discouraging them, encourage them. I heard a saying once "Even Einstein was a kid once". This could be translated to "[Insert modder here] was a noob once" I try to provide as much praise to noobs as possible, hoping to conquer the crap they get for having a good idea.
Constructive criticism, take it as you want it... Start out small work larger, most noobs arrive with a massive idea and no clue how to mod and fail; we're only trying to help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
2. MrCharlton posted a thread attempting to discuss Star Wars: The Clone Wars. Not one person replied. Do you know why? Because the mods closed on first sight. What the CRAP was that about?! I love Clone Wars and would have posted in that thread, but OH NO somebody didn't like it so they closed it, denying other people the pleasure of discussing it.
I love the fact you quickly jump up in arms, despite the fact you haven't looked very far... there is an open Clone Wars thread. Two were closed (one of which was a fake trailer thread) and one left open, and a request for all Clone Wars related posts to go there.

Observe; here he then further posted Clone Wars threads here and here

The threads were closed as one was a prank, which wasn't funny, and because of the prank, I also closed one other thread and requested discussion of the series to remain in one thread. It really didn't need this drama... Indeed your reaction, to me at least makes me think that your the one taking all this far to seriously... It's only an internet forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JunniorModder View Post
3. There is a VERY unfriendly atmosphere here. Remember D'oh? He was on here for about a month, and he was so offended by people here that he left.
Keep it up and you'll be squashing brilliant people into the ground. I've considered leaving here many times, but because of my mod I haven't.
Someone posted a question in a thread that I could help him with. So I began to help him. I noticed that it was beginning to drift off topic, so I told him to continue the conversation in PM's. The mods picked that post to infract, saying that it was spam. It is not very wise to post your opinion on anything here because you'll probably get infracted. Oh no, you better not double post even you having something relative to say because you'll be infracted.
Where? If you mean Holowan, it is a technical forum, if you want to discuss ethics, or a TV series, then post in the appropriate forums; Holowan is held kept in check, to make it easier for modders to see relevant posts to their threads.

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Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
I'm a Christian, and in the Bible it says when someone slaps you to turn the other cheek, not slap back. I've been doing that for a while now. But the Bible didn't say anything of simply walking away.
You do realise that Lucas Forums is a Star Wars internet site, so I'm unsure how this is relevant. If you wish to leave that is entirely your prerogative; however I am sorry if you do want to leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
I'm 13 years old, and most kids my age are immature brats who are selfish and unintelligent. I, on the other hand, am wise and very mature. I've done things that most people have never done. (Modding, making stop motion animated videos, making music, voice acting, writing) I am treated like an immature brat where ever I go, but I want at least one place where I can be treated like an equal, even when I make mistakes.
Perhaps not revealing your age, would be a good start, and then also a consideration that if you are treated a certain way, it maybe because of how you come across?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
In short, I forum is supposed to be a place where people can converse and socialize in an environment that relieves the stress of daily life. This is very much not that. I recommend you begin adjusting you're attitudes.

And a thought about being banned for posting this, but this needs to be addressed, and if you ban me or edit this post to your own means, you live up to everything I just criticized.
You signed upto certain terms and conditions when you registered for the forums; part of that is obeying forum rules, and remembering things are at the discretion of the Moderators.



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Last edited by jonathan7; 01-03-2010 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 05:30 PM   #9
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When I was a noob, I never had a run in with any moderators and I thought the place was very friendly. I don’t know why, but it may have had something to do with me following the rules.

If you follow the rules then you will not have to worry about the moderators infracting, editing or deleting your post. I’d suggest reading the rules for each section of the forum you post in and utilizing PM, groups and visitor messages for your socializing.

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Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
In before someone says that the people who are trying to convince you that you're imagining things are bold-faced liars.
I'll say it, you are imagining things and taking them out of context. However, if you don't following the rules, then those things will happen and that is not your imagination.


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Old 01-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #10
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I'll say it, you are imagining things and taking them out of context.
Well, JM isn't the only one who's hallucinating, then. Must be an epidemic or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimartin
However, if you don't following the rules, then those things will happen and that is not your imagination.
Apparently there should be yet another rule created which forbids the reasonable expression of outrage when assumptions about one's religious beliefs are used to cram a very obvious lie concerning double standards down one's throat.


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Old 01-03-2010, 06:40 PM   #11
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I try my best to follow the rules. I just think they're too strict. Everything is so serious here, I just wish everyone would lay off a bit. Makes me worry everytime I post that I'm somehow braking a rule I've overlooked. That's the main reason I've posted in the groups and PM's more, because I can release the breath that I'm always holding when in the forums.

I had a problem a while back with posting pictures in my NJO thread. They wouldn't show up. I realized that it was because the album they were in was private. I made it public, and then told people to ty it now. They said it still didn't work, and then I got in trouble for something out of my control.
The main reason that I got frustrated, was that I got in trouble for this site's mistake!

I looked for the Clone Wars discussion thread that MrCharlton made before posting, but couldn't find it. And if I had known all of the information about the situation, I might of had a different opinion. All I had to go on was what Mrcharlton said to me.

Quote:
Pretty much every 13-year old says that, I probably did too back in the day.
You forgot the second part:
Quote:
I've done things that most people have never done. (Modding, making stop motion animated videos, making music, voice acting, writing)
I'm creative, polite, intelligent, and I am different and don't care what other people think about me. Most teens say the "different and don't care what other people think" part, but of course, they all dress alike, listen to the same music, do the same things.. If you don't believe I'm wise, ask me a deep question. I've discussed abortion, politics, religion, the universe, evoltuion, and relationships. All of my teachers in the past have disliked me because they were intimidated by me.

Quote:
I'll say it, you are imagining things and taking them out of context. However, if you don't following the rules, then those things will happen and that is not your imagination.
What am I imagining? The only thing I misunderstood was the situation with MrCharlton, but that was because information that was thought to be fact was faulty.

Quote:
Perhaps not revealing your age, would be a good start, and then also a consideration that if you are treated a certain way, it maybe because of how you come across?
How am I coming across? The reason I'm so quick to reveal my age, is the fact that the only productive creative things (TV shows, movies, mods) come from adults. The kids dream of all of the things that they can do, but are too lazy to even attempt to learn the steps of making it reality. I want to try to salvage the reputation that Teenagers have for being lazy, selfish, and rude. I feel like the only teenager in the world actually working to make each and every one of my dreams come true.

I don't want to be rude, or cocky. I just have been treated like this everywhere I go, even by members of my family. My friends don't give me encouragement that I need because they're jealous that I'm achieving things that they aren't.


JM
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:59 PM   #12
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... @ all that's been typed.

In as few words as possible, describe what the problem is.

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Old 01-03-2010, 07:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
Well, JM isn't the only one who's hallucinating, then. Must be an epidemic or something.

Apparently there should be yet another rule created which forbids the reasonable expression of outrage when assumptions about one's religious beliefs are used to cram a very obvious lie concerning double standards down one's throat.
Well, if you think every (or nearly all) moderators here, including the ones who've tried to keep you out of hot water, are the problem, then you may need to rethink whether your perception of their actions is in line with what theirs are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post

I looked for the Clone Wars discussion thread that MrCharlton made before posting, but couldn't find it. And if I had known all of the information about the situation, I might of had a different opinion. All I had to go on was what Mrcharlton said to me.
Always check out facts for yourself. Sometimes what people think about a situation and what the situation actually is can be rather different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder
You forgot the second part: I'm creative, polite, intelligent, and I am different and don't care what other people think about me. Most teens say the "different and don't care what other people think" part, but of course, they all dress alike, listen to the same music, do the same things.. If you don't believe I'm wise, ask me a deep question. I've discussed abortion, politics, religion, the universe, evoltuion, and relationships. All of my teachers in the past have disliked me because they were intimidated by me.
I guarantee you that none of your opinions are in the least intimidating, nor are you disliked by me. As long as you follow the rules, none of us will ever have any problems with each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior Modder
What am I imagining? The only thing I misunderstood was the situation with MrCharlton, but that was because information that was thought to be fact was faulty.
He was responding to Evil Q, not you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder
I don't want to be rude, or cocky. I just have been treated like this everywhere I go, even by members of my family. My friends don't give me encouragement that I need because they're jealous that I'm achieving things that they aren't.
JM
I understand your frustration at not being recognized for the accomplishments you consider important. If you finish them to your satisfaction, then it's irrelevant what anyone else things about them. It's nice when people give us pats on the back for a job well done, but more often than not people won't, and in fact they'll be looking for things to complain about. That's the way life runs. If you're _expecting_ constant encouragement, you'll find yourself disappointed frequently.


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Old 01-03-2010, 07:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
I don't want to be rude, or cocky. I just have been treated like this everywhere I go, even by members of my family. My friends don't give me encouragement that I need because they're jealous that I'm achieving things that they aren't.
Question for you; if you get treated the same by a lot of people, who come from different areas and walks of life what does it reveal? Is there something wrong with all of them, or perhaps something of your behaviour should be modified?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
I looked for the Clone Wars discussion thread that MrCharlton made before posting, but couldn't find it. And if I had known all of the information about the situation, I might of had a different opinion. All I had to go on was what Mrcharlton said to me.
Sherlock Holmes; "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data, insensibly one twists facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts".

A simple PM to a Moderator would have cleared this up information up; "Why was this closed".

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
How am I coming across?
As a teenager.

You spent most of your post building yourself up; this is a very teenage thing to do; now your welcome to take or leave my advice but posting a post which for the majority claims how awesome you are is not a good way to make friends; nor is it actually a good way for people to think well of you, generally what you may find is people just think it arrogant.

Personally I love teenagers, and enjoy working with them, I don't think they are lazy, and if you want to make television series etc go ahead and do that, but I would advise letting your achievements speak for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
All of my teachers in the past have disliked me because they were intimidated by me.
Seriously don't post things like this again, it doesn't come across at all well, and trust me, in my experience at least, teachers are not intimidated by very bright kids, but in fact bright kids, who are willing to learn make their job worth doing. Speaking from when I was a teaching assistant, teaching the most talented kids was always a pleasure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorModder View Post
What am I imagining? The only thing I misunderstood was the situation with MrCharlton, but that was because information that was thought to be fact was faulty.
See, I revisit this point, because a simple apology on this point would have been polite, you decided to make this public and regardless of the veracity of anything else, this point was incorrect. When you make a mistake generally you say sorry, instead of pointing out how it wasn't your fault.



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Old 01-03-2010, 07:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Evil Q View Post
Apparently there should be yet another rule created which forbids the reasonable expression of outrage when assumptions about one's religious beliefs are used to cram a very obvious lie concerning double standards down one's throat.
I can only answer for myself. I for one have never used one's religious beliefs or lack of religious beliefs to do anything. I respect people that think either way. Although I really donít understand what this thread has to do with religion unless someone is worshiping Clone Wars.

But what does it matter, you already consider me a lair just because I happen to be a member of the staff.

@Yea, JuniorModder I do know you are misunderstanding at least part of this, because I know who closed the fake trailer thread and your buddy is calling the wrong person names.


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Old 01-03-2010, 07:22 PM   #16
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Well, if you think every (or nearly all) moderators here, including the ones who've tried to keep you out of hot water, are the problem,
Not all of them, no; not even close. Way to spin it, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
then you may need to rethink whether your perception of their actions is in line with what theirs are.
So my perception is at fault again, huh? Wait, is my memory failing me as well, or didn't you blame my perception the last time? And the time before that? And the time before that? And the...
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Originally Posted by mimartin View Post
But what does it matter, you already consider me a lair just because I happen to be a member of the staff.
Nope. Never said that, and I don't. Some people do seem awfully intent on making it look like I think that the entire staff is dishonest, though. Gee, I wonder why they would want to do that. To hide behind "staff solidarity" perhaps?


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Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:41 PM   #17
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Question for you; if you get treated the same by a lot of people, who come from different areas and walks of life what does it reveal? Is there something wrong with all of them, or perhaps something of your behaviour should be modified?
In their experience, most of the Teens they've encountered have had most of the qualities that I've described, or at least have been unremarkable.
They don't expect to find a Teenager that is different. Yes, I know that this is very shallow way of thinking but it's true.

Quote:
You spent most of your post building yourself up; this is a very teenage thing to do; now your welcome to take or leave my advice but posting a post which for the majority claims how awesome you are is not a good way to make friends; nor is it actually a good way for people to think well of you, generally what you may find is people just think it arrogant.
I didn't claim I'm awesome. I just want people like ones described above to realize that there are teenagers that can make differences and do great things. It seems like I'm shoving it in your faces, but that's the only way I can get people to snap into focus.

Quote:
See, I revisit this point, because a simple apology on this point would have been polite, you decided to make this public and regardless of the veracity of anything else, this point was incorrect. When you make a mistake generally you say sorry, instead of pointing out how it wasn't your fault.
I'm sorry that I misunderstood something alright! Sheesh..

The problem in the fewest words possible: Things are too serious here.


JM
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:07 PM   #18
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I like this thread.

On one hand, you have someone bringing up a rather petty and insignificant issue, and at that, an issue that doesn't even concern him personally. On the other, you have indivudals who seem to reacting like oil on boiling water: overly dramatic. And, of course, there are ad hominems scattered about like breadcrumbs over an ocean's shore.


Continue, continue; this is fun!
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:24 PM   #19
Te Darasuum Mandalor
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JM, there is only one thing I have to disagree with. You say that "most kids my age are selfish immature brats." Not nessisarily true, your making a Hasty Generalization falacy. You are just assuming that.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:58 PM   #20
Boba Rhett
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Yes. I've also heard him make such hasty generalizations as, "Fish like water." and, "Chocolate tastes awesome."

In my experience, the ones that are the quickest to point out how wise they are tend to be the ones that arrived at said wisdom in a facile manner.
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Old 01-04-2010, 03:02 AM   #21
Jae Onasi
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But, but, chocolate DOES taste awesome!


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

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Old 01-04-2010, 06:09 AM   #22
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You guys got a teen helpline in your area? Maybe you should call it. (That's a general statement to... whoever, I don't care at this point.)

~ closed.

If you have a problem with this thread closed, don't open another because we'll just close that one too, instead just PM me... without resorting to a wall of text recording your whole life story

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