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Old 02-13-2010, 06:06 PM   #41
Zerimar Nyliram
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Haha! Was the "Dumperor" comment intentional?

Also, does it annoy anyone else when people come in her, sign up, make a single post, and then never post again, as is the case with this thread's creator? This seems to happen a lot on Lucas Forums.


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Old 02-14-2010, 01:10 AM   #42
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Yes, but this forum is not alone. Many other forums have those kind of people who join and only post once or don't post at all. What's the point of joining if you don't even want to be part of the community?

Anyway, back on topic of TFU 2, I would have liked to see a continuation of the DS ending for Ultimate Sith Edition as an addon or an extra part, just to see what happened, because it left a lot of cliff hangars. I know it's not canon, but that whole plot was really interesting. What happened to Gelen, Luke, the Rebels? Did luke become Galen's apprentice, did the rebels go bye bye, Did luke gill Starkiller? all these questions left unanswered. Sure Galen said "Very good my apprentice" at the end but that still confused me. If there is to be an explanation for the events in USE, let it me in TFU2. Hopefully, LA will have the brains to keep Galen alive or either put another main character in his place
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:24 PM   #43
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Also, does it annoy anyone else when people come in her, sign up, make a single post, and then never post again, as is the case with this thread's creator? This seems to happen a lot on Lucas Forums.
To be fair, I disappear for months on end.

And I'll just make my opinion clear: Galen needs to die. Galen needs to die. Galen needs to die. "Now the Jedi are all but extinct," not, "There are several Jedi still laying waste to the Empire single handedly as we speak. That's not including the countless who are in hiding or who you will encounter later in the EU, Luke. Also, there are a lot more Sith out there (even though Vader supposedly brought balance to the Force by destroying the Sith.)"

They can't just keep creating more Jedi/Sith (powerful ones, no less) and doing nothing to fit it in with the Original Trilogy.


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Old 02-14-2010, 08:29 PM   #44
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Yeah, I was just going to say, "Uh, I hate to break it to you, but more than one hundred Jedi survived the Purge, and many joined Luke's New Jedi Order," but I see you're already aware of what happens in the EU (which TFU is a part of, mind you). The truth be told, I don't like this, either. I mean, this was happening as far back as the early '90s, when all that existed was the original Trilogy. I mean, hello! Did you guys not take note of Obi-Wan's and Yoda's lines (looking primarily at you, Tom Veich)? But unfortunately, it's happened, it's here, and we have to live with it.

As such, my theory is that Obi-Wan and Yoda had a very particular view of what a Jedi was. To them, a true Jedi was not one who abandoned the Order and went away to hide with no intention of preserving or resurrecting it. That was the way of a coward. Obi-Wan and Yoda perhaps considered those Jedi fallen, while they themselves alone possessed the will to keep the Order going through their training of Luke, and to see it thrive again once he "passed on what he had learned."

It's one of those "certain points of view," I guess. Like I said, I don't like it and I wish Luke truly was the one remaining Jedi in the galaxy; but still, we have to deal with what we're given. Besides, these little technicalities makes it feel a bit more like a legend set within real history (like the fact that there were already Hebrew tribes living within Canaan before the Israelites arrived).

And, as I said before, there are no more Sith! The EU, while pushing it to the limit, has actually been very good about preserving the Rule of Two, at least in the most technical sense imaginable.


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Old 02-15-2010, 12:41 AM   #45
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And, as I said before, there are no more Sith! The EU, while pushing it to the limit, has actually been very good about preserving the Rule of Two, at least in the most technical sense imaginable.
...Legacy era?


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Old 02-15-2010, 05:00 AM   #46
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Anyway, back on topic of TFU 2, I would have liked to see a continuation of the DS ending for Ultimate Sith Edition as an addon or an extra part, just to see what happened, because it left a lot of cliff hangars. I know it's not canon, but that whole plot was really interesting. What happened to Gelen, Luke, the Rebels? Did luke become Galen's apprentice, did the rebels go bye bye, Did luke gill Starkiller? all these questions left unanswered. Sure Galen said "Very good my apprentice" at the end but that still confused me. If there is to be an explanation for the events in USE, let it me in TFU2. Hopefully, LA will have the brains to keep Galen alive or either put another main character in his place
I don't see the point in that because the game is focuses on being Starkiller. Having Luke there is something that gets in the way now if you catch my meaning.

And the point of these missions is to have something to do and a big boss fight. The only Jedi left is Yoda. The problem with that is exploring Dagobah. Killing wildlife over and over again isn't going to be very fun. The Yoda fight could be, but that's it.

Anyway, that's the only mission I can think of that would be be worth considering, but even I don't think it would be unless you have a situation where Yoda leaves Dagobah and you get to fight maybe some more Rebels.

That's why I wouldn't expect more missions for the alternate ending of TFU. It is what it is.


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Old 02-15-2010, 06:51 AM   #47
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...Legacy era?
The Rule of two is a doctrine of Darth bane and his line of Sith Lords, Lumiya and Jacen follow this, the One Sith of the Legacy era Follow the ancient Xoxaan... A Sith of the purest stock, The Lost Tribe are also more Closely related to the aforementioned Sith, under the Banner of Naga Sadow, another Sith Group not confined by a two Sith Rule


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Old 02-15-2010, 01:20 PM   #48
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I kind of hope he dies.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:10 PM   #49
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...Legacy era?
Yeeeeeeaaaahhhh . . . that's . . . long after the movies . . .

Really not sure what you're getting at here. The Rule of Two at the time of the movies remained intact and was never broken (unless you count a few minor things from before the prequels came out, which have been since retconned).


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Old 02-15-2010, 02:15 PM   #50
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The Rule of two is a doctrine of Darth bane and his line of Sith Lords, Lumiya and Jacen follow this, the One Sith of the Legacy era Follow the ancient Xoxaan... A Sith of the purest stock, The Lost Tribe are also more Closely related to the aforementioned Sith, under the Banner of Naga Sadow, another Sith Group not confined by a two Sith Rule
Oh yeah, the Lost Tribe of the Sith does technically violate the Rule of Two (which is ironic because they've been so diligent about preserving it since The Phantom Menace came out and have retconned all previously contradictory instances to fit with it, and now they go ahead and violate it with the most unlikely scenario). But I guess if you look at it from the perspective that this tribe was an offshoot of the Sith and had departed so far from traditional Sith doctrines that they would not be taken seriously by the "true" Sith (Bane's order), I guess it's not very serious.

If that makes any sense.


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Old 02-16-2010, 12:35 PM   #51
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Oh yeah, the Lost Tribe of the Sith does technically violate the Rule of Two (which is ironic because they've been so diligent about preserving it since The Phantom Menace came out and have retconned all previously contradictory instances to fit with it, and now they go ahead and violate it with the most unlikely scenario). But I guess if you look at it from the perspective that this tribe was an offshoot of the Sith and had departed so far from traditional Sith doctrines that they would not be taken seriously by the "true" Sith (Bane's order), I guess it's not very serious.

If that makes any sense.
All the talk of "True" Sith is retarded in my humble opinion. There's the lost tribe of the Sith, and Vergere supposedly studied under Palpatine (during the time of Maul) but then betrayed him and had to flee? Then Lumiya, a nonsense cyborg, also magically becomes a powerful "Dark Lady of the Sith." When Vader destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the Force I don't think Lucas intended Palpatine to come back, followed by generations more of Sith. Doesn't look much like the Sith are destroyed to me. Doesn't look much like balance.


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Old 02-16-2010, 01:35 PM   #52
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I kind of hope he dies.
Same here, I never liked him in the first place. I agree that he is far to powerfull/dangerous to be left alive.

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Old 02-17-2010, 09:52 AM   #53
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All the talk of "True" Sith is retarded in my humble opinion. There's the lost tribe of the Sith, and Vergere supposedly studied under Palpatine (during the time of Maul) but then betrayed him and had to flee? Then Lumiya, a nonsense cyborg, also magically becomes a powerful "Dark Lady of the Sith." When Vader destroyed the Sith and brought balance to the Force I don't think Lucas intended Palpatine to come back, followed by generations more of Sith. Doesn't look much like the Sith are destroyed to me. Doesn't look much like balance.
You can think it retarded all you want, but it's true. And I'd hate to sound annoyed, but Vergere and Lumiya were not Sith, only self-proclaimed Sith. They were never ordained into the order as we see Palpatine ordaining Anakin in Revenge of the Sith, they were only given instruction in the ways of the dark side by the Sith. These do not break the Rule of Two, and this has been discussed to death for ages. Frankly, it's getting a little annoying now. I really wish people would do their homework.

You view of balance isn't quite right either. It's not the existence of the Sith per se that caused the imbalance, it was what they had been doing behind the scenes for a thousand years while the Jedi grew complacent thinking they were extinct. Anakin destroyed this line of Sith that was keeping the Force unbalanced. Once balance was attained, it did not make any difference if the Sith returned or not after that, whether it be Palpatine's reincarnated spirit in a clone body (which you can't blame the author for as it was written long before the prequels debuted; and George Lucas reportedly liked it very much at the time) or Darth Krayt's One Sith. The Force was now in balance. The action had been carried out.

Simply not liking something doesn't invalidate it. Quite frankly, I'm thankful that Lucas Film cares enough to take such measures to preserve the continuity of the Expanded Universe somewhat coherently rather than letting it remain a mess without much order. The Star Trek EU is a good example of the latter.


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Old 02-18-2010, 01:21 PM   #54
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You can think it retarded all you want, but it's true. And I'd hate to sound annoyed, but Vergere and Lumiya were not Sith, only self-proclaimed Sith. They were never ordained into the order as we see Palpatine ordaining Anakin in Revenge of the Sith, they were only given instruction in the ways of the dark side by the Sith. These do not break the Rule of Two, and this has been discussed to death for ages. Frankly, it's getting a little annoying now. I really wish people would do their homework.
I'm sorry, but this argument doesn't even really address what I'm saying. You're saying these things are fine because of the in-universe explanation for them, and I'm saying they never should have been written because the in-universe explanations are contrived and retconny. The invent things like "true Sith" so that they can have as many "fake Sith" running around as they feel like inventing without breaking continuity. That's as distilled as contrived gets. Think about it- "There can only be two As, but we want more, so we make B, which is identical to A except in what it's called. Problem solved."

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You view of balance isn't quite right either. It's not the existence of the Sith per se that caused the imbalance, it was what they had been doing behind the scenes for a thousand years while the Jedi grew complacent thinking they were extinct. Anakin destroyed this line of Sith that was keeping the Force unbalanced. Once balance was attained, it did not make any difference if the Sith returned or not after that, whether it be Palpatine's reincarnated spirit in a clone body (which you can't blame the author for as it was written long before the prequels debuted; and George Lucas reportedly liked it very much at the time) or Darth Krayt's One Sith. The Force was now in balance. The action had been carried out.
I don't presume to know what exactly balance means, however, the act of restoring balance to the Force by destroying the Sith is irreparably cheapened by stuff like a new Sith order, which has been in hiding, waiting to strike, that then lays waste to the galaxy and takes it over. Sounds familiar. After the movies, it's right back to same-old, same-old, as if Vader never did anything. Two Sith die, a million more take their place, like always.

Also, Lucas has stated in no uncertain terms that in his vision the emperor never comes back to life. And while he's said that the expanded universe is not his world and he doesn't exercise total control over it, there is way too much room in something like the Star Wars universe to be so uncreative as to keep having more Sith versus Jedi.

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Simply not liking something doesn't invalidate it.
I don't like that they killed Chewbacca how they did. I don't like that they killed Anakin Solo so young. I would have done things completely differently. But New Jedi Order is still my favorite EU series, because it something novel, because it introduced some real philosophical problems for a universe with "the Force," because it had unorthodox characters who acted unexpectedly. It was the first time they ever really explored what was possible outside of Imperials/Sith versus Republic/Jedi.

I'm not criticizing ideas just because "I don't like them." I'm criticizing them because every time a "new" story or game is released, it's the same thing as before.


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Old 02-18-2010, 01:43 PM   #55
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But I guess if you look at it from the perspective that this tribe was an offshoot of the Sith and had departed so far from traditional Sith doctrines that they would not be taken seriously by the "true" Sith (Bane's order), I guess it's not very serious.
They are direct descendants of Naga Sadows Sith, a Sith Order unbroken since the Dark Jedi Interbred with the Sith species (6900BBY-5000BBY as part of the Sith Empire, and 5000BBY-40+ABY on Kesh)... and to my Knowledge Darth bane (Circa 1000BBY) invented the Rule of Two. How are a previous order of Sith, who have no knowledge of Bane, Hundred Years Darkness, Sith Defeats at the hands of the Jedi etc, who do not follow this doctrine, break the Rule? I'm not arguing, I just don't see how they are subservient to Bane Maybe I have missed some literature hehe.

BTW I'm Talking in universe, obviously in GL's eyes the Sith Started in 1000BBY when the Republic did (lol@continuitybetweenfilmsGL)


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Old 02-18-2010, 03:41 PM   #56
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I'm speaking in terms of Bane being the lone survivor when the Sith were completely wiped out, and his new order being a continuation of what was otherwise wiped out. I think the idea was that the Sith had been complete destroyed except for this one guy, who carried on with it in secret by means of the Rule of Two, and having other Sith sort of cheapens that.

That leads to into what I wanted to say to Lord Foley. Foley, I agree with you on the cheapening factor, I really do. There are so many directions that Star Wars has taken recently that I saw coming a mile away, and wished it hadn't. However, having all of these little technicalities within its rich fictional history adds an element of realism for me that makes me appreciate it despite its cheapness. In real-life history, we're constantly discovering all of these little avenues that shed a different light on things we thought we knew. It happens with both ancient history as well as what was very recent (research Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt and FDR, for example, and be blown away by just how inaccurate your previous perceptions of them were).

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I'm sorry, but this argument doesn't even really address what I'm saying. You're saying these things are fine because of the in-universe explanation for them, and I'm saying they never should have been written because the in-universe explanations are contrived and retconny.
True, but you can't really say this of all of these instances. Some of these things, like Lumiya and Palpatine's resurrection, were written long before the prequels. How could these authors have known about things like the Rule of Two and the prophecy of the Chosen One before they even existed? Personally, I think it's admirable that Lucas Film has gone out of its way to come up with ways to work around it and keep these things canonical out of respect for both the writers and the stories themselves as classics. How often do you see that happen elsewhere? Not often.

As for what came after the movies, like Darth Caedus, Darth Krayt's One Sith, and various Sith splinter organizations: I agree with you wholeheartedly that they are cheap, stale, repetitive and predictable. (In fact, I once came up with an idea to bring the Sith back after the movies as well, and I knew that such an idea had all of these truths attached to it. But I had it set not so soon after the movie era and did my best to make it completely unlike anything we'd ever seen previously. But the Legacy was announced, and it was such a movie-era wannabe that it was painful: a new Empire, the Dark Lord of the Sith is the Emperor of the galaxy, et cetera.) However, these things add realism to the universe. I get the whole Sith-are-gone poetic justice thing, but what's to stop some other group from rising up and declaring themselves Sith? What's to stop two Sith Lords under the Rule of Two from bending it beyond recognition by jumping through any loophole they possibly can? Things like this happen in real life all the time (well, not with Sith, but you know what I mean), and so it adds another level of veneration for the franchise for me. There are conflicting stories, inconsistencies, multiple accounts, and all that stuff. It sort of makes me feel like I'm reading a combination of Greek mythology, history and politics. It adds a whole new level of appeal despite being largely cheap in many ways.


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Old 03-22-2010, 11:45 AM   #57
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Yeah, the name "Starkiller" is kinda dumb and kiddish if you ask me! I think we should refer to him as Galen or the Apprentice. It would just be stupid if he died at the end of this game too, because they will probably make a third, and if he comes back to life AGAIN in the third, it would just be another reason not to play it. I sure hope this one has a logical explination of how he is suddenly alive again. I hope it isn't some sort of dumb reserection. I still look forward to this game though!
I read somewhere that starkiller was originally going to be lukes last name!

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Old 03-23-2010, 01:26 PM   #58
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That's right. In Lucas' early scripts for Star Wars back in the 70's, it was Luke Starkiller. In the earliest scripts where the name appears, "the Starkiller" was a wise old man who had a bunch of sons that he trained as Jedi warriors.

The game just took and recycled the name into a new character.


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Old 04-14-2010, 06:48 PM   #59
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yea, i heard about that too^
that wouldn't make sense if it cae to be because starkiller is sort of a dark, Sithy name




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Old 04-15-2010, 12:55 PM   #60
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Why, because they used it as a "bad guy protagonist"'s name in this game?

Or because it's been 33+ years since it was invented and you have certain preconceptions about names in the universe?

Because it has "killer" in the name?

What kind of a name is "Biggs DARKlighter"?

If he were a Sith, as we all know, he'd have "DARTH' in his name (according to the new rules Lucas made up in the mid 1990's).

Think about it though...

Darth Skywalker
Darth Calrissian
Darth Organa
Darth Solo

Doesn't make a real difference, does it?

Anyhow, it isn't a big deal. The names switch all over the place. I mean, the "Dianongahs" were at one time a name for a group of people (even good guys too if memory serves), not garbage eating tentacle monsters. Even General Vader was just an ordinary official (like General Veers) before he was turned into a Sith Lord. Prince Valorum was a Sith Lord, and then, 20 odd years later was turned into an ordinary politician (though the original character sketch of Valorum eventually became Palpatine the Emperor).


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Old 04-16-2010, 06:09 PM   #61
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Same here, I never liked him in the first place. I agree that he is far to powerfull/dangerous to be left alive.
Look at us sith talking.
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