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Old 07-10-2010, 12:26 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by LogicDeLuxe View Post
Is it my remixed version by any chance?

Unfortunately, all available soundtracks are useless because of iMuse. If we want to replace the MT-32 tracks, we have to record the pieces of the original MIDIs separately, so the engine can mix it in real time. This is a big and important difference to the soundtracks meant for listening without the game.
What do you know. It is yours! Just how remixed is it?

Also, iMUSE doesn't work the same way in the SE as it does in SCUMM. All the tracks are wav, as you may already know. They're already in the xwb as full wav tracks.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:28 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by bgbennyboy View Post
I got the musicnew wavebank recompiled and after a bit of fiddling (you have to make sure the version and headerversion dwords match) got it to work ingame.

Unfortunately, although internally the names were the same, the order in the wavebank must be important because the wrong tracks played at the wrong times and imuse got very confused.

With a bit more tweaking though I should be able to give you all a working project workflow for replacing the music

Also I'm pretty sure that the matching cue file is what the game engine points to in order to play any sounds. If I'm understanding it correctly. The cue's point to sounds in the wave bank, and after comparing the order in which the speech files were ripped out and then the order of the file name list in the SpeechCues file they are not sequential. Haven't quite figured out yet how to get from the sound bank file (the cue file) to the wave bank file to match everything up. Without doing it by listening to every single file.
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:16 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by LogicDeLuxe View Post
I don't think those are related to the patch. Is there even a difference at Stan's?
In the woodshop, were someone talking by any chance? I noticed, the engine waits for voice playback to be finished before loading the next room, which is generally a good idea, but can be irritating at times.
Maybe it's just general bugs but I only experienced them during the easy mode playthrough. With the woodshop I clicked on the doorway and Guybrush walked halfway out the doorway and just froze (no dialogue was playing either). At first I thought it had glitched since there wasn't any visible animation on screen. But if I clicked on the doorway another time, it instantly switched to Woodtick hub. That happened every time I visited the woodshop too. I think I experienced a similar bug when going to Woodtick via the Scabb map.

With Stan I got a rather major bug. I think it was during the scene he gave me the handkerchief while I was closing the lid of the coffin. And suddenly he was standing for a few seconds without animating and with no face. But that was fixed after 1-2 seconds.

So well, I dunno how easy mode works. Does it have its own script files compared to hard mode, or only small changes (ie, "if this is easy mode, remove this item")? If it's the latter, I guess I just stumbled on general bugs.

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I've talked with silverwolfpet at Telltale about an MT-32. Unfortunately, he doesn't have one. But he tells me he'll get in contact with someone who might do.

So now we just need to know how to repack and .xwb and we may have MT-32 music on the way.
I've got a Roland LAPC1 card in a computer stashed away somewhere. I haven't used it in a few years but it should work fine. Maybe I could help somehow.
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Old 07-10-2010, 02:22 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by SKA-T View Post
Also I'm pretty sure that the matching cue file is what the game engine points to in order to play any sounds. If I'm understanding it correctly. The cue's point to sounds in the wave bank, and after comparing the order in which the speech files were ripped out and then the order of the file name list in the SpeechCues file they are not sequential. Haven't quite figured out yet how to get from the sound bank file (the cue file) to the wave bank file to match everything up. Without doing it by listening to every single file.
Looking at it now, XACT doesn't let you change the order of files in an wavebank or soundbank - its just alphabetical. So I agree, its as you say, its the soundbank cue's that are the problem. In the one that's shipped with the game the cue's are named "track100" etc and then the cue's are mapped to the names in the wavebank. We could fix this by just replacing the soundbank too, but its that mapping we need to get right first.

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Old 07-10-2010, 02:28 PM   #85
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Thinking about it, Unxwb can use XSB files to name the tracks (the -b switch). If we dump the tracks using that, it may dump the tracks with their correct soundbank name. If this works can we can easily work out the mapping between the names based on filesize or track length.

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Old 07-10-2010, 03:09 PM   #86
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Sorted it. Attached is a spreadsheet with the mappings.
Attached Files
File Type: zip MI2SE Wave-Sound Mappings.zip (10.0 KB, 130 views)

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Old 07-10-2010, 03:11 PM   #87
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Will that work for the speech-files as well?
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:12 PM   #88
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Yes, I'll do it for the speech files later

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Old 07-10-2010, 03:22 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Tzar Sectus View Post
But if I clicked on the doorway another time, it instantly switched to Woodtick hub.
In case you used savegames between easy and hard mode, keep in mind that the original game displays a warning to remind you about the mode switch. This can be seen in classic mode, but is invisible in enhanced mode. If the game hangs, try switching to classic mode and check, if there is such a message box.
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So well, I dunno how easy mode works. Does it have its own script files compared to hard mode, or only small changes (ie, "if this is easy mode, remove this item")?
The latter. A lot of items and hotspots are just removed and a few are added. Some actions have a mode queries too.
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:34 PM   #90
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Attached is the mappings for the speech files.

Later on I'll amend the music extractor so that it gives the speech files the correct names.
Attached Files
File Type: zip MI2SE Speech Mappings.zip (126.2 KB, 119 views)

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Old 07-10-2010, 07:03 PM   #91
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Logic, judging by the description of your soundtrack rip, the tracks have been modified somewhat. Other than the change in drums, to what extent are they modified? Would they be suitable for inclusion into the game?
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:24 PM   #92
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I've got it all working now. It turns out that the order of files in wavebanks can be different - but you cant re-order them in the editor. They are listed and stored in the order that they are imported.

I've now got an XACT project that references the music in the correct order and compiles a wavebank that works in-game just as the original does

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Old 07-10-2010, 08:43 PM   #93
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Great news! Now, to get ripping.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:33 AM   #94
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Logic, judging by the description of your soundtrack rip, the tracks have been modified somewhat. Other than the change in drums, to what extent are they modified?
The sound of it is not altered any further. A few obvious problems were fixed. It should be all there in the description.
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Would they be suitable for inclusion into the game?
As I said, they aren't. And any other soundtrack recording you can find over the internet isn't either.
Extract the classic tracks from the SE and take a listen to all those files. See how they are separated in bits and pieces? Any rerecording has to be done in the exact same way.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:35 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by LogicDeLuxe View Post
The sound of it is not altered any further. A few obvious problems were fixed. It should be all there in the description.As I said, they aren't. And any other soundtrack recording you can find over the internet isn't either.
Extract the classic tracks from the SE and take a listen to all those files. See how they are separated in bits and pieces? Any rerecording has to be done in the exact same way.
That shouldn't be too difficult for a musically inclined person, I guess. Do you still have the MT-32 and tools that you used to rip that? And if so, would you be willing to re-rip the soundtrack at all? It seems that you know what you're doing.
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Old 07-11-2010, 12:11 PM   #96
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Attached is the XACT project file for MusicNew. It contains the correct compression preset and has the music in the correct order. When you go to compile the project it'll ask you where to find the wav's and you can then point it to the correct location on your computer.

You only need to replace the wavebank (.xwb) - leave the soundbank alone - it contains additional settings and cues that arent in the one generated by my project file. If it doesn't work, you may need to hex edit MusicNew.xwb and change the version information in the file so that it matches the xact version expected by the game. To do this, change the dword at offset 4 to 46 and the dword at offset 8 to 44.


Now:

I could produce a similar project file for MusicOriginal.wxb to let people replace the music from the old version but right now I'm not going to. While this does work and would let people edit the music there are problems:
  1. Doing this could potentially lead to a loss of fidelity in the music. For this process to work you have to use my tool to decode the music from the original wavebank. This converts it from MS-ADPCM back to a normal PCM wave. When you then put this in XACT and it compiles the wavebank it then converts it back to MS-ADPCM. As far as I know ADPCM is a lossy format so there's potentially some loss of quality. Personally I cant tell the difference between the two but I'm sure someone somewhere will claim they can.
  2. Its not practical (and a bit dubious) to distribute an entire wavebank. MusicNew is 365mb and because the audio has been re-encoded the contents of the file are mostly different to the original wavebank. This means that distributing a patch file is pointless - it'd be nearly as big as the wavebank itself.

The best solution then would be for someone to make a tool that would just patch the wavebank - keeping all the data intact, but replacing the data in one track and adjusting the offsets to match. This would mean that the quality of the source music would remain unchanged and a patch to legally inject the new music would be a much more practical possibility. If people are genuinely interested in editing the music then we can discuss this in this thread and I'll help come up with a solution. I've been burned before though with projects like this and creating tools that no-one uses.
Attached Files
File Type: zip MI2-SE MusicNew.zip (18.4 KB, 90 views)

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Old 07-11-2010, 05:18 PM   #97
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Releasing the music patch as a tool was always on my agenda. I didn't think it would be right to distribute a hack like that.

I've found someone at GOG forums that may be interested in ripping the tracks. He's already done a complete (but somewhat rushed) rip of MI1. He's asked me about the new iMUSE, but I'm not really sure about this:
Quote:
Do the new soundtrack layer tracks on top of each other or fade between tracks?
Anyone got any ideas on that? I'm really unsure how music fading works in the SE.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:02 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by bgbennyboy View Post
Attached is the XACT project file for MusicNew. It contains the correct compression preset and has the music in the correct order. When you go to compile the project it'll ask you where to find the wav's and you can then point it to the correct location on your computer.

Did you change something? Or was this just proof of concept?
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:47 AM   #99
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Anyone got any ideas on that? I'm really unsure how music fading works in the SE.
I'm been working with the music files in the remake in order to piece together a soundtrack, and I'm fairly certain there's no fading going on. The imuse seems to be working in different ways. Some examples...

-In Woodtick each area has about 18 different outros which leads to the main Woodtick theme. I'll wait until it's in place for one of those outros, then switch to that and start playing the Woodtick main theme about halfway through it. Oddly enough, I don't see the Woodtick main theme having any more than 2 transitions, which are super short. I'm certain other areas in the game do similar transitions, although no area is as complex as Woodtick when it comes to amount of transitions.

-Scene where you argue with Elaine has one main theme, with a ton of short snippets of music (about 1-3 seconds each) which will play depending on whether you choose wrong or right lines.

-Cemetary music has 2 themes (main theme and the theme in crypt), they're completely in sync and it'll simply switch instantly to the other as you move between the areas. I think some other areas do the same thing, like the music in the booty town.

-Music for the Voodoo Lady is split up into different parts. Depending on where you are, it'll either play one or two of those parts, or all at the same time. It also has short snippets of music it can play.

I'm guessing the original music in MI2 has a very similar system so if we can record the midi files within the data files, that should hopefully be easy to line up. Woodtick would probably be the biggest challenge though.
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:02 AM   #100
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I'm been working with the music files in the remake in order to piece together a soundtrack, and I'm fairly certain there's no fading going on.
There should, though. For instance, entering and leaving Largo's room changes to a different main melody while continuing the background. The original game fades them over. The SE could just do the same, but they cut to the other version instantly for some reason. So they do in any other places which are supposed to have fades. iMuse digital, while in fact different and slightly limited, is no excuse here, as we have wonderful examples of working fades in CMI and EMI.
Quote:
-Cemetary music has 2 themes (main theme and the theme in crypt)
There are more then two: Main area, tombstones, the crypt and Rapp's coffin, which are supposed to fade over. There are additional cues for Rapp's transformations. And a transition when digging out the bone.
Quote:
-Music for the Voodoo Lady is split up into different parts. Depending on where you are, it'll either play one or two of those parts, or all at the same time.
I wonder, why they decided to mix them in real time instead of fade to each other. It increases the load with no gain. In fact, it even seems bugged, as I got them playing out of sync at least two times.
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It also has short snippets of music it can play.
While those are all there, this part seems bugged too. I never got them actually playing in the game when they should.
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:28 AM   #101
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There should, though. For instance, entering and leaving Largo's room changes to a different main melody while continuing the background.
Same as with the Men of Low Moral Fiber (Pirates). As soon as you talk with them, a harmonica instrument fades up, while the background remains the same. When you stop talking, it fades away.
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Old 07-12-2010, 07:04 AM   #102
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If the Special Edition is built on top of the original game, then maybe it would be possible to disable the new audio system when in classic mode and just re-enable the original midi soundtrack? It might not play properly, but tools like VDMSound could be of use.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:13 AM   #103
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If the Special Edition is built on top of the original game, then maybe it would be possible to disable the new audio system when in classic mode and just re-enable the original midi soundtrack? It might not play properly, but tools like VDMSound could be of use.
VDMSound is for DOS games and won't help here at all. What you need is MIDI capabilities in the engine, which probably is very easy to port to Windows for them. But they apparently think that no one wants to use a real MT-32 anymore. I've heard that there is no native MIDI support for their other Steam releases either, which is an unnecessary limitation, imho.
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:19 AM   #104
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after some days of testing I can say the special edition of monkey 2 is FAR BETTER than mi1se. it feels like made by a different team of programmers. there are some minor graphic glitches or visible original pixels but it's nothing like the mess found in monkey 1. the animations are not the state of the art but acceptable, again, better than those of mi1se. the graphic art style is very good, with a high fidelity to steve purcell original art. so imho...good job lucasarts!
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Old 07-12-2010, 09:53 AM   #105
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By the way...

Did anyone figure out how the language change works in the Steam version of MI2 SE? I know it includes English, German, French, Italian and Spanish languages (for subtitles). There is a Launcher by Skidrow to change the language on their (pirated) version (which I cannot and shall not condone). However, it only works for their version, not for the original unpatched Steam version. There, on my system, the language remains English no matter what.
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:03 PM   #106
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By the way...

Did anyone figure out how the language change works in the Steam version of MI2 SE?
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Old 07-12-2010, 02:55 PM   #107
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Same as with the Men of Low Moral Fiber (Pirates). As soon as you talk with them, a harmonica instrument fades up, while the background remains the same. When you stop talking, it fades away.
It doesn't actually fade though. It is an instant switch to that variation of the tune. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't remember any fading in any part of the game.

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While those are all there, this part seems bugged too. I never got them actually playing in the game when they should.
Yeah, same here. The only time I've heard them is when I got a bug and the Voodoo theme kept playing after I left the swamp area, and then I started to hear the snippets of music on top of the normal voodoo music.
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:25 PM   #108
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Did you change something? Or was this just proof of concept?
Yes, I rebuilt the music from musicnew and checked it worked fine ingame, then I replaced MUS_Menu with a completely different song (Lucky Man by the Verve, as it was what was closest to hand) and it worked fine.

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Old 07-12-2010, 06:34 PM   #109
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Nice
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:38 PM   #110
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With a bit more tweaking though I should be able to give you all a working project workflow for replacing the music
This is great news! Good luck!

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It doesn't actually fade though. It is an instant switch to that variation of the tune. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't remember any fading in any part of the game.
Certain themes do fade between alternate tracks in the original game (low moral fiber guys, Largo's room, cemetery themes). It's not instant. I remember this clearly and experience it every time I've played it in ScummVM. The Voodoo Swamp doesn't fade in and out the instruments, though.[/QUOTE]


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Old 07-12-2010, 09:45 PM   #111
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Certain themes do fade between alternate tracks in the original game (low moral fiber guys, Largo's room, cemetery themes). It's not instant. I remember this clearly and experience it every time I've played it in ScummVM. The Voodoo Swamp doesn't fade in and out the instruments, though.
Oh, I'm talking about the special edition. I haven't heard any fading there.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:25 AM   #112
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Yes, well he was referring to the differences between the original and the SE I believe. Specifically, the fact that the SE is missing an missing instrument that the original has (and does fade in and out with, but the SE does not).


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Old 07-13-2010, 03:21 AM   #113
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I'm getting a bit confused now. Are you referring to the Men of Low Moral Fiber music? There's no missing instrument there. There's 2 unique tracks for that room, and it switches between those if you start/stop talking with those guys. I'm not sure how the original works, but doesn't it do the same thing except with fading?
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:38 AM   #114
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The original track has the trombone for Mad Marty in the right speaker. When you wake the men of low moral fibre up, the trombone fades down a bit and accordion and drums fade up in the left speaker. From what I can hear, the SE lacks the accordion and also does the panning wrong. When you listen to the classic mode music in that scene, the panning is also wrong, so maybe that's how the mistake happened...
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:18 AM   #115
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The panning is wrong because they recorded the classic soundtrack from the MT-32 and if you're playing the game files raw from the MT-32 (outside the game) the panning is reversed. They obviously based the SE soundtrack mix on their classic recordings which is why the SE soundtrack is also wrong. In their zeal to get it as faithful to the original as possible they made a bunch of rookie mistakes and it made the whole project suffer drastically.


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Old 07-13-2010, 11:47 AM   #116
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Aw, I loved that accordion
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:20 PM   #117
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thx

Hi Guys, I love what you do and what some of you also did on MI1:SE... its really interesting and cool watch how you can get into the games.. ok, so I have got some request for ya again :O)

I am used to repaint art from old games and put them back into the game so it looks better, what about some hack for MI2:SE BGs? I got the one you made for Mi1:SE and works great, but I am missing one for MI2:SE.

Could somebody make utility which will export all art out and also could be able to import them back into the game?

Thanks..

any detailed "HOW" explanation could be cool.


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Old 07-13-2010, 08:39 PM   #118
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Hi Guys, I love what you do and what some of you also did on MI1:SE... its really interesting and cool watch how you can get into the games.. ok, so I have got some request for ya again :O)

I am used to repaint art from old games and put them back into the game so it looks better, what about some hack for MI2:SE BGs? I got the one you made for Mi1:SE and works great, but I am missing one for MI2:SE.

Could somebody make utility which will export all art out and also could be able to import them back into the game?

Thanks..

any detailed "HOW" explanation could be cool.
Monkey Explorer will let you view .dxt files solely, those are the textures. Export them as PNG, make what edits you want. As for converting those PNGs back into dxt, I'm not entirely sure. That's not my department. But MI2:SE works without monkey2.pak in the same way that MISE does, so it's a simple matter of replacing dxt's with modified ones.
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:13 PM   #119
kenand
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I with my friend made full Hungarian translation of MISE (We translated graphics also the result is much better than original : )
So We would like to translate MISE 2 , but Lucas changed test files, and old translation tools did not work with MISE 2.
Does anybody can help to us? (make new MISE compatible translation tool... )
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Old 07-14-2010, 12:32 PM   #120
paprik123456
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utility

Yeah,... MI1:SE utility does this:

open and export all files from .pak file
(that way I got completely opened game with folders)

I repainted it and overwrite old ones by new ones in game folder. Very simple isnt it?
So, does somebody has the power to make this similar utility for MI2:SE?

Thank you.


2D/3D Artist and Animator
Patrik Spacek
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