Dragon Age 2

[DarthParametric]

Why have loot when you can just "streamline" it out of the base game and then sell weapon and armour DLC?

[stoffe]

I can't understand the mentality of 'oh the one with lots of exploration and side-quests and interaction was RPG of the year in a lot of places and did very well, but now we need to change as much as possible.'

All other concerns aside, I do find it slightly humorous that Electronic Arts generally is vilified as a company that just churns out "more of the same" every year to milk their franchises for all they are worth. And now that Bioware (who are EA) decides to change things in ÐA2 and not just release more of the same people are up in arms about that instead. You really can't win as a game developer it seems.

Originally Posted by DarthParametric

By "streamlining" it they can appeal to the mass market and make bigger sales. ME2 is their model (pretty much literally, in the case of the dialogue system). Now some may say that's not a bad thing and that they enjoyed ME2 more than ME1. For myself, I found ME2 lacking in many areas compared to ME1 (most notably the almost complete gutting of certain RPG elements) and am not overly thrilled with the prospect of DA undergoing a similar transition.

From a marketing standpoint it certainly makes sense. The CRPG crowd who found Ðragon Age enjoyable are all pretty much hooked ÐA2 customers already. No matter how many post angry forum rants about them never going to buy it due to the announced changes the vast majority of them will cave in and get the game anyway when it's released. So if you want to increase the size of the customer base you need to branch out to appeal to those who aren't already going to buy it anyway.

[Astrotoy7]

Originally Posted by stoffe

..And now that Bioware (who are EA)

How much do EA contribute to such decisions like game design, aren't they moreso BioWare's distributors than a guiding hand in game development? In some places, EA also distributes LucasArts titles.

Can we blame them for no JA2 or KOTOR3 as well?

mtfbwya

[DarthParametric]

EA bought Bioware. I think it's fair to say they have a significant voice.

[Liverandbacon]

The changes don't mean I refuse to ever buy it, but they have changed the game from a definite purchase to a try and maybe buy, probably only when it hits $20. I was more interested in Witcher 2 from the get-go anyway (most of the changes I've heard about for that game just make me more excited for it). I never complain about games just being more of the same if the original was awesome enough, at least, not until the 4th game in a series.

[DarthParametric]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...ndex/4376174/1

The news of no toolset is unsurprising, but if the lack of isometric view in the PC version is true I'll be seriously pissed. Especially given that devs have repeatedly assured us in recent weeks that it was being kept for the PC version. Sounds to me more and more like it has just become a port of a console action-RPG.

[Astor]

Originally Posted by DarthParametric

The news of no toolset is unsurprising, but if the lack of isometric view in the PC version is true I'll be seriously pissed. Especially given that devs have repeatedly assured us in recent weeks that it was being kept for the PC version. Sounds to me more and more like it has just become a port of a console action-RPG.

If that's true, then for me at least, that may well be the deal breaker.

[SW01]

Now just to wait for the announcement 'oh yeah actually it's a console port after all, but here's a shiny new item to make up for it that you could've created in 20 seconds with the toolset that you're not getting.'

[Q]

If there's no isometric view I won't be playing this game.

[PastramiX]

I find this humorous, in a very sad way. Yes, Dragon Age 2 is being consolized for the masses. Ho-hum; pass the butter.

RPGs, and gaming in-general, has become more console-oriented; it's been that way for close to a decade now. Has it really taken just one game for everyone to A) wake up and notice and B) get angry about it? Did anyone realize that each successive BioWare/Bethesda/Obsidian game has been more action-oriented, more "streamlined"?

Then, Dragon Age was released, and returned to more orthodox roots. A lot of people liked it, and apparently, many didn't like it. Judging by the sequel, many of the haters were console owners, so now EA/BioWare is creating DA2 with consoles in-mind. It's unsurprising, really, and it's not even upsetting anymore, though it is disappointing.

This is the same dilemma that some have been lamenting at for years, but only in a very condensed amount of time. By principle, the same critics of the dumbed-down DA2 should also be wailing over Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3, and every Game of the Year RPG in the last decade, which could also be applied to earlier games like KotOR (though I consider KotOR to still be a rather good RPG, all-in-all).

[DarthParametric]

Seems there is going to be some sort of half-assed isometric view in the PC version - http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...lf%3D8#4381246 Sounds to me like even that will probably end up getting scrapped before release.

Originally Posted by PastramiX

By principle, the same critics of the dumbed-down DA2 should also be wailing over Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3, and every Game of the Year RPG in the last decade

Indeed. Some of us have been doing just that.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by PastramiX

I find this humorous, in a very sad way. Yes, Dragon Age 2 is being consolized for the masses. Ho-hum; pass the butter.

RPGs, and gaming in-general, has become more console-oriented; it's been that way for close to a decade now. Has it really taken just one game for everyone to A) wake up and notice and B) get angry about it? Did anyone realize that each successive BioWare/Bethesda/Obsidian game has been more action-oriented, more "streamlined"?

Then, Dragon Age was released, and returned to more orthodox roots. A lot of people liked it, and apparently, many didn't like it. Judging by the sequel, many of the haters were console owners, so now EA/BioWare is creating DA2 with consoles in-mind. It's unsurprising, really, and it's not even upsetting anymore, though it is disappointing.

This is the same dilemma that some have been lamenting at for years, but only in a very condensed amount of time. By principle, the same critics of the dumbed-down DA2 should also be wailing over Mass Effect 2, Fallout 3, and every Game of the Year RPG in the last decade, which could also be applied to earlier games like KotOR (though I consider KotOR to still be a rather good RPG, all-in-all).

This sounds console-ified to a much larger degree than Mass Effect 2 from Mass Effect was (though I was not a fan of many changes in ME2). Dragon Age was garbage on consoles, it looked like dog **** and the combat system did not look appealing at all. The screenshots they've released of DA2 also look like garbage. I don't think it's unfair for people to be upset when BioWare admitted that the PC version surpassed their expectations in terms of sales and then they go and say **** you to all those buyers.

[DarthParametric]

The debut trailer is out: http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/17/dr...ears-us-apart/

Another pre-rendered CG-fest that tells you squat about the game. Sigh.

And another preview by IGN. This one has a sprinkling of new info.

[igyman]

Well the trailer tells me that Hawke doesn't look like a copy of Leonidas from 300, like I suspected before, but rather like a Dragon Age version of the Prince of Persia. Whether this is an improvement over my first impression, I'm not sure yet.

The IGN article was far more useful in terms of info than the trailer.

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by Jeff

I don't think it's unfair for people to be upset when BioWare admitted that the PC version surpassed their expectations in terms of sales and then they go and say **** you to all those buyers.

Err didn't the 360 version of Dragon Age sell the most? That's what I heard.

Anyway, with Dragon Age 2 the Developers are going with the flow toward sales. Games are being primarily developed on the console now and later ported to the PC. RPGs are now no exception and focus more on graphics and "addictive gameplay" then depth or characters.

EDIT: Has anyone seen the new trailer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqxPB-BCLRM

It reminds me of the original's Sacred Ashes trailer. Except I still find the disembodied "Kreia"-like voice talking about destiny a real mood killer. Hawke is already reminding me of a mixture of Alistair and Morrigan, and I wouldn't be surprised if the morality system reflected this. If you were good you would be like Alistair giving roses, and if you were bad you would mention you hate weakness.

[Pavlos]

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

Except I still find the disembodied "Kreia"-like voice talking about destiny a real mood killer.

I think it's Flemmeth's voice actress, can't be certain though.

Either it's a nod to her return or they just liked the sound of her voice and thought it'd be appropriate.

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by Pavlos

I think it's Flemmeth's voice actress, can't be certain though.

Either it's a nod to her return or they just liked the sound of her voice and thought it'd be appropriate.

Isn't Flemeth dead though? Oh wait Morrigan said she "might return" and thats why you needed her Grimoir.

Who else is expecting another recycled villain and less moral ambiguity?

[truJedi]

whats the deal with the storyline in the second one ?..... ive only read a little bit about it , but atm it sounds pretty dumb!! Why would they make the hero of the first one, a villin in the second ...sooo annoying lol . Anyone else think the same way i do ??

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by truJedi

whats the deal with the storyline in the second one ?..... ive only read a little bit about it , but atm it sounds pretty dumb!! Why would they make the hero of the first one, a villin in the second ...sooo annoying lol . Anyone else think the same way i do ??

Wait... the Warden is in Dragon Age 2? I thought the only returning character was Flemeth, and she was a villain in Dragon Age Origins.

[igyman]

Originally Posted by truJedi

Why would they make the hero of the first one, a villin in the second

Where did you hear this? I've been following the news about DA2 ever since it was announced and this was never mentioned. What is known is that the new main character is a survivor from Lothering who fled Ferelden after Lothering's destruction.

Originally Posted by DeadYorick

Isn't Flemeth dead though? Oh wait Morrigan said she "might return" and thats why you needed her Grimoir.

Nope, she isn't dead. And she has been confirmed to return in DA2. She has appeared in concept art, some screenshots and she's even in the trailer (and I don't mean just the voice ).

A lot of what I've heard and seen about this game so far, didn't sit well with me, but what I fear the most is that the length of the game will suffer at the hands of "more responsive combat" and "cinematic experience". Unfortunately that's something I won't know until I actually play the game, but I do hope I'm wrong.

[truJedi]

I read here on the forums somewhere that they made the warden the new king of ferelden, and he wants to take revenge on the people of orlais for occupying his country lol....

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by truJedi

I read here on the forums somewhere that they made the warden the new king of ferelden, and he wants to take revenge on the people of orlais for occupying his country lol....

The Warden can be king or queen of Ferelden by marrying either Alistair or Anora. But only if they are the Human Noble origin. I think you've mixed up the Warden with Teyrn Loghain.

[truJedi]

lol its got me confused also, ill look for it and post where i found it

this is what i read the other day, but i dont think its got anything to do with the story...
I got it from the iron hand/iron heel thread. One that you have posted on Yoric


Sometimes the greatest heroes become the most reprehensible rulers. Such is the case with His Majesty Aedan Cousland, now King of Ferelden for five long years. Alongside his wife, the beautiful Queen Anora, Aedan rules with an iron hand, crushing the populace beneath his iron heel. After saving the realm of Ferelden almost single-handedly from the archdemon and the darkspawn, Aedan believes that the common folk owe him more than simple gratitude. He demands their allegiance and unquestioning obedience, and some wonder if Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir would have been any different if HE were monarch...

Intending to punish Orlais for occupying his native country, Cousland intends to wage a pre-emptive war against Ferelden's former conquerors. Will he fail in his vendetta, and mission to make Ferelden the new superpower of Thedas? Or will the prophetic words of Flemeth, the elusive and still-breathing Witch of the Wilds, again prove true: "Men's hearts hold secrets darker than any tainted creature?" Only time will tell...

[DeadYorick]

Originally Posted by truJedi

this is what i read the other day, but i dont think its got anything to do with the story...
I got it from the iron hand/iron heel thread. One that you have posted on Yoric


Sometimes the greatest heroes become the most reprehensible rulers. Such is the case with His Majesty Aedan Cousland, now King of Ferelden for five long years. Alongside his wife, the beautiful Queen Anora, Aedan rules with an iron hand, crushing the populace beneath his iron heel. After saving the realm of Ferelden almost single-handedly from the archdemon and the darkspawn, Aedan believes that the common folk owe him more than simple gratitude. He demands their allegiance and unquestioning obedience, and some wonder if Teyrn Loghain Mac Tir would have been any different if HE were monarch...

Intending to punish Orlais for occupying his native country, Cousland intends to wage a pre-emptive war against Ferelden's former conquerors. Will he fail in his vendetta, and mission to make Ferelden the new superpower of Thedas? Or will the prophetic words of Flemeth, the elusive and still-breathing Witch of the Wilds, again prove true: "Men's hearts hold secrets darker than any tainted creature?" Only time will tell...

Err that's a roleplay by Tysyacha. Not canon

[truJedi]

yer thats what i was thinking....hahah thought it sounded a bit odd !! IM SORRY FOR THE DECEPTION!!! Please dont judge me haha

[Darth Payne]

Just pre-ordered this version of DA 2.

Key Features:
A download code for a bonus playable character and missions.
Exclusive in-game digital armory featuring multiple weapons.

Extra content in this version:
Premium Packaging (silver foil will be used)
Coupon code to get the Day 1 DLC for free
Download Code for the Soundtrack
Exclusive in Game Items:
- Might of Sten (2H Sword)
- Apostate’s Courage (staff)
- Adder of Antiva (Bow)
- Seeker’s Bulwark (Shield)

[Endorenna]

Ooo...I might have to look into that. Bonus character, missions, free DLC, and the soundtrack? And that edition is only 50/60 bucks? Most excellent.

But now I have to decide whether to get it on PS3 for the trophies...or on the computer so I can wear headphones and click things. *frown*

I haven't really been following DA2...has anything been said about the combat system being changed?

[Darth Payne]

Wasn't that thread for Awakening?

[Alkonium]

Well, if that's available in retail as well, I'll have to look into it.

[DarthParametric]

Bioware just released a new trailer which debuts party member/narrator Varric's voice and his ridiculous looking cross-crossbow, and shows off party member and bisexual love interest Isabela (confirmed to be the same one from Origins, despite looking nothing alike):

YouTube Video

There's also a very brief article over at IGN - http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/113/1130484p1.html

[igyman]

Heh, saw the new trailer on the official site. Doesn't really show much of anything we haven't seen already in various screenshots. I noticed one thing, though, and it doesn't make me any happier about the game - the party members seem to always be wearing the same clothes in this trailer, while Hawke wears at least two different armors. It's still too early to tell, but this sort of thing screams ME2 "customization" to me. Obviously, we won't know for sure what can and can't be done until we see, or read a proper review, or play the game ourselves.

[Lord of Hunger]

I know that's a game trailer, but those graphics just don't sell it to me.

[Mav]

Originally Posted by Lord of Hunger

I know that's a game trailer, but those graphics just don't sell it to me.

The seemingly new direction of game-play worries me more than the graphics.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I actually like the new graphics. They look more cartoonish but they didn't went overboard with it - like they did with TOR - and the animations seems more fluid. Not so sure if new gameplay is going to be much of a problem since I never thought the one on the original was the best stuff ever either.

[Lord of Hunger]

Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del

I actually like the new graphics. They look more cartoonish but they didn't went overboard with it - like they did with TOR - and the animations seems more fluid.

It could just be our tastes in graphics, but I'd say that those graphics are less fluid and even more cartoonish. TOR's animations are at least in sync in regards to their animations (model movements lining up correctly), while in this trailer they were very out of sync.

Originally Posted by Mav

The seemingly new direction of game-play worries me more than the graphics.

At the moment I am using graphics as an assessment because simply put Bioware games tend to be sold on graphics. Granted, Mass Effect (I & II) has an interesting combat system, but I've seen the same thing done in other games.

Most of what's really changed with Bioware's games since Jade Empire is "higher quality" graphics and cutscenes.

[SW01]

If it's going to have that awful Mass Effect 2 armour system, with very limited PC choices and no party-NPC choices, I think it would actually be quite a big problem for me. I like the option of the unique npc clothing and all that (as with Morrigan in DAO), but it shouldn't be at the expense of the customisation option that comes with the simple ability to equip armour and items.

Hopefully, all of the above there is just an unfortunate misperception of the trailer.

And I, at least, was very happy with DAO's graphics. I saw (and see) no problem with them that couldn't be solved with, perhaps, using a higher resolution on the textures. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, the 'new and unique graphical style' isn't anywhere near the list of draws to the game. Again, it's the potential impact on customisation, of faces this time, that worries me. The Mass Effect 2 example springs to mind - custom looked nowhere near the quality of the default, far less the standard of other things in the game.

As for gameplay, the big thing concerning me (still) is the 'framed narrative' and 'cutting down on shoe leather'. Now, having recently played The Witcher I'm marginally less worried about how restrictive it is, but compared to DAO there is no denying that it is still rather restrictive. That may just be down to personal taste...

[DarthParametric]

Originally Posted by SW01

Hopefully, all of the above there is just an unfortunate misperception of the trailer.

I think the armour thing is a misconception. Based on dev comments, both direct and indirect, the equippable armour/clothes system should be pretty much unchanged. Remember that Morrigan appeared in her unique outfit in all the pre-release vids for Origins and you could change her appearance just fine. By all accounts, most of the underlying systems in that regard haven't been radically altered from what I can tell, so I wouldn't get too hung up about that sort of thing. Especially given that there are plenty of actual confirmed changes for us to bitch and moan about.

Originally Posted by SW01

As for gameplay, the big thing concerning me (still) is the 'framed narrative' and 'cutting down on shoe leather'.

I have to say I have my own concerns as well about that, based on some of the dev comments (like the shoe leather one). I have no particular issue with the framed narrative mechanic itself - in principle there is no reason it should have a negative impact on the game if used well. I guess the question is how exactly they employ it and how that impacts on your freedom. Bioware games are always going to be fairly constrictive and linear by their very nature, so you shouldn't be expecting something like Oblivion/Fallout 3 where you wander around aimlessly with no purpose. By the same token, I don't think you are going to see something as restrictive as the most recent framed narrative example Alpha Protocol, where each "hub" had a very limited number of small maps to shoot some stuff in. I expect something akin to Origins where you basically have access to a number of areas accessible via the overland map throughout the majority of the game. The main thing I see the framed narrative angle changing is what quests are available at any given moment, most obviously focused around the progression of the central plot. The question is how much they are going to string those out and what impact the time jumps associated with plot progression will have on your freedom to play the game in the manner you desire.

[Drunkside]

It looks like the JA combat system is going to make a comeback, and that alone is worth celebration to me

[Char Ell]

JA combat system? What is that? Jedi Academy's combat system?

IMHO still not a lot of substance to BioWare's Dragon Age 2 promotions. I guess they have some time though since the game isn't scheduled to launch until March.

I'm still on the fence when it comes to buying Dragon Age 2 at launch. I grow weary of the DLC parade in BioWare games and would prefer to wait for a "content complete" version. Unfortunately the only reason I'm even on the fence is due to my OCD when it comes to acquiring the supposedly unique items available for pre-ordering, signing up for the newsletter, etc.

[Sabretooth]

*ears perk*

Jedi Academy? WHERE?!