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Old 11-22-2010, 11:58 PM   #1
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Starkiller Can Fly? O_o

Towards the end of the game, when Starkiller bursts out of the Salvation, why is he flying towards the city, instead of falling??? O_o

I already saw him pull a SpiderMan as he dove and dodged debris while attempting to rescue Kota, but now, what, he's pulling a superman???


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Old 11-23-2010, 12:45 AM   #2
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he is falling. Hes not flying, hes kinda falling on an angle
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:01 AM   #3
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Yeah, he's falling at an angle, which is actually possible in real life. Take a look at wingsuits: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying Essentially just some cloth between your legs and between your arms and torso, and it enables you to easily get a glide ratio of 2.5:1, ie. you move 2.5 times further forwards than you do downwards. With the amount of exaggeration that goes on everywhere in this game, that scene doesn't really strike me as exceptionally implausible (stress on compared to the rest of the game).
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:58 AM   #4
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he's falling, but probably used the force to control his falling.
btw, every jedi could fly if they would use telekinesis on themselfs
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:21 AM   #5
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Yeah, several places in the EU mention Jedi having the ability to control their falls or slow themselves down when falling.


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Old 11-23-2010, 03:14 PM   #6
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You don't need the EU for that, take a look at Windu leaping from Dooku's observation balkony in Ep2. I'd say a fall like that would kill or at least completely cripple an ordinary human being but Windu not only isn't bothered by it at all, he even takes his robe off while in mid-air. He's clearly not only able to survive such falls but proficient in it to such a degree that he doesn't even need to concentrate and can afford to multi-task.
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Old 11-23-2010, 04:04 PM   #7
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That's true, I hadn't thought of that. The EU came to mind mainly because this game is part of it.


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Old 11-23-2010, 07:28 PM   #8
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What difficulty levels are there in the first one? I just got both 1 & 2, but am still on the first one (it's on the hardest difficulty at the moment).

And is there a difficulty you have to unlock on the first one?




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Old 11-23-2010, 10:04 PM   #9
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Yeah, he's falling at an angle, which is actually possible in real life. Take a look at wingsuits: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingsuit_flying
That's pretty cool.

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he's falling, but probably used the force to control his falling.
btw, every jedi could fly if they would use telekinesis on themselfs
I guess I always thought force users could only jump high or fall down and land easily. The word "fly" never came to me, until I saw Starkiller do it. I guess it seems strange to me is all *shrugs*

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take a look at Windu leaping from Dooku's observation balkony in Ep2. I'd say a fall like that would kill or at least completely cripple an ordinary human being but Windu not only isn't bothered by it at all,
We know Jedi can use the force to slow themselves down, even in a fall-although why obi-wan didn't in the phantom menace.

I just never would of thought possible for a Jedi to burst out of a ship and basically fly right next to it. That seems way out there, to me.


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Old 11-24-2010, 11:05 AM   #10
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It's not flying, it's falling with style!

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Old 11-24-2010, 12:04 PM   #11
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We know Jedi can use the force to slow themselves down, even in a fall-although why obi-wan didn't in the phantom menace.
Because TPM has by far the stupidest, most inconsistent writing in the whole hexalogy. You might as well ask how come Qui-Gon and Maul managed to go through all the red forcefields even though they went slowly on account of trying to slice each other up, whereas Obi-Wan didn't make it even though he ran and had nothing to slow him down. Or, for that matter, why didn't he use his super-speed that the film establishes right in the beginning he has. Or what those red force fields were there for in the first place...
Or why the room they were in earlier has narrow walkways suspended a hundred meters high with no safety features whatsoever. Apparently the Naboo haven't developed handrail technology yet.

I think TFU2 is the result of exactly the same kind of reasoning that produced TPM. Nevermind whether it's consistent, plausible, or makes any sense. It looks cool and that's what matters. Fortunately it works a lot better in videogame format than it did in film format.

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Old 11-24-2010, 04:23 PM   #12
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It's not flying, it's falling with style!
haha now where have a heard that one before .... ive gone blank


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Old 11-24-2010, 05:25 PM   #13
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGzemN7Dc8


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Old 11-25-2010, 11:42 AM   #14
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You might as well ask how come Qui-Gon and Maul managed to go through all the red forcefields even though they went slowly on account of trying to slice each other up, whereas Obi-Wan didn't make it even though he ran and had nothing to slow him down.
Um, I don't see what the problem is here. Jinn/Maul come up to the barriers and they open, and move through and the eventually close. At one point while the closeup is on them you can see Kenobi running waaaaay in the distance. Then a short time later you see he is closer but not there yet. Then finally when he gets there the barrier closes. Seems to make sense to me.

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Or, for that matter, why didn't he use his super-speed that the film establishes right in the beginning he has.
The real answer is because the plot demanded he be separated from Jinn. But this is a typical problem with superhero-ish stories. People can always find another way powers could be used to solve a problem. But you can always come up with some reason. Maybe, since using the Force takes effort, Kenobi was saving that effort for fighting Maul, and thought he could make it in time by normal running, which he almost did. I'm sure someone else could come up with another reason.

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Or what those red force fields were there for in the first place...
Or why the room they were in earlier has narrow walkways suspended a hundred meters high with no safety features whatsoever. Apparently the Naboo haven't developed handrail technology yet.
Such walkways are everywhere in SW. Everywhere. Naboo, Death Star, Coruscant apartments, etc. Just a stylistic choice. My theory is that the galaxy is more like Sweden than America in that you can't just sue the pants off everyone when you do something stupid like falling off a ledge with no railing.

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Old 11-25-2010, 02:02 PM   #15
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Because TPM has by far the stupidest, most inconsistent writing in the whole hexalogy.
I'm not sure that's true at all.



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Old 11-25-2010, 02:34 PM   #16
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Um, I don't see what the problem is here. Jinn/Maul come up to the barriers and they open, and move through and the eventually close. At one point while the closeup is on them you can see Kenobi running waaaaay in the distance. Then a short time later you see he is closer but not there yet. Then finally when he gets there the barrier closes. Seems to make sense to me.
Not so. Maul and Jinn enter the corridor just as the barriers open, with Kenobi in the distance. Then the barriers close, trapping Jin and Maul in the last and second to last compartments. Kenobi is shown stopping outside just as the first barrier closes right in front of him. Then as the barriers open again, Kenobi starts running at full pelt and manages to get to the last compartment, ie. as far as Maul did while fending off Jinn.
Watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKg4CUQLq0k

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The real answer is because the plot demanded he be separated from Jinn.
Well obviously, but good films tend to give justifications for stuff that go beyond that and actually make sense within the fictional reality.

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Kenobi thought he could make it in time by normal running, which he almost did.
Yeeeaaaah, good call, Benny boy!

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I'm not sure that's true at all.
Which one do you think is stupider, then? IMO Eps 2 and 3, while by no means brilliant masterpieces, weren't nearly as bad. Surely you're not thinking of the original trilogy?
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Old 11-25-2010, 03:38 PM   #17
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Well obviously, but good films tend to give justifications for stuff that go beyond that and actually make sense within the fictional reality.
What about him being already tired?

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Which one do you think is stupider, then? IMO Eps 2 and 3, while by no means brilliant masterpieces, weren't nearly as bad. Surely you're not thinking of the original trilogy?
None. Just because I don't think TPM has stupid or inconsistent writing, doesn't mean I think there's one movie that has it. And for your information, the OT is not without some plot holes.



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Old 11-25-2010, 04:09 PM   #18
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What about him being already tired?
From what, standing in front of a closed force field? If he was so tired that he couldn't run such a short distance, then I'd say rushing into a life or death lightsaber fight would be rather foolish. Not to mention that he did quite well in that fight, indicating that he had plenty of energy left.
More to the point, you may be able to come up with a plausible reason for why he didn't make it (and why the force fields were there in the first place). But that's still only speculation, it's not given in the movie. And given how critical this moment was in the plot and outcome of the film, I'd say it should have been given.

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I don't think TPM has stupid or inconsistent writing.
Ah. In that case I'll let Mr. Plinkett do the explaining: http://www.redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html

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And for your information, the OT is not without some plot holes.
Oh certainly, but none are significant enough to detract from the quality of the movie and the experience of the viewer (as evidenced by the fact that I can't recall any besides Kenobi addressing Vader "Darth", as if that was a first name). IMO the holes in TPM are much more gaping.

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Old 11-25-2010, 05:38 PM   #19
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From what, standing in front of a closed force field? If he was so tired that he couldn't run such a short distance, then I'd say rushing into a life or death lightsaber fight would be rather foolish. Not to mention that he did quite well in that fight, indicating that he had plenty of energy left.
Energy (or rage) brought by the death of his master. Was that so hard to understand? He didn't used Force speed because he was tired. Yet he tried to help his master in the duel but got caught by the last field. The rest comes to what I've mentioned before.

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More to the point, you may be able to come up with a plausible reason for why he didn't make it (and why the force fields were there in the first place). But that's still only speculation, it's not given in the movie. And given how critical this moment was in the plot and outcome of the film, I'd say it should have been given.
Why the force fields were there? Security, perhaps. Not everything has to be explained in a movie. Do you question why did the Death Star arrived right behind Yavin? Or why there are so few TIE fighters in the Death Star? Anyway, none of those situations detract the overall story or situation. The ones you mentioned are no exception.

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Ah. In that case I'll let Mr. Plinkett do the explaining: http://www.redlettermedia.com/phantom_menace.html
I don't think that review (or should I call it nitpicking?) is a reference for anything. If he wasn't an hypocrite, he would do a review(?) for the rest of the movies. Not just the prequels or whatever...

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Oh certainly, but none are significant enough to detract from the quality of the movie and the experience of the viewer (as evidenced by the fact that I can't recall any besides Kenobi addressing Vader "Darth", as if that was a first name). IMO the holes in TPM are much more gaping.
Which holes? I saw no significant holes in TPM or any of the movies that detract from the quality or experience the movie gave me. I'd say the holes in the OT are way more obvious than the ones in the PT. But that doesn't mean one is better or worse than the other because of that.



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Old 11-25-2010, 07:01 PM   #20
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Energy (or rage) brought by the death of his master. Was that so hard to understand? He didn't used Force speed because he was tired. Yet he tried to help his master in the duel but got caught by the last field. The rest comes to what I've mentioned before.
Yeah, I believe I've also answered this argument before.

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Why the force fields were there? Security, perhaps.
Yeah, security forcefields that open automatically every two minutes. That's gotta be superbly secure.

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Not everything has to be explained in a movie.
It does if the film doesn't want to end up being an incoherent mess.

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Do you question why did the Death Star arrived right behind Yavin? Or why there are so few TIE fighters in the Death Star?
The Death Star arrived behind Yavin because that's the direction it was traveling from, as made obvious by the shot of the DS approaching the planet.
As for TIE fighters, it's made abundantly clear throughout the film that the Empire doesn't consider single-seat fighters to be a threat. First they say the station is the ultimate power in the universe, then the Rebel general spells it out in the briefing before the attack, and then finally nobody bothers doing anything when the Rebel fighters come. The only one who gives the order to launch some fighters is Vader. Tarkin doesn't care at all, even when they tell him there is real danger he refuses to do anything. The DS only launches enough fighters to deal with the Rebels ships present, and indeed the TIEs do manage that quite effectively. In terms of ships destroyed by enemy fire, we see the Rebels lose 9 against the Empire's 3. They didn't launch more fighters because they didn't need to, they were winning three to one.
The reason the DS got destroyed was not because it launched too few fighters, it was because Vader was being an arrogant ass who wanted the kills for himself. He specifically orders his wingmen to hold fire so he can pick off the Rebel ships himself, thus giving Han enough time to come in and save the day. Had he not done so the three of them would've blasted Luke to bits long before Han ever showed up. The lack of imperial fighters wasn't the issue, Vader having his wingmen sit there and do nothing while he fiddles with his controls was.

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Anyway, none of those situations detract the overall story or situation. The ones you mentioned are no exception.
Actually yeah, they are. I did explain why, and I've pointed you to a rather comprehensive explanation of almost everything that's wrong with that film. If you reject that, that's your business, but the fact of the matter is almost every point Plinkett makes is absolutely true.

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I don't think that review (or should I call it nitpicking?) is a reference for anything. If he wasn't an hypocrite, he would do a review(?) for the rest of the movies. Not just the prequels or whatever...
You can suggest that to him. Just because he didn't get around to them yet is no reason to call him a hypocrite. I might as well call you an immature fanboy just because you like TPM and it wouldn't be any more justified.

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Which holes? I saw no significant holes in TPM or any of the movies that detract from the quality or experience the movie gave me.
I guess that would kinda depend on what you expect from the film.

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I'd say the holes in the OT are way more obvious than the ones in the PT.
Yeah, you'd say that. But only because you're trying to be contrary. If you want to, we can discuss it in detail and see if you really have a point or if you're just flapping your jaw. Feel free to point some of those holes out if you want to go for it. It would be my pleasure.

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But that doesn't mean one is better or worse than the other because of that.
Right. When one thing has flaws and another thing doesn't, that doesn't mean one of them is better than the other. I guess it's kinda clear why you didn't see any holes in TPM.
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:22 PM   #21
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dude its a movie , science fiction, fantasy , unrealistic and imagination comes to mind.
who cares .... if we sat and analysed every movie that came out as to why didnt he do this or why didnt they zig when they could have zagged , it would turn into a job or something and not a fun passtime. your looking into it to much.


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Old 11-25-2010, 09:07 PM   #22
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Well I guess that depends on your idea of fun. Thinking about things is mine. If that's not your cup of tea, feel free to ignore anything I have to say.
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Old 11-25-2010, 09:49 PM   #23
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Just a thought: Perhaps Obi-Wan refrained from using Force speed in order to have an easier time coming to a halt should a force field pop up in front of him?


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Old 11-26-2010, 05:20 AM   #24
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Yeah, I believe I've also answered this argument before.
You mean, it wasn't explained in the movie?

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Yeah, security forcefields that open automatically every two minutes. That's gotta be superbly secure.
Yes, if they can lock when an intruder is detected.

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It does if the film doesn't want to end up being an incoherent mess.
And where is the incoherence? Just because you don't understand or it isn't explained the purpose of an object, does it make it incoherent? I think you should review the concept of incoherence...

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The Death Star arrived behind Yavin because that's the direction it was traveling from, as made obvious by the shot of the DS approaching the planet.
A camera move doesn't show th DS approaching Yavin.

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As for TIE fighters, it's made abundantly clear throughout the film that the Empire doesn't consider single-seat fighters to be a threat. First they say the station is the ultimate power in the universe, then the Rebel general spells it out in the briefing before the attack, and then finally nobody bothers doing anything when the Rebel fighters come.
One of the generals does mention that they can find a weakness and exploit it. Why would there be Rebel fighters in the DS if it wasn't because a weakness was found?


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The only one who gives the order to launch some fighters is Vader. Tarkin doesn't care at all, even when they tell him there is real danger he refuses to do anything. The DS only launches enough fighters to deal with the Rebels ships present, and indeed the TIEs do manage that quite effectively.
Of course they did...

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In terms of ships destroyed by enemy fire, we see the Rebels lose 9 against the Empire's 3. They didn't launch more fighters because they didn't need to, they were winning three to one.
The reason the DS got destroyed was not because it launched too few fighters, it was because Vader was being an arrogant ass who wanted the kills for himself. He specifically orders his wingmen to hold fire so he can pick off the Rebel ships himself, thus giving Han enough time to come in and save the day. Had he not done so the three of them would've blasted Luke to bits long before Han ever showed up. The lack of imperial fighters wasn't the issue, Vader having his wingmen sit there and do nothing while he fiddles with his controls was.
He says, "get the crew to their fighters". There's no reason for them not sending more than they did.

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Actually yeah, they are. I did explain why, and I've pointed you to a rather comprehensive explanation of almost everything that's wrong with that film. If you reject that, that's your business, but the fact of the matter is almost every point Plinkett makes is absolutely true.
Is it true? I'd say he refuses to understand some concepts in order to critisize what he wants to. But saying he is right or wrong is a matter of opinion, and I won't get into that.

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You can suggest that to him. Just because he didn't get around to them yet is no reason to call him a hypocrite.
I did suggest that to him. I call him an hypocrite because he said he would ony do a "review" about the prequels as far as Star Wars concerns.

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I might as well call you an immature fanboy just because you like TPM and it wouldn't be any more justified.
I would like you to explain where was I immature or fanboy.

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I guess that would kinda depend on what you expect from the film.
Again, where is the significant plot hole?

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Yeah, you'd say that. But only because you're trying to be contrary.
No. It's just because it's my opinion.

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If you want to, we can discuss it in detail and see if you really have a point or if you're just flapping your jaw. Feel free to point some of those holes out if you want to go for it. It would be my pleasure.
Can you explain why did Leia went to the main (and probably only) Rebel base if she knew the Falcon was being tracked? Or that famous moment "Don't shoot! There are no life forms on board."

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Right. When one thing has flaws and another thing doesn't, that doesn't mean one of them is better than the other. I guess it's kinda clear why you didn't see any holes in TPM.
Are you kidding? Are you saying the OT is flawless? I guess it's kinda clear why you need to nitpick about the TPM...

Oh, and maybe it's better for you to reply through PM's. This is getting far off-topic.



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Old 11-26-2010, 07:51 AM   #25
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You mean, it wasn't explained in the movie?
Is that what I said? No, it's not.

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Yes, if they can lock when an intruder is detected.
Such as three guys waving lightsabers around? Didn't do much locking in that scene, did they?

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And where is the incoherence? Just because you don't understand or it isn't explained the purpose of an object, does it make it incoherent? I think you should review the concept of incoherence...
Watch the review, it's all explained in it. I'm not going to re-type all of the points Plinkett makes here. I get that you're trying to troll me by making me waste as much time as possible on this, but I'm not biting.

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A camera move doesn't show th DS approaching Yavin.
Yes it does: http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4438/dsyavin.png
And an officer even spells it out: "We're approaching Yavin. The rebel base is on a moon on the other side."

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One of the generals does mention that they can find a weakness and exploit it. Why would there be Rebel fighters in the DS if it wasn't because a weakness was found?
I see. You're talking about Ep6, I was talking about Ep4. In that case I don't see the problem at all. There were swarms of TIEs in that battle.

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He says, "get the crew to their fighters". There's no reason for them not sending more than they did.
Apart from the reasons I already mentioned.

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Is it true? I'd say he refuses to understand some concepts in order to critisize what he wants to. But saying he is right or wrong is a matter of opinion, and I won't get into that.
And what concepts would that be, specifically?

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I did suggest that to him.
Really. Excuse me if I don't take your word for that.

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I would like you to explain where was I immature or fanboy.
You weren't paying attention. I said calling you an immature fanboy would not be justified.

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Again, where is the significant plot hole?
Again, watch the review. He mentions about half a dozen of them.

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Can you explain why did Leia went to the main (and probably only) Rebel base if she knew the Falcon was being tracked?
Because Solo insists it isn't.

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Or that famous moment "Don't shoot! There are no life forms on board."
I don't see the issue here at all. The reason is given right there in that quote.

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Are you kidding? Are you saying the OT is flawless? I guess it's kinda clear why you need to nitpick about the TPM...
And I'm the one nitpicking here? Very well, let me rephrase that. By your logic, when one thing has a lot of flaws and another has fewer, that doesn't mean one of them is better than the other.

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Oh, and maybe it's better for you to reply through PM's. This is getting far off-topic.
So what? This forum is dead anyway, it's not like we're getting in anybody's way. But if you want to continue this via PM, feel free to. Personally I'd much rather do this publically so others can enjoy it too.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:54 AM   #26
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Is that what I said? No, it's not.
You said you had already answered this argument before. I went back to check it, and the only answer I got was that it's all about speculation, and nothing is explained in the movie.

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Such as three guys waving lightsabers around? Didn't do much locking in that scene, did they?
You seem to forget that Theed has been invaded, and there was no security guards there to activate any lock mechanism.

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
Watch the review, it's all explained in it. I'm not going to re-type all of the points Plinkett makes here.
Yes, because not all points he makes are valid to me.

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I get that you're trying to troll me by making me waste as much time as possible on this, but I'm not biting.
I'm not trolling anyone. I'm just giving my opinion to your comment where you say that TPM has the most stupid or inconsistent writing in the whole saga.

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Yes it does: http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4438/dsyavin.png
And an officer even spells it out: "We're approaching Yavin. The rebel base is on a moon on the other side."
Yet, the could very well make it arrive right in front of Yavin IV. However they haven't decided that while making the movie. There is no explanation for the trajectory to end right behind Yavin. It's a product of circumstances, just as the force fields are.

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
I see. You're talking about Ep6, I was talking about Ep4. In that case I don't see the problem at all. There were swarms of TIEs in that battle.
No. I'm talking about Ep. IV.

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
Apart from the reasons I already mentioned.
Right. Because they have to save on fighters as much as they have to save on bolts. How conveninent.

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
And what concepts would that be, specifically?
"Watch the review. I'm not going to re-type all of the concepts Plinkett decides to ignore."

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
Really. Excuse me if I don't take your word for that.
My comment is there. If you don't believe in it, it's not my problem.

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
You weren't paying attention. I said calling you an immature fanboy would not be justified.
Because I gave no reason for that. However, he did when he said that he won't do a review on the OT in some interview.

Again, watch the review. He mentions about half a dozen of them.[/QUOTE]

Who's trolling who?

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Because Solo insists it isn't.
Of course, if he insists, he must be right. I'll give the location of the main rebel base to the Empire, because some scoundrel says there is no tracking device on the ship.

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
I don't see the issue here at all. The reason is given right there in that quote.
How convenient...

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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
And I'm the one nitpicking here? Very well, let me rephrase that. By your logic, when one thing has a lot of flaws and another has fewer, that doesn't mean one of them is better than the other.
Yes. Because what some consider flaws, others don't. And vice-versa.

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So what? This forum is dead anyway, it's not like we're getting in anybody's way. But if you want to continue this via PM, feel free to. Personally I'd much rather do this publically so others can enjoy it too.
Because it's against the forum rules and there is a place to discuss things not related to the game.



Star Wars: In Concert - Lisbon - Some pictures of the exhibition accompanying the event.
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Old 11-26-2010, 11:02 AM   #27
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Not so. Maul and Jinn enter the corridor just as the barriers open, with Kenobi in the distance. Then the barriers close, trapping Jin and Maul in the last and second to last compartments. Kenobi is shown stopping outside just as the first barrier closes right in front of him. Then as the barriers open again, Kenobi starts running at full pelt and manages to get to the last compartment, ie. as far as Maul did while fending off Jinn.
Watch it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKg4CUQLq0k
Sorry, misunderstood the portion you were talking about. That being said, I still don't understand the problem. The shield barriers don't close at constant time intervals. Kenobi just got caught when the doors closed after a shorter period.

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Well obviously, but good films tend to give justifications for stuff that go beyond that and actually make sense within the fictional reality.
But in fantasy worlds you just can't explain everything about everything. The important points were given. I think it was clear to the viewer that you couldn't just run through the fields just by the look of them, but they also added the part where Maul taps one with his saber, clearly indicating that these were "impenetrable".

The important point for the story was that the combatants were divided. It isn't really important what the fields are supposed to do, only what it is doing and how it comes into play in the story. Maybe they are for security, maybe some safety feature, or maybe they open to release gases or something. I don't see why it matters or why the film should take time to explain everything like that. The important points were clear.

This kind of thing happens throughout the trilogy. What does a hydrospanner do? No idea. I just know Han needed it to fix whatever he was fixing. What was the tube that Luke was sucked into when he jumped on Bespin? Don't know. I just know that when that door closed he was screwed.

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Old 11-26-2010, 02:18 PM   #28
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But in fantasy worlds you just can't explain everything about everything. The important points were given. I think it was clear to the viewer that you couldn't just run through the fields just by the look of them, but they also added the part where Maul taps one with his saber, clearly indicating that these were "impenetrable".

The important point for the story was that the combatants were divided. It isn't really important what the fields are supposed to do, only what it is doing and how it comes into play in the story. Maybe they are for security, maybe some safety feature, or maybe they open to release gases or something. I don't see why it matters or why the film should take time to explain everything like that. The important points were clear.

This kind of thing happens throughout the trilogy. What does a hydrospanner do? No idea. I just know Han needed it to fix whatever he was fixing. What was the tube that Luke was sucked into when he jumped on Bespin? Don't know. I just know that when that door closed he was screwed.
This, this and this. I couldn't be more explicit.



Star Wars: In Concert - Lisbon - Some pictures of the exhibition accompanying the event.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:28 PM   #29
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You said you had already answered this argument before. I went back to check it, and the only answer I got was that it's all about speculation, and nothing is explained in the movie.
As I remember it, you talked about Kenobi being tired. I had addressed that earlier.

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You seem to forget that Theed has been invaded, and there was no security guards there to activate any lock mechanism.
...because an advanced civilization that can build forcefields and fighter planes simplified to the point that a ten year old can fly them hasn't figured out an automated lockdown when weapon discharge is detected. Right.

Quote:
Yet, the could very well make it arrive right in front of Yavin IV. However they haven't decided that while making the movie. There is no explanation for the trajectory to end right behind Yavin. It's a product of circumstances, just as the force fields are.
I'm not sure what you mean by the first part (except that it very obviously isn't an admission that you were wrong when you said there is no shot of the DS approaching Yavin), but the firce fields are not a product of circumstances. The length of the interval is completely arbitrary. First it's established to take a certain amount of time, which is perfectly fine. But then it's suddenly changed to a much shorter period for no reason other than the need to separate the combatants. Good stories are internally consistent and make sense. That's what makes them good stories. Bad stories, on the other hand, have random stuff happening because the author needs it to create drama.

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No. I'm talking about Ep. IV.
Oh, right. I was confused. Well that general did get shouted down pretty badly, so the others apparently weren't convinced the threat was serious. And again, it's very clear Tarkin, who is in command of the DS, refuses to acknowledge any danger even when it's pointed out to him in the middle of battle.

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Right. Because they have to save on fighters as much as they have to save on bolts. How conveninent.
Throwing out the random "how convenient" once in a while does not actually convey a point or make an argument, you know.

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"Watch the review. I'm not going to re-type all of the concepts Plinkett decides to ignore."
You do realize that makes no sense, right? If Plinkett ignores them, then watching the video will not inform me about what they are. Since they are, y'know, ignored and therefore not mentioned. So yeah, you will have to type them out if you want me to address them.

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Of course, if he insists, he must be right. I'll give the location of the main rebel base to the Empire, because some scoundrel says there is no tracking device on the ship.
Apparently, yeah. I did say the OT does have some problems, and this could reasonably be seen as one. Although I do maintain it's still explainable by Leia simply making a dumb move. Which is entirely in character for her, given that she manages to get herself captured and needs to be rescued in all three movies.

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How convenient...
I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a point? Because it certainly doesn't seem that way from here.

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Yes. Because what some consider flaws, others don't. And vice-versa.
Some flaws are objective, and storytelling does have certain rules to it.

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Because it's against the forum rules and there is a place to discuss things not related to the game.
Like I said, feel free to PM me with a reply if you don't want to carry it out here.

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Sorry, misunderstood the portion you were talking about. That being said, I still don't understand the problem. The shield barriers don't close at constant time intervals. Kenobi just got caught when the doors closed after a shorter period.
That is a possible explanation, but it's just so... arbitrary.

Quote:
But in fantasy worlds you just can't explain everything about everything. The important points were given. I think it was clear to the viewer that you couldn't just run through the fields just by the look of them, but they also added the part where Maul taps one with his saber, clearly indicating that these were "impenetrable".

The important point for the story was that the combatants were divided. It isn't really important what the fields are supposed to do, only what it is doing and how it comes into play in the story. Maybe they are for security, maybe some safety feature, or maybe they open to release gases or something. I don't see why it matters or why the film should take time to explain everything like that. The important points were clear.

This kind of thing happens throughout the trilogy. What does a hydrospanner do? No idea. I just know Han needed it to fix whatever he was fixing. What was the tube that Luke was sucked into when he jumped on Bespin? Don't know. I just know that when that door closed he was screwed.
That's not the same thing at all. Like I said in response to Alexrd, the difference is that the force field interval was established to take a certain amount of time. And then it was changed for no reason other than to create drama. The spanner and the tube are only used once in the story and then never appear again, and that's perfectly fine. But when you establish something, then you shouldn't change it without also providing at least some reason for why it's suddenly different.
You may think it's not really that important, but this moment is really where the whole story went pear shaped if you think about it. Jinn got killed because Kenobi didn't make it. Had he made it in time it would've been Jinn who trained Anakin, and he could've provided him with the wisdom and guidance that the inexperienced Kenobi, barely out of his padawan training, could not. Kenobi even acknowledges as much during their duel on Mustafar, accepting the fact that it was his fault, his failure as a teacher that caused Anakin to fall to the dark side. Given how pivotal this moment is within the story, I do think it deserved to be done right.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:10 PM   #30
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...it would've been Jinn who trained Anakin, and he could've provided him with the wisdom and guidance that the inexperienced Kenobi, barely out of his padawan training, could not. Kenobi even acknowledges as much during their duel on Mustafar, accepting the fact that it was his fault, his failure as a teacher that caused Anakin to fall to the dark side. Given how pivotal this moment is within the story, I do think it deserved to be done right.
Okay So first off I am going to say this whole Argument is ridiculous. Each of you are entitled to your own opinion, trying to prove the other wrong doesn't achieve much of anything. Sordid is allowed to find the movie Flawed, and Alexrd is allowed to oppose that thought. I myself find the movies brilliant works of cinema.

Now to the point, I believe Anakin fell to the darkside for three reasons.

One, he knew he was different from other Jedi, it was this Ego that caused him to believe he was unappreciated as the great Jedi he felt himself to be.

Two, Palpatine influenced Anakin in a tremendous way, encouraging him to do such things related to the Dark side. Such as Executing Dooku, Speaking of Former Sith Lords who could bring someone back from the beyond, and of course trying to portray the Jedi as the enemy. Little seeds of Dark Influence coming from a mastermind of manipulation. These things were no way related to Obiwan's teaching ability.

Three, even as the Council had said, Anakin was too old to be trained as A Jedi. Even if Jinn had trained him the outcome wouldn't have been much different. The Issues Anakin had came not from Obi-wan's Inexperience, in my opinion. (Which btw he was a Respected member of the Jedi Order. So if he was such a terrible Teacher Yoda wouldn't have appreciated his skills as much.)

I admit, that Qui-gon would have been a better teacher, but Anakin still would have become Darth Vader. One Difference though, Anakin would have Killed Qui-gon in the end of the third Movie, and Wouldn't be Adorned with his Lovely Black Metallic suit of Infamy.

This is my Opinion, I hope you respect it as I have respected both of yours.

OH! And Think of this, Of course Obi-wan blames himself for Anakin's turning. If A child is tainted by outside forces uncontrolled by his parents, there isn't much the parents can do. They can blame themselves but really it is only a matter of unfortunate circumstances.
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