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Old 01-06-2010, 01:56 AM   #41
Qui-Gon Glenn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverNight View Post
@Qui_Gon_Glenn: o rly?
Your post, and your link, provide nothing in the way of argument. Surely, you can do better. GDP is a nice economists measurement, but it is a macro measurement, and leaves out a lot of important details.

@Web Rider - thank you for understanding the logical operator AND in my sentence. I threw that in their to see who might bite, and either to my dismay or great joy, most everyone understood how that works.

Not much to add, I am quite gloomy these days, and I'd rather not share it too much.

For those that are interested, I can provide a link to the site my mother got her side of this story from. I will not put it in this post - it is a damned pay site, pay-per-divination! That deserves a thread all its own :facepalm:
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Old 01-07-2010, 02:43 AM   #42
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Just a question of context Qui_gon...

How long have these conversations between you and your mother been going on? And I'm being serious...so don't confuse this with sarcasm.



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Old 01-07-2010, 04:20 AM   #43
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My mother has been interested in the occult since, uh, forever I guess. We have been discussing Earth changes since probably the early nineties - we were ahead of the Y2K curve a fair amount

I have been in spiritual conflict with God and myself most of my life, and all of it that I can recollect fully. Life can do that to you sometimes, or maybe I was just born with a dim brain that is too deep. As a result, I am an agnostic leaning atheist, yet reserve some space for the possibility of a creator and an unknown. There is too much mystery for me, even in this age of science, to completely shut the door on the divine, albeit I have certainly shrugged off the major religion's conception of God as poorly thought out man-made mind-control. Well, I digress.

As for 2012 stuff, having known about the Mayans and their long count since the early 90s, I have looked at 2012 for quite some time, with great interest. Mostly because I hope to see something happen that is meaningful in my lifetime - I look at our modern society as pathetically shallow, full of sheep, with a few wicked shepherds, needing something major to either wake us up or deservingly wipe us out.

I look at the 2012 stuff from a purely scientific standpoint, which still leaves plenty of room for bad potentialities (of course, will the sun rise tomorrow?), but at least is grounded in things tangible to me, ie: the cosmic alignment. Being primarily atheistic in my views, my mother and I look at things from quite opposite perspectives, she being highly New Age sprititual, a believer in all sorts of outlandish things, from aliens to Indigo children to... the FORCE. (couldn't resist)

We make good counterparts - we look at the same problems, and see very different causes or justifications or elements. I think her POV provides me with good pause - some of the New Age stuff just sounds cool, and would be wonderful were it to be true. Also, a lot of it is written well, by intelligent people who can make strong arguments. Not perfect, but I don't see a lot of perfect arguments.

To answer your question, urluckyday, conversations of this sort have been happening since I first read the Lord of the Rings as a ten year old, way back in 82.
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Old 01-07-2010, 05:38 AM   #44
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^Well how long have you and your mother had discussions about the "dissolving of the US" because through the 90's the US was for the most part in the midst of a surplus? I'm just trying to understand when these thoughts and ideas originally occurred...



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Old 01-07-2010, 05:47 AM   #45
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Ok, sorry, misunderstood you. Specifically on this subject, we only spoke about it a day or two before the OP, then I found that goofy Russian's WSJ article. I guess we only spoke about it then, and only in that I found it highly interesting and unusual that a scientist, even if I am using that title broadly, came to nearly identical conclusions to the far-out crowd.

I have discussed Earth changes with mum for many years, and there are many maps to look at that show a dissolving US - google "Earth change map", there is abundance. Those maps were to be caused by natural phenomena alone, like quakes and volcanoes, yet are not wholly dissimilar to the maps that came out in the recent discussion.
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Old 01-07-2010, 06:00 AM   #46
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All I am saying is that is it possible that this paranoia that you seem to feel (if I'm wrong I'm not meaning to offend) is simply due to the news that we are exposed to everyday? War, Bad Economy, Corruption, etc.

Members of every generation since the beginning of time have thought they were the last to inhabit this Earth b/c the world would end before anyone else could. It's not uncommon to see people fearing the downfall of civilization when all they are fed throughout the day is bad news.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to have people predicting the dissolving of the US during the times of prosperity, but I do think it's much more likely that these conversations sprout due to the fact that people do not understand the changing world around them OR they are disillusioned by the news that they hear.

I'm not meaning to call anyone out or anything like that, but I am considering that people turn to what they know best in times of "chaos" and assume the worst and that is the US which has stood as a superpower and a global economic force to be reckoned with and assume that it will follow the same path that other nations had followed.

Throughout however many recessions we have had...people predict doom for this country. This is no different. Recession = stress = radical ideas and predictions.



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Old 01-07-2010, 06:15 AM   #47
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Not taking anything away from your post, and no offence taken either - you are quite civil.

Your points are fair, yet I would say at my age I am a little more immune to that kind of seeping paranoia - I have seen lots of ups and downs.

The topic was brought up due to the odd confluence of the discussion followed by the reading, which is an odd coincidence, even in this age of noids.

However, there are factors economically and socially that make 2010 interesting whether we blow up or not. And, I must share this, although you may know it, as I have posted it here several times...

The average life of a State is 300 years, State meaning single-form government. Corruption is insidious, and people can only take so much. Are US citizens ready for massive revolt? Uh, er, not anytime soon, too many mamzy pamzys. Yet, look what happened in New Orleans after Katrina. 9 days = civilization shredded.
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Old 01-07-2010, 07:35 AM   #48
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I have a high doubt this will happen. Look, just because i predict that The middle East with all throw aside their differences ( already an impossibility) and that they'll all join to destroy israel (no ones that good, not anymore), does not mean that will happen. If, the united states were to seperate, some outer country would have to have been involved. And what the russian guy said, I have a good feeling which one. Alaska would not go to russia. If any russian force even stepped on that land, we'd more than likely to one last join together to make sure russia goes back to the dark ages and doesn't even think about attacking america, mainland or not. And if i'm wrong, The alaskans are BA enough to hold their own land. Hawaii would more than likely got to japan though. Regrettably, they have to small a population to hold a big enough military force to take on japan. Besides, where'd they get their spam from if they're their own country. But, hey, if this happens (which it won't) you can come over and watch me eat my shoe. No lie, i'll post my address and when ya'll get here, I'll eat my shoe.


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Old 01-08-2010, 08:18 AM   #49
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Alright, I'll throw this out there, q_g_g: the Mayan calender only goes into a new cycle, it doesn't end in 2012 like many, many, many people have claimed. Also, this Russian guy seems like a crackpot if you want my honest opinion.

I'll just quote what I said earlier:

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Originally Posted by ForeverNight View Post
Unless this guy's name is Hari Seldon I think he's just blowing air and making waves hoping for his 15 minutes of fame.
Edit: Figured I should respond to glenn's points:

GDP, while not the end-all, be-all measurement, is a good benchmark to compare the general wealth and economic force of a country. If you look at the chart, the US has the highest GDP by far compared to the rest of the world.

Did you even read the second link?


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Old 01-09-2010, 02:49 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qui_gon_glenn View Post
Not taking anything away from your post, and no offence taken either - you are quite civil.

Your points are fair, yet I would say at my age I am a little more immune to that kind of seeping paranoia - I have seen lots of ups and downs.

The topic was brought up due to the odd confluence of the discussion followed by the reading, which is an odd coincidence, even in this age of noids.

However, there are factors economically and socially that make 2010 interesting whether we blow up or not. And, I must share this, although you may know it, as I have posted it here several times...

The average life of a State is 300 years, State meaning single-form government. Corruption is insidious, and people can only take so much. Are US citizens ready for massive revolt? Uh, er, not anytime soon, too many mamzy pamzys. Yet, look what happened in New Orleans after Katrina. 9 days = civilization shredded.
Well it's easy to see any kind of chaos when all forms of police units and law enforcement not to mention politics are washed away. Without water, electricity, or shelter there are obviously going to be problems. However, a country filled with corruption doesn't collapse to the point where people automatically go crazy and loot left and right.



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Old 01-09-2010, 07:42 AM   #51
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Well it's easy to see any kind of chaos when all forms of police units and law enforcement not to mention politics are washed away. Without water, electricity, or shelter there are obviously going to be problems. However, a country filled with corruption doesn't collapse to the point where people automatically go crazy and loot left and right.
Interesting thought... Lots of municipalities are un(der)funded to the point where some of the more basic needs are in danger. It is not impossible to believe that some areas may go without police service in the near future.

Course my mother has a feeling that this year is going to be very rough. Actually according to her, people are gonna be robbing people on the streets a lot more. She tends to be right in her predictions. Better than 80% accuracy. She believes that God is talking through her. When her predictions are wrong, though there's usually something very close about them.

Example of when she was "wrong":
She gave me some blue towels. She told me that God told her that I needed blue in my life. Well at the time I just said... "um... okay" well shortly after that an old friend of mine and my former guitarrist called me up and we started hangin out again. His nick name is Blue. When my father died, he and I started playin music again, and honestly that has been what kept me going for the past year. Sooo while the whole blue towels thing was technically wrong, the "Blue" thing was right.

So when she adamantly says that I need to get a handgun, I tend to think it might be a good idea.


"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson
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Old 01-09-2010, 10:10 AM   #52
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Well, maybe she's confused a handgun with a gun in hand (a larger semi-auto or somesuch). Kind of funny how things play out, though (Blue vs blue).


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

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Old 01-11-2010, 05:23 PM   #53
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Fact is that this guy is making a prediction on a event that is bound to occur one day at the rate our country is going, and just making a bold prediction for the year. While it is unlikely that anything close to that will happen in the coming year, I am a firm believer that unless our country takes a little more accountability for ourselves before we worry about fixing the rest of the world, that 10 to 20 years in the future our country will reach a point simular to that of the Roman Empire's end.

Only problem is that the Roman Empire lasted thousands of years, and the United States Empire will have made it a pathetic few centuries.

But this is just my thoughts...


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Old 01-11-2010, 10:28 PM   #54
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^Sorry. I can't support the isolationist view as a solution to our problems. As the world's only true superpower, it's our responsibility to be involved in the global community for better or for worse. No country can survive without being involved with the rest of society. This was proved after WWI.

I don't know what you mean by "accountability for ourselves," however.



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Old 01-12-2010, 12:39 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf View Post
Kind of funny how things play out, though (Blue vs blue).
Hell yeah, It would have blue me away if I had encountered such an coincidental thing.

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Originally Posted by thegame197676
Only problem is that the Roman Empire lasted thousands of years, and the United States Empire will have made it a pathetic few centuries.
Hi there,

This > ("United States Empire") This is not correct sir, we are not really an empire. Becuase we do not have and emporer that we serve, although we might have an emporer wanna-be right now for president (god forbid), we just have a president who we elect as a leader. And all the states that are in this country are "United", hence "The United States".

Anyway, I just wanted to point that out to you, thank you - carry on.

Oh! And btw, welcome to the LF thegame197676


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Old 01-12-2010, 07:50 AM   #56
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Someone mind telling me why the US is destined to go to hell?
Preferably without references to religious apocalypses.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:58 AM   #57
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Someone mind telling me why the US is destined to go to hell?
Preferably without references to religious apocalypses.
But, but, but, Murph, in the Bible it specifically states "And in the year 2010, the Great Nation of America, blessed by God, will be led to it's utter destruction by the Anti-Christ... Barack Obama". Have you not read that part of the Bible?



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Old 01-12-2010, 12:06 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by purifier View Post
.
Hi there,

This > ("United States Empire") This is not correct sir, we are not really an empire. Becuase we do not have and emporer that we serve, although we might have an emporer wanna-be right now for president (god forbid), we just have a president who we elect as a leader. And all the states that are in this country are "United", hence "The United States".

Anyway, I just wanted to point that out to you, thank you - carry on.

Oh! And btw, welcome to the LF thegame197676
Thank you for welcoming me

To reply the united states empire was more a turn of phrase then actualy calling us a literal Empire. The turn of phrase being as you said... Wanna be emporer for a president.


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Old 01-12-2010, 04:38 PM   #59
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But, but, but, Murph, in the Bible it specifically states "And in the year 2010, the Great Nation of America, blessed by God, will be led to it's utter destruction by the Anti-Christ... Barack Obama". Have you not read that part of the Bible?
Hey, hey, hey.....! I think that must have been in one of those banned book versions (like Lilith or the Gnostic Gospels, etc....).


@Murph......well, given that hell is a religious reference of sorts......you ask the impossible. Serioiusly, though, depends on what one means by hell. If it's just a metaphor for falling fast and hard from a postion of prominence, then it's not inevitable. Perhaps just a slow but certain decline before diappearing into obscurity (often the fate of many an "empire") or the mists of time (or whatever metaphor you'd like).


Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.---Patton

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Last edited by Totenkopf; 01-12-2010 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:30 PM   #60
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^Sorry. I can't support the isolationist view as a solution to our problems. As the world's only true superpower, it's our responsibility to be involved in the global community for better or for worse. No country can survive without being involved with the rest of society. This was proved after WWI.

I don't know what you mean by "accountability for ourselves," however.
Definatly not an isolationist view I am making, I am big on our government keeping strong good relations with the rest of the world. I am however not big on our government shelling out a trillion dollars for Iraq (which I served a year at in the military) for a conflict that our government had to lie about to get into, when our country is in massive debt as it is.

It is this kind of mismanagement and waste of finiances and other resources that I base my opinion on.


"It's a Trap! Send the thief first.."
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:15 PM   #61
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^^^So then what are you saying specifically about self accountability? You still didn't answer his question, which I now echo.

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^Sorry. I can't support the isolationist view as a solution to our problems.
Well, fine, but how much more can we afford to ship overseas in terms of jobs? We've already given up technical and manufacturing, and service category is well on the way--if it won't be given to machines first. The uneven economic playfield allows corporations (regardless of public or private) to foothold their positions over smaller businesses and effectively lock them out of competition. Rather than people who are self reliant, independent, and sustaining, we may soon have public corporations to which we are all dependent upon.

Quote:
As the world's only true superpower, it's our responsibility to be involved in the global community for better or for worse. No country can survive without being involved with the rest of society. This was proved after WWI.
OK I do agree there about the involvement aspect, but I would cut this off when outsourcing begins to wreak havoc, but of course nobody cared about consequences of that for the past 16 years.

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Someone mind telling me why the US is destined to go to hell?
Preferably without references to religious apocalypses.
The writer of the article is having a fit that Alaska is still a part of America in 2009 going into 2010--so he set up projections on his computerized simulations to "prove" this will happen. Personally I think his obsession with USA falling is masking his fit he's having over Alaska not yet being part of Russia once again.

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But, but, but, Murph, in the Bible it specifically states "And in the year 2010, the Great Nation of America, blessed by God, will be led to it's utter destruction by the Anti-Christ... Barack Obama". Have you not read that part of the Bible?
Pictures of the text or it never happened.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:38 AM   #62
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@forum in general - Many here are assuming that I believe that "anything" is going to happen in the future. I have no crystal ball, and as Starkiller says, "never been a Jedi before." Do not confuse the topic with the poster.

@thegame - The roman "empire" was not one long single form government. Review history and respond if you wish.

@ForeverNight: I am not proposing that the US will dissolve, or the world will crack in two, in 2012 or necessarily anytime. Again, this is a discussion of a coincidence, and the facts are simply that some people think certain things, and some people discuss such-and-such. I did follow the first link, and no, I did not follow the second - I was underwhelmed by the argument presented by GDP statistics. That 1% has a lot of cash.

@murph - I know nothing about destiny, and I don't believe in hell. I simply live now and remember when, and as I old as I feel saying it (and dotardly) - it is all going to hell
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:00 AM   #63
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My mother is quite heavy into new age mysticism and such, and has heard from several "ascended masters" as well as several seers and mediums, that in 2010 the US economy will disolve
So Glenn, you talk to your mom lately?


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Old 01-08-2011, 05:25 AM   #64
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Why yes... I talked to mum yesterday, trying to Nuke her PC (she has installed maybe 5 anti-virus softwares, simultaneously, and wonders why her pc is slow ).

She is well, for a woman who has worked her entire life, served her Government, and is at retirement age - yet will never be able to retire, as she netted $7500 from the $22000 gross that she earned in 2010. Tough time to move your service (CMT) business and start over... she is perservering.

As to her opinions about the USA not dissolving in 2010 - the same as the opinion she holds about the ET contact we were "prophesied" to receive several different times over the last 15 years, or the same opinions she holds about God, archangels, Divine Consciousness etc... all things that to me are creative writing projects, she holds them as truth "unfolding".

Her feeling is that things are happening... I think her crystal ball sucks.

Nevertheless, the conversation was lively, maybe the only topic I have made that actually went somewhere, even if it was mostly at the expense of Mommaroo.

I will ask her about it though.... honestly sabretooth, I had forgotten this topic!


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Old 01-08-2011, 09:55 PM   #65
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So Glenn, you talk to your mom lately?
lol did you set a reminder on your phone to come back to this thread after 2010 was over?



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Old 01-08-2011, 10:07 PM   #66
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Haha no, I was looking about Kavar's, read through this thread and thought I'd ping it back again to show everyone the world didn't end in 2010!

or did it?


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Old 01-08-2011, 11:36 PM   #67
urluckyday
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Haha no, I was looking about Kavar's, read through this thread and thought I'd ping it back again to show everyone the world didn't end in 2010!

or did it?
Are we all just talking to each other on LF in heaven right now?



If I die today, I'm happy how my life turned out
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:53 PM   #68
Sabretooth
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We could be splinters of our own collective imaginations interacting in that one split second during the destruction of the world, or my solipsist musings may have turned out to be true and the life-after-death is in fact, a seamless continuation of life-before-death.

BRB, overdosing on DMT


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Old 01-09-2011, 01:01 AM   #69
Darth Avlectus
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So Glenn, you talk to your mom lately?
Wotsdis about mothers now?


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:54 AM   #70
Jae Onasi
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Wotsdis about mothers now?
You rang?


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

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Old 01-09-2011, 04:47 PM   #71
Qui-Gon Glenn
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We could be splinters of our own collective imaginations interacting in that one split second during the destruction of the world, or my solipsist musings may have turned out to be true and the life-after-death is in fact, a seamless continuation of life-before-death.
Yes, time is abstract, a construct, and therefore not real. Yet I still want a danish.
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BRB, overdosing on DMT
We all live in a yel..... I have a friend who is training with a Peruvian shaman, if you need guidance


Want to play a game of ME3MP?
Qui-Gon_Glenn on the software of which we shall not name.... add me and the enemy shall fall in chunks of crimson salsa
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:49 PM   #72
Darth Avlectus
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You rang?
I'm not Dath Maximus, but talk of mothers gets me very interested all the same.


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:40 PM   #73
urluckyday
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You rang?
C'mon there aren't any girls on the internet, we all know that by now!



If I die today, I'm happy how my life turned out
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