lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Yoda and Obi Wan
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 01-12-2011, 01:05 PM   #1
thelazygent
Rookie
 
thelazygent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 27
Yoda and Obi Wan

Why didn't they join the rebel alliance during the dark times era/TFU time?

It is my understanding that Yoda went into exile because he couldn't destroy the emperor. He then went into exile on Dagobah. Then he encounters Starkiller. Yoda must realize that he is a very powerfull force sensitive and that he is not of the Sith ( I think it was pretty apparent that Starkiller was a not a Sith, because of his mellow nature in the cutscene). Why wouldn't he have said something? Has Yoda lost all hope in the Jedi or destroying the Sith? Surely Yoda and Starkiller could have destroyed the Emperor and Vader. He could have atleast tried to destroy them. Yoda then is reluctant to train Luke. Did Yoda not care about the future of the Jedi or destroying the Sith. He lets an extremely powerful force sensitive go without figuring out anything about him and he is reluctant to train the offspring of the person with the highest minichlorian count ever. What is Yoda doing?

Obi Wan goes into exile because he will watch over Luke. I don't understand why he didn't train Luke when he was young. If Luke was trained young, he could have easily destroyed the emperor and Vader. I have heard that the emperor would feel a new force user, but then why couldn't the emperor sense Obi Wan was where he was? Obi Wan definitely knew of the Rebel Alliance, because there were alot of people of Tattoine that were a part of it. Why didn't he join? Its almost as if he didn't care about the future of the Jedi or destruction of the Sith? Why didn't he want to destroy the sith?

Imagine if Kota, Starkiller, Obi Wan, and Yoda were part of the rebel alliance? Game over Emperor
thelazygent is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 01:24 PM   #2
Qui-Gon Glenn
Necessary Roughneck
 
Qui-Gon Glenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Thessia
Posts: 1,465
Current Game: ME3MP, Arkham Origins
Folder extraordinaire Helpful! Forum Veteran Veteran Modder 
"Long have I watched this one... Never his mind on where he was, what he was doing"
That is not exact, but that is Yoda talking about Luke on "meeting" him in ESB.

This is all speculatory, but seems sensible (oh god, don't tell GL)...

Luke was not trained early because he would have created a disturbance in the force perceptible by Palps and Vader at the point where he became a Padawan, and he would not have been nearly strong enough for the confrontation, despite the superior Jedi training he would have received - a kid is a kid, and a kid can't hang with the DLOTS. Obi and Yoda needed Luke to have some physical maturity, and perhaps be grounded a little more in the mundane, so that learning the ways of the Force would be done through a more mature (if still totally whiny, weak, weasily) way.

Yoda knew, from his 1 on 1 with Palps, that his days as the Force Master were behind him - that he could not beat Palps alone anymore. Obviously then, neither could Kenobi. So, they both went into hiding, waiting for Luke and Leia; trying to live long enough to pass on to them what they had learned and give the new generation a fighting chance.

This isn't really a revelation, is it? It is, I think, pretty much what the movies have told us.

I think you underestimate the power of Palpatine, and the power of Luke. (the latter I understand easier )


Want to play a game of ME3MP?
Qui-Gon_Glenn on the software of which we shall not name.... add me and the enemy shall fall in chunks of crimson salsa
Qui-Gon Glenn is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 01:42 PM   #3
Mandalorian Mercenary
Rookie
 
Mandalorian Mercenary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lusby, MD
Posts: 226
I think the only reason that Palpatine won in Episode III was because he HAD to win, or else he wouldn't have been Emperor in 4 5 and 6. And I find it amusing how Palpatine crushed Yoda, but Darth Vader picks him up and throws him down the Death Star shaft and he dies




"If at first you don't succeed, hire a mercenary to do the job for you. At least they'll get it done right."
Mandalorian Mercenary is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 02:15 PM   #4
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Yeah, I think the existence of the OT is pretty much the most important reason for all of this, including the incredibly stupid decision by Kenobi and Yoda to split up at the end of Ep3.

"Oh gee, two of us there are, and one of him. Incredibly powerful Sith Lord he is. Now that we know his new apprentice is away and interfere he cannot, we should split up and only one of us should fight him."
"Wait, master Yoda, don't you mean we should gang up on him and then once he's mincemeat hunt down his apprentice at our leisure?"
"Up, shut! I here the Jedi master am. Far lousier than yours my grammar is, which wisdom mine shows. Now as you are told go do, and perfectly fine this all will turn out."
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 02:40 PM   #5
Qui-Gon Glenn
Necessary Roughneck
 
Qui-Gon Glenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Thessia
Posts: 1,465
Current Game: ME3MP, Arkham Origins
Folder extraordinaire Helpful! Forum Veteran Veteran Modder 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
"Up, shut! I here the Jedi master am. Far lousier than yours my grammar is, which wisdom mine shows. Now as you are told go do, and perfectly fine this all will turn out."
ROTFL

Edit: That is some quotable stuff right there... nice!!


Want to play a game of ME3MP?
Qui-Gon_Glenn on the software of which we shall not name.... add me and the enemy shall fall in chunks of crimson salsa
Qui-Gon Glenn is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 02:58 PM   #6
Klw
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 100
I think the simple answer for nearly every question on here is: They're all really, really old (the emperor included) and can't do much of anything anymore.

As for why Obi-Wan didn't train Luke: Kind of like what Glenn said, but more along the lines of the fact that Obi-Wan would have to come out of hiding to meet Luke and would end up showing his face to people living in imperial-controlled lands, even if it's just moisture farmers. Even if a handful of people saw his face, the Empire's chances of locating his hideout would go up dramatically. If this happened while Luke was a child it would be game over.
Klw is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 03:13 PM   #7
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
Yeah, I think the existence of the OT is pretty much the most important reason for all of this, including the incredibly stupid decision by Kenobi and Yoda to split up at the end of Ep3.
What else did you think was going to happen? That seemed like the only possible outcome. The original Trilogy--particularly Episodes V and VI--kind of solidified this.

It was there from the start.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 03:14 PM   #8
thelazygent
Rookie
 
thelazygent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Glenn View Post
"
Obi and Yoda needed Luke to have some physical maturity, and perhaps be grounded a little more in the mundane, so that learning the ways of the Force would be done through a more mature (if still totally whiny, weak, weasily) way.
Then why did Yoda say ""No. He is too old. Too old to begin the training"


Quote:
Yoda knew, from his 1 on 1 with Palps, that his days as the Force Master were behind him - that he could not beat Palps alone anymore. Obviously then, neither could Kenobi.

In the ROTS DVD, Lucas states that the two battles at the end of the movie are battles of equals in terms of force ability. He says that Obi Wan and Anakin are equal and that Palp and Yoda are equal. Im not trying to be an ******* to you, but there seems to be alot of contradiction in Star Wars.

Quote:
So, they both went into hiding, waiting for Luke and Leia; trying to live long enough to pass on to them what they had learned and give the new generation a fighting chance.
Then why would Yoda just let StarKiller go? He was certainly lead a new generation to a fighting chance
thelazygent is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-12-2011, 06:34 PM   #9
Qui-Gon Glenn
Necessary Roughneck
 
Qui-Gon Glenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Thessia
Posts: 1,465
Current Game: ME3MP, Arkham Origins
Folder extraordinaire Helpful! Forum Veteran Veteran Modder 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelazygent View Post
Then why did Yoda say ""No. He is too old. Too old to begin the training"
Standard Jedi line for anyone coming into the Order that the Order did not bring in themselves... see TPM and Anakin. Unless you're a toddler, you are too old in Yoda's book. He is a little grumpy, after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelazygent View Post
In the ROTS DVD, Lucas states that the two battles at the end of the movie are battles of equals in terms of force ability. He says that Obi Wan and Anakin are equal and that Palp and Yoda are equal. Im not trying to be an ******* to you, but there seems to be alot of contradiction in Star Wars.
I'm OK if you're OK.

I watched the movies, and ignored what GL said. In the movies, Palps won a tough battle decisively, mostly on strategy (higher ground). Hold that battle in a confined arena, I might give the edge to Yoda, slightly. Bottom line, fights aren't fair, Palps won. Obi Wan was only equal to Anakin, at that time, in the sense that Obi Wan was at full mastery of his (normal) powers, while Anakin was coming into his own (extraordinary) powers, yet was not fully in dem britches yet. Place that battle a year further in the future, Kenobi has no chance. The timing was right for that battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelazygent View Post
Then why would Yoda just let StarKiller go? He was certainly lead a new generation to a fighting chance
Starkiller didn't go to Yoda for training... he didn't go to Yoda at all, he went to Dagobah. Yoda sensed him, had sensed him, and saw what he saw.... I don't presume to know the wisdom of an inestimable and totally imaginary mind, but I trust that Yoda knew what was going on.... Yoda always knows what is going on, like Artoo, and chose to let Starkiller follow his vision in the cave. Presumably to lead a new generation to a fighting chance.... sound familiar?


Want to play a game of ME3MP?
Qui-Gon_Glenn on the software of which we shall not name.... add me and the enemy shall fall in chunks of crimson salsa
Qui-Gon Glenn is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-13-2011, 12:06 AM   #10
TKA-001
I sneer at thee.
 
TKA-001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,535
Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Obi Wan goes into exile because he will watch over Luke. I don't understand why he didn't train Luke when he was young. If Luke was trained young, he could have easily destroyed the emperor and Vader. I have heard that the emperor would feel a new force user, but then why couldn't the emperor sense Obi Wan was where he was? Obi Wan definitely knew of the Rebel Alliance, because there were alot of people of Tattoine that were a part of it.
I figure that one of the main reasons Obi-Wan didn't train Luke from the get-go was that Owen and Beru didn't want the kid to grow up as a Jedi and get killed on some ridiculous adventure.


"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
TKA-001 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-13-2011, 04:23 AM   #11
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
What else did you think was going to happen? That seemed like the only possible outcome. The original Trilogy--particularly Episodes V and VI--kind of solidified this.

It was there from the start.
Well sure Palps was going to win in the end, but it just irks me that he won because Yoda and Kenobi are literally too stupid to grasp that 2 > 1. I guess the fault lies ultimately with Lucas, who wrote it that way so that he could cut back and forth between two action packed lightsaber duels. Making sense was apparently secondary.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-13-2011, 07:56 PM   #12
MajinMikeyX
Rookie
 
MajinMikeyX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 247
Current Game: Halo Reach, BFBC2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
Well sure Palps was going to win in the end, but it just irks me that he won because Yoda and Kenobi are literally too stupid to grasp that 2 > 1. I guess the fault lies ultimately with Lucas, who wrote it that way so that he could cut back and forth between two action packed lightsaber duels. Making sense was apparently secondary.
Mostly it is true that 2 > 1, but just look at Darth Maul. He was able to take on both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon relatively well. This is Palpatine, and while he and Yoda may have been equals, he would be much too overwhelming for Obi-Wan, even with Yoda there, and might even get in Yoda's way.

Besides, if Obi-Wan stayed to help out Yoda, Anakin would never have been burnt to a crisp and have his legs and an arm cut off by Obi-Wan, and we wouldn't have Vader.


"All too easy."
MajinMikeyX is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-13-2011, 10:34 PM   #13
Zerimar Nyliram
Senior Member
 
Zerimar Nyliram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Posts: 1,449
Forum Veteran 
Well, he would still have technically been Vader, and he already was Vader at that point. But I get what you're saying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
Zerimar Nyliram is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-14-2011, 10:28 AM   #14
Sordid Dreams
Rookie
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinMikeyX View Post
Mostly it is true that 2 > 1, but just look at Darth Maul. He was able to take on both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon relatively well.
No he wasn't. He was only able to gain the upper hand once he managed to separate them. Up until that point he was constantly on the defensive.
Sordid Dreams is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-17-2011, 10:35 AM   #15
Zwier Zak
Junior Member
 
Zwier Zak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Poland
Posts: 254
Everything made perfect sense before the prequels came along.
Zwier Zak is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-16-2011, 02:21 PM   #16
JonChaos6
Rookie
 
JonChaos6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 15
Im getting my ten cents in this one. Yoda and Obi both needed to wait for the perfect time to train Luke and Leia but the events from Eps 4 prevented Obi wan when he allowed himself to die to help luke and the others escape. so it fell on yoda to pick up where Obi Wan left off. but we all know where the events went after that. but yea i have to admit Yoda knew who Starkiller was but never did anything about it allowed him into the cave with no effort on a fight or anything. Also from what ive gather Sith can mislead people to beleiving they are something when they are not. Starkiller from the game was not a clone if everyone has forgotten from the events of the first game when Vader stabed Starkiller in the back and then came back on a meddical bed because of vader brought him back from the dead then. Unless you do the Dark Side ending in Force Unleashed 2 you would still think Starkiller was a clone but he really wasnt he could of been thrown to the brink of death at the end of Force Unleashed 1 but that is the Question everyone is wondering, i have gathered this much from putting things together.


Stormtroopers fear me!!!!
JonChaos6 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 03-17-2011, 08:49 PM   #17
mstr kenobi
Rookie
 
mstr kenobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajinMikeyX View Post
Besides, if Obi-Wan stayed to help out Yoda, Anakin would never have been burnt to a crisp and have his legs and an arm cut off by Obi-Wan, and we wouldn't have Vader.
That's the problem with the prequels honestly, Obi-Wan has to go there not because it's the decision that makes most sense, (Anakin was a pawn, if they kill Sidious and what he's gonna do? he's got nothing at this point) but because they were running out of time and needed to tie things together.

Maybe, if they made Obi-Wan say "I have to talk to him, i can still save him" or something to that effect it would make more sense for Obi-Wan to go after him.

If they had gone for that, i would have to cut the killing children thing, that's definetely too much to accept.
mstr kenobi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-23-2013, 08:14 PM   #18
MASTER RAVE
Lurker
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: CANADA
Posts: 2
Current Game: mass effect 3
i have to get this off my chest...i see this argument time&time again.for the people that seem for what reason i have no idea to think that yoda lost to sidious is ridicules!yoda walked into the senate room talks some smack to sidious gets took by surprise with a blast of force lighting,recovers plays a little posum gets up bam!! force push sidious looen like the fool gets throw across the room looks at yoda wow didnt see or think you had that kind of blast behind that force push,says to himself to hell with this no time got go.yoda oh hh no you don't blocks his path,then lightsabers are brought to bare they look to be the equal of one another,if not yoda being the aggressor and pushing sidious into the diffusive.at some point we never get to see yoda disarm sidious maybe we will in the animated clone wars last seasonfrom there the high ground is now sidious major advantage but even so yoda manages to elude&climb his way back up before stoping a pod and sending it back at sidious.you can just read sidious face,wow this guy is becoming a real pain in my ass.....yoda force jumps the remaining distance to the last senate pod with lightsaber at the ready or so he thought..if theres one thing sidious does have over yoda its that insane dark side lighting with power 2nd to none!!yoda ever the wiseman just absorbs it, with much effort i most say but no the less again baffles sidious push it back at him like here this is yours better luck next time palps... BAM the explosion forces them both apart and the only reason palps stays on is because hes inside the pod yoda the outside.how is this an ass kicking?draw
MASTER RAVE is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 01-28-2013, 10:45 AM   #19
Xavier1985
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 67
Kenobi's mission was to look over luke.. yoda ent into self ecile on dagobah to hide from the emperor and vader using the planets natural build up of dark side energy as yoda as the most poerful jedi left in existance, he hid so the sith would not get him.. no if these two decided to join in, it would be in direct contradiction as to why they were where they were to begin with.
Xavier1985 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Force Unleashed > General > The Force Unleashed 2 > Yoda and Obi Wan

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:02 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.