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Old 10-02-2011, 10:25 PM   #1
Lordjedi
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Revan: The Novel Spoilers (Oh god...)

Basically there was this guy on another forum who had got a copy of Revan by Drew Karpyshyn early, and he pretty much wrote most of the plot in his post, of course naturally, people didn't believe him so he posted pictures of the book and pages, it looks legit. However, too be honest, the book seems terrible, this is how the guy summarized the book.
Show spoiler


Oh no....

Link for original post http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=202146

EDIT: In a blog post by Drew Karpyshyn on Sept 30, he mentions he knows that this person from the spacebattles forum had got the book early, and he mentioned how people started emailing him about the book, it's a good read. Here's the link.
http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=302#more-302

Last edited by Lordjedi; 10-10-2011 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:54 AM   #2
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*sigh* I read the spoiler so I wouldn't have to read the book. In my opinion, this is the ultimate form of "urinating on your own art". Rubbish, all of it. First of all, Revan and the Exile, when you get right down to it, are PLAYER CHARACTER AVATARS. That means each of these personages are created by each and every person who plays the KOTOR games. Why do we need to have a "canon" Revan (male) and a "canon" Exile (female)? Basically, what this so-called "novel" does is thumb its nose at the KOTOR storylines, and fans' creativity.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:20 AM   #3
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What creativity?

Further, if I may quote the only sane man from page three of that thread (for I find it an appropriate response to the average reaction):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Asendant
And this is exactly the sort of pointless, adolescent fanwanking that gets me giddy just thinking of Revan being electrocuted to death. Because 'Revan' isn't a defined character with faults that can be examined. 'Revan' is just a bunch of people roleplaying how they're the most awesome people in the universe and sharing their ego trips to others on the internet. Especially annoying when the ordinary chest thumping is not enough anymore and certain people start getting philosophical, thinking they're all deep and profound and ****.
In summary: Yes, sure looks awful, but so did Crosscurrent (a Star Wars book with time travel in it), and it turned out to be great. I'll probably end up getting it to see for myself. And even if it is horrendous, just because it is horrendous does not mean that there is a single solitary thing in it that is too awful for a fan to actually put in a fanfic; they only despise it because it isn't their idea. And yes, I'm totally sure that the book is just as awful as this guy says it is. He's obviously not butthurt over anything.


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Last edited by TKA-001; 10-03-2011 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 08:28 AM   #4
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Oh, look. It sucks.

I'm shocked.


EDIT: I seem to remember predicting years ago that KotOR2 would be retconned out of existence.


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Old 10-03-2011, 01:17 PM   #5
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Im going to go out on a limb and say that this is either a very simplified early version or not the real plot.

Sorry for the spelling or writing,....using cell to post this.

There are some items mentioned while others left out that causes me to doubt the source...

Number one is that the person does not show how this book connect to existing information known about Revan or hk-47.

Swtor's reveal on Revan show that the Sith will now know what he was hiding in his base ... which if Revan is drugged or in a cryo in large points in the book... How did this base come about? When did he build it ?

There is also mention in the Revan reveal that the Sith seem to talking as if Revan is either dead or unknown where he is now. If he was in cryo... Why talk about him in such manner.

Then comes the mask being shown on an alter. If Revan was in cryo... He would be wearing the mask... How would it get there.

The poster never talks about HK 47 who everyone loves... When we know hk is at This secret Revan base.

I would like the poster to actually post more informative details since it comes off as the poster hates the book and never connects it to what is known from swtor info.

I wish people would not take posts like this persons at face value. There is no proof he has the book. The one image I can see shows no content just a title page which can easily be created in photoshop.

Logan


Last edited by logan23; 10-03-2011 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:52 PM   #6
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You guys know that the name Darth Scourge makes this obviously fake, right?


Let's kill ourselves.
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Old 10-03-2011, 02:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucination View Post
You guys know that the name Darth Scourge makes this obviously fake, right?
plus its like "Mine favrit part ist wen we doesn't even afrade!"
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucination View Post
You guys know that the name Darth Scourge makes this obviously fake, right?
I would have thought so, but strangely one of the "True Sith" Jedi Knight companions in The Old Republic is named Darth Scourge. I think it may tie it with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logan23 View Post
I wish people would not take posts like this persons at face value. There is no proof he has the book. The one image I can see shows no content just a title page which can easily be created in photoshop.
In the thread link the guy showed pictures of page of the Exile's death.

Last edited by Lordjedi; 10-10-2011 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:36 PM   #9
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to lordjedi, where is your link that states that Darth Scourge is a Jedi knight companion?
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by DeathScepter View Post
to lordjedi, where is your link that states that Darth Scourge is a Jedi knight companion?
http://www.theoldrepublicordie.com/2...mpanion-guide/

http://www.hotrodacc.com/swtor/comp.html

Just a few links.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Q View Post
Oh, look. It sucks.

I'm shocked.


EDIT: I seem to remember predicting years ago that KotOR2 would be retconned out of existence.
+1 What a waste of good material.
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:56 PM   #12
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Something I found interesting from the passage:

"Anyway, they go face the Emperor where the three of them go face to face, until Scourge gets a vision of a different Jedi facing the Emperor. Figuring this must be the red skinned bastard's eventual killer, he stabs Meetra in the back with his lightsaber and the Emperor electrocutes Revan into submission."

Considering Scourge is a companion for the Knight in TOR, it is possible that the different Jedi he sees facing the Emperor, is you, your character and other Jedi players in TOR, and like in WoW how the Lich King was a raid boss, the Sith Emperor will eventually be one?
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Old 10-04-2011, 03:56 AM   #13
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Sounds ****, they should of just left Revan and the Exile alone... Though I think K2 is the far more interesting story, as it's not a strict light dark dichotomy and retconning it away is only something a complete fool would do. I do agree with TK about Revan being totally blown up by fans own ego's but meh, I think Star Wars needs to remember part of the Original Triologies mystique was not spelling everything out... In this case leaving what happened to Revan and the Exile would of worked a lot better.



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Last edited by jonathan7; 10-06-2011 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Clariffied point and Corrected grammar.... >.> -- j7
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:10 AM   #14
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So... does it look too bad to be legit? Can I read it, the spoilers I mean?


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Old 10-04-2011, 09:52 AM   #15
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Rubbish, ****, or not, I'd much rather wait and read the book myself than base my view on someone else's negative opinion of the book.

The fact that this is just one person's summary makes it worse, especially as they've already decided that it sucks.






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Old 10-04-2011, 09:56 AM   #16
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I'm more disturbed by how horrible the prose is in the excerpts than any retcon that might be made by the book.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
Sounds ****, they should of just left Revan and the Exile alone... Though I think K2 is the far more interesting story at retconning it is only something a complete fool would do. I do agree with TK about Revan being totally blown up by fans own ego's but meh, I think Star Wars needs to remember part of the Original Triologies mystique was not spelling everything out... In this case leaving what happened to Revan and the Exile would of worked a lot better.
mystique is always good. And Leaving Revan and Jedi Exile alone is the best thing.
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Old 10-04-2011, 12:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Rubbish, ****, or not, I'd much rather wait and read the book myself than base my view on someone else's negative opinion of the book.

The fact that this is just one person's summary makes it worse, especially as they've already decided that it sucks.
Oh I was basing my opinion off the photo-copied pages... I had ignored the fan abbreviated version and read the few photo's...



"Love is the only reality and it is not a mere sentiment. It is the ultimate truth that lies at the heart of creation." - Rabindranath Tagore

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth." - Kahlil Gibran
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del View Post
So... does it look too bad to be legit? Can I read it, the spoilers I mean?
If it is legit, which I think it is, considering he posted pictures of a certain major event in the book, it seems terrible.
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:50 PM   #20
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The other question is this the final version or an early version sent to an editor.

This hints that this is legit at some level but also the reviewer gives a very poor review mainly says this stinks which even if he has the final version .... The review he presents is poor when reviewing a work of literature.

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Old 10-04-2011, 10:07 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by logan23 View Post
The other question is this the final version or an early version sent to an editor.

This hints that this is legit at some level but also the reviewer gives a very poor review mainly says this stinks which even if he has the final version .... The review he presents is poor when reviewing a work of literature.
He said it was an uncorrected proof.
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Old 10-04-2011, 10:33 PM   #22
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I'm not familiar with publishing practices, but is it normal to have an uncorrected proof bound? And if it is uncorrected, how did he get a copy (I just assumed it was an advance copy to a reviewer/whoever that got leaked)?


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Old 10-05-2011, 06:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucination View Post
I'm not familiar with publishing practices, but is it normal to have an uncorrected proof bound? And if it is uncorrected, how did he get a copy (I just assumed it was an advance copy to a reviewer/whoever that got leaked)?
There are different version around yeah...if you look at theforce.net, there are some people who read books 2-3 months before they are officially released. Seems strange though...I would've thought non-disclosure agreements would be the standard in this industry.

OT: Strange story. Why drag another Sith Lord in? Exile and Revan should have been enough. And the Exile isn't a powerful Jedi...she just leached the energy from the Lost Ones around her, becoming a superhero Jedi. And the Lost Ones didn't go with her to the Unknown Regions so it's only logical she only has her 'standard' powers left.

It does feel a bit...bad to have Revan and the Exile in stasis. This means they can be dragged out of storage room for an appearance TOR. They should've killed Revan of or had him kill the Emperor, leaving a big question mark for TOR to fill.

I do feel we need to get the cane out of the cupboard and give that Emperor a darn good spanking for hurting our beloved Revan.

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Old 10-05-2011, 07:35 AM   #24
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Well ****. Saw the part of the emperor "dead at another jedi's feet" so I guess now we know for sure which is the canon ending.
Then again, spoilerific thread, oh noes!

Though for the record my attitude on this game just went back down slightly into "BULL ****!"

To be brutally honest, it's Drew Karpyshyn's character and he is at full creative liberty to do with it as he wishes. I don't agree with it, but whatever. I'm not so attached either. I'd probably be the same were I in his place, though I'd try to be a little more respectful of preexisting canon (but who cares right?).

Paraphrase: "We can't keep up with every little piece and detail of canon because SW EU canon is massive--but we tried pretty hard."

[HK-47]Mocking Translation: Oh I "fixed" what I didn't like about previously established SW canon, and if you give me the benefit of a reasonable doubt, you'll believe that I genuinely tried my best not to **** it up. I was just a little more modest about it this time so I could get away with it. Heheheh Dumb@$$es.
[/HK-47]

Hint: Form VII Juyo Vaapad 1,000 years before Mace Windu invented it, anyone? (Nice Try, Donkey Kong!)

EDIT: I tease of course, because the source of the leak is blowing things WAAAY out of proportion based on that which Drew Karpyshyn didn't pay any attention to, like little details (detracting from the point of the story). I'm sorry but you CANNOT make a judgment based off assumptions made from a LACK of evidence unless it is obviously conspicuous. Example: Since KOTOR 2 was not well known to the rest of the Galaxy, it is unlikely the little details about the members of the sith triumvirate would be common knowledge. Even if the rebuilt jedi order knew some of it, they collectively could not have pieced it back together to give a 100% recitation on EVERYTHING.[/EDIT]

BTW has anyone read the bio about Darth Jadus?
Show spoiler


Also if that force ghost on the Taral V Developer walkthrough is indeed that of the Exile as some youtuber suggested to me...then the only face and hair I can come anywhere even near matching that with of the female player faces in K2 is the bushy blonde used for that one jedi woman in the malak recruit vision in Kressh's tomb:
Show spoiler
which retcons that she had brown hair. And even this doesn't mesh. This is all speculative of course. The only things I have supporting this are this new tidbit, the images, and perhaps that the force ghost would choose to befriend Master Oteg of all Jedi, who would remind her of Master Vandar.

@J7 I agree. I, too, wish they would have left them alone. Sort of. Retconning K2 is a fool's move and that Revan has been blown out of proportion by fans.
Side note: I suppose now we'll never know about Arren Kae.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordjedi View Post
I would have thought so, but strangely one of the "True Sith" Jedi Knight companions in The Old Republic is named Darth Scourge. I think it may tie it with that.

He had also shown the page of the Exile's death, FWIW
Show spoiler
About scourge...wasn't he the sith warrior to be out dueled in that video where the developers showed gameplay of both light and dark choices? Seems to me that's him.....He saw a different Jedi kill the emperor and now he's your companion. Coincidence? I think not. Kind of similar to Juhani if it *is* him.

I am not surprised in the least, though, that Karpyshyn decided to marginalize K2. Not only is it a very deliberate ****ting on Obsidian, but to add salt to the wound, gave the exile a very lackluster end.

[EDIT]: That *is* just my opinion though. Production of just about any kind is a competitive business afterall. I may not like it, but it is what it is. Out of necessity. [/EDIT]

So now it was Revan, not the Exile, who detonated that Mass Shadow Generator.
[EDIT]: Again, the exile's story was unknown to mast the galaxy, that doesn't mean gnost dural's recitation of history is infallible or inaccurate. [/edit]

BTW, KOTOR2 isn't "completely" retconned, just compartmentalized:
Show spoiler

They'll probably say Nihilus had the powers too but was so weak anyways, that it didn't matter and that the universe wasn't actually in any danger from him.

Like master Vrook Lamar said, "Perhaps it is merely what you believe." ...Then he somehow got spooked into believing it b/c his death was imminent and the force betrayed him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallucination View Post
I'm not familiar with publishing practices, but is it normal to have an uncorrected proof bound? And if it is uncorrected, how did he get a copy (I just assumed it was an advance copy to a reviewer/whoever that got leaked)?
A betrayal of trust by someone working closely is not unheard of in publishing or otherwise--hence laws which protect trade secrets. So basically, it could be a draft or it could have been the final shebang just before reaching the printing press for the books.

Then again, we already know about HK-47 more or less. It looks like an intentional leak to me. Unverifiable on purpose. Careful on what information to release.

@ thread: personally I didn't know what to expect. Actually this somewhat supports this little nightmare theory that has been gaining traction in my head for some time now. Anyone care to guess what that is?

Hint: He who looks like anakin in the timelines has been reborn as one who looks like vader in the cinematics. There have been a lot of little hints to this end.

Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 10-08-2011 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 10-05-2011, 11:17 AM   #25
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Thanks for posting all this info, Avlectus...

But this one page is it? Revan doesn't break free to have an actual duel with the Emperor? Seems a bit of a wussy way to go for him. For the Exile, okay...beytrayal was the central theme of her story anyway. And refusing to pass on to the netherworld in order to piss off the Emperor feels like her as well.

However, I don't know if the hair on toy figures is canon. I recall a story about a Revan toy which had a bald head. That doesn't mean 'bald Revan' is the canon Revan though. He could've shaven his head. Just like Nihilus could've been in a Bob Marley mood. I'd prefer Three Little Birds over evil theme music any day...

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Old 10-05-2011, 08:47 PM   #26
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EDIT, 10-06-11: It seems I might be being harsh. Part of this was due to my initial revolt when I originally posted which I'd think is fairly understandable. I am sorry if it offends, but I am not sorry for being opinionated.

Now that I have had some time to remove that revolt, let me clarify: I am not BASHING on Karypyshyn. I don't think I like how it is for the exile because I am a bigger fan of the Exile than Revan, but I'll accept it considering the alternatives. Furthermore I do agree with Drew Karpyshyn that to leave the Exile OUT would be an insult.

I can accept what happens to Revan because, again, Revan was created by Drew Karpyshyn and anything players got to do with Revan was strictly 'borrowing' the character.

Same goes with the Exile. Anything we do is "borrowed".

I don't like being put back into a spectator role (as J7 says below) and disagree with it intensely. Still, it is what it must be.

I wish others would acknowledge that. /EDIT

@Topic: I would not say that KOTOR 2 has been retconned so much as marginalize because it was not largely known to the galaxy. Basically just because something is not spelled out or given specific attention does not mean that it necessarily has been retconned.

However it seems Drew Karpyshyn has responded to criticisms that K2 has been retconned. I'll let you decide for yourself.

Linky
========
@ spoiler:
Now I looked carefully at the page on the right in that spoiler image of the proto-book and text.

From what little I could decipher
spoiler:
it talks about Revan still being alive and of use. Possibly from the Emperor's point of view. It's very hard to read and you can't see all of it. However, it does seem the Sith Emperor has left Revan alive.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztalker View Post
Thanks for posting all this info, Avlectus...
But this one page is it? Revan doesn't break free to have an actual duel with the Emperor? Seems a bit of a wussy way to go for him. For the Exile, okay...beytrayal was the central theme of her story anyway. And refusing to pass on to the netherworld in order to piss off the Emperor feels like her as well.
Okay so we have some common ground on the Exile... Hold on a moment... I'm feeling sick from what has been done.....
<BAAAAAARRRRRRF!>
Sorry. Just heaving up my exile fanboyism.

As far as Revan being "taken down in such a wussy way"...well, look at the bright side: you can't call him a mary sue anymore now, can you?
Not at Ztalker but @ Revan fanboys in general: Seriously, if everyone is still complaining about him being a mary sue and yet also complains about him NOW being taken down so easily (which would tend to negate that mary sue thing), then you need your head examined. /rant
spoiler:
Besides, the emperor took a cheap shot anyways.

I don't think this was meant as a finale but merely a transition, as a supplement to the game.

Actually, I have sort of had this notion in my head building up for awhile now, that somehow Revan is still alive even into the old Republic. (I wish it wasn't the case, but it looks like it's happeing. Oh well.) I personally think we have been looking at "Revan" since 2009. I have found some little hints to this end. It's a genius idea.

Also note this book will be short:
http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=296
Quote:
DK
So, Revan is “only” 320 pages or so. Because that’s how long it took to tell the story I wanted to tell. Some readers might be disappointed by this. Some readers might finish the book and feel like they wanted more details about what happens to Revan and the other characters in the book. But for me, that’s not the worst thing.

If somebody wants more, that means they enjoyed what was there. That means they were entertained by what they read. They were engaged in what was happening. And to me that’s a far, far better thing than boring my audience with filler.
Fair enough.

For your interest:
http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=239
Quote:
DK
And don’t expect Revan in the novel to be the invincible bad-ass you played at the end of KOTOR. Because that would be boring and lame. Revan is still a bad-ass, but even bad-asses can get their asses kicked by other bad-asses. And the relative badness of a specific ass rises and falls based on numerous factors throughout the narrative arc, so that a wuss-ass at the beginning of the novel may become the ultimate bad-ass at the end.

Got it? Good. Later.

Drew
Whadya know, Revan isn't all powerful like his fanbase wants to believe.

Quote:
However, I don't know if the hair on toy figures is canon. I recall a story about a Revan toy which had a bald head. That doesn't mean 'bald Revan' is the canon Revan though. He could've shaven his head. Just like Nihilus could've been in a Bob Marley mood. I'd prefer Three Little Birds over evil theme music any day...
Who shot the sheriff, now?

Yeah that's why I said speculative. Also I know about the bald Revan figure which was made that way in order to be able to make the hood thing work.

I guess I'm trying to critically analyze this using symbolism and abstracts as evidence. The best ways you can tell if symbolism is in play are prominence and coincidences.

Fatal alliance novel by itself made no sense whatsoever in the greater scheme of things and yet even as much of a cluster**** as this is all turning out to be, they still would not put someone up in a main novel who wasn't important in some way.

However there are a lot of seemingly random odds and ends. At first they make no sense, until you begin searching out similar instances and associated narratives with those instances.

Darth Jadus and bio. Okay... at first we're kind of .
Analyze the bio and find the character is a lot like Nihilus minus the hunger thing. Then Aurebesh says he also has a daughter. In an odd sort of way that makes sense as a nod to Visas. The Sith council is also wary of him, but he has no "hand" (force user) in his employ, only strictly intelligence.

Next, who would that daughter be? I don't know for sure...but I made an educated guess.
spoiler:
I find a human dreadlocked redhead sith woman Eldon Ax stands out a bit for standard SW fare. Don't you? The only other person with hair like that...is the nihilus figure's hair. Well okay, Quinnlan Voss had dreadlock hair but has no relevance here.


spoiler:
You'll see Eldon Ax will be associated with the dark council as Dath Howl's apprentice. From the novel we know what happened to her mother. However she never knew her father. In a direct context it makes no sense, but in the abstract you see now two characters whose blanks fit into each other, plus are in similar but opposing proximity in the hierarchy. To me that suggests there is something to be looked into. Is Eldon Ax the daughter of Darth Jadus? Why would that little fact about him having a daughter be hidden in Aurebesh?


spoiler:
You have the narrative: promising young sith woman who will be watching the back of a councilman, with a promising career ahead. Witty and cunning.


You have the narrative: a mysterious, enigmatic, emotionless and quiet councilman. Presence almost like death itself embodied. Someone about whom "there can be little doubt he is playing a long game", and in the meantime it is a stalemate in terms of what the other sith would do about him. "Who is the hand of Darth Jadus?"

EDIT: @CAD yeah, I guess I should spoiltag even if some of it is publicly available.

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Old 10-05-2011, 11:53 PM   #27
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Suddenly we need spoiler brackets on the title because something tells me the last four posts weren't spoiler-free...


Inspiration

.Bioshock inspiration.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:58 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl Alt Del View Post
Suddenly we need spoiler brackets on the title because something tells me the last four posts weren't spoiler-free...
Excusez moi. Been away from the forums for quite a while. Should've put spoiler tags around my replies...

OT:
spoiler:
After Darth Avlectus posts and seeing the 'Revan' trailer on the website, I can't really shake the feeling that Revan will be dragged out into the game like Arthas was in WoW. Since he's a light/dark character he could be a questgiver for both DS and LS characters. I hope they'll do it in a respectable way though, like was done with Arthas. For people who haven't played WoW: Arthas actually KILLS the players and the raid group. A Deus Ex Machina (ghosts in his sword turning against him, like the finale of the fourth Harry Potter book) are needed to actually get him down. Quite epic.

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Old 10-06-2011, 05:41 PM   #29
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Basically what I am saying is the story "twist" of the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior classes will be something akin to Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi regarding a certain character.

@Ztalker: (Wanring, Decieved spoiler)
spoiler:
I agree. I think Revan was "reborn" as somebody else through sith alchemy. Namely, as Darth Malgus. There have been too many small hints to this end. The biggest two tip-offs:

The force ghost on the Taral V dev walkthrough was referring to Revan, and yet what she said also coincided with Malgus' vision basically of "cleansing the galaxy by fire" and that "the republic wouldn't be the only thing to be cleansed" in the Decieved novel.

Also Darth Malgus' birth name "Veradun", of the 3 ways to rearrange it...well I'll let them speak for themselves
1) nu vader= New Vader (for us irl he will be, his similarity to vader is undeniable)
2) un vader= UNVader (a cryptic hint perhaps that someone else is beneath the surface)
3) d revan u= Darth Revan, YOU (....Could it be?)

If you still have doubts, look at how much they parallel each other both in roles and personality.


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Old 10-07-2011, 04:37 PM   #30
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I sent the following email to Mr Drew Karpyshyn, not expecting a response as I would imagine he's busy with his various projects. Did direct him to this thread so we may hear from him...

Quote:
Dear Sir,

I would be greatly appreciative if this could be forwarded to Mr Karpyshyn as I presume this will be reviewed first by an assistant.

Firstly I would like to apologise for those members of the KotOR community who have direct abuse at Mr Karpyshyn with regards his upcoming Revan novel, seemingly forgetting that in many respects the whole KotOR Franchise would not exist were it not for My Karpyshyn's award winning work on the first KotOR game. It is similar to the way there are many George Lucas haters, and as bad as I feel the prequels are, and as awful as many of the adjustments to the Original Triology are, people often seem to massively blow up over matters which are essentially not important, and seemingly forgetting that with our Mr Lucas Star Wars would not exist at all; unfortunately the internet is home to both hyper-bowl and extreme obnoxiousness.

I can only speak for the majority of forum members of the KotOR section of the Lucas Forums boards where I am a moderator. Firstly we would want to thank you for all you did towards the first game, for the great writing, and for making one of the few genuinely good Star Wars games, as lets be honest Lucas Film and Lucas Arts, now seem more concerned with making money than actually producing good products. However I would say that the community is concerned over the upcoming book, I know my opinion does not count for anything, but ultimately I feel especially the case with the Exile that this book didn't need to include him/her. The essential problem seems to me, is what is the point in making an RPG, if your then later going to decide, the name, sex, force alignment and fate of the players charachter? Instead of allowing a player their little place in the Star Wars universe as a protagonist it is then taken away from the again, and moves them back into a spectator role. For me personally I'm not bothered by retcons, but I think leaving the Exile would of been by far the best course of action, (though I must confess Revan dying does entertain me, in that it would shut all the ego-centric fools who think *they* are the most powerful force user in Star Wars up); if possibly I think leaving Revans gender and pre-memory loss alone would of been good. Though all the above is now beyond a point of being able to change.

I have read your blog post of 30th of September, but I can't help disagreeing with it. Whatever your arguments are for the Exile death scene needing to be read in context, it just doesn't fit either of the established characters. It would at least seem to me that Revan's strength was being a great force user and tactician, the Exile on the other hand is a great warrior. Revan I don't think would willingly face the Emporer without a number of pre-requisites, one of them would certainly be not going with a Sith Lord; Revan it would seem to me would not leave such a thing to chance. With regards the Exile, the death doesn't fit the charachter either. Now if they (Revan and the Exile) fought one on one, I think the Exile would win, however it would never get to that point as Revan would set a trap and use others to kill the Exile. As such I don't think having the Exile stabbed in the back by a Sith Lord, is a fitting death at all, regardless of how you try and argue it. That is of course just one fans take, but frankly I think a better death for the Exile is deserved, especially to fans of the second game. Possibly a heroic death sacrificing him/herself for others, which is the characters general story arc would be alot better. Though, I ultimately think leaving the Exile entirely out of it would of been the best course, with regards Revan I don't think that was ever an option with the upcoming MMO and Revan heading off to stop the "True Sith", but c'est la vie. Please don't drag Revan out in TOR, in any capacity other than being a dead body....

One fans 2 cents; than you for taking the time to read this letter. The KotOR Lucas Forums thread on your book can be found here; http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...01#post2792601

Kind Regards,

jonathan7



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Old 10-10-2011, 10:17 AM   #31
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So, have either of Revan's names been revealed? I say "either" because I find it reasonable to assume that he has had two identities: his birth name, which he would have used up until the Revanchist movement, at which point he became "the Revanchist," followed by "Revan"; and then his new name given by the Jedi Council following his memory wipe, along with an entirely new identity complete with made-up memories. I think it is likely that the Council would have given Revan a name and identity that was completely different from his previous past so as to make it less likely that they would lead to his resuming his mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith.

Are either of Revan's names revealed in the book?


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Old 10-10-2011, 11:11 PM   #32
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To be honest the Taral V flashpoint official video spelt it out in everything but name, so in a way it comes as little surprise to me.
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Old 10-11-2011, 02:05 AM   #33
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Note: This post is an assumption based on info known or leaked.

After seeing the Taral V flashpoint (Thank You, Jaevyn, I had not seen that before) this is starting to make a lot more sense and the book seems better.
For those who had not seen the Taral V flashpoint, please see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0imBz6y38

I believe the force ghost in the video is the Exile. What we know so far is she dies and turns into a force ghost. When she is talking to Master Oteg she mentions a prisoner, this prisoner is most likely Revan. She says he has been imprisoned for 300 years and is extremely powerful. After doing some research I found other discussion threads regarding this topic.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...a-Revan-novel)

A user in the thread (Page 2) says he read the book and at the end Revan and Lord Scourge are kept alive by a Sith Alchemy technique only the Emperor knows, I would assume it also keeps them from aging (Scourge leaked pictures). I think this means that the Emperor had imprisoned Revan alive to consume his power and Lord Scourge ties in with this as he is a Jedi Knight companion. So I think Revan is not dead, and it's the players (end game content? since Taral V is only a level 32 dungeon I don't think Revan will be rescued) who rescue him.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:00 AM   #34
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I see some assumptions being made.

What makes anyone here think "revan" will still be in cryo incubation when you get to that point?

What makes you think a being with such a powerful force essence is going to be left dormant, just laying around for someone to find and rescue?

What makes anyone think "Revan" will still be in a form we recognize as the Revan we know?

What makes anyone think that "Revan" in whatever form he is currently taking will even remember his previous life?

What makes you think that just because
spoiler:
the Exile Ghost
says prisoner, that it is meant literally?

I'm suggesting "how about prisoner of the darkness only, like his current form is physically free to roam while the past is a mystery to him". In other words, he is working for the enemy and currently unaware he once sought to destroy it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordjedi View Post
Note: This post is an assumption based on info known or leaked.
No it was released as a developer walkthrough earlier this year.

Quote:
After seeing the Taral V flashpoint (Thank You, Jaevyn, I had not seen that before) this is starting to make a lot more sense and the book seems better.
For those who had not seen the Taral V flashpoint, please see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0imBz6y38
Um yea we've known about this for a little while. I mentioned it above.

Quote:
I believe the force ghost in the video is the Exile. What we know so far is she dies and turns into a force ghost. When she is talking to Master Oteg she mentions a prisoner, this prisoner is most likely Revan. She says he has been imprisoned for 300 years and is extremely powerful.
See above. It's kind of obvious who she is talking about when it matches up with the timeframe.

Her speaking in metaphor about "ashes raining down on lifeless planets" and "stars burning black" also coincides with
spoiler:
Darth Malgus.

P.242, SWTOR Decieved, Paul S. Kemp, ISBN 978-0-345-51138-6, Released March 22, 2011
"His vision on Korriban had shown him a galaxy in flames. But it was not just the Republic that required cleansing by fire."

Deny it if you will. I have more hints. I've been paying attention. "Revan" has been looking right at us all along, and what is ironic is this time he isn't completely masked. HAHAHAHAHAAAAA!

It's great, and nobody believes me either.

Quote:
After doing some research I found other discussion threads regarding this topic.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...a-Revan-novel)
Post #19 by Dalagrath is starting to get it on the how.

I think when you get to that complex, it will be empty. Revan won't be there.

The Emperor knew about it obviously. And if the Emperor ripped the mask off Revan's face and "plumbed revan's mind", don't you think HE could have had access to the complex? I think the complex is part of the story's "end game", as a trap: this will be the case regardless if you are jedi knight or sith warrior.

Why Jedi knight is obvious.

Why Sith warrior? Well say you killed the Jedi order, and made an example out of the Chancellor and Satelle Shan before executing him and giving her the choice to convert or die.

You don't think the Emperor is wary of you? That you aren't a threat to him now? You might just have a vision of being the new emperor yourself. Or maybe you just want to sit back and watch the world burn starting with his corpse.

Quote:
A user in the thread (Page 2) says he read the book and at the end Revan and Lord Scourge are kept alive by a Sith Alchemy technique only the Emperor knows,
Yeah, Transfer Essence. It's really the only way he could have lived for 1000+ years.

Quote:
I would assume it also keeps them from aging (Scourge leaked pictures).
Sith species live for quite awhile, though nowhere near 1000 years if I am not mistaken. But you're right, the emperor could use this technique on any of his subjects, not just himself. (Hint Darth Sidious punished Bevel Lemelisk this way.) It would have to involve something either like Marka Ragnos' alchemical regenerative process (refer to jedi academy), or...cloning.



Quote:
I think this means that the Emperor had imprisoned Revan alive to consume his power and Lord Scourge ties in with this as he is a Jedi Knight companion.
Why not wipe his mind, give him a new life and make him believe it was the only life he's ever had? Once done, why not arrange to press him into service once more?

Quote:
So I think Revan is not dead, and it's the players (end game content? since Taral V is only a level 32 dungeon I don't think Revan will be rescued) who rescue him.
I agree, it'll probably be end game content. I agree "Revan" is still alive, though not in his original form, and won't realize he needs to be rescued. Which probably means when you encounter "Revan" as he is now, you'll probably have to fight him.
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Old 10-14-2011, 05:18 PM   #35
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So this is basically the Star Wars version of "My Immortal"?


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Old 10-23-2011, 04:55 AM   #36
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I received a reply from Mr Karpyshyn;

Quote:
Thanks for the e-mail. (By the way - I don't have an assistant who reads
this - you must think we get paid way more than we actually do. None of
the Star Wars writers are what I would call rich - we all have other jobs
to make ends meet.)

Your suggestion to leave the Exile alone is one others have made, but it
was never an option. The character is too well known and there is too
strong of a demand from the fan base to know her fate; you would have
preferred not to have her in there, but I believe the (often silent)
majority of the millions of KOTOR fans want to know what happened. And for
me Revan's story wouldn't have made sense without her involvement.


I appreciate your comments regarding her "death" and my rant against
spoilers, and I thank you for the civil tone you used to deliver them.
However, I stand by my original position. You can't get any real sense of
the characters as I portary them in the novel until you actually read the
novel, and there's a lot more to the final scene than what was "leaked". I
spent 100,000 words building up to that, setting things up, establishing
characters, motivations and other factors, so to judge it based on
somebody's 500 word "summary" is - I believe - unfair to me. You say you
want a heroic, worth death, and once you see what the goal was and what
was accomplished I think you'll realize that is what was achieved.

However, you are entitled to your opinion. Hopefully it will change once
you read the novel... but once formed, opinions tend to stay fixed. That's
why I'm urging people to keep an open mind. If you go in thinking you're
against what I've done, it's often a self-fulfilling prophecy, and you're
far less likely to appreciate or enjoy the novel.

Drew



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Old 10-23-2011, 10:28 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blix View Post
So this is basically the Star Wars version of "My Immortal"?
No, but that'd be pretty awesome.


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Old 10-24-2011, 01:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
I received a reply from Mr Karpyshyn;
@ jonathan7

Seriously, your email to Drew would have served no purpose. The book is on the verge of release. And judging by the spoilers, I believe that that Drew has been disrespectful to both Revan and Exile. However, we can only pass final judgment after reading the Novel.

Also, I disliked your approach of strongly defending your favorite character, Exile, in your message while you bashed Revan for no apparent reason. This was completely uncalled for and it reveals your jealousy.

If you talk about powers, I can put a much more convincing case that Exile wasn't as powerful as her fans make her out to be. She was nothing major without her companions and her being wound of the Force. However, I being a fan of Revan, still dislike the way Exile has been treated in the Novel.

Just like the fans of Exile have expectations from there character of getting a good role and performance in the Novel; same is true for the fans of Revan.

Unfortunately, Drew had a chance to satisfy the fans of his works worldwide but he seems to have blown off the opportunity. I can think of a far more convincing story but what can you expect from a writer of average caliber?

Drew is just OK. He does comes up with brilliant ideas but he is not a brilliant story teller, as far as Star Wars is concerned. And you can never ever expect a Force-Titan from him. He has a very different perception of Force and he believes that the Force has limitations.

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Old 10-24-2011, 01:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
@ jonathan7

Seriously, your email to Drew would have served no purpose.
Thanks for your input, though it's my time to waste serving no purpose, and last time I checked I was free to do with my time what I like. Though apart from anything else, I thought it good for Drew to know that not everyone who disagreed with the novel hated or felt the need to flame him.

I'm also sorry I hadn't realised two adults weren't allowed to have a conversation/send each other emails even if "it's pointless" (which for point of fact most of our correspondence with other human beings is, for example what purpose did this reply serve? Or my reply back serve? You think I'm going to change my mind after a few ad hominems from you?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Also, I disliked your approach to strongly defend your favorite character, Exile, in your message. At the same time, you bashed Revan for no apparent reason.
Great, sorry for having an opinion different to yours. I'll have to remember next time I'm sending an email from my personal point of view, I should actually make it balanced in case someone disagree's. If it bothers you so much why don't you write an email to Mr Karpyshyn?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
This was completely uncalled for and it reveals your jealousy.
Seriously, jealousy? HUGE jump of logic here; Yeah I'm real freaking jealous of a fictional charachter... Or maybe the ammount of people who come on these boards claiming Revan could beat Yoda, Vader, Sidious, Jesus and Gandi's ledt flip flop together just causes me (and others) to be cynical towards "their" Revan. I'd rather my Revan didn't die, but she's a black woman; not the generic male Caucasian most people on these boards are; I'd quite happily see their Revan die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
If you talk about powers, I can put a much more convincing case that Exile wasn't as powerful as her fans make her out to be. She was lot less in comparison.
So just another Revan fanboy then? Just to note, my opinion was that Revan is a more powerful force user than the Exile as well as being a better leader...

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Unfortunately, Drew had a chance to satisfy the fans but he seems to have blown off the opportunity. I can think of a far more convincing story but what can you expect from a writer of average caliber?
I think whatever Mr Karpyshyn decided to do he would of been criticised by someone, nor do I think a professional writer who is continually re-hired can be of "average caliber".



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Old 10-24-2011, 01:42 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
Thanks for your input, though it's my time to waste serving no purpose, and last time I checked I was free to do with my time what I like. Though apart from anything else, I thought it good for Drew to know that not everyone who disagreed with the novel hated or felt the need to flame him.

I'm also sorry I hadn't realised two adults weren't allowed to have a conversation/send each other emails even if "it's pointless" (which for point of fact most of our correspondence with other human beings is, for example what purpose did this reply serve? Or my reply back serve? You think I'm going to change my mind after a few ad hominems from you?)
Did I insulted you or something? It seems you got offended by my response.

You can email Drew a thousand times and I wouldn't care. However, your message to him that you revealed here is not fair to Revan fans in my opinion. You dubbed Revan fans as ego-centic fools in your message, which is a very clear insult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
Great, sorry for having an opinion different to yours. I'll have to remember next time I'm sending an email from my personal point of view, I should actually make it balanced in case someone disagree's. If it bothers you so much why don't you write an email to Mr Karpyshyn?
Sending an email to Drew now would serve no purpose. Because the Novel is going to be released soon and we cannot expect any changes in it. We are too late for this exercise.

Also, you can have different opinion from me. I have no issue with it but your message is not balanced. Read it yourself and then get back to me. When you are addressing a writer, you should try to be fair in your message, if you plan to reveal it in the public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
Seriously, jealousy? HUGE jump of logic here; Yeah I'm real freaking jealous of a fictional charachter... Or maybe the ammount of people who come on these boards claiming Revan could beat Yoda, Vader, Sidious, Jesus and Gandi's ledt flip flop together just causes me (and others) to be cynical towards "their" Revan. I'd rather my Revan didn't die, but she's a black woman; not the generic male Caucasian most people on these boards are; I'd quite happily see their Revan die.
I am not the one who made those claims. Judging by how badass Revan was portrayed during KOTOR games, people generally perceived Revan to be very powerful. This still does not justifies the position you took for Revan in your message. I can argue that Revan was indeed a brilliant tactician but he was not afraid of facing his enemies head-on, if he had to. That is what he did against Mandalore the Ultimate, Yusanis, Juhani, Darth Bandon, Bastilla Shan (Dark), and Darth Malak.

Also, I admire Yoda, Vader, and Sidious. Yoda and Sidious were certainly among the most powerful Force users in Star Wars mythos. Vader is also among the decent lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
So just another Revan fanboy then? Just to note, my opinion was that Revan is a more powerful force user than the Exile as well as being a better leader...
No, I am not just another Revan fanboy. I do understand the character of Revan a lot better then you do.

Also, what is this?

"Now if they (Revan and the Exile) fought one on one, I think the Exile would win, however it would never get to that point as Revan would set a trap and use others to kill the Exile."

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathan7 View Post
I think whatever Mr Karpyshyn decided to do he would of been criticised by someone, nor do I think a professional writer who is continually re-hired can be of "average caliber".
Again, some authors have great talent and can write great stories. Drew is not among them. However, this does not suggests that Drew would not get to write Star Wars related work.

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 10-24-2011 at 01:49 PM.
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