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Old 11-13-2011, 09:26 AM   #81
S_W_LeGenD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
I totally agree with DarthMuffin and Totenkopf. The novel is unnecessary, and it´s just a version, as any of ours. And, don´t forget it, Star Wars is a bussiness, even if it is unnecessary. All of us have our own ideas/thoughts about Revan, the exile, and what happened to them. As we have our own versions of Revan and the exile (gender, hair, LS or DS, etc.), we shouldn´t consider this novel as a canon, just another version. I´ll read the novel, but just for curiosity; I´ll still have my own opinion, surely as all of you.
I disagree. I always wanted Revan to be properly defined and his story be completed. He is too important character to be treated as a vague.

Keep in mind that fans do not own Revan. Lucas is the owner. We just borrow the character in KOTOR game.

However, I want Revan to get decent roles and treatment so that fanbase is satisfied. Fans are important because they made Star Wars famous in the first place.

To be honest, I want more novels on Revan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
By now, I suppose all of you konw that, in www.swtor.com, you can download the chapters 3 and 11 of the novel. According to that and what I´ve read here, I think I won´t like the novel very much, because in the novel, it seems Revan is less of what I think; that´s not exactly what I imagined about Revan and what happened to him. I´m one of those thousands of Revan´s fans who think Revan is our favourite character in Star Wars, and any of us have our thoughts, and probably they differ from Drew Karpyshyn´s version, but I don´t think we should kill him and his novel before reading it, I won´t do it. Let´s wait a little longer. Don´t take it as a canon, just enjoy it.
The entire book should be read before forming an opinion.

Revan does actually assists the Mandalorians in reorganizing themselves before leaving for the unknown regions. Canderous becomes the Mandalore after the death of his wife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
And about the previous discussion about Revan VS the exile:
KotOR is my favourite game, in spite of being and "ancient" game from 2003, I enjoy it every time I play it; it has made me to have my own opinion about Revan, which is the same as the one you can read in:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Revan

"Revan was known as a highly skilled warrior, having defeated some of the greatest and most accomplished fighters of his time during the Mandalorian Wars and the subsequent Jedi Civil War, including the former Echani general and senator Yusanis, Mandalore the Ultimate, and Darth Malak, who was counted among the skilled swordsmen of the era.
Revan was an incredibly talented and diligent student of the Force — the most gifted of his time — and eventually, by all accounts, became a very powerful Force practitioner. Both as a Sith Lord and as a Jedi, Revan used a variety of Force powers.
Revan was an exceptionally capable strategist and tactician. Revan's originality as a battlefield commander would earn him the undying respect of both the Mandalorian and Echani warrior cultures.
In addition to his combat prowess, Force mastery, and imaginative battle strategies, Revan spoke and comprehended a variety of languages. Revan was a skilled mechanic.
"…Your potential is unlimited…" - Zhar Lestin.
"You, Revan, are the single greatest warrior of this age, and any battle we fight will bring me honor." - Canderous Ordo.
"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force." - Kreia".

And in KotOR 2:
Kreia:
"Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyony knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil."

When you read this, the only one opinion that you can make is that Revan is very powerful, very charismatic, a natural leader, and a skilled lightsaber wielder.
So, according with the KotOR 1, Revan is very powerful; not inmortal, allmighty and invencible, but very powerful, who decided to make a lesser evil for a greater good. A very interesting character, unfairly looked down on in KotOR 2, just because Obsidian wanted his/her own hero, or maybe they weren´t able to deal with Revan´ success or they didn´t know how to deal with, so they developed a different story. It´s really disappointing not having Revan, Bastila, Carth, Jolee, etc. again. It´s a pity there isn´t a real KotOR 3.
I think it´s absurd discussing who is the best, if Revan or the exile, we cannot make an appropriate comparison, because Revan and the exile are 2 different characters of 2 different games.
In KotOR, Revan starts being a "normal" person, you can get 20 levels, only 12 of jedi (19 with mods). And that´s all.
In KotOR 2, the exile starts being a jedi, at level 15 can get the advanced/master class, you can get 50 levels (with cheats ), and many feats, force powers and skills with the help of Kreia, Brianna, Visas, Atton, HK, T3 and the Jedi masters.
According to this, it´s obvious that the exile is far more powerful than Revan. Another thing would be that the exile was in KotOr and Revan in KotOR 2, as I have done: I played the KotOR 2 as the exile (obviously ): a man, Jedi Guardian level 15 - Jedi Weapon Master level ...; later, I played the game having in mind how Revan could be according with the KotOR and starwars.wikia.com (and, obviously, my decision), and MY result (I insist, it´s just my opinion) is a Jedi Guardian level 15 - Jedi Master level ...). In this case, I prefer Revan. I say all this so you can see it´s absurd arguing who is the best, becuase all of us have our opinion, but, when discussing this, remember we´re talking about different games.

Sorry for this huge and boring post .
This is why gameplay is invalid basis for determining the strengths and weaknesses of a character.

KOTOR II is more advanced then KOTOR I, hence more features and levels are in it.

Officially, the attributes of two characters are as follows:

Jedi Exile:

Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 13
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 20

Darth Revan:

Str: 17
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 15
Wis: 18
Cha: 19

Drew confirmed that Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time.

So.................

Last edited by S_W_LeGenD; 11-13-2011 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:02 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
I disagree. I always wanted Revan to be properly defined and his story be completed. He is too important character to be treated as a vague.

However, I want Revan to get decent roles and treatment so that fanbase is satisfied. Fans are important because they made Star Wars famous in the first place.

To be honest, I want more novels on Revan.
I agree, I want more too, but I would prefered it was in the eagerly wanted KotOR 3 (and not a MMO), a video-game is not only more funny, we can also make our own decisions too, instead of a novel that could be interesting but in which everything is decided and that we could disagree, because there could be something we don´t like. What if you read the novel and it´s not as you thought or wanted? That´s why I´m a little disappointed with what I have read of the novel, because I think Revan is more charismatic, determined, and powerfull than he seems to be in those chapters (the way he fights with the Basilisks..., I expected something as "TFU 2: Betrayal" trailer).
The rest we have read here about the novel is pure speculation.

Quote:
The entire book should be read before forming an opinion.

Revan does actually assists the Mandalorians in reorganizing themselves before leaving for the unknown regions. Canderous becomes the Mandalore after the death of his wife.
I agree, I have just read 2 chapters. But I expected somthing more.

Quote:
This is why gameplay is invalid basis for determining the strengths and weaknesses of a character.

KOTOR II is more advanced then KOTOR I, hence more features and levels are in it.

Drew confirmed that Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time.

So.................
First there were the games, and later the history. Revan and the exile are originally 2 video-game characters that were adapted to the SW history, so I think it´s important to take in account the games and what they offer, even if you disagree. I say I wanted Revan in KotOR 2 and with what it offers (I told before I played K2 as if the PC was Revan instead of the exile).
I also prefer Revan, by far. I expected more of his adventures in KotOR 2, with the rest of characters of the KotOR (or the majority of them), and not another story with another PC and a stupid story about: "Revan went to the Unknown Regions, we know nothing about him". What disappointment!
By the way, you tell me the attributes of the 2 characters; considering the initial attributes in the games, and the others that you get every 4 levels, I don´t see why those attributes you tell me are so high, overall in K1, unless you cheat. We could say the same with Malak: 29, 18, 23, 15, 15, 20. And are the LS bonus included?
But I´ll answer to your argument: seeing these attributes you tell me, the exile is more intelligent and charismatic than Revan . Unacceptable! . Besides, "this" Revan has many odd attributes, so they´re incomplete for getting the bonus; following your argument, I think it would be better to say: 16, 16, 14, 14, 18, 22, and that would be much more than the rest of the companions of the games. I cheat and my Revan is: 16+3, 16, 14, 14, 16, 20.
And we´re talking about Revan, remove the "Darth".

Last edited by Warrior Master; 11-13-2011 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 11-13-2011, 02:20 PM   #83
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I preferred Kreia's version as well and I preferred that Revan remind single. Also I don't want Revan to be define at all for the fan's sake.
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Old 11-13-2011, 03:21 PM   #84
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Single? What´s wrong with Bastila ?
In starwars.wikia.com/Revan, we can read a quite complete description of Revan´s physical appereance (a very bad one, by the way). For what is this necessary? Just for kicking our asses. We select our character at the beginning, everything else is unnecessary. I understand they need a defined character for developing the history, but I think this is absurd. Our character could differ from the canon in a few things before, but now they differ much more.
And it happens the same with some other things they are changing for linking the games, the novels, and the graphic novels. I´m not convinced with all these changes and this "new" history, I liked much more the original canon version of before, which was not so defined and it was a little more opened to our interpretation.

Last edited by Warrior Master; 11-13-2011 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 11-13-2011, 07:11 PM   #85
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Same here. Personally I do believe that Heroes from RPGs should be open to all forms of interpretations.

I love Bastila too. One of the reasons I am partial to have Revan single is the sheer virtue of choice of the fans wanting for their own love interest in their own little worlds.
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Old 11-13-2011, 09:53 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
Officially, the attributes of two characters are as follows:

Jedi Exile:

Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 13
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 20

Darth Revan:

Str: 17
Dex: 17
Con: 14
Int: 15
Wis: 18
Cha: 19

Drew confirmed that Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time.

So.................
Geez, we have canon stats now? I'm one of the biggest "canon-thumping" nerds you'll ever meet, but even I have to admit that that's kind of jumping off the deep end . . .


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Old 11-13-2011, 10:03 PM   #87
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I love these long drawn out discussions about that which we are passionate.

Now if only we could include that one episode where Tom Green pretended to hump a dead moose, that would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
Well now you're kinda asking for it if you assume avatar gender=IRL gender of other users. Let's get real here. What does it make out of both of us if one of us assumes?

I sort of wondered at why he was being so nice to me, and thought my link to psychostick's beer song was "so awesome" for someone "like [me]". Then I realized he was a typical teen guy looking at my christmas avatar of...well you saw the base pic of that meme.

Quote:
By now itīs just another version, but, in time, Iīm afraid it will be canon, cause theyīre already including all of it in www.starwars.wikia.com/Revan : there, it is said that Revan used a green lightsaber when he went to the Unknown Regions (as in the novel), they have added it after, I think it was not before.
In the game, I'd guess both MotF and Heart of the Guardian came into Revan's possession. And after the conflict was terminated, Revan in duty to the Jedi order, probably gave those rare crystals to the order for safe keeping. Obviously had to put a new color crystal inside his saber hilt after the fact.

IIRC the comics had a vision of the future from that point, it showed the star forge, malak face down on the floor dead, and Revan standing with his single lightsaber ignited, Mantle of the Force turquoise blade (not quite cyan). Under the hood was a shadow and a T shaped visor.

I use that and HotG in a 2 saber style. (Can you guess what class I am? )

Also, without mods it is not possible to obtain the original mask and the open front robes. No mods are canon, except maybe something of M4-78 in K2 since that planet at least shows up in at least one canon book. (I eagerly await the day M4-78 is compatible with TSLRCM!) So I would think there would be some explanation for the mask. New robes, since the originals were "seen as abominations and burned" by the jedi order.

Hey, the Exile's ghost doesn't really resemble any of her appearances from her game. I'm kind of irritated about that.


Quote:
Thereīs also a description of Revanīs physical appereance and now, during the KotOR, he looks another Qui-Gon Jinn , another thing added recently.
Yeah, head # PMHC04. I chose that one b/c, well, it looked most like myself. The stubble was added later, and now his hair is more mullet-ish than I like.


Quote:
I also thought Revan went to the Unknown Regions a year later of KotOR (I think itīs that what itīs said in KotOR 2), but know you can read he stayed 2 years, and he and Bastila were married (another change).
I'll try my best to explain these: Revan "left" about a year after defeating Malak so far as Carth knows. Remeber, Revan more or less faded by hiding out anonymously, right out in public, not seeking the attention and glory. A trait I admire for personal reasons--which is starting to make me feel spoiled!

So far as marrying Bastilla:
1) there has been a lot of debate and contention on whether or not this was the case after K1 after pursing the romance or if the Jedi order disallowed it. Final nail in the coffin for the argument as it were.
2) fate's hand because there are STILL a LOT of clueless KOTOR players on about the romance (just ask Shem, better yet go visit his thread "What game did you play, seriously?" in LF republic newsfeed. You'll see what I am talking about.)
3) Remember that scene in ROTS where Anakin could not sleep because of his nightmares? Does that seem in any way similar to you with Revan's nightmares about the resurgent sith empire?

(And yet I get the impression DK hasn't thought that far through it all and will see this and claim it was his idea all along. )

Quote:
Besides, they talk about Revanīs past as Dark Lord and Revanīs reprogrammed mind by the Council as Master Gnost-Doral says in SW TOR; personally, I prefer Kreiaīs version, instead of the "official" version of Revan turning to another ruthless-ambitious-fool Sith because he wanted to be more powerful, and blah, blah, blah ... (another point for the canon ).
I thought Kreia said it was not "falling" to the dark side but rather "sacrificing himself to it"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S_W_LeGenD View Post
However, I want Revan to get decent roles and treatment so that fanbase is satisfied. Fans are important because they made Star Wars famous in the first place.
I'm sure that he will. And since you the player in TOR presumably once made Revan yourself, in a sense you'll be beside yourself when you meet him.

Quote:
To be honest, I want more novels on Revan.
I don't. The more they make on him, the more it will risk damaging what was there before and obscuring/estranging the character to the fans. We're already having that problem with Vader. I say define to a point and then leave well enough alone--just my opinion though.

What has happened was simply because so many fans have demanded it long enough, and that such a move could not be made without some specifics filled in for editorial necessity. As DK said: "It's been building for awhile now", so it probably was decided in terms of
a> what fits established canon
b> what the majority of fans would agree with/what meshes most with SW like resembling a familiar character
c> the author's desires
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:54 PM   #88
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sometimes the estranging fans is a bad idea. that is why i am cautious right now.
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Old 11-15-2011, 04:54 AM   #89
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I'm not shocked that they screwed up Revan's story. I mean when I learned how they decided to go to a MMO game and it being 300 years later, that this is going to be bad for us.

But how they have decided to throw out TSL's story for the most part is just insulting. It's like BioWare wanted to stick it to Obsidian. Not saying BioWare hates Obsidian, but that doesn't change what they did being insulting to Obsidian and fellow TSL fans.

That is one of the reason's why I'm anti-TOR.


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Old 11-15-2011, 08:24 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Avlectus View Post
Well now you're kinda asking for it if you assume avatar gender=IRL gender of other users. Let's get real here. What does it make out of both of us if one of us assumes?

I sort of wondered at why he was being so nice to me, and thought my link to psychostick's beer song was "so awesome" for someone "like [me]". Then I realized he was a typical teen guy looking at my christmas avatar of...well you saw the base pic of that meme.
OK, you caught me. I´m Spanish, and my English level is quite basic, I don´t get what "poor godkin" means, and something tells me is better not to ask.

Quote:
In the game, I'd guess both MotF and Heart of the Guardian came into Revan's possession. And after the conflict was terminated, Revan in duty to the Jedi order, probably gave those rare crystals to the order for safe keeping. Obviously had to put a new color crystal inside his saber hilt after the fact.

IIRC the comics had a vision of the future from that point, it showed the star forge, malak face down on the floor dead, and Revan standing with his single lightsaber ignited, Mantle of the Force turquoise blade (not quite cyan). Under the hood was a shadow and a T shaped visor.

I use that and HotG in a 2 saber style. (Can you guess what class I am? )

Also, without mods it is not possible to obtain the original mask and the open front robes. No mods are canon, except maybe something of M4-78 in K2 since that planet at least shows up in at least one canon book. (I eagerly await the day M4-78 is compatible with TSLRCM!) So I would think there would be some explanation for the mask. New robes, since the originals were "seen as abominations and burned" by the jedi order.

Hey, the Exile's ghost doesn't really resemble any of her appearances from her game. I'm kind of irritated about that.
OK, I am a Jedi Guardian, duelist, with the Mantle of the Force and a blue-violet blade from a mod (as you can see in some images), with one of the character´s robe of the "PSR" but the appereance of one of the master´s robe of the "k1robemodels" mod (I have mixed those mods).
I just find curious that Revan uses 5 different blades using just one lightsaber, being duelist (canon), in 6,7 years. Perhaps he isn´t very sure which color is his favourite one .
What I mean is that they have added it according to the novel, I am thinking about remembering it wasn´t there before, another move for making it canon.

Quote:
Yeah, head # PMHC04. I chose that one b/c, well, it looked most like myself. The stubble was added later, and now his hair is more mullet-ish than I like.
Yes, I choose that face too. I think it´s very good as it is, there is no reason for complicating it, and I think is much better than he is described in www.starwars.wikia.com/Revan:
"Revan was an unprepossessing man, with fair skin and black hair. Neither tall, nor particularly handsome. Indeed, Revan described his own features as "unremarkable" and "average". During the Mandalorian Wars Revan took to wearing his hair long, sometimes tied back and sometimes flowing freely past his shoulders. However, after having his memories altered by the Jedi Council Revan maintained a shorter style. At somepoint before or after his conscription aboard the Endar Spire Revan grew a beard, which he wore throughout the Jedi Civil War, and after. This beard eventually became a trademark part of his appearance. So much so, that after being awarded the Hero's Cross Revan shaved it off and ceased wearing Jedi robes in public, seeking to dissasociate himself from the celebrity he had become".
What the ... ! What absolute nonsense! Totally unnecessary!

Quote:
I'll try my best to explain these: Revan "left" about a year after defeating Malak so far as Carth knows. Remeber, Revan more or less faded by hiding out anonymously, right out in public, not seeking the attention and glory. A trait I admire for personal reasons--which is starting to make me feel spoiled!

So far as marrying Bastilla:
1) there has been a lot of debate and contention on whether or not this was the case after K1 after pursing the romance or if the Jedi order disallowed it. Final nail in the coffin for the argument as it were.
2) fate's hand because there are STILL a LOT of clueless KOTOR players on about the romance (just ask Shem, better yet go visit his thread "What game did you play, seriously?" in LF republic newsfeed. You'll see what I am talking about.)
3) Remember that scene in ROTS where Anakin could not sleep because of his nightmares? Does that seem in any way similar to you with Revan's nightmares about the resurgent sith empire?

(And yet I get the impression DK hasn't thought that far through it all and will see this and claim it was his idea all along. )
I always thought that Revan and Carth finished KotOR being very good friends, so I don´t understand why Revan allowed Carth to think he had gone if Revan was indeed with Bastila for a year more. He tells nothing to one of his best friends? . And time later, in KotOR 2, Bastila tell nothing about that to Carth?
If I was Revan, considering that I´m a hero, a symbol, I would used my reputation, my fame, for reconstructing the Republic and the Order (as GO-TO says in K2), and defeating completely the Sith I created, working to make a strong Republic and Jedi Order, before going to investigate to the Unknown Regions if I think it´s really necessary, because in the novel it seems that Revan remember something of the academy of Trayus at Malachor V, that´s enough for preparing to face new foes, not The True Sith, but foes in the end, as it happens in KotOR 2.
So far as marrying Bastila: I marry her, as simple as that. I don´t care anything else. Are we going to be choosing what to do between all the things we can get in a RPG? I defeat the evil guys; I marry the lovely, precious and beautiful girl; I save the galaxy; I become a hero. What´s next?

Quote:
I thought Kreia said it was not "falling" to the dark side but rather "sacrificing himself to it"?
Kreia:
"Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyony knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil."

I´m sure you agree when I say that the awesome "BoS:RS" is the best mod for K1. Silveredge9 has shown it much better that what I can say: I like very much the way they have done it, offering dialog options that allow you to make a Revan who decided to become "the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil", choosing a constructive way of making things in all moment, manipulating all those fool Sith for creating a strong empire to face the real enemy and for preserving the galaxy, and not being another ruthless-ambitious-fool Sith as Darth Malak. I prefer this neutral Revan and his way of thinking: "the Republic and the Jedi are not able to face the threat of the True Sith, we need something different, something stronger from a military point of view, it´s necessary to do this, it´s what must be done for saving the galaxy".
Maybe I´m wrong and I have understood it incorrectly, but I like it; I think he´s wrong (as we can prove in KotOR 1, LS ending), but it´s very interesting.

Quote:
I don't. The more they make on him, the more it will risk damaging what was there before and obscuring/estranging the character to the fans. We're already having that problem with Vader. I say define to a point and then leave well enough alone--just my opinion though.

What has happened was simply because so many fans have demanded it long enough, and that such a move could not be made without some specifics filled in for editorial necessity. As DK said: "It's been building for awhile now", so it probably was decided in terms of
a> what fits established canon
b> what the majority of fans would agree with/what meshes most with SW like resembling a familiar character
c> the author's desires
I am a little of agreement.
If something works, then the better you can do is altering the lesser possible. KotOR 1 worked very well, and they have altered it too much (creating K2 and TOR and their own stories, cutting important bows with the K1), making something I think doesn´t work as well as before or as it could be, not necessarily bad, but different, and not as many of us would liked. Why? Because it´s a bussiness. I want more about Revan and his companions too, preferably something "alive" in which we could say or do something (I mean a game), and not something done/written, but the choice passed away (KotOR 2 and 3). Now I think Revan and all the original story are misplaced. What else can be told about he without damaging him and our opinions? There will be more novels, you can be sure of that, and the better way to enjoy them is not considering them as canon in a first time, unless you like them. I´m not very convinced, but it´s what it is. Let´s see what they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathScepter View Post
sometimes the estranging fans is a bad idea. that is why i am cautious right now.
Estranging? No, these are just "agressive negotiations" . Everyone uf us have our own opinion, we´re just exposing them, respecting the rest, even if we disagree, unless they´re Sith ; if that´s the case, then . If you want to say something, just say it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shem View Post
I'm not shocked that they screwed up Revan's story. I mean when I learned how they decided to go to a MMO game and it being 300 years later, that this is going to be bad for us.

But how they have decided to throw out TSL's story for the most part is just insulting. It's like BioWare wanted to stick it to Obsidian. Not saying BioWare hates Obsidian, but that doesn't change what they did being insulting to Obsidian and fellow TSL fans.

That is one of the reason's why I'm anti-TOR.
Yes, it was a serious mistake changing of company, KotOR was a Bioware product, they should have been continued with the KotOR 2 when they could. Instead of that, LA gave it to Obsidian, who wanted to develop their own game with their own hero/heroine, making a different story, cutting somethings with the past and placing it 5 years later, kicking the asses of we KotOR fans, despising one the most charismatic characters of SW. And later, Bioware people wanted to take their work up again, making a different story, cutting somethings with the past, and placing it 300 years later! . What a ! Anti-TOR too! Why didn´t they something as they have done with Dragon Age: Origins, a KotOR 3 with a large campaign and DLC for making it more large and interesting? Don´t they realize that they had a very good story and they have thrown out, making this absurd mixture? Always thinking in the bussiness!

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Old 11-15-2011, 10:15 AM   #91
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As I keep saying, let's not forget that the incarnation of the Sith seen in the upcoming MMO was completely inspired by KOTOR 2. I'd say that's pretty major. Granted, they went completely against what Obsidian had in mind for the "true Sith," but the idea originated with Obsidian.

And before anyone says the "true Sith" were Bioware's idea, we've talked about this before: the line that appears in that loading screen in the first game was a throw-away line without much thought behind it, and referred to something entirely different (namely, the Sith species that the exiled Dark Jedi conquered).


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Old 11-15-2011, 10:38 AM   #92
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A Dragon Age: Origins Style Kotor 3 will be cool. Also A Dragon Age: Origins style Kotor 1 would be nice too.

Me being a Kotor 2 fan. Obsidian did a damn good job with Kotor 2.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:44 PM   #93
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As I keep saying, let's not forget that the incarnation of the Sith seen in the upcoming MMO was completely inspired by KOTOR 2. I'd say that's pretty major. Granted, they went completely against what Obsidian had in mind for the "true Sith," but the idea originated with Obsidian.

And before anyone says the "true Sith" were Bioware's idea, we've talked about this before: the line that appears in that loading screen in the first game was a throw-away line without much thought behind it, and referred to something entirely different (namely, the Sith species that the exiled Dark Jedi conquered).
OK. But now, thanks to KotOR 2, there is another way of seeing why Revan did what he did, a possible reason of why he acted that way, the Kreia´s version ("perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil"), something that could explain what it´s not explained in the K1. We can agree or disagree, but now it´s part of the story, whoever developed it. And if we consider only what belongs to the KotOR 1, reason of more for doing what I would done if I was Revan (told before): no need of going to the Unknown Regions searching an unknown enemy of whose existence is not known, but to remain and reconstruct the Republic and the Jedi Order.
By the way, when you talk to Canderous for the first time in Davik´s home, and you ask him why the Mandalorians attacked the Republic, he says it was the Sith who convinced Mandalore of doing it, that that would be a war remembered for a long time (or something like that). Well then, of what Sith faction was he talking about? Those Sith that were apart and in clear inferiority at that moment? I don´t think so, I think it was all planned by the Sith Emperor, to manipulate Mandalore so the mandalorians and the Republic faced in a war that would debilitate them completely, no matter who would won, the winner faction would be very debilitated for facing a new enemy, so when the True Sith were coming, already they would have very much anticipated, and their victory would be a lot easier. But Revan avoided it defeating the mandalorians sufficiently before the total disaster. Revan could discover it, and that could explain why he acted as he did it later.
I think it was the Sith Emperor who manipulated the mandalorians for doing the dirty work.
It´s just a theory, but considering what Canderous says, and what we know now from the KotOR 2 and TOR... That could place the True Sith in the KotOR 1, no? I insist, it´s just a theory.

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A Dragon Age: Origins Style Kotor 3 will be cool. Also A Dragon Age: Origins style Kotor 1 would be nice too.

Me being a Kotor 2 fan. Obsidian did a damn good job with Kotor 2.
OK, I don´t say KotOR 2 is bad, by no means. It´s interesting and I enjoy playing it, but I enjoy more the K1. I had preferred a story based on the previous KotOR, with its characters, that´s the point of being a second part, a sequel . And, to be honest, the technical part of the game could be much better, it´s a game developed 1,5 or 2 years after the K1, and the scenes, trees, cities, some details here and there, the faces are much better in K2 than in K1, but the rest... I think they are of a little lower quality than the K1. And if we talk about the great music of the K1 and the "music" of the K2... It´s not important for the story of the game, but I felt disappointed with all that; obviously, I like much more the KotOR 1, for all.

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Old 11-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #94
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to each his own. kotor 2 had Kreia and i like Kreia. For she is a good teacher. Bastila is beautiful on many levels in which I like but she is too inexperienced to be a Jedi Instructor. don't forget about the Exar Kun Faction. Not all of them died at the end of the War. Weaken but not dead. And Korriban was on the edge of Sith space anyways and the Republic was licking its wounds from that war.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:41 PM   #95
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To be honest, I hear Kreia just the half of what she says, because she is a dark jedi, don´t forget she is Darth Traya, she is with you not only for the bound you two share, but because also she is interested in it for her own intentions; too much neutrality throwing to dark, it seems to me something apathetic, and as she says: "apathy is dead". I prefer the Jedi/LS way, to "my" way, because the problem is that, in the game, it seems that to be a Jedi (a good Jedi) you have to be a little prude (some dialog options are so "good"). I do my duty as a Jedi because I want to do it, I like to do it, I can do it, I desire it, it gives me the desire, and, of course, because it is the correct thing. But there´s no need of being more papist than the Pope.
I have never seen Bastila as an instructor, just a beautiful, skilled and interesting companion, but not an instructor for the reason you have exposed.
And about E. Kun´s faction, that war took place about 35/40 years before the mandalorian wars, almost all of the people who fought there are dead at that moment, except Jolee and a few very old masters. I don´t remember now what Jolee says about that war, if you ask him if all the traitors are dead (something like that).
I admit that there is probable that those Sith survivors from Kun´s faction transmited their knowledge to new Sith students, but I think it´s not the same. And remember that most of the original Darth Revan´s army, or probably all his army, are former Republic soldiers, not those Sith who could join later, right?.
Maybe you´re right, there are always Sith, but these Sith you talk about were weaken, I think they were not prepared for a new war. I think Canderous says about them that they preferred to remain in their own territories, as if the thing was not with them.

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Old 11-15-2011, 02:55 PM   #96
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And before anyone says the "true Sith" were Bioware's idea, we've talked about this before: the line that appears in that loading screen in the first game was a throw-away line without much thought behind it, and referred to something entirely different (namely, the Sith species that the exiled Dark Jedi conquered).
Just some food for thought: in one of the early conversations with Canderous, you can get him to mention that the Mandalorians attacked the Republic because the Sith thought it was a good idea. I doubt he was talking about the Exar Kun & Friends Sith, since the Mandalorian Wars started ~30 years after they were wiped out (and the Mandos already participated in that anyway), and that seems to imply they met the Unknown Regions Sith, possibly when they were melting non-Republic faces across the galaxy.

Like I said, it's an early conversation, you can get it on Dantooine with no major effort required if you want to hear it yourself.


Let's kill ourselves.
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:51 PM   #97
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Darth Sion and Jorak Uln did serve in both Exar Kun and Revan's armies of DOOM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:16 PM   #98
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Yeah, exactly, that's just what I was about ti point out. And I've heard the conversation before, and thought it was clear that he was referring to the remaining Kunist forces. From what I gather, there seem to have been quite a few of them left over who were eventually assimilated into Revan's Empire.

Bioware clearly did not come up with the "true Sith" idea. Don't get me wrong, it is obviously true that the retconned stance now is that Canderous was referring to the "true Sith," but that definitely wasn't was Bioware had in mind at the time.


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Old 11-17-2011, 11:05 AM   #99
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My review

Guys,

I read the book last night and I copied and pasted a review that I wrote for Amazon.com below. Additionally, I'm copying another review from Amazon as well. I think the person that wrote it did a better job than I did.

I am particularly interested in hearing feedback from people that played Kotor 1 and Kotor 2.

Enjoy,
Ron


My Amazon Review:

**My review contains spoilers about the ending.**

Let me begin by saying that I have always enjoyed Drew Karpyshyn's books. For the most part this book is well written and there are several very cool geek out moments. I was particularly excited to reconnect with Revan and the Jedi Exile after a long absence. These characters were introduced back in 2003 and 2006 respectively in the Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR 1) video game and in the Knights of the Old Republic: The Sith Lords (KOTOR 2) video game.

First of all, I admit that I was disappointed by the slim size of the book when I first picked it up. The book reads well and was enjoyable until the last couple of chapters. My main problem is with how Karpyshyn chose to end the book.

I think Karpyshyn forgot exactly how much people are invested in the characters of Revan and the Jedi Exile. We didn't just read about them in a book or watch them on a screen. Many people are like me in that we PLAYED and REPLAYED these characters in KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 games. Of all of the Expanded Universe (EU) characters, the three I am the most interested in are Revan, the Jedi Exile, and Galen Marek of "The Force Unleashed" fame. Both KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 ended on cliffhangers and fans of these games have waited for years to learn what happened to Revan and the Exile.

**Spoilers Begin**
Show spoiler


**Spoilers End**

Simply put Drew, you ruined my KOTOR experience. I wish I had never read this book. Not knowing what happened to Revan and the Exile was much more preferable than learning the fates that you created for them.

My honest recommendation is to skip this book if you enjoyed KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2. If you have to read it, stop on page 274.

Drew, do everyone a favor. Fix this travesty by rewriting the ending. You can start on page 275. Post your revised ending on your website and allow everyone to read it for free.


Amazon Review by Annihilatrix1138:
**This review contains mild spoilers. No text is hidden**

The Companions of the Ebon Hawk deserved better..., November 16, 2011
By Annihilatrix1138 (CA, United States)
This review is from: Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan (Hardcover)

I don't think Drew Karpyshyn properly grasped how much emotional investment fans of Knights of the Old Republic have tied up in this story, these characters, and the ending that never seemed to come; if he had, this novel probably wouldn't have turned out the way it did. It might be unfair to judge this novel the way I am right now, since the bias here can't be understated. It's been seven years since I played both games of the KotOR series for the first time, which was one of the most memorable gaming experiences I've had in my life. Since then, I've played the games many times over, always wondering what happened to Revan, the Exile, and their respective companions.

THE OLD REPUBLIC: REVAN attempts to give those of us who've been waiting for more than half a decade some form of closure, but instead manages to effectively kick all of the loose plotlines into a shallow grave, and plant a big sign on top of it that reads, "You happy now? Move on."

To start off: don't let the title and that picture of the eponymous hero trick you. This book is NOT about Revan; if anything, only a third of the book's scant 280 pages actually centers on him. The rest follows a previously unknown Sith pureblood called Lord Scourge: a Dark Lord with a name so campy that his dark side compatriots can't help but poke fun at it. For reasons that I'll probably never understand, this Lord Scourge is the absolute focus of the book. This is about his rise to power, his trials upon the Sith homeworld, his misdeeds; while Revan is relegated to going through the motions and reenacting events that were already thoroughly covered in the games, the majority of which he spends helping Canderous Ordo reclaim the Mask of Mandalore.

And yes, Canderous Ordo, the trigger-happy Mandalorian who helped Revan escape Taris, makes an appearance, as does Bastila Shan, T3, and the Jedi Exile from KotOR 2: The Sith Lords (permanently named Meetra Surik for the rest of the book). Unfortunately, no one else manages to make an appearance. Not one of them. In a very awkward part of the book, Canderous suggests excitedly that they get the old gang back together for their coming adventure to recover Mandalore's Mask, but we are quickly given very bad reasons why this would be impossible. The old Companions of the Ebon Hawk are each given a brief mention, but are otherwise completely forgotten for the rest of the book. (Though, for some reason, Carth Onasi doesn't even get the token mention the rest got, and his name doesn't pop up even once in the book.)

And it's especially disappointing because even when characters like Revan, Canderous, or Bastila make their appearances, they don't even faintly act how they did in the games. There's no humor, no candor, only a few brief and forced mentions of the old days, and when someone talks, it's so direct as to almost make them sound robotic. Even when Revan and Canderous return to the Ebon Hawk, the book briefly mentions the ship's shape and a recap of how they got it, and the story moves on. Karpyshyn allows for absolutely no sense of fond reminiscence, no revisiting of old adventures, and characterization I can only describe as barebones. You could've switched around the names of every character in the book, and I wouldn't be able to tell you who was who.

Once again, it feels as though Karpyshyn's work is the victim of this mythical deadline that he's apologized more than once for. Characterization is not as dense as it should be, dialogue is scarce (which is totally weird, coming from the writer of dialogue-heavy games like KotOR and MASS EFFECT), and actions that should take up a paragraph take pages for themselves. Too much of this book seems like filler.

So, Revan's part in this book - this book titled REVAN - is actually very minimal, and most of what he does here is actually covered in the games. The Jedi Exile is dug back up, minus any mention at all of her respective companions (Atton Rand and the gang), is given a name and an ending so badly implemented that I almost stopped reading right then and there. Not to mention that the canon established by the games is trampled to suit the overall goal of the book, which appears to be to set up the story for BioWare's new MMO, THE OLD REPUBLIC.

With all of that in mind, I'm still asking myself: What was the point of this book? If it was to give KotOR fans some closure, it utterly failed in that regard. I'm sitting here more unsatisfied with the state of Revan's story than I ever was in the seven years since playing the game. If it was to set up the new MMO for potential players, I have no real idea how anything that happens in this book would be more informative than just playing the games or reading their synopses, since a lot of what happens is just extended action scenes, sans the one chapter that actually, and directly, sets up the MMO.

This book is one of the most disappointing things I've ever read, and that is not an exaggeration. Seven years of waiting led up to this book - a book that didn't even bother to supply meaningful endings for the characters that Karpyshyn helped create. But, again, I have to mention the bias here; my expectations here were extremely high. I'd expected to revisit old characters, see their stories to an end, and unravel the mystery of Darth Revan that the games had spun so well. But when all is said and done, we have a bitter and (unbelievably enough, given the timeframe) rushed ending for Revan, a token mention of characters we'd spent so much time with (if they were lucky enough), all of which is completely overshadowed by the story of a Sith pureblood named Lord Scourge: a story so uninteresting, I nearly skipped most of his chapters.

And then, as if to rub it in our faces, the rug is pulled out from underneath us, revealing the book's true intentions: a not-so-subtle sign pointing the way toward THE OLD REPUBLIC MMO. "You happy now? Move on - preferably in the direction of the TOR subscription page."

No, thank you. The Endar Spire still spins with or without this book.
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:05 PM   #100
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KotoR is my favorite game of all time, I like it more than people should like games, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the book. It seems some opinions mirror the "George Lucas raped my childhood crap of the late nineties".

Your entitled to your opinions but it has followed the plot points outlined in the loading screens from both games, I dont see the problem myself. I will admit that KotOR II is not how I envisioned a continuation of the original, but I enjoyed that too.

Great Book IMO.


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Old 11-17-2011, 01:10 PM   #101
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KotoR is my favorite game of all time, I like it more than people should like games, and I've thoroughly enjoyed the book. It seems some opinions mirror the "George Lucas raped my childhood crap of the late nineties".

Your entitled to your opinions but it has followed the plot points outlined in the loading screens from both games, I dont see the problem myself. I will admit that KotOR II is not how I envisioned a continuation of the original, but I enjoyed that too.

Great Book IMO.
I find this to be a very honest review, thank you!
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:25 PM   #102
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It´s exactly what I think about the novel, about the KotOR 2 with regard to the KotOR 1, about TOR with regard to both KotOR 1 and 2, and the direction that LA is taking and of the way in which they´re doing it: $$$!
In their effort for progressing, they´re doing it every time worse. What a so unnecessary way of complicating the things that were working and were very well! What a magnificent story/saga they could have developed and in what it´s now!
We, the fans, deserve something better, don´t we?
It´s my modest opinion, I think the KotOR saga it´s less than it could have managed to be.
A simply perfect review, it´s necessary to add not even a comma.
I said before we should wait until we´d read the novel, but after reading this review, which is exactly as I was afraid, ... Good-bye novel!

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Old 11-17-2011, 08:51 PM   #103
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I picked up the novel today and have only read the prologue and the first chapter. I found the prologue to be rather bland and a bit overzealous, trying to cram too much information down our throats at one time; but I really loved the chapter with Darth Scourge.

And I find it kind of sucky that Revan knows himself as "Revan" now, considering how fiercely the dialogue choices for the light side path in KOTOR hammer the point home that he no longer has any use for that identity. I know what Mr. Karpyshyn is trying to do, and I appreciate it, but as much as it pains me to say, he really should have given Revan an official name. I mean, we've already got a face for him now, and the Jedi exile has a face and a name, so you may as well take it all the way.

And I refuse to believe that "Avner" crap is anything more than a pseudonym.


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Old 11-18-2011, 10:24 AM   #104
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And I refuse to believe that "Avner" crap is anything more than a pseudonym.
read further


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Old 11-18-2011, 04:48 PM   #105
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I'm enjoying it so far through the first nine chapters. I know the basic premise about the ending and how it ties to SWTOR.
While I'm not crazy about what they did, I will point out that DrewK came on board late to TOR. Revan's fate may have been outlined prior to his involvement. So the hate mail should probably go to Bioware as a whole instead of singling out Drew.

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Old 11-18-2011, 07:16 PM   #106
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So is Revan basically in some kind of stasis before the start of TOR?
spoiler:
so is Revan actually Bastila's baby-daddy?


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Old 11-19-2011, 08:55 AM   #107
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I agree, I want more too, but I would prefered it was in the eagerly wanted KotOR 3 (and not a MMO), a video-game is not only more funny, we can also make our own decisions too, instead of a novel that could be interesting but in which everything is decided and that we could disagree, because there could be something we don´t like. What if you read the novel and it´s not as you thought or wanted? That´s why I´m a little disappointed with what I have read of the novel, because I think Revan is more charismatic, determined, and powerfull than he seems to be in those chapters (the way he fights with the Basilisks..., I expected something as "TFU 2: Betrayal" trailer).
The rest we have read here about the novel is pure speculation.
I understand. I also wanted KOTOR 3. But KOTOR 2 destroyed Revan's story in my opinion. Revan' story was beautiful and clean in the first game. Then came KOTOR 2 and we learned that Revan went in to the unknown regions and never came back. This sucked.

However, I do think that some attributes and characteristics of Revan and Jedi Exile needed to be defined and it has been rightfully done so.

If Revan and the Jedi Exile are considered in a debate, we can never properly argue for them with vague characteristics. Our personal assumptions will have no merit unless they have canonical support behind them.

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I agree, I have just read 2 chapters. But I expected somthing more.
The novel is not bad. Give it a try. However, it lacks in depth.

I personally believe that the novel seriously lacks in depth in the finale specially. The struggle to reach the Sith Emperor should have been a long one and it would have been good to see lots of combat feats of Lord Scourge, Jedi Exile, and Revan in the process. Drew wasted this golden opportunity in my opinion. The final battle was also not good enough for my liking.

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First there were the games, and later the history. Revan and the exile are originally 2 video-game characters that were adapted to the SW history, so I think it´s important to take in account the games and what they offer, even if you disagree. I say I wanted Revan in KotOR 2 and with what it offers (I told before I played K2 as if the PC was Revan instead of the exile).
I also prefer Revan, by far. I expected more of his adventures in KotOR 2, with the rest of characters of the KotOR (or the majority of them), and not another story with another PC and a stupid story about: "Revan went to the Unknown Regions, we know nothing about him". What disappointment!
I absolutely agree with you here.

Though I have no issues with introduction of the Jedi Exile. Her story is good in the Revan' novel surprisingly.

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By the way, you tell me the attributes of the 2 characters; considering the initial attributes in the games, and the others that you get every 4 levels, I don´t see why those attributes you tell me are so high, overall in K1, unless you cheat. We could say the same with Malak: 29, 18, 23, 15, 15, 20. And are the LS bonus included?
But I´ll answer to your argument: seeing these attributes you tell me, the exile is more intelligent and charismatic than Revan . Unacceptable! . Besides, "this" Revan has many odd attributes, so they´re incomplete for getting the bonus; following your argument, I think it would be better to say: 16, 16, 14, 14, 18, 22, and that would be much more than the rest of the companions of the games. I cheat and my Revan is: 16+3, 16, 14, 14, 16, 20.
And we´re talking about Revan, remove the "Darth".
No, I am not talking about the initial attributes of the game.

Those are official attributes of the two characters during the Jedi Civil War. However, they do not give you the whole picture. Revan has certain specialities and so does Jedi Exile. And characters grow and change with passage of time.

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Old 11-19-2011, 10:03 AM   #108
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So is Revan basically in some kind of stasis before the start of TOR?
spoiler:
so is Revan actually Bastila's baby-daddy?
Show spoiler


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Old 11-20-2011, 09:27 PM   #109
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I used to think that conversation with Canderous was referencing something like the "True Sith" mentioned in TSL, but besides the fact that the conversation was not acknowledged in the novel, a closer look at the following quote makes me pretty certain that Canderous thought Revan and Malak had acquired their military capital (ships, droids, weapons, etc.) by allying with the rebuilt remnants of Kun and Qel-Droma's Sith "empire" (since he was unaware of the Star Forge at the time):

"The Sith had gone – retreated into their empire. They sealed themselves off from the rest of the galaxy. We thought it would be centuries before they'd come back. It's amazing that they could rebuild their fleet so fast."

If the Sith he was referring to rebuilt their fleet shorter than on the order of centuries, the only Sith he could really be referring to were Kun and Qel-Droma's AFAIK.

----

RE: stats

The stats posted earlier in the thread for Revan and the Exile are from the Saga edition KotOR campaign guide. Saga edition and Star Wars d20 (which the KotOR games are mostly based on) are closely related, but not the same, with some different rules regarding ability scores (for example, Saga Edition lets you boost two ability scores by one point every four levels instead of just one ability score).

Also, as I've been told countless times, while general character information in RPG sourcebooks is canon, character stat blocks (ability scores, feats, abilities, etc.) are not.

Nevertheless, presumably the RPG authors were working from notes and source material that result in a close approximation of what the creators of the characters envisioned.

----

RE: the novel

The novel hit on all the necessary plot points, but it really did so in a pretty generic fashion.

The entire novel is told more or less "over the shoulder" of the POV characters, just like it was a partial script for a computer game, and never "zooms out" to touch upon the state of the Republic, its military, the Jedi Order, etc. The Sith Empire the novel portrays is a starport, a couple of palaces/fortresses, a club, a cave, a factory, and a warehouse, with slaves, subjugates, and military personnel wandering about.

I don't know if the author was working on a page restriction, but the novel could have been a lot better with more time spent conveying the state of affairs and setting the stage for the war to come. The desperate need for Revan and the Exile to succeed in delaying the Emperor's plans because the Jedi Order needed time to rebuild and the Republic was still in shambles after the Jedi Civil War and its aftermath was never conveyed, nor was the terrifying buildup of the Imperial military.

I didn't really mind the depiction of the two Jedi heroes. For me the book left enough unsaid to allow the player/reader to interpret plenty of both games the way they choose.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:13 PM   #110
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Just finished the book. Wow.
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Sad but awesome book.

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Old 11-21-2011, 08:47 AM   #111
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I just finished reading Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan over the weekend and found it a good read. Drew Karpyshyn knew he had a tough road ahead of him on this one but I thought he did a fairly good job of bringing the main characters and events from the KotOR games into this new story.

I still wonder how George Lucas feels about or if he is even aware of the way the Force has been portrayed in the Old Republic era. First it was the wound in the Force and potential destruction of the Force in KotOR II: TSL.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:11 AM   #112
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Let me apologize in advance for the long post, I guess I'm just loving this too much.

Man, this book is harder to get in person at the bookstore than anything I've come across lately. Sold out *every* time Barnes and Noble has gotten a shipment in. Crazy. Probably won't be able to get it in person until january at this rate. Everyone ordered most of them from B&N online so there were only a small group in person and those sold out in a few hours of release. Looks like the case with every shipment that has come in thereafter.

Sorry no review yet.

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Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
OK, you caught me. Iīm Spanish, and my English level is quite basic, I donīt get what "poor godkin" means, and something tells me is better not to ask.
GODKING is the name of another LF member...one who mistook me and at least one other member for girls because of our avatars. Poor fella.


Quote:
OK, I am a Jedi Guardian, duelist, with the Mantle of the Force and a blue-violet blade from a mod (as you can see in some images), with one of the characterīs robe of the "PSR" but the appereance of one of the masterīs robe of the "k1robemodels" mod (I have mixed those mods).
I just find curious that Revan uses 5 different blades using just one lightsaber, being duelist (canon), in 6,7 years. Perhaps he isnīt very sure which color is his favourite one .
It changes along with him.

Quote:
What I mean is that they have added it according to the novel, I am thinking about remembering it wasnīt there before, another move for making it canon.
If you'll refer to the Darth Bane novels, you will see that he has had a habit of semi-retconning things. Changing the slight details. Bane was just an obscure and otherwise anonymous sith and Revan hadn't been thought up yet. Plus the existing works on him prior didn't go very far. The Jedi vs Sith war, some of the aftermath and Bane's visit to Dxun, and that's pretty much it iirc.

He's retconned a few things about K1 it appears and some things about K2. I'll accept his story with a grain of salt, and maybe do my own personal reconciling retcon of all things to set it straight.


Quote:
Yes, I choose that face too. I think itīs very good as it is, there is no reason for complicating it, and I think is much better than he is described in www.starwars.wikia.com/Revan:
"Revan was an unprepossessing man, with fair skin and black hair. Neither tall, nor particularly handsome. Indeed, Revan described his own features as "unremarkable" and "average". During the Mandalorian Wars Revan took to wearing his hair long, sometimes tied back and sometimes flowing freely past his shoulders. However, after having his memories altered by the Jedi Council Revan maintained a shorter style. At somepoint before or after his conscription aboard the Endar Spire Revan grew a beard, which he wore throughout the Jedi Civil War, and after. This beard eventually became a trademark part of his appearance. So much so, that after being awarded the Hero's Cross Revan shaved it off and ceased wearing Jedi robes in public, seeking to dissasociate himself from the celebrity he had become".
What the ... ! What absolute nonsense! Totally unnecessary!
For personal reasons I can understand anonymity and wanting secrecy. It's a personal taste of mine, but I do agree with you they have otherwise complicated it, retconning the in game appearance. Maybe that's just DK's 'artistic style'? I dunno. Just one of those odd little things I guess.


Quote:
I always thought that Revan and Carth finished KotOR being very good friends, so I donīt understand why Revan allowed Carth to think he had gone if Revan was indeed with Bastila for a year more. He tells nothing to one of his best friends? . And time later, in KotOR 2, Bastila tell nothing about that to Carth?
Good catch there, and from how this looks...I'm afraid I can't explain that for others like yourself who probably really liked Carth. It indeed looks like a retcon of what Carth said in K2...perhaps intentionally so. Even with my personal tastes I can't explain the timeline as anything BUT a retcon.

Personally, the game mechanic sort of crammed the companion storylines down your throat; while I indeed helped Carth get his son Dustil back, and perhaps I underestimate how much that would endear me to Carth as a friend...at the same time "all in the line of duty". Also Carth is a bit whiny--at least that's how he came across to me. Still I suppose I too would have been more honest about the timeline, even as much as I prefer my privacy and secrecy.

Quote:
If I was Revan, considering that Iīm a hero, a symbol, I would used my reputation, my fame, for reconstructing the Republic and the Order (as GO-TO says in K2), and defeating completely the Sith I created, working to make a strong Republic and Jedi Order, before going to investigate to the Unknown Regions if I think itīs really necessary, because in the novel it seems that Revan remember something of the academy of Trayus at Malachor V, thatīs enough for preparing to face new foes, not The True Sith, but foes in the end, as it happens in KotOR 2.
Problem with that is that visions happen when they happen. You don't choose, you choose to heed its message or warning or you don't.

"Always in motion the future is."
--Yoda

And the way it works is that shatterpoints in the force are constantly moving just like life everywhere. When Kreia talks about the force, its eddies and currents, following the "fracture" to its core, she is talking about this very thing. She may be being deceptive but on such a matter as this I doubt she's deceiving you: she hates the force and wants to kill it.

Revan could have acted upon his visions later, and tactically that is a smarter move than what he did, I agree. However from the chapter 11 "peek", I think it is safe to say that if Revan did not act when he did, Canderous Ordo might not have gotten the Mandalore's the helmet. The other Mandalorian clan was closing in on where it was to be found, or so I am lead to believe. I don't know that for sure but it is not an unreasonable ....speculation.

If you'll indulge me on shatterpoints a little more:
Show spoiler



Quote:
Kreia:
"Is that what he was? Or was he always true to himself, no matter what personality he wore? And there is something that the Council may never understand. That perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyony knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war. Perhaps he became the dark lord out of necessity, to prevent a greater evil."
^^^This.


Quote:
Iīm sure you agree when I say that the awesome "BoS:RS" is the best mod for K1.
I'm sorry but I can't say that I do. I have tried out the demo version, but the writing and dialogue just stuck out way too much for me to want to download and play the full thing later on.

(I have nothing against you personally SilverEdge! You display plenty of initiative and you get results!)


Also, what did I say it makes out of yoU and ME when you ASSume?


Quote:
I am a little of agreement.
*brevity* Because itīs a bussiness.
Well, we all see that now. When I finally get my hands on the novel and read it for myself, I'll make the decision for myself. So far it sounds like a big massive cluster F%*#. I do wish, though, things being business didn't have to botch and intrude on existent stories so much.

Quote:
I want more about Revan and his companions too, preferably something "alive" in which we could say or do something (I mean a game), and not something done/written, but the choice passed away (KotOR 2 and 3). Now I think Revan and all the original story are misplaced. *brevity* Iīm not very convinced, but itīs what it is. Letīs see what they do.
Suspension of disbelief is optional.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
As I keep saying, let's not forget that the incarnation of the Sith seen in the upcoming MMO was completely inspired by KOTOR 2. I'd say that's pretty major. Granted, they went completely against what Obsidian had in mind for the "true Sith," but the idea originated with Obsidian.
I thought the tales of the jedi comics (circa ~1996) was where it first was mentioned? I'll give Obsidian credit for attempting to expand and expound upon it where BioWare did not.

Quote:
And before anyone says the "true Sith" were Bioware's idea, we've talked about this before: the line that appears in that loading screen in the first game was a throw-away line without much thought behind it, and referred to something entirely different (namely, the Sith species that the exiled Dark Jedi conquered).
I do agree that BioWare was going to ignore it or make much less out of it than Obsidian. So all the people blaming Obsidian for "going way too far in their own direction" need to sit down and be quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior Master View Post
To be honest, I hear Kreia just the half of what she says, because she is a dark jedi, donīt forget she is Darth Traya, she is with you not only for the bound you two share, but because also she is interested in it for her own intentions;
To be fair, I think her motivations changed once she realized she wasn't going to get the remaining Jedi Masters to acknowledge the truth embodied through the Exile, let alone accept it. Up until that point she had been okay and perhaps neutral. So she lashed out in response. Then after that, well there really was nowhere else to go but back to the dark side. Also, she saw in the end she too was part of the problem and had to be eliminated. Since she was an unreliable narrator the best thing she could do as a teacher was ultimately to pit the Exile against herself--and in a way it fell into place because of her insane goal to "kill the force". The Exile had to heal and be strong once again. Kreia gave the Exile no other options, made her face it and overcome it. Kreia did it all for the Exile. Kreia was old and there was no turning back for her by that point.

Quote:
And about E. Kunīs faction, that war took place about 35/40 years before the mandalorian wars, almost all of the people who fought there are dead at that moment, except Jolee and a few very old masters. I donīt remember now what Jolee says about that war, if you ask him if all the traitors are dead (something like that).
I admit that there is probable that those Sith survivors from Kunīs faction transmited their knowledge to new Sith students, but I think itīs not the same. And remember that most of the original Darth Revanīs army, or probably all his army, are former Republic soldiers, not those Sith who could join later, right?.
Maybe youīre right, there are always Sith, but these Sith you talk about were weaken, I think they were not prepared for a new war. I think Canderous says about them that they preferred to remain in their own territories, as if the thing was not with them.
That's true, Sion was a part of Kun's army. I wonder, though, if Sion and Kreia weren't friends when they were younger (or perhaps a little more but it fell apart). Like Sion once was a Jedi. Remember Kun and Qel Droma were both fallen Jedi too. Shame they didn't go more in depth on him--I see how he could have been a "tragic villain". He may have been a grunt but it would seem that having love for the canon female Exile would suggest at some point that he might have been a good man.

I too think Sion and his assassins were a band of remnants on their own territory. Also even he was aware something lurked beyond the outer rim in K2.

Shem (or SOMEBODY) actually showed a video of Canderous saying it hadn't originally been the idea of the mandalorians to attack, rather some sith who sealed themselves off once the war had begun. This is not new.

It's debatable whether what was meant at that time:

We had mention of sith species prior to BioWare and KOTOR 1, Lucasarts came up with that. K1 simply has a throwaway line saying the sith species were believed extinct. Obsidian later had the idea of the True Sith. The RP book elaborated on Sion's past as part of the Kunist forces as I pointed out above with the link to Sion's wiki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
Yeah, exactly, that's just what I was about ti point out. And I've heard the conversation before, and thought it was clear that he was referring to the remaining Kunist forces. From what I gather, there seem to have been quite a few of them left over who were eventually assimilated into Revan's Empire.

Bioware clearly did not come up with the "true Sith" idea. Don't get me wrong, it is obviously true that the retconned stance now is that Canderous was referring to the "true Sith," but that definitely wasn't was Bioware had in mind at the time.
Agreed. I think BioWare wanted to go its own direction, eschewing the sith species, then Obsidian wanted to take it all their direction possibly the Kunists...then LA comes in and decides the ancient sith species isn't extinct but hidden and took it ultimately in their own direction.

Sadly we'll never know now.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:03 AM   #113
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From what Obsidian said in press releases, their idea for the "true Sith" was a faction completely unconnected to the Sith Order founded by the Dark Jedi of the Second Great Schism who mingled with the Sith species. It was supposed to have been a group that built their empire tens of thousands of years ago.

This is just personal conjecture, but I do believe that there were going to have something to do with Adas and his legion of Sith warriors who defeated the Rakata, took their space vessels and conquered other worlds circa 28,000 BBY. I've posted my theories on the matter on these boards several times, and if I come across any of them, I'll be sure to link you to them.

In other news, I just finished the novel last night. I have to say that I quite liked the direction that Karpyshyn took. My only complaints are Revan's name and how he identifies himself, as I said before (after all, why did he not recall his original name when all of his memories came flooding back near the end of the book?), and the fact that
spoiler:
Revan dons his mask as a light sider. I've never liked this idea. To me, Revan's mask and familiar costume are identified with his time spent as the Dark Lord of the Sith. During the Mandalorian wars, they signified his continual fall from grace. They don't belong on a redeemed Revan, in my opinion.


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YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:27 PM   #114
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I decided to avoid the boards here until I read the book for myself, and I'm glad I did. I finished the book earlier this week and absolutely loved it, with a few minor complaints here and there that weren't substantial enough to ruin anything for me.

As for Revan's mask
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My main issue with the book was with the Emperor's ability
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This book has got me even more excited to play TOR now, which was almost definitely the goal in releasing it. I hope there's more interaction with Meetra and Revan to come.


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Old 11-30-2011, 09:55 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Gurges-Ahter View Post
I decided to avoid the boards here until I read the book for myself, and I'm glad I did. I finished the book earlier this week and absolutely loved it, with a few minor complaints here and there that weren't substantial enough to ruin anything for me.

As for Revan's mask
Show spoiler


My main issue with the book was with the Emperor's ability
Show spoiler


This book has got me even more excited to play TOR now, which was almost definitely the goal in releasing it. I hope there's more interaction with Meetra and Revan to come.
About TSL & the Novel

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Old 11-30-2011, 10:21 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurges-Ahter View Post
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spoiler:
Yes, I mentioned that. I also said that, at that time, it signified Revan's gradual fall from grace that he experienced as a schismatic Jedi. At the end of KOTOR Revan is pretty much a shining beacon of pure goodness, so it doesn't jive (although in the book he seems to have fallen away from that somewhat, being more of a Gray Jedi, and even calling upon both sides of the Force simultaneously).


I use spoiler tags instead of hidden tags. I'm old skool like that.


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Originally Posted by a silly noob View Post
YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
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Old 12-01-2011, 04:01 AM   #117
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So is Revan basically in some kind of stasis before the start of TOR?
Here's a sneak peek at him:

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Old 12-01-2011, 05:10 AM   #118
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Here's a sneak peek at him:

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You should look back a few posts, I posted some in game photos. BTW, where did you get that photo?
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:32 AM   #119
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Ah sorry, missed that.

The pic is one I rendered myself. I ripped the model from the game assets.
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Old 12-01-2011, 10:19 AM   #120
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Ah sorry, missed that.

The pic is one I rendered myself. I ripped the model from the game assets.
No need to apologize, I was mearly pointing out what I had already contributed.

That's really good! I don't suppose I could get you to further render the image to include his torso, to use as a future avatar? When you have free time of course.

@Topic: This novel seems to be getting a lot of mixed reviews. Would love to see what the results would be on a poll.
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