KOTOR 2 Storyline questions [SPOILERS]

[JCarter426]

Originally Posted by Rtas Vadum

I don't know if she will say it for sure every time(especially if you spare Atris), but Kreia(or at least, the impression of her in the holocrons), mentions...

"One of the Sith Lords has come to Telos. You know why he has come here. And if he is not stopped, here, now, then he shall lay waste to the planet."

That could mean Sion, but it's lilely Sion would only be after Jedi, and would not concern himself with the station. Which leaves only Nihilus, who is obviously more likely to lay waste to the planet, given what the Exile would know of Katar.

That happens after you've already gone to Telos in the first place.

Originally Posted by Rtas Vadum

Where else would it be? It might be suspect at that point, but in some ways, where else would Nihilus choose to attack? As far as the game itself goes, you only hear about Katar, and that's it. He hasn't went after anywhere else, to to anything similar. So he obviously had the need to quell his hunger, along with needing a place to do so. How exactly he would've heard about Telos(beyond Tobin specifically telling him), I can't say, but it's either that Kreia actually tells Tobin the information regardless of who the Exile sides with, or...well else I don't know.

Kreia only tells the Exile the Sith are even going to attack at all in the dark side version. Obviously the Sith have been destroying worlds and such, but the line suggests a certain, imminent attack, and there really isn't any evidence for it.

Originally Posted by arsenalforever

And how did the Ebon Hawk even reach the Academy? I thought the codes were only with the Handmaiden?

I think the codes are part of a cut subplot, like the HK factory; best ignore the whole thing. And I agree Atris probably wanted the Exile to come to her anyway.

If we side with the Queen on Onderon, there is a cut scene of Kreia telling Colonel Tobin to tell Nihilus to attack Telos and that there is a Jedi Academy there, but if we side with General Vaklu, who tells Nihilus to attack Telos? And why would Kreia want Nihilus to attack Telos?

The scene isn't in the game at all, it was cut. So I don't get your question.

Nihilus could not sense the Jedi Council meeting on Dantooine (when they tried to strip the Exile of the Force) because it was difficult to sense Force Sensitives on such worlds, then does that make Telos any different?

In all likeliness, yes. Kreia describes it as "a place hidden from the galaxy, like the academy on Dantooine" and calls Atris clever for choosing it.

And when Atris asks Kreia who she is, Kreia says "I am the one who ordered him to be exiled". Is this true?

That was also cut from the game. I believe it was cut for a reason, rather than due to time constraints like many of the other cuts; Avellone has admitted they went through several different drafts of the story and removed things they didn't feel were working. Kreia and Atris were completely different characters, originally.

It was the loss of lives that left a wound in the Force, not the severance of ties by the Exile.

Wounds happen all the time, it's how you react to them that matters. The Exile chose to sever their connection to the Force, rather than succumb to the wound's corrupting power. It may have been a subconscious choice, but it was still a choice. Kreia sees it as the Exile choosing to retain his/her identity rather than become a pawn of the dark side. A light sided Exile chose to turn away from the force out of fear of what the dark side would do to him/her, and a dark sided Exile had no choice but to give up his/her power in the same way the ancient Sith Lords chose not to develop Nihilus' hunger.

Atris also says: "These Sith are spawned of you, spawned of the Mandalorian Wars... all those deaths, all those Jedi"

So the Sith DID learn those techniques from the Exile?

Atris blames the Exile for everything that happened in the Mandalorian Wars. And she's right to some extent; had the Exile not entered the war, the course of events would have turned in a different direction. That doesn't mean the Exile is personally responsible for everything that happened, though. Even if the Exile is - indirectly - responsible for creating the wound at Malachor, the wound that Nihilus and the other Sith feed on, to blame the Exile for everything they do with that power is still not fair. The Exile could have done the same thing, but chose not to.

Atris said that Kreia was waiting at Malachor for the Exile, where she intended to create another echo that would deafen and kill all Force Sensitives. I wanted to ask, that how she intended to trigger another echo? By making the Exile kill her at the heart of Malachor? Then she succeeded didn't she?

No, by then she just wanted the Exile to kill her to succeed her; the master must kill the apprentice.

In order to kill these Force sensitives, an echo of a magnitude similar to the one created by the Exile at Malachor must be triggered, and Kreia thought that the magnitude of the echoes created due to her death at the hands of the Exile at Malachor would be enough to kill the Force Sensitives? Surely not?

No, I don't believe so. Her death might have been necessary for the sealing of the wound at Malachor, but I don't believe it was ever part of her plan for destroying the Force.

And Atris said that if the Exile did not follow her to Malachor, she will kill herself, resulting in the death of the Exile as well. Did she mean this or was it another one of her lies? I think she was speaking the truth, because if she killed herself on Malachor, the Exile would be caught unprepared and would die of the pain too (like on Dantooine (dark side version))

Who knows? Kreia's obviously a hypocrite and a liar, but what she does takes some serious guts. Would she kill herself just to prove a point? Wouldn't surprise me.

Well Kreia said that if echoes like the one the Exile created were created in succession, it would lead to the death of all Force sensitives. But I think the magnitude of these echoes are not all the same.

Obviously, the magnitude of the echo created by the activation of the MSG is much larger than ones created by small acts of charity or cruelty.

"From the smallest of actions, the smallest of cruelties and kindnesses, great tragedies are made."

If she wants to kill Force Sensitives, she would have to come up with a better plan that would create echoes of a larger magnitude right? If she wanted echoes, she could've just let Nihilus consume Telos lol

That uh... that was the plan. The fate of the Republic depends on Telos. The fate of the galaxy depends on the Republic.

But I don't think she really had a plan to destroy the Force. The galaxy isn't ready to give up the Force, and there's nothing she can do about it. Hell, even Kreia couldn't give up the Force. But she can help the only person who has made the choice to do so. Perhaps it's just that - a choice. You can't force it upon anyone, let alone the whole galaxy. And perhaps the galaxy will choose to give up the Force due to the Exile's influence. Someday.

[arsenalforever]

Even if the Exile is - indirectly - responsible for creating the wound at Malachor, the wound that Nihilus and the other Sith feed on, to blame the Exile for everything they do with that power is still not fair. The Exile could have done the same thing, but chose not to.

Nihilus and the Sith feed on Force sensitives, not the wound created by the Exile right? They themselves are wounds.


Her death WAS a part of her plans to end the Force right? She wanted the Exile to kill her, which would send out echoes (whether this plan was a sound one or not is a different matter).

Her death might have been necessary for the sealing of the wound at Malachor, but I don't believe it was ever part of her plan for destroying the Force.

Why would HER death seal the wound at Malachor? She has nothing to do with Malachor right? It's the Exile who's related to Malachor. And it is the destruction of Malachor that sealed the wound, not Kreia's death right?

[JCarter426]

Originally Posted by arsenalforever

Nihilus and the Sith feed on Force sensitives, not the wound created by the Exile right? They themselves are wounds.

I only meant it in the metaphorical sense. They learned their power to feed on Jedi from the wound.

Her death WAS a part of her plans to end the Force right? She wanted the Exile to kill her, which would send out echoes (whether this plan was a sound one or not is a different matter).

No, I don't believe so. I believe she wanted the Exile to kill her because she views that as an apprentice's final test. Even if she wants to kill the Force, Kreia believes in the Sith teachings to some extent. It's also a bit of an ego trip, as it's the goal of any teacher for their student to surpass them; when you're someone who can kill people with your brain, killing you is the only possible proof. Twisted, I know.

Why would HER death seal the wound at Malachor? She has nothing to do with Malachor right? It's the Exile who's related to Malachor.

She was Darth Traya once. She was the headmistress of the Trayus Academy. She taught Sion and Nihlius there. She taught Revan, who designed the wound there, the wound that corrupted all his followers. She's very much connected to Malachor.

And it is the destruction of Malachor that sealed the wound, not Kreia's death right?

Well no... mainly it's the Exile facing Malachor. The destruction might be a part of it as a final act to completely wipe out the memory of what happened there, to forget the past and look to the future. But Kreia's death serves the same purpose, on a more personal level.

[arsenalforever]

Kreia says " I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve so measure of balance, when countless lives are lost"

What does this mean?

Yes, but with her goal of getting rid of the force, she teaches her student to use it. Perhaps it does go along with her ideal of using the force like a poison, but given that the Exile would rely heavily on the force, it should be obvious to anyone that the Exile would fight against such a goal, dark or light.

But the Exile does not rely heavily on the Force? If he did, he wouldn't have been able to sever his connection?

[JCarter426]

Originally Posted by arsenalforever

Kreia says " I hate the Force. I hate that it seems to have a will, that it would control us to achieve so measure of balance, when countless lives are lost"

What does this mean?

Well, what is Star Wars about? Wars. IN SPACE. With Jedi. For thousands of years, powerful Force users have fought each other in horrible wars on a galactic scale. The Jedi claim the Force controls everything, that it's trying to reach a balance.

The Force must be a real ****, surely.

I also think that Kreia doesn't like the idea of being manipulated in any way, since she takes pride in her ability to manipulate others. But the Force uses everyone. If you believe in an energy field that connects everyone, and controls their destinies, it can seem like the universe is conspiring against you. In a sense, everyone in the galaxy is manipulating Kreia! Must drive her wacko.