Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge - Ultimate Talkie Edition Projekt

[mehdi.moha]

any update ?

is anybody alive here?

[Elaine2012]

I too would like an update on this. i noticed monkey island 2 se has converted roland music of some kind in "classic mode" which sounds like the cd audio of monkey1 but when I try this installer i only get the soundblaster music which is inferior. Is there anyway of putting this music in place of the soundblaster music? i could play the original monkey2 se but then loose out on the scummvm pixel smoothing and subtitles getting in the way!

Really enjoying MI1 original gfx with speech though - great job!!

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by Elaine2012

Is there anyway of putting this music in place of the soundblaster music?

Use MT-32. Either a real one or an emulator. ScummVM comes with an MT-32 emulator. You need the MT-32 ROMs, though.
This requirement won't change in the final version, either.

You might also try ScummVM's ability to translate the MIDI to GM. Depending on your wavetable, this can sound rather good too.

[Elaine2012]

Originally Posted by LogicDeLuxe

Use MT-32. Either a real one or an emulator. ScummVM comes with an MT-32 emulator. You need the MT-32 ROMs, though.
This requirement won't change in the final version, either.

You might also try ScummVM's ability to translate the MIDI to GM. Depending on your wavetable, this can sound rather good too.

but since the audio is on the se version, surely that's not using mt-32 otherwise it wouldn't be playing, so it must be just the music converted into some other audio format much like the cd audio version of MI1 was?

[Jenni]

It's not that simple. It's not a case of simply playing an audio format. The Special Edition of Monkey Island 2 completely changes the way the music is played in the actual executable file. The original used iMuse, which played digital music and was able to change the way the music played on the fly. In order to simulate this with samples, the team at LucasArts had to specifically record instrumental music in different sounds in order to make it seem like the music is changing as it did in the original version of Monkey Island 2. They had to specifically program the ability to interact with the original scripts to play the right samples at the right time for the special edition. There's no way to repeat this in ScummVM without some major programming work.

[Elaine2012]

Originally Posted by Jenni

It's not that simple. It's not a case of simply playing an audio format. The Special Edition of Monkey Island 2 completely changes the way the music is played in the actual executable file. The original used iMuse, which played digital music and was able to change the way the music played on the fly. In order to simulate this with samples, the team at LucasArts had to specifically record instrumental music in different sounds in order to make it seem like the music is changing as it did in the original version of Monkey Island 2. They had to specifically program the ability to interact with the original scripts to play the right samples at the right time for the special edition. There's no way to repeat this in ScummVM without some major programming work.

ah i see. thanks for the explanation. one thing i don't understand by that explanation however is how scummvm is able to play the music in the se at all? but in sounblaster mode instead of the "mt-32" music that is heard in classic mode? I didn't even think the original soundblaster music even existed in the se? All i hear is the new music in "enhanced" mode or the "mt-32" music in the classic mode. I'm guessing the installer just creates copies of the original files of the game and somehow just gets it to play the voices on top by creating a monster.sou file?

I wish lucasarts just made a decent remake to begin with that allowed you to turn off subtitles in classic mode and edge smooth like scummvm does then we wouldn't have this trouble lol! - a native android port would have been nice too!

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by Elaine2012

I didn't even think the original soundblaster music even existed in the se?

The resources are all there, just like they were in the DOS version. The only reason you don't hear them in the SE is, that the executable doesn't support them.

I'm guessing the installer just creates copies of the original files of the game and somehow just gets it to play the voices on top by creating a monster.sou file?

It's not just copying but also patching many script, which involved much work to make this possible. The monster.sou would be completely ignored by the engine with just copying the original files.

Apart from the music, this works rather similar to the MI1 ultimate talkie edition. You may read that thread, if you are interested in all the details we went through: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=199288

[mehdi.moha]

so what will happening ?

is there any hope to have even version 0.3 ?

someone answer please , we all are old man and don't want to ply it when i'm dieing

[moturimi]

Can someone provide the MI2 Talkie Builder for me?
I am not able to download the file from the provided link in this post.
I receive an access violation on mediafire. Am I the only one who receives such errors?

Thank you so much.

[OzzieMonkey]

I've been encountering a few problems in both talkies that don't seem to be mentioned at all as far as I can see, and I was hoping you guys could help me out:

Voice hiccups - lines of dialogue don't get time to finish before another one starts; this doesn't happen with every line but when it starts, it happens more frequently after that point. Sometimes one line will just have a pause with no sound and I'll get the end of the line, for example "How appropriate, you fight like a cow" might change to ".....like a cow". Note that I'm playing without subtitles on.

Game specific bugs:
MI1 - After haggling the price of the ship down to the right price with Stan, the option to make an offer of 5000 pieces o'eight is not available.

MI2 - After getting the winning number for the spinning wheel on Phatt Island from the hand in the door puzzle, the option to pick that number is not available.

I'm not sure why this is happening, but any help would be greatly appreciated.
PS: I'm playing both games on ScummVM, not DOSBox.

[Scummbuddy]

I believe that voice hiccups issue with at least the MI1 Talkie Project was "fixed" by setting the dialog/text speed of the in-game options to be very fast.

That may or may not apply here, but it could be something to play with.

Edit* I didn't notice that you also mentioned your issues in the MI1 Talkie thread...

[OzzieMonkey]

Thanks, I'll try it out. As for the other bugs, I know the workaround for each, but it would just be nice if I didn't have to do the workaround and the options just appeared. I found that if I threaten to leave with Stan twice, I'll get the option, and if I solve the hand puzzle twice, I get the option there, it's just a nuisance and I'd like to avoid it if I can.

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by OzzieMonkey

MI2 - After getting the winning number for the spinning wheel on Phatt Island from the hand in the door puzzle, the option to pick that number is not available.

Could it be, that this kid just bet on the number you got? If that is the case, just knock on that door and ask for a new number. Remember, the guy behind the door tells you, that he fixes only one number at a time.

[OzzieMonkey]

Originally Posted by LogicDeLuxe

Could it be, that this kid just bet on the number you got? If that is the case, just knock on that door and ask for a new number. Remember, the guy behind the door tells you, that he fixes only one number at a time.

Hmm, that's odd. I've never heard the guy behind the door say that he only fixes one number at a time. Is there a specific dialog option I have to pick in order to get that response? Either way, thanks for such a fast reply

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by OzzieMonkey

Hmm, that's odd. I've never heard the guy behind the door say that he only fixes one number at a time. Is there a specific dialog option I have to pick in order to get that response? Either way, thanks for such a fast reply

Just ask him for the next number twice without leaving the place in-between, and you should get that line.

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by moturimi

Can someone provide the MI2 Talkie Builder for me?

Here it is: MI2_Ultimate_Talkie_Edition_Builder_0.2.zip

[henry11235]

Originally Posted by LogicDeLuxe

Here it is: MI2_Ultimate_Talkie_Edition_Builder_0.2.zip

Has anyone else experienced this error while trying to run the MI2 talkie builder? It is able to extract all the initial wav files, then creates the CHF_97..., and vx112... wav files, and then gives the following error:

mixing special case samples.
The system cannot find the path specified.
'..\sox is not recogniszed as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file....

Then is not able to creat the temp1 or temp2 wav files, and then get a similar error:

patching scripts
'MI2_ResExtract' is not recognized as a command file...
'bspatch' is not recognized as a command file...

I was able to use the MI1 talkie extractor without any problems. I am running windows 7 x64.

Thanks.

[imhere]

I know it's not possible to play the game in ScummVM with the new music, but is it possible to extract the soundtrack? I can extract all the .wav files with Monkey Island Explorer, but that's too much, I'd like only the main themes (28) as shown by the soundtrack player in the Special Edition. Has anyone written down some kind of mapping or correspondence?

[imhere]

nevermind, Monkey Island Music Extractor does it for me (I have the DVD bundle).

[OzzieMonkey]

I'm just wondering, if there are plans to continue this project and release another update, would it be possible to incorporate ambient tracks to areas without sound, similar to the first MI? I'm aware of the complications with iMuse, but if there's no music going on in a scene, surely that's workable, yes? Some areas of the game (like the intro discussion with Elaine) feel quite empty without sound and something as simple as beach sounds/birds chirping in certain environments would really help. I understand that you guys don't want to add too many changes since the point was to enable the original game with speech, but I think that this kind of change is worthwhile.
EDIT: Just looked through the thread, and this idea has been brought up before Still, I believe it's something important that can be done in a new build of the talkie now that pretty much all the dialogue AFAIK has been given voice without any major hiccups.

[keropi]

first of all thanks for making those ultimate talkie editions, they rock!

unfortunately I am having severe problems running those on a real DOS pc with a LAPC-I + SB16 (made a pentium1 pc for old DOS gaming some 3 years back and it's the first time I get this behavior).
Both original DOS MIs play fine as every other DOS game I've thrown into the machine.
The talking builders complete without errors (image with both games's files + crc32) and I get games that work on DOSBOX and on my 486DX2 pc. But on the p1 I get severe SB problems and freezes.
I tried disabling both L1+L2 caches (so I get a pc that is slower than a 386DX) , tried leaving ~14MB of free ram under the first 16MB and even tried putting on the pentium the 8bit sound blaster that my 486 has.
I still can't make them work, roland music works fantastically but the sb part suffers.

* If I use roland+sb , music is fine but at some point during speech the game will freeze. Color cycling of the cursor will still continue , music will continue but controls/keyboard are frozen. A reset is needed.

* If I use sb-only then the game just make some horrible "music" coming from the FM chip and strangely enough speech is OK. A reset won't help here , the game/pc works but until you do a power-cycle you can't get rid of the sb's sounds.

I made a video of this behavior (showing MI1 , MI2 has the same behavior):

YouTube Video

Is there a chance of squashing this bug? I must stress that the pc has no irq/dma/hardware problems, I have ~100 games installed (my whole originals collection -> gallery link) and never had this problem, only speed related ones on older titles that get solved with slowdown utilities.
I'll be more than happy to provide more info/testing if the creators decide it's worth checking, thanks in advance!

edit: made further tests, if I disable only L1 cache then the sb driver works. Still I get the freezing. I also put the sound buffers to 64 , I could delay the freezing but eventually I got it again.

edit2: made more tests, run the game with KGB in the background keeping a log on activity, nothing important and the game just access monkey.001 as usual when the freeze happens
I also substituted the games directory to S: so I run the game from "fake" S: in case there was a problem and the game did not like the c:\games\mi1se path... made no difference too...
Last thing I did was run the game with GM music, still no difference

[keropi]

Well, after testing with 3 different mobos that use the VIA MVP3 chipset I have concluded that the freezing occurs when one uses a PS2 mouse on the onboard ps2 connector!
With a serial mouse the game never freezes, no matter how hard I try or for how long I play.
With a ps2 mouse it's just a matter of spending some time clicking like hell on the sleeping pirates (thus you hear a piece of dialog that restarts on the next click without delay).

I have no idea if there is a workaround for that PS2 mouse problem, I can only assume that the game doesn't like the ps2 port's address/irq on MVP3 chipsets or it's general implementation...?

[LogicDeLuxe]

If you suspect an issue with the Ultimate Talkie Editions, you should check if Indy 4 talkie (or its self running demo) has the same issue. Then, it is most likely a problem with the executable and the sound drivers coming with it.

The Adlib music issue is usually a too fast PC. This also can lead to hanging notes on midi devices. So disabling CPU cache is always a good idea for old LucasArts adventures.

I have a similar DOS PC (Pentium 200mmx with a VIA chipset and Award BIOS) and encountered those issues occasionally, but never found a fix that worked every time, unfortunately. I don't have a PS/2 mouse but a serial mouse connected to it (like you usually do on AT boards), so it can't be just that. I found, when I run the game from within Windows 95, then it runs fine most of the time. Sometimes, I get crackling speech, but no game hanging like in pure DOS.

Maybe the game doesn't like some drivers (probably mouse and/or sound). It should be possible to play through it, as I tested it successfully on that PC along with others.

[keropi]

thanks for the tips, I will check indy4 and report...
I did try to run the game from 98SE (forgot to mention that) and I got the exact same freezing but this time due to windows I could alt+tab my way out of it....

In regards of drivers the SB16 does not use any... just an init program on startup (not a pnp card btw) or nothing at all... and I also tried with the 8bit SoundBlaster, it only needs the BLASTER variable.
And for mouse I used either ctmouse or MS's mouse.com... I even tried without a mouse driver installed, in my case if you have a mouse plugged in the mouse port then it somehow causes this... maybe it's the mouseport's IRQ12? or it's mem address?

[keropi]

well, unfortunately indy4 behaves the same... freezes/locks ( kinda differently though, if you wait a little it can unfreeze but fail after a while again, this time permanently)... even with the update patches and icache to disable L1 , it does not work well... maybe it's a chipset thing after all , never really played the "talkie editions" ...
I will try the chipset theory tomorrow with a slot1 intel-based machine and a 233mhz PII

edit: did a test without a mouse connected, I could not make monkey2 freeze but indy4 just rebooted my pc during the intro dialogues...
I never knew lucas stuff to be so picky on hardware!

[LogicDeLuxe]

I also use ctmouse, no problem with that, it seems.
I just figured out, the problems appear for me when I use SB IRQ 7, but they disappear completely if I change it to IRQ 5. For me too, none of the other games on that PC have this issue.

[keropi]

^ that's very strange because the SB16 that I use (CT-2230) uses IRQ5 by default (like all sb16s, DMA=1 , HDMA=5 , IRQ=5 , PORT=220 and MPU=300 so roland has 330)
Also in BIOS/PNP page I have assigned all relevant irqs/dmas to ISA-Legacy ...

Didn't get the chance to test on the PII system today....

[keropi]

slot1 test was a failure... I found no way to disable L1 or L2 caches on my 440BX mobo and ofcourse with a 400mhz PII the sb sound was terrible... didn't bother to test more since I could not really trust the result with such a speedy machine

[LogicDeLuxe]

Originally Posted by keropi

slot1 test was a failure... I found no way to disable L1 or L2 caches on my 440BX mobo

Cache can be disabled in software. Try this: http://www.gratissaugen.de/files/cache.zip
It has to be executed in DOS. It is not Windows compatible (although Windows can be slowed down by just executing it before loading Windows).

[keropi]

yeah, I've been testing on pure DOS... all the cache enable/disable utils I tried just locked the machine (a 440BX based) , will try the ones you linked and report back

[Huz]

This thread should have special WWWBoard styling applied to it to enhance the late-90s feel. IRQs! SoundBlaster 16! DOS! Amazing stuff.

[keropi]

I don't think anything can be done to fix the problems in real dos machines, the original engine is problematic even unaltered... I gave up at this point :/ , don't have anything else to test...