lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: X-Wing Collector's Edition Problem
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 05-29-2013, 05:31 AM   #1
forbarteronly
Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8
X-Wing Collector's Edition Problem

Hello,

I'm having a quite strange problem, which I have not discovered earlier, maybe because of never having finished the game. I hope somebody can help me solving this problem. Here's what happens:

I'm playing X-Wing Collector's Edition currently, the DOS version in German. On a DOS machine. The only thing I had to do so far is applying a slowdown tool on one of the historical missions, where the cruiser never hypers out, maybe some of you know about that problem. I forgot which mission it was. Once slowed down, all was fine. Anyway, everything works fine. Or so I thought.

I have battled my way through tours 1 to 4. No problems so far. Now here's the problem:

When I reach Tour 5 Mission 2 where tugs have to dock b-wings, this just doesn't happen. Instead of docking the b-wings the tugs head home into their hangar and nothing happens. When you use Alt-R to check the tugs' status all say 'heading home'. There seems to be nothing I can do, even if I finish the mission, shoot down the star destroyer, even after a long time, no new tugs appear to finish the mission.

When I use the TopAce pilot on the disc to play that mission in the historical section, the same happens, tugs head home. Seems the topace uses the same script, just has technically clearance for all missions.

I checked even YouTube, where found a playthrough of that mission, it is the DOS version, but it is the English one. There, shortly after the mission starts the tugs dock and everything is fine. The player there doesn't use Alt-R in the video, but I bet there you get 'proceeding with mission', at least anything but 'heading home'. They dock, all hyper out in the end, mission complete.

I could post more details about my system here, but I don't think my PC is the problem, I tested the mission with different speeds, didn't change anything.
I have plenty of memory available, I don't think it is a memory problem. I think it is rather a broken script file for that mission. Maybe if I will have time I will check behavior with less memory, but currently I am too annoyed to do so. Luckily I got an XMS eater.

Checked the web, but didn't find anything related. If there was a patch for my budget release it is not available anymore, as even the publisher is no more. There are no patches on LucasArts' helpdesk for the CD-Rom release.

I identified that file on the CD. If I could find the mission files from the English disc, which works fine on YouTube, I could exchange these files on my disc and probably after 20 years finish the game. But I do not own the English disc, and I do not want to buy one just for one mission. After all, I already own the game.

Would be the simplest solution to the problem, if somebody is willing to help me out with this. Maybe somebody here had the same problem as me, knows how to solve it differently. If so, I appreciate any help.

Many thanks in advance!
forbarteronly is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-29-2013, 02:13 PM   #2
forbarteronly
Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8
Alright,
it's me again. I have already figured out the problem. Seems my edition of the game is faulty. As I checked the mission file with X-ED the tug group was set to board and deliver cargo to another group but the group was not defined. So once I added that information, updated my CD with the new file, it suddenly works!
Tugs do what they are supposed to do, and I can finally finish the game.

I'm just posting this info in case anybody ever runs into the same or similar problem as me. This editor really works like a charm, can recommend it.

Why my edition really is faulty is a mystery to me.

Thanks to anybody who looked into this thread.
forbarteronly is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-31-2013, 12:24 AM   #3
Darth Avlectus
If Sunday you're free...
 
Darth Avlectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Why don't you come with me...
Posts: 4,276
Current Game: Poisoning pigeons in the park.
Hi buddy, Welcome to LucasForums! We're glad you joined us!!!

Err, as to your posting of your specific query, maybe try taking it to a subforum more suited to deal with this specifically? ...Or maybe a mod could move this here?

http://lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=110

Sorry I can't be of help to you. But indeed, feel free to post away and chat with other members here. Enjoy your stay here.

I'm no staff member, BUT I suppose I can help you with basics of LF. Maybe a few tips here and there about the groups on some subforums and their etiquette (I.E. Yoda's Swamp in the Jedi Knight section).

Cya round!!!


We'll murder them all, amid laughter and merriment...except for the few we take home to experiment!

"I cant see S***! --YOU GO TO HELL!" --Tourettes guy
Darth Avlectus is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-20-2013, 01:56 PM   #4
LouisdeFuines
Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 9
I have the same problem.

I would really appreciate a solution for the german Version. :-)
LouisdeFuines is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-20-2013, 03:50 PM   #5
forbarteronly
Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Avlectus View Post
Hi buddy, Welcome to LucasForums! We're glad you joined us!!!

Err, as to your posting of your specific query, maybe try taking it to a subforum more suited to deal with this specifically? ...Or maybe a mod could move this here?

http://lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=110

Sorry I can't be of help to you. But indeed, feel free to post away and chat with other members here. Enjoy your stay here.

I'm no staff member, BUT I suppose I can help you with basics of LF. Maybe a few tips here and there about the groups on some subforums and their etiquette (I.E. Yoda's Swamp in the Jedi Knight section).

Cya round!!!
Sorry if my initial post was in the wrong subforum, did a quick search in my case, but couldn't find anything related, so if moderators want to move it, go ahead.

Maybe sometime later I will find the time to become more familiar with this place. Currently I am too busy elsewhere, but I'll be back!
forbarteronly is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 06-20-2013, 03:54 PM   #6
forbarteronly
Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisdeFuines View Post
I have the same problem.

I would really appreciate a solution for the german Version. :-)
Just sent you a message with details of what I did. Have a read.

If anybody else has the same problem, it IS solvable, but it is also quite work intensive. Has nothing to do with Emulation, like DOSBox, etc. So don't waste time there.
forbarteronly is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #7
SirG
Lurker
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1
Hi Folks,

I have the same mysterious issue with mission 2 / duty 5. Seems that none of those tiny little ships could enter the B-wings or to say it with other words... the B-wings can't be captured.
Have you a valid solution available?
I heard in another forum that "fixed missions" are somewhere available ?!
Or a patch?

Please advise!
Thanks in advance and regards
SIrg
SirG is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #8
Wildstar
Can outbowl most of you
 
Wildstar's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brockton, MA, USA
Posts: 1,505
10 year veteran! Forum Veteran LFN Staff Member 
If you're running Collector's CD-ROM in DOSBox, try slowing down the clock speed in the DOSBox settings...33 Mhz should work well enough. X-Wing 95 (the Collector Series edition for Windows) should have fixed this problem, as well.


Wildstar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-25-2013, 02:10 PM   #9
forbarteronly
Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildstar View Post
If you're running Collector's CD-ROM in DOSBox, try slowing down the clock speed in the DOSBox settings...33 Mhz should work well enough. X-Wing 95 (the Collector Series edition for Windows) should have fixed this problem, as well.
Well... I have just replied to him, as I stated before very likely the problem cannot be solved by a slowdown. I have looked into the files, likely in his edition it's the same error, e.g.

Goto X to deliver Y and head Z.

The problem here is that the X variable is left blank because a programmer/translator was clumsy, which means that the rest of the loop is being processed, which results in the tugs heading home into their hangar. You cannot complete the mission then, as the B-Wings only hyper out if they received their pilot. That loop isn't triggered at all. Cannot happen.

Regarding speed issues as such, I have looked into ALL mission files of X-Wing. If the problem is as described above no slowdown will ever do.

I have played around with the missions where a slowdown helped. The solution to all missions which needed slowdown was rather simple:

I found that the missions where slowdown is necessary suffer from what I call 'overcrowding'. Sounds funny I know, what I mean is that too many actions (loops) are triggered by one event/at a single moment. E.g. 5 mins into mission appear group X,Y,Z. If the speed is too high some calculations must return a division by 0, which in old days was the runtime error 6003 halting the whole computer. Just in X-Wing's case the game didn't crash, just events didn't happen, which resulted in the mission being unsolvable. At least until the calculation was slower, no division by 0 then, and all good.

I solved this more elegantly, as I splitted events, making X appear after TIME, Y appear n seconds after X and again Z appear n seconds after Y. Logically all groups appear at the same time on the clock, but it's less crowded, which made all missions even work at very high speeds. The ship was unplayable but all loops happened as they should. Ships appeared, did what had to do, left, or were shutdown as I was unable to fly the ship at that speed.

I know what I write is very technical, but it's the solution, my DOS PC has 400 MHz if not slowed down... at 200+ MHz all scripts still worked, which according to your statement, need 33 MHz, should be impossible. The problem isn't the speed as such, has something to do with X-Wing's engine, but I don't have that detail. Slowing down the internal clock is another possible workaround. But I was too lazy to always slow down my CPU for certain mission, been then bored, and found the solution.

Hope this detailed info solves some mysteries.

I use the original DOS Collector's Edition of X-Wing, however if the Windows 95 port was 1:1 (besides dropping the iMuse system) it's likely also applicable there.

Last edited by forbarteronly; 09-25-2013 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Addition of information
forbarteronly is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-26-2013, 03:14 PM   #10
Wildstar
Can outbowl most of you
 
Wildstar's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brockton, MA, USA
Posts: 1,505
10 year veteran! Forum Veteran LFN Staff Member 
Yeah, the problem is with the original X-Wing engine, b/c it had speed-limiting code (not sure what that was supposed to help with), but, at very fast CPU speeds, it introduced bugs such as the one described and one in one other mission (not sure which one, but also from TOD V) where a CRS never hypers out. Using a utility to actually slow down the CPU might help if setting the speed in DOSBox doesn't.

FYI, the Collector Series version of X-Wing (for Win9X) used the X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter engine, so wasn't affected by this bug.



Last edited by Wildstar; 09-26-2013 at 03:20 PM.
Wildstar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-26-2013, 03:48 PM   #11
forbarteronly
Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildstar View Post
Yeah, the problem is with the original X-Wing engine, b/c it had speed-limiting code (not sure what that was supposed to help with), but, at very fast CPU speeds, it introduced bugs such as the one described and one in one other mission (not sure which one, but also from TOD V) where a CRS never hypers out. Using a utility to actually slow down the CPU might help if setting the speed in DOSBox doesn't.

FYI, the Collector Series version of X-Wing (for Win9X) used the X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter engine, so wasn't affected by this bug.
Yeah, they always used kinda the most up to date engine, the Collector's Edition of X-Wing (DOS) uses the Tie-Fighter one, except for the SVGA and other updates not in use by X-Wing. Question always is, how well it is adjusted. Such ports can cause further troubles.

I've been always playing the DOS versions, keep 'prehistoric' hardware here, and a couple of joysticks. Just stress free. Install, play. Okay, sometimes there's EMM386 errors, but I know how to get around these and sometime when I'll be bored I'll set up a multi-boot start menu for DOS again. Currently only 2 games I play use EMM386 so I start these by boot disk.

Came across this mission you mention, too. When I checked the file with X-Ed (the editor I used) there was a flag missing, without it the cruiser cannot jump out, no matter what. One flag set and it went home as was meant to.

Another mission (or is it the same),also pretty buggy is similar, except there at least in the briefing is mentioned Y-Wings should launch later and attack the imperial frigate. Think they arrived 2:30 in mission. Just the Calamari jumps out so fast (within 1 min?) that never ever any Y-Wings launch (as they are timer triggered) ... so I adjusted the mission, put the hyper out point further away, so that Y-Wings get to launch, as otherwise the mission is a little dull. At least in my opinion. And as it is mentioned in the briefing now it's the way it should have been.

Haven't played the W95 version, but I found that many errors aren't existent in the original English release, I have the German localized version. The graphics are better, and I like the additional frame around the targeted ship, better visibility from a distance. Wing Commander had that from day one.

I wonder if there'll every be a really good space sim. Okay, Star Citizen is in the making, but I think effect isn't the same, remember the first games with Sound Blaster support. Polygons, though it looked like crap, made you only 'wow'.
forbarteronly is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-27-2013, 01:23 PM   #12
Wildstar
Can outbowl most of you
 
Wildstar's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Brockton, MA, USA
Posts: 1,505
10 year veteran! Forum Veteran LFN Staff Member 
I do remember the old mission help pages (the ones on the old CRS Liberty site were excellent, and Red Squadron had some on the old CRS Morning Star site, as well), and one of them on one of the sites I mentioned parenthetically said something about using the utility MoSlo to correct the bug in T5M2 (shorthand for the mission we're talking about), but that probably doesn't work in modern versions of Windows or even in a DOS emulator (I believe MoSlo was a DOS utility).


Wildstar is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-27-2013, 02:19 PM   #13
forbarteronly
Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8
I used the X-Wing Combat Flight Instruction. It's very good.

You're right, Moslo can do the trick if the error isn't in the script itself. Sometime I'll just for fun check how many errors the localization company introduced into X-Wing and Tie-Fighter. Wonder how they could introduce such errors, all there was to do was translating briefing screens/in flight messages/cargo of ships etc. Really not much. At least the original scripts for missions should remain untouched. I think with structural changes, the original engine is not too bad. Remains at least perfectly playable at ~166 MHz.

One mission in Tie is so screwed, you will not believe it, but there are parts from the original LucasArts' editor help file and other crap in it. The filesize is 160kb if I recall correctly, while the clean file (which I rebuilt) has only the usual 5-7kb per misssion. Mission still works, but as was buggy and impossible to edit, had to rebuild.

Then there's loops like 'Z arrives if Z is hit'. One mission in Tour 2 of X-Wing, the only where you can attack an ISD without launching of TIEs. Clearly the loop should be Z arrives if ISD is hit'... couple of similar errors are in it. So I guess I own the only almost perfectly bugfree edition of X-Wing.

Almost, because the localizers screwed up the ranks. When you access the registration screen it says e.g. Captain... and in the pre-flight roster it says Colonel (the 2 letter abbreviation) and vice versa. And one or two spelling errors in the Historical Missions title screens.

If somebody could change it, would be great. I don't know which file it is, one of the LFDs, there's even an editor for most of that, but doesn't work with my localized file, editor says it works up to X-Wing 1.2 while I have 1.5 in German. Just crashes.

If anybody has good knowledge of these, I can send you the original file, tell you what to do. Or name me an editor which accepts all kinds of LFD files, where to get it, I can try to fix it myself.
Not important, though it would be an accomplishment to finish it with 100%.

Regarding Moslo:
It's not even the best utility for it. There is a Windows version, too. So it might even work. But it causes lagging with X-Wing and Wing Commander. I found AT-Slow is much better once you get the slowdown rate right, it uses increments from 1-1999 instead of percentage. So it differs depending on CPU and speed, but once you got it right, it's really good. Almost perfect. Can use percentage if your CPU is supported, which mine isn't. Tried almost all of them. No lagging at all with AT-Slow.
forbarteronly is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > XWingAlliance.net > 1. XwingAlliance > Tech Center > X-Wing Collector's Edition Problem

Tags
desperation, mission bug, problem, tour 5, x-wing

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:06 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.