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Old 02-27-2004, 05:37 PM   #161
rccar328
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No... that, sir, is peaceful activism.
So, according to you, showing a total disregard for the law is not a push toward anarchy? You have to be a conservative extremist murderer/terrorist (or support them) in order to spread anarchy? Subtle anarchy is still anarchy. Just because these people aren't blowing up buildings or killing abortion doctors or aren't complete racist wackos doesn't mean that they aren't totally disregarding established law in an effort to subvert the majority of our nation.

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but this is based on the kids that don't drop out, get kicked out, or are otherwise discharged from their programs.
Once again, personal choice. They may choose to drop out, to break the rules & be kicked out, or leave for some other reason, but it's their choice!

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I don't know... It seems to me that the two can occupy the same space & time.
True...but once again, that doesn't mean that what's going on in SF and other cities isn't anarchy.

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But such blatant displays of disregard for law such as bombing federal buildings and abortion clinics has a better chance of creating anarchy since the ability for law enforcement to operate to peak efficiency is more impeded by emergency responses related to these disasters than by issuing citations to those that throw rice in the wrong place at a gay wedding.
What about law enforcement agencies being rendered impotent by political correctness? What about law enforcement agencies that are afraid to act because if they do, the liberal vocal minority will tear them apart & condemn them for upholding the law?

I am in no way defending the aryan nation or other conservative extremist terrorist groups, but the fact that their actions are more extreme does not justify less-extreme lawbreaking. This is not an argument over whether conservative lawbreaking outweighs liberal lawbreaking. Any lawbreaking is wrong and should be stopped.

America has changed since the Civil Rights Movement. This current trend of lawbreaking is irresponsible and unneeded. There are too many legitimate ways of working within the law in order to change the law to justify breaking the law simply because a group disagrees with it.

Like I said earlier, if gay marriage supporters had worked within the law to change the law, and they succeeded, I may not like that law, but it would be the law. As it stands now, though, it isn't the law, they are breaking existing law, and their lawlessness is spreading across America, which is an act of anarchy.


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Old 02-27-2004, 09:09 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by rccar328
So, according to you, showing a total disregard for the law is not a push toward anarchy? You have to be a conservative extremist murderer/terrorist (or support them) in order to spread anarchy? Subtle anarchy is still anarchy. Just because these people aren't blowing up buildings or killing abortion doctors or aren't complete racist wackos doesn't mean that they aren't totally disregarding established law in an effort to subvert the majority of our nation.
So do you think back when Rosa Parks refused her seat on the bus to a white person she was pushing our country into anarchy? Because that's just silly.
Civil Disobedience
I recommend you read that and then tell me what you think.

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When they insist that society be forced to redefine marriage to sanction same-sex unions, they are attempting to establish new and special rights.
No, they are attempting to establish EQUAL rights as heterosexuals. They dont' want anything special, they want what EVERYONE ELSE IS GIVEN.

It used to be the law that voting was only for men. The original deffinition of voting excluded women. Was giving women the vote a push towards social anarchy?



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Old 02-27-2004, 09:51 PM   #163
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Originally posted by ET Warrior
No, they are attempting to establish EQUAL rights as heterosexuals. They dont' want anything special, they want what EVERYONE ELSE IS GIVEN.
I partially agree with you. They should get civil unions for the equal rights, but marriage itself would be reserved for religious bindings.



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Old 02-28-2004, 12:45 AM   #164
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Originally posted by Tyrion
I partially agree with you. They should get civil unions for the equal rights, but marriage itself would be reserved for religious bindings.
Every world culture has an institution of marriage. It is, therefore, a domain of society not religion. Religous organizations should be free to have norms / taboos regarding marriage, but ultimately, governments should have the final say on what is legally considered marriage.

By calling it "civil union" and giving all the rights of marriage, you still have marriage. Marriage is but a word.


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Old 02-28-2004, 02:17 AM   #165
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Interesting, I heard today that they are trying to make woman cells, impregnate woman, and have succeeded, and are studying it. Personnally, I think the child will:
  • Have Defects, due to the SAME (or genes, from the same sex, but possibly another woman) being passed on
  • Have pschiological damage when he/she (probably a she) finds out, they were made in a lab, and put back into the mother

Basically, they are trying to make woman asexual. That means that lesbians can get married, and have kids. Is this ethical?

Can a male be born with this process? Considering the male sperm, or something, determine the sex of the child, what determines it? Is it like those parents who decide there childs sex, hair color, eye color, height, and intellegence? Is this ethical?

People dont believe in God, so why are they trying to be God? Is this ethical too? I mean, cloning human embrios in Korea, is taking things a little too far.

You guys cry "seperation of church and state" when you see anything christian, and you say it has offended you. And theres a law passed dictating what the church and can and cannot do. (Pasters were visiting a school, during a lunch break, talking to a youth group, that no one had to attend, but its not allowed anymore, the pastors had been going there for about 11 years, and not one complaint was filed, but the principal, or someone important said it might offend someone, so, its not allowed anymore) Is this ethical? Moral? I mean, its not like the pastors actually went up to people, and tried to force the religion on to them.

They allow abortion, the mother is allowed to kill her own child, when there is an alternative (adoption) (Even after the child is born, before the first breath, I think, the doctor can stab the child's head with a pair of scizzors, as ive heard) Of course, im sure a child can feel that. Even if the child cant feel, it is alive, maybe it cant think.. but its alive, nevertheless. It just depends on the mother to keep it alive. But people are allowed to kill it. (Of course, Roe (from Roe Vs. Wade) has now changed her mind on the case, a bit late but... never late than never. Homosexuality, is considered immoral, by several people, but is allowed. Whats the point?

When Christianity offended people, they even ripped down statues of it. They took it out of everywhere... except Churchs.

When Abortion and Homosexuality offends a christian, its as if it doesnt matter. Now, when a christian, or anyone for that matter, opposes homosexuality, it gets basically..... (whats the word im looking for?) i cant say ignored.. its far from ignored.. but.. maybe not taken seriously? Why is that?

This is ironic... some of you have said (maybe not in this thread) that you think homosexuality is immoral, and wouldnt participate in it. But you defend it. I understand how you want equal rights for all people. But immorral, is immoral! I mean, its like trading bad for bad, to acheive good. It cannot be done, if you understand what I mean. Because people's rights have to be equal, you allow abortion, and discrimination against God.

Try to overlook any weird errors, im like really tired... and dizzy... thats what happens when you spin around in a chair a lot... maybe thats why I went off topic so much too, but im trying to relate it all to the discussion, even though i didnt quote any of you

I searched through the "500" (quoted from rhett) smilies LF had, and couldnt find a tired one. I thought this one was cool, so here it is:
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Old 02-28-2004, 04:15 AM   #166
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Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
People dont believe in God, so why are they trying to be God? Is this ethical too? I mean, cloning human embrios in Korea, is taking things a little too far.
If they don't believe in God, then they aren't BEING God, they're just using science to do waht they can

Plus, your listed problems are just guesses. You dont have any evidence.



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Old 02-28-2004, 04:23 AM   #167
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Well rccar, by many of your statments about anarchy and what it is, I'd like to ask you a few questions...

So gays are peacefully being wed in San Fransisco, and that is an anarchist movement in your definition. So by that, Rosa Parks was an anarchist for breaking the law and not moving to the back of the bus, correct? Martin Luther King Jr was an anarchist for forming several civil rights parades, even after the police told them to stop, correct?

Please, correct me if I'm wrong but your perspective is, for lack of better term, bigotry.
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Old 02-28-2004, 05:07 AM   #168
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Originally posted by SkinWalker
By calling it "civil union" and giving all the rights of marriage, you still have marriage. Marriage is but a word.
But that's why Christians dont want gays to have marriage- marriage is a sacred word to them, while civil union isnt.

Again, I dont quite care as much as the name of the union- just as long as gays get the same rights.

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This is ironic... some of you have said (maybe not in this thread) that you think homosexuality is immoral, and wouldnt participate in it. But you defend it. I understand how you want equal rights for all people. But immorral, is immoral! I mean, its like trading bad for bad, to acheive good. It cannot be done, if you understand what I mean. Because people's rights have to be equal, you allow abortion, and discrimination against God
I wouldnt participate in eating spagetti- I absolutely hate it. Does that mean that I believe no one should eat spagetti? No.

And I dont mind abortion- as long as the baby cannot feel the pain, I think that it's on the same level as using birth control and abstaining from sex.



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Old 02-28-2004, 05:45 AM   #169
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So by that, Rosa Parks was an anarchist for breaking the law and not moving to the back of the bus, correct?

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So do you think back when Rosa Parks refused her seat on the bus to a white person she was pushing our country into anarchy? Because that's just silly.
HA! Beat ya to it



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Old 02-28-2004, 01:27 PM   #170
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1. polygamy isnt just "one man - many women". it would work the other way around, too. polygamy itself is NOT disempowerment of women and girls. polygamy is a "multi person relationship" and a relationship does/ must/ should not include the disempowerment of someone.
also "polygamy" has nothing to do with religion.
if two men love one women (and she loves them too) or vice versa there is no problem with it. if everybody who is involved is fine with it, there is no problem.

This is all true in theory, but its not the reality of polygamy. And the practice of polygamy is almost exclusively tied to religion. Women and girls are forced to marry men in many cases. How is that not disempowerment?


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I've never seen "gay" and "straight" bathrooms. Or water-fountains. I've never heard of a gay person being arrested for trying to eat in a restaurant with straight people. It's true that there has been some violence, but I've never heard of authorities turning fire hoses and unleashing dogs on gay pride parades.

What I've seen is people beaten to death specifically because they are gay. Do you understand this? Beaten to DEATH. You don't see police turn fire hoses on Gay Pride parades because they are only in San Francisco and New York, places where homosexuality is accepted on a much, much higher level than the rest of the country.

But you have a point when you say this is nothing compared with the civil rights movements of the 60's. This is nothing. This should not even be an issue, and that is my real point. We as Americans have so many larger problems to deal with, that Gay marriage, and gay rights shouldn't even be an issue.

I really don't like the way Bush is running things anymore, I did for a while, but he's just getting a little too right wing for my tastes. What he needs to focus on is the slumping economy. Then again, he probably brought this whole gay marriage thing to the front burner so hopefully everyone will forget what a dismal economy he's been running. I think it's time for Bush to go. he came in handy when we needed him, but slowly he's going to remind us what an idiot he really is.


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Old 02-29-2004, 01:59 AM   #171
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If they don't believe in God, then they aren't BEING God, they're just using science to do waht they can
Fine, why are they trying to alter nature?

And of course there guesses, I said "I think..." They are still studying it. Theres no way to know right now.
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Old 02-29-2004, 03:45 AM   #172
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Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Fine, why are they trying to alter nature?
Do you take medicine? Then you alter your natural production of white blood cells.




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Old 02-29-2004, 04:41 AM   #173
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Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
Fine, why are they trying to alter nature? .
So you don't take medicines, or believe in surgery? How about buildings? They are altered nature. Scyscrapers sure aren't natural structures.



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Old 02-29-2004, 05:46 AM   #174
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You guys are making that point because we see the ludicrous nature of that line of thinking, plus: we don't believe lukeskywalker1 goes that far (I know I don't).

But there are many in the United States that do. My posts in the bible thread that InsaneSith started clearly demonstrate the ambiguity and errant nature of the christian religious documents, yet people cling to fallacies surrounding the "literal truth of every word."

I'm not knocking the christian religion here, in fact I have a great respect for those who practice christianity in general. But its the fundamentalist perspective on the christian dogma that is dangerous to our society.

There are those within the United States that firmly believe that they should abstain from modern medicine because it's "playing god."

It is because humans have challenged the authority of civil and religious rulers that democracy has emerged: women have been emancipated; child labor laws have been enacted; private ownership has expanded; and the benefits of adequate food, clothing, shelter, and loving care have touched more people than ever before in history.

I pointed out that "fear" is what drives fundamentalists of christianity (or any religion), but it is specifically: the fear of having their beliefs challenged and the threat that this poses to their belief systems that drives the fundamentalist.

The bible must be inerrant, or what is to keep the flock from straying to other belief systems? -or so they seem to believe.

Never mind that the bible was created using many of the stories and myths in existance already in the Near East and that its authors followed the same pattern of creativity present in nearly all primitive human cultures (which was the case for the cultures that the biblical/"priestly" authors lived in): explain the unexplainable through the use of supernatural forces.

There is much wisdom in the christian bible, as there is in many sacred texts and oral histories. I advise anyone interested in learning about themselves to read these texts. But to base the ethics and moralities of the modern day on those of a few primitive cultures, 2000 to 6000 years ago, is ridiculous and unrealistic.

To suggest that marriage between two people of the same sex violates a religious belief and doctrine is fine. The church doesn't have to recognize the marriage.

But churches don't have the express right to marriage. Marriage is a human concept that appears to go back to early hominids of 2.5 million years ago. Christianity wasn't even a blip on the radar then. Every culture of the world has a concept of marriage, even cultures that have no religious doctrines (or I should say "culture" since I've only ever seen one without religion).

To say same-sex marriage threatens society is a baseless hypothesis. But as a hypothesis, it can be tested. The more likely hypothesis is that same-sex marriage will augment a society that allows it, since the combined incomes and legal benefits of marriage create economic stability and market advantages (homes are bought, insurance policies taken out, families established, etc.).

To hypothesize that same-sex marriages are the beginning of anarchy is ridiculous as well. There is no evidence to support it.

To hypothesize that same-sex marriage will increase the moral decay of the country is, again, ridiculous. There's no evidence to suggest that crime rates will increase, in fact, it is likely that they will decrease since more families means more stability, etc.

To hypothesize that same-sex marriage will create a rash of homosexuality or increase the populations of those that want to try the "homosexual lifestyle" also has little merit. There has been no conclusive evidence one way or the other that homosexuality is or isn't "chosen" by the individual, but there is more evidence to suggest that homosexuality isn't chosen than is.

The only threat that I see posed by same-sex marriages is to the fundamental theistic belief systems. These systems don't like to be called into question and the believers refuse to question their own documents in spite of the numerous inconsistencies and parallels to Near Eastern mythologies.


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Old 02-29-2004, 06:00 AM   #175
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Originally posted by rccar328
[B]Once again, personal choice. They may choose to drop out, to break the rules & be kicked out, or leave for some other reason, but it's their choice!
Agreed. They chose to drop out, etc. But the point is, the faith-based programs are liars. They are not 80% effective as some claim to be. The goal should be to develop programs that help the majority of the community serviced and not a select minority. THAT is where my program differs from them. We actually count the total number of youths serviced in our numbers and still have the best recidivism rate.

Faith based programs are ineffective. Period. Moreover, they are a wast of taxpayer dollars.

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Originally posted by rccar328
True...but once again, that doesn't mean that what's going on in SF and other cities isn't anarchy.
What's going on in SF is a far-cry from anarchy. I've seen far closer definitions anarchy in some of the world's more wretched reaches... these places didn't include women in business suits or men in colorful, flowing garmets holding hands.

People casually walking past a partially decapitated person slumped at the wheel of his car on the street with a cigar extinguished in his brain seemed a little more like the definition I have of anarchy when I try to picture it.

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Originally posted by rccar328
I am in no way defending the aryan nation or other conservative extremist terrorist groups, but the fact that their actions are more extreme does not justify less-extreme lawbreaking.
No. But is seems to indicate that there are more serious things to attend to in this country than impeding the civil rights of those with whom you disagree. Interestingly enough... those sites that I linked are to organizations that have been around long before the same-sex marriage issue.


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Old 02-29-2004, 06:00 PM   #176
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I just wanna say that SkinWalker is so cool...

And did rccar delete a post because I got confused..?
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Old 02-29-2004, 06:09 PM   #177
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marriage

allright i would have to say that i am very much again'st same sex marriages.

One of the main reasons for this is my religion. I am a christian, i go to a christian church.

I do think that marriage is supposed to be between a man and woman only.

See I would like to point out one thing. God made Adam & Eve, NOT adam and steve.

Thx you for your time



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Old 02-29-2004, 06:09 PM   #178
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Originally posted by Kain
And did rccar delete a post because I got confused..? [/B]
I was quoting his last post at the top of this page... I don't think he deleted any.

But this thread is long enough that I should capture the thread in Acrobat... I once debated a pseudoscience issue on a science board and, after 5 or 6 pages, the main opposer deleted all but his very first post. All that was left was the quoted material and it effectively wasted two months or so of debate.

Not that rcarr328 is someone I think would even consider that, but I learned to archive large or "hot" threads after that.


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Old 02-29-2004, 06:17 PM   #179
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Re: marriage

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Originally posted by hgwall44
See I would like to point out one thing. God made Adam & Eve, NOT adam and steve.
But I'd like to point out that science has demonstrated a very likely evolution of hominids that doesn't appear to include the sudden appearance of Homo sapiens from a supernatural source. Moreover, the various mythologies present in the Pentateuch set a pattern of literary license used by the "priestly authors" to adapt Near Eastern myths and stories... so, in all likelihood, the Adam & Eve story is concocted or adapted.

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Originally posted by hgwall44
Thx you for your time
Thx for posting!


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Old 02-29-2004, 06:18 PM   #180
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Re: marriage

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Originally posted by hgwall44
See I would like to point out one thing. God made Adam & Eve, NOT adam and steve.
And I would like to point out that this country was created because people wanted the freedom to practice their own religion free from government. So the laws of our country cannot be based on the rules of one religion, even if it is the dominant one.



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Old 02-29-2004, 06:22 PM   #181
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So you don't take medicines, or believe in surgery? How about buildings? They are altered nature. Scyscrapers sure aren't natural structures.

No, I take medicines. Medicines and structers can benifit, and help people. Women impregnating other women, cannot help people.
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Old 02-29-2004, 06:27 PM   #182
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Originally posted by lukeskywalker1
No, I take medicines. Medicines and structers can benifit, and help people. Women impregnating other women, cannot help people.
Why not? Two lesbian women who want a child of their own, from their own genes, who is truly THEIR child would certainly benefit from this.



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Old 02-29-2004, 08:34 PM   #183
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Originally posted by Kylilin
This is all true in theory, but its not the reality of polygamy. And the practice of polygamy is almost exclusively tied to religion. Women and girls are forced to marry men in many cases. How is that not disempowerment?
of course this is disempowernment in any case, but there are also women forced to marry in bigamist marriages. also i think sometimes there are both sides, man and woman, forced to marry, for familar reasons or whatever. i dont consider these problems "polygamous" or "bigamous". i'd consider it depending to how the together of man/ men and woman/ women and the "tradition" of family is tought. and that again may be dependend to the religion or society.


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Old 03-01-2004, 11:47 AM   #184
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I had the pleasure of attending the first gay marriages of New York State, in the small town of New Paltz, where I go to school. It was a lot of fun, and it was wonderful to see so many happy people. The crowd gave a very heartening cheer when the mayor announced the first marriage complete and one of the couples raised the certificate in his hand.

Woo woo, I was there for history!


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Old 03-01-2004, 06:11 PM   #185
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Maybe if we didn't have a president blinded by his faith and had a far more open minded one (y'know, not an idiot), then none of this getting angry at gays in San Fran and New York would be going on. I say less southern presidents (okay, so I'm stereotyping that southerners are overly religious, sue me)
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Old 03-02-2004, 03:29 PM   #186
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Some new perspective...

First off, I'd like to address the comparison of the current gay marriage situation and Rosa Parks.

There is one fundamental difference - when Rosa Parks violated the law, the law was enforced. I'm not saying that the law was right, but it was the law.

The difference in San Francisco is that there has been no enforcement of the law. The mayor of San Francisco swore an oath to uphold the law. So did the Attorney General of California. They have not upheld their oaths. That is why this is anarchical while what Rosa Parks did was not. She violated the law. She was arrested. Then, she appealed her case to the Supreme Court and got the law changed.

__________________________________________________ __

Finally, I'd like to address the President's speech about the Constitutional amendment. Despite whatever Rosie O'Donnell may think, the President's speech was anything but hateful. He spoke very calmly and said what he wanted to say. He didn't say it in a hateful way, he just said it.

But all that aside, there is a reason for the amendment that goes beyond (and is much more important than) gay marriage, and the President addressed it in his speech.

He was talking about judicial tyranny. We've seen more and more judges legislating a liberal agenda from the bench. If these judges are going to continue to legislate from the bench, then a Constitutional amendment is the only recourse left.


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Old 03-02-2004, 03:54 PM   #187
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If I say "I hate gay people" in a calm way, then the "hate" word dissapears? (Of course he didn't say that, I'm just trying to make a point).

If Hitler said "Kill the jews" in a peaceful way, it isn't hate?


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Old 03-02-2004, 06:46 PM   #188
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Of course he didn't say that, I'm just trying to make a point
No, he didn't. Despite what you may think, it is possible to disagree with homosexuality without hating homosexuals.


Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
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Old 03-02-2004, 09:15 PM   #189
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and how can that be possible? If you don't hate them, there'S no reason to stop them...


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Old 03-02-2004, 09:52 PM   #190
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For me (I can't speak for the President), it's because I believe that homosexuality is sin, and I care about people enough to encourage them to turn away from sin.

(I know, you probably don't buy it, but there it is.)
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Old 03-03-2004, 03:58 AM   #191
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First, the SF episode of the Mayor marrying same-sex couples was definately not anarchy in the common sense of the word.

The mayor broke the law in a routine fashion, but this does not make it anarchy. Perhaps the act was leaning towards anarchy, but in the common sense of the word, one expects the majority of a population to disregard the majority of the laws in routine fashion.

The mayor's actions were less "anarchical" than the 5:00 o'clock drive in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex, where traffic laws are considered to be "traffic guidelines."

In addition, the mayor is being held accountable by an attorny general who has cited him for multiple counts of performing marriages without license. The criminal justice system in action is not symptomatic of anarchy... so can we agree to get past that point?

Second, I agree that the President did not sound hateful in his speech, rather just repeating the rhetoric expected of the "religious right" that the Republican Party panders to. The introduction of the same-sex marriage issue is very obviously a campaign tactic (albeit one with some risk) and I can't blame the President for using it. I probably would.


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Old 03-03-2004, 05:36 AM   #192
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The union of a man and woman is the most enduring human institution, honoring -- honored and encouraged in all cultures and by every religious faith. Ages of experience have taught humanity that the commitment of a husband and wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society.
Lies. Not all religions and cultures are restrictive of gays.
Also, many cultures dont' have monogamy, some have a man marry two or more woman, or vice versa.

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After more than two centuries of American jurisprudence, and millennia of human experience, a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization. Their actions have created confusion on an issue that requires clarity.
I see no confusion over marriage of same sex couples, It's hardly a unclear thing. two guys, or two girls, get married, can't be more "confusing" than a man and woman getting married.


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Marriage cannot be severed from its cultural, religious and natural roots without weakening the good influence of society
Marriage is held in different regards, in different societies, therefore you cannot restrict it to one standard, as I have stated before. And allowing gay marriages will not doom society, if anything, as skinwalker has said many times, it will help it.
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America is a free society, which limits the role of government in the lives of our citizens.
werd.

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This commitment of freedom, however, does not require the redefinition of one of our most basic social institutions. Our government should respect every person, and protect the institution of marriage. There is no contradiction between these responsibilities.
wrong, there is a contradiction, you either allow all freedoms given in the constitution itself or you don't have all the freedoms. This institution of marriage is nothing but religious right rhetoric.

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We should also conduct this difficult debate in a manner worthy of our country, without bitterness or anger.
I am inclined to agree.


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Old 03-03-2004, 06:04 AM   #193
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Originally posted by rccar328
For me, it's because I believe that homosexuality is sin, and I care about people enough to encourage them to turn away from sin.
Being born is a sin. Having sex is a sin. Living your life is full of sin. I don't care how righteous you are, you're doing something bad in someone's eyes no matter WHAT you do. Eating meat on a Friday is a sin. Saying God is a sin. Having a large crucifix in the front of a church is a MAJOR SIN, and don't say it isn't because the 10 Commandments say NO IDOLIC WORSHIP.
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Old 03-03-2004, 06:14 AM   #194
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I was just somewhat curios Kain, if you do not mind me asking, but why do you defend gays so strongly? In general, the best straight guys simply don't care one way or another. Why do you defend them so strongly if you arn't even gay?
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Old 03-03-2004, 06:24 AM   #195
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I was just somewhat curios Kain, if you do not mind me asking, but why do you defend gays so strongly? In general, the best straight guys simply don't care one way or another. Why do you defend them so strongly if you arn't even gay?
Why do you "dislike" them so much? Same principle, we (me and kain, and others like us) see others as equals and not as horrible "hated by god" mutations.


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Old 03-03-2004, 06:33 AM   #196
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I don't have red hair, but I will speak out against anyone who ridicules my red-headed friends, or, for that matter, the red-haired people I don't even know.

I don't particularly like hockey or NASCAR, but I will respect the desire of another to watch or participate and not judge them for their "sports."

Perhaps Kain is like-minded in these respects and sees an injustice in the vile attacks against those who are homosexual by the so-called "religious right."


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Old 03-03-2004, 07:21 AM   #197
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Maybe its not that I'm defending gays as much as I'm pointing out that Christianity is so stupid for saying care for all but hate gays.

Or maybe its that I have a few gay friends who might get ridiculed alot for their preferences by people like you, Hiroki.

Maybe its because at one point or another in my life I may have had homosexual feelings.

Perhaps its because all my life I grew up around homophobes and, being the black sheep I am, didn't feel the same as everyone else.

It could be that I had faith in God and believed whatever the pastor told me, but when I realized that there couldn't be a single God, I figured everything that 'He' said was false.

Maybe I considered the fact that over the past 2000 years, that book you put so much stock into has been altered by all kinds of different people, all with their own prejudices and hatreds.

But the simple truth, Hiroki, of why I defend homosexuals so strongly, is because I'm sick of the bashing. I'm tired of the hatred. I hate that admitting you're gay can get you beaten to death. I've heard too many stories of gays being beaten, stabbed, shot, and flat out murdered because of their sexual preferences to just sit idlely by and let people like YOU AND THAT IDIOT BUSH tell them that they can't have the same happiness that you can have with your lover! I can't stand it that its politically correct among high school students to bash the hell out of gays just because they're different.

So Christianity is the biggest religion in the U.S.A.? That doesn't make it right. If majority meant correct, then blacks would still be killed on hearsay. If this was 40 years ago, Hiroki, and this was a debate on the Civil Rights movement, which side would you be on?

These people are still human. As such, they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Or maybe you missed that lesson?
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Old 03-03-2004, 01:55 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hiroki
In general, the best straight guys simply don't care one way or another. Why do you defend them so strongly if you arn't even gay?
Why do you care if I go around murdering Chinese people if you aren't even chinese? Would it bother you if I told your black friends (assuming you have some) that they need to get back in the cotton fields? I care because they're HUMANS just like us, and as humans they should be treated the same as everyone else.



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Old 03-03-2004, 04:44 PM   #199
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Maybe its not that I'm defending gays as much as I'm pointing out that Christianity is so stupid for saying care for all but hate gays.

Its not Christianity thats stupid, its some of the people who represent it today.

Or maybe its that I have a few gay friends who might get ridiculed alot for their preferences by people like you, Hiroki.

I figured you had a few gay friends. And I don't go around ridiculeing gays. If they hit on me, I'll 'hit on them' if you get my point. But otherwise, I don't bother them, and I would never, ever, beat one with a bat, or murder one.

Maybe its because at one point or another in my life I may have had homosexual feelings.

Umm...TMI

Perhaps its because all my life I grew up around homophobes and, being the black sheep I am, didn't feel the same as everyone else.

Fair enough. Compared to my family I'm quite nice to gay people.

It could be that I had faith in God and believed whatever the pastor told me, but when I realized that there couldn't be a single God, I figured everything that 'He' said was false.

Um, why can't there be a single God? You didn't actually give a reason for that.

Maybe I considered the fact that over the past 2000 years, that book you put so much stock into has been altered by all kinds of different people, all with their own prejudices and hatreds.

Yup. Can't deny that. Its been altered alot over the many years by men, not God. Well, the Bible actually states that if you alter it, you're damned, so I hope it brings relief that they're in hell right now...unless that was an altered part too. o.O

But the simple truth, Hiroki, of why I defend homosexuals so strongly, is because I'm sick of the bashing. I'm tired of the hatred. I hate that admitting you're gay can get you beaten to death. I've heard too many stories of gays being beaten, stabbed, shot, and flat out murdered because of their sexual preferences to just sit idlely by and let people like YOU AND THAT IDIOT BUSH

Ouch! Hey, I'm gonna have to kill you for pairing me with Bush...I defenatly consider that a flame.

tell them that they can't have the same happiness that you can have with your lover! I can't stand it that its politically correct among high school students to bash the hell out of gays just because they're different.

Yes, its wrong for highschool kids to beat them, and maybe they should be allowed to be with each other, infact, I like that idea, the more they are with each other, the less they are with me...

So Christianity is the biggest religion in the U.S.A.? That doesn't make it right. If majority meant correct, then blacks would still be killed on hearsay. If this was 40 years ago, Hiroki, and this was a debate on the Civil Rights movement, which side would you be on?

If it was 40 years ago, I would be with the Blacks, becouse the treatment of them then was inhuman and cruel, and just flat out wrong.

These people are still human. As such, they are endowed with certain unalienable Rights, among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Yes, they're human, and they have thoughs rights, so there, we agree.

Or maybe you missed that lesson?

No, I didn't miss the 'lesson' And I didn't miss the flames eather.
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:51 PM   #200
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One thing that REALLY makes me dislike gays is how touchy they are if you say even the slightest homophobic thing. Even in jest! If you mutter one little almost hardly noticable word, every gay, and gay-supporter on this forum runs and tries to bite your head off for it. Why do you guys over react so much?!
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