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Old 03-24-2004, 10:17 AM   #41
El Sitherino
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Quote:
Originally posted by leXX
So it would ok for me to use this as an avatar then?...

While I didn't particularly care for the avatar of the bouncing breasts, I put up with it, just as I would put up with this one. Also Taboo is the effect that drives sexuality, in some cultures breasts aren't a big deal and are shown without tops. While I have not grown up in those cultures I still have no problem with naked breasts. I still found it to be a bit low in tact. I was able to pull of a chuckle at the bouncy av and even the mr bean groin avatar. Some things I just find unneccesary to fight over, While I repect what you say leXX, it is hard to overcome these stereotypes of being a starwars girl, someone can't also forget hman nature that people are people.
I was glad to see it gone considering this is a family forum.

also one cannot argue marijuana as it isn't illegal everywhere. Nor is it considered a major problem everywhere. however the growing line thinning of what is deemed socially acceptable when it comes to sexuality. it's hard to make a judgement. I'm not sexist but I won't let myself fight over flopping breasts or a gyrating penis.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:19 PM   #42
Ray Jones
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firstly.. I DO RESPECT and ACCEPT and will NOT nor WANT to question the decision that this kind of avatar (or PICTURE, in general) is not appropriate to this forum (hey, and i might even AGREE!), and it might just have looked somewhat silly and offensive, what also may depend to a certain point of view.

i think we all agree that basically noone has the right do degrade anyone. men not women, vice versa and withing the same sex too.

also RESPECT seems to be the main issue here. it is NOT very respectful to "use" naked/ bouncing or whatever breasts for advertising for beer, for instance. using it in a (senseful) way for an advertising fo sport-bras could be considered another thing.
but i dont see a huge lack of respect in that picture, there is no porn link, there is not "dirty" thing said on it and no "women are NOTHING" written somewhere. heck, it is some (nice?) drawn piece of art, the kind of useless crap art, but still not a reason to put sexist, feminist and respectless comments on the plan.

another point: there are persons who like to display themselves or get displayed as "sexual objects" and some not.
there are some who are offended by nearly-naked breasts and some by breasts under a shirt but without a bra, some may even be offended by "printing through" panties or spots in the face. others hate thongs. some like mayo on their sandwich and some not.
ALL and EACH of them have to deal with each other from BOTH sides.

now to the children.
i am father of a girl myself and i am "feminist" if you like to call it so. means: i do not agree with MOST of the male members of human society, man i even think my toenails will curl up when i hear what many men are actually really seem to be thinking about women. it's just disgusting sometimes.
and i do my best NOT to teach any of those views to children regardless if boys or girls, although i am sometimes afraid that is not enough. but i rather TALK openly about sexuality and know that my daughter can handle a picture of BOUNCING BREASTS proper than trying to keep her away from stuff like that, so that she probably will get some kind of "misinformation" from whoever. because there is one thing for sure: sexuality will be part of her life and it's her parents damn job to make sure that she will know what's going on. and no, that does not necessarily means she will have sex at the age of 11. it probably means that she will not think that a tampon can be used as a contraceptive, even if there is this guy who assures her it can.

however, we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?

it is sooo easy to be personal offended. either by a (childish?) breast-av or by an (overrated?) anti-breast-av action.
and it's easy to break it down to arrogant, respectless and personal speechs about feminism, sexism and being pissed off, without even considering that this kind of polarizing is not helpful in any way but putting up the conflict and that both sides are SUPPRESSING the other sides opinions.
but beside those ALL-SO-TRUE opinions there are FACTS.

one of those facts is, that our whole existence is based on sexuality. and no matter who may find it, for what reason ever, offending, women do have breasts, men too, some like it, some not, and there are "p.s" and they generally "belong" into "v.s", no matter what it is called or considered or how it's seen as offensive.
that fact exists FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS now..

so perhabs we should start to face it with a healthy sense of intelligence and not behave like spanish inquisitors here.


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Old 03-24-2004, 03:19 PM   #43
edlib
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Quote:
If edlibs comments were to be addressed no nationalist signatures/avatars would be allowed either (check his avatar).
First: There's a big difference between Nazi symbology and most other nationalistic symbology due to the weight of history it carries around with it and the loaded potental it has to offend a very large group of people around the world due to the hate it carries behind the image.

Also: If someone had a legitimate problem with my avatar and expressed thier concerns eloquently enough to convince me that they were sincere, then I would change it in a heartbeat. I'm not in love with it,.. it's only an image, and as such represents only a small fraction of what I like to think is my personality and ideals.

For the record: I chose this avatar (as well as my current sig) as a gentle and somewhat ironic jab at the current election-year politics my country is currently going through. It is also a bit of an existental protest to the current climate of government censorship on various media (of which Zappa was great defender against, and in my mind a true patriot)

(By the way... before anyone gets the idea of saying that it's ironic for someone who uses a very noted and vocal defender of free-speech as his avatar to defend the actions of censorship at an internet forum, be sure you know what the definition of free-speech in America is, and EXACTLY what it defends and what it doesn't.)

In the end it's just a picture, kids. If that's what you really want to see then I can point you to about a half a billion places on the web where you can look at bouncing breasts to your hearts' contentment.
But if someone else, (and even if it's only ONE other person,) who also posts here everyday has a legitimate beef with an image or expression used in your profile that offends them everytime they go by one of your posts, then it shouldn't even be a question about changing it to something else. (Unless you are really only here to get in other people's faces and provoke them. In which case you should simply be banned, since that is NOT what this place is about.)


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Old 03-24-2004, 03:48 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by leXX
When did I ever say it was sexist to like breasts? Why don't you actually read a thread before you post in it.
Actually, it's fairly easy to move to this conclusion (on how you think) from your text.




Quote:
Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.
If I need character references to make this comment I will get them, however, I'm extremely anti-Sexist/Racist/Ageist/etc.

on the same foot, feminists and other such groups who continue to campaign so militantly are equally ignorant and insecure/weak minded as the people they are campaigning against (we're all human, eh?)

Quote:
When did I call you racist and homophobic?
Not my argument but I'll grant the fact that I didn't see you call him racist or homophobic, however he, like I, most likely rate that in the same box as sexist.

BD being sexist is something I repeatedly have mentioned annoys me, and tried to get him to change on it...
But bleh.
Regardless, being more neutral than thou, (heh...HTTS?) I would easily say, it's not a huge leap.
Though, like I said I didn't actually see the words anywhere.


Quote:
...

A lot of words are being put into my mouth aren't they?

...
Well, maybe you should check the words you wrote below a little later on, being childish?
The avatars childish?
Anime is something in which is mainly viewed and enjoyed by young adults, and the split in male/female isn't actually as big as you would think (though it is fairly mainly male... but, tha'ts again down to socialist crap.. uhh... kinda like your socialist crap, but the polar opposite, though, you're just as bad as they are, and it's coming out that way as well, I will point out for the second time, in the same thread, that your behaviour, specifically in the next two passages, is COMPLETELY UNFIT For moderator behaviour).

Quote:
Anyway, I won't bother replying to the rest of it, because quite franky, I would just be repeating myself, and this thread has always been pointless.
Narukoto.
Avoiding my own points?
Since I am just about the only person you haven't addressed..... more or less?

Quote:
Go ahead and have your bouncing boobs if you feel so strongly about it,
I've only been here two days, and I feel strongly about one thing that's exclusively here so far, your attitude.
Again, as the more I disect this passage, it's completely, completely, coutner-moderator.. (I have been offered moderator positions for other forums, as major as MMORPGs, as clan forums, and as LAN Arena company forums, I currently hold three of those positions, and I am fairly well valued on each forum).

Quote:
but I will have every right to have my clothed wobbling penis avatar if that's the case (and STTCT will have every right to have her penis avatar),
Find one which is anime, and we'll talk about it.
Whilst this one is not real it's a different issue, however is someone posted with an avatar of a real girl/lady in a bikini or a cloth, or a kimono doing the same thing I would back your oppinion, and BD knows I'm not kidding with that, there are limits.
As I said above, the material you are discussing as offensive, sexual, and sexist, is obviously NOT rated that way by the people who do the certificates on the films and TV Series you watch, because serise similiar to that, don't have a high enough rating to be considered ban material, it's not all that contraversial, and it's not exploiting any particular person.

Quote:
and then we will see how far everyone will take it, and we will see just how pathetic this place can and will become.
Believe me, I've been on some of the worst and best forums on the web in terms of attitude, behaviour and other attributes you seem to value.
I will link you some in PM if you care to check, I don't wish to post them here out of respect for BD (Whom asked me to keep our relations to those other forums fairly seperate for a few reasons).

Quote:
If you want to spend the rest of your forum life looking at bouncing boobs and woobling penis's, so be it.
An avatar, is an avatar.
I have one specific avatar I use on most forums, I haven't directed this forums profile toward it yet because I would have liked you to have acknowledged that there are people who are arguing against you that don't particularly give a damn about avatar/sigpic unless they're within acceptable boundaries.
My normal sigpic for the forum I frequent the most these days is currently;
http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...elta/eyez2.jpg

With http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...lta/Naruto.jpg for a sig pic.

My last desktop background was;
http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...y_grade-01.jpg

My current backgrond;
http://www.banime.com/output/shaorin1024x768.jpg

Quote:
Yes, I'm being childish, no more so than the avatar's themselves.
No, you're being childish, the avatars inthemselves are not, since they are inanimate objects, and are incapable of being anything other than avatars themselves.
What they are, is what you make of them.
As you state here, your objective to them seems to me, to be childish, on the grounds of insecurity.

Quote:
Oh, and I'd like to thank Jed for realising that I'm being attacked simply because I'm female. =)
Irony considering my own comments....
It would be easy for me to proceed from this comment that all you are doing here IS pushing your own oppinion on other people and IS flaming BlackDove.

Please, maybe some deeper thought would be a good idea before a moderator is going to post their personal oppinions

Quote:
Since nobody has posted it yet, here is the link to the particular picture of this controversy. Keep in mind it may be offensive, but that's the whole point of this discussion anyways. Ultimately, the judgement of whether it is appropriate for this discussion is up to the mods, though the opinion of others should be taken into account
It is, and other oppinions should be taken into account, the moderators, are not here to serve themselves, they are here to serve the members of this forum, and they are here to keep the forum running smoothly, at this point in time I would be suggesting that, at least two, are doing the polar opposite.

Quote:
also one cannot argue marijuana as it isn't illegal everywhere. Nor is it considered a major problem everywhere. however the growing line thinning of what is deemed socially acceptable when it comes to sexuality. it's hard to make a judgement. I'm not sexist but I won't let myself fight over flopping breasts or a gyrating penis.
That's fine if you believe legality makes the difference, then you should be paying attention to the LEGAL rating that most anime containing content such as this avatar.
The only reasonable oppinion I have seen so far against it, has been one of the admins, whom wanted to keep the forums PG.
Meanwhile, others who are arguing it's sexist, and that's why they want it gone.

Sexist, heh.

Sexism to me is something I don't think lexx has ever seen, abuse of women (physical or mental) or men, simply because of which sex they are, sexuality is something different, sexuality in anime, heh, anime was originally meant to be, everything taboo, if you wanted to see some sexist stuff, I would post that, but considering how ignorant and how low your tollerance level for things seems to be I would consider you likely to throw up ¬.¬

So tell me, if a girl (as I have met a few who do) choose to use this avatar, are they sexist?
Heh, being unable to link profiles to these people as most of the forums I've seen these avatars used on have died out (as said before it's a fad, it comes, it goes).

Generally speaking, though, someone who finds animes sexist are really about as ignorant as they come.
I asked around, and, even on #animesuki (fansubbers irc chat channel) over on rizon.net -- only one person, in the whole group (80 anime insane users) had ever seen a single sexist remark in anime.

Scantily clad "perfect" girls, drawn a lot, but never actually in a sexist light, anime artists often like to tell stories with their anime and their focus is very rarely on sex (though there is a whole catagory that I avoid completely... about sex, from anime).

Quote:
firstly.. I DO RESPECT and ACCEPT and will NOT nor WANT to question the decision that this kind of avatar (or PICTURE, in general) is not appropriate to this forum (hey, and i might even AGREE!), and it might just have looked somewhat silly and offensive, what also may depend to a certain point of view.
That's fair, you state also that it depends on point of view.
one which you later profess is biased.
I continue to say I am neutral, and that feminists and sexists alike, annoy me, especially when they are militant, as seen in this thread.

However your post seems to be fairly well written out, and worth replying to.
(EG; not a flame on another person)
So I'll continue ;p
Quote:
i think we all agree that basically noone has the right do degrade anyone. men not women, vice versa and withing the same sex too.
I agree with that, however degrading people who are degrading people, makes both, wrong.

Though, in a way, I am again no better since I dispise both groups, but maybe I thought things through a little more because at least I understand the reasoning behind both groups and understand why hate is a relevent word.

Quote:
also RESPECT seems to be the main issue here. it is NOT very respectful to "use" naked/ bouncing or whatever breasts for advertising for beer, for instance. using it in a (senseful) way for an advertising fo sport-bras could be considered another thing.
but i dont see a huge lack of respect in that picture, there is no porn link, there is not "dirty" thing said on it and no "women are NOTHING" written somewhere. heck, it is some (nice?) drawn piece of art, the kind of useless crap art, but still not a reason to put sexist, feminist and respectless comments on the plan.
There isn't a huge lack of respect in that picture, I could find where it first came from with some effort but I would suspect you will find it's a fan of the character who is in a specific anime, she's a bouncy person with that kinda fluffy attitude towards life that you see in some animes.
It is a nice piece of anime (though it's not particularly highly detailed or high budget drawing (if it were I would be closer to rating it as anime, but since it's not, it's not meant to be drawn as a sexy anime babe, it's drawn as a fun one.
Which is how that character is portrayed (Rae = Fun gal).

Quote:
another point: there are persons who like to display themselves or get displayed as "sexual objects" and some not.
there are some who are offended by nearly-naked breasts and some by breasts under a shirt but without a bra, some may even be offended by "printing through" panties or spots in the face. others hate thongs. some like mayo on their sandwich and some not.
ALL and EACH of them have to deal with each other from BOTH sides.
Erm.. printing through? (dunno what you mean...)
However you're right those people who have differing oppinions should be able to deal with eachother.
Can you see that in the super mods posts?
I can't.

Quote:
now to the children.
i am father of a girl myself and i am "feminist" if you like to call it so. means: i do not agree with MOST of the male members of human society, man i even think my toenails will curl up when i hear what many men are actually really seem to be thinking about women. it's just disgusting sometimes.
Quite.

When I either idle in Yahoo chat (Teen Advice Line) on occasion (before the room drives me insane), I see plenty of "Why are guys all jerks?" or "why are women all sluts?"
etc, etc, stupid, gender wide generalisations that make people look ignorant, normally because they are, infact just that.

You are quite right, it is disgusting when people are like that, and it is appauling that people can transmit this behaviour.

However... what most people don't seem to realise is... both sexes are as bad as eachother, and, therefore, this behaviour goes both ways.
I see plenty of sex obssessed sluts every day walking around outside the building I work (.... I work in a damned government building and it's in a Red Light District ¬.¬)

Quote:
and i do my best NOT to teach any of those views to children regardless if boys or girls, although i am sometimes afraid that is not enough. but i rather TALK openly about sexuality and know that my daughter can handle a picture of BOUNCING BREASTS proper than trying to keep her away from stuff like that, so that she probably will get some kind of "misinformation" from whoever.
Actually that's one of the best kind of parenting possible, if you don't deny your daughter of information she will be more prepaired, and, therefore stronger, and more capable of dealing with life when it throws things at her.
Due to the behaviour of Lexx, I would be interested on seeing how her children would develop mentally in comparison.
Though, that said, Lexx doesn't seem all that stupid, nor incapable, so the slight and probably normally indetectable difference in parenting would be a nice thing to note.

Again, I might be wrong, I don't know how she parents her children, however consider she is coming over as a fairly strong feminist, I wonder if she is inflicting those prejudices (Because they ARE Prejudices) on her children (I can tell that from her post she wouldn't do this conciously, I'm trying to make that point/musing as non-offencively as possible, but most of the ways you influence your children, are not conciously).

Quote:
because there is one thing for sure: sexuality will be part of her life and it's her parents damn job to make sure that she will know what's going on. and no, that does not necessarily means she will have sex at the age of 11. it probably means that she will not think that a tampon can be used as a contraceptive, even if there is this guy who assures her it can.
There's the confirmation.
In my oppinion, you are one of the best parents I have met on the internet, simply from one post.
Heh...


Quote:
however, we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?
No clue.
Sexuality is not something I have a problem with.
(...*stares at BD waiting for the comment :P*...)
Quote:
it is sooo easy to be personal offended. either by a (childish?) breast-av or by an (overrated?) anti-breast-av action.
and it's easy to break it down to arrogant, respectless and personal speechs about feminism, sexism and being pissed off, without even considering that this kind of polarizing is not helpful in any way but putting up the conflict and that both sides are SUPPRESSING the other sides opinions.
but beside those ALL-SO-TRUE opinions there are FACTS.
You saved me writing this in a later post.
I draw people out in my debates, and finalise with comments like these, because often, when I'm debating, and other people are arguing, it's made most obvious when you finalise with this sort of thing, and they are left arguing the same point.

People who do not care to debate, never change their oppinions.

And, you're right, all sides of this needs to be seen to.
The Admin seems to be in the best position to do this, and since he said he has been less active recently, I would suspect it was the lack of this neutral and calculating precence that brought this situation into being.
It's not his fault, far from it, things would probably be far worse if he, and the other staff (I Presume they're not all the type to be polarised) that do the kind of social role he fills were present.

Quote:
one of those facts is, that our whole existence is based on sexuality. and no matter who may find it, for what reason ever, offending, women do have breasts, men too, some like it, some not, and there are "p.s" and they generally "belong" into "v.s", no matter what it is called or considered or how it's seen as offensive.
that fact exists FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS now..

so perhabs we should start to face it with a healthy sense of intelligence and not behave like spanish inquisitors here.
Quite.
It's rare I'm impressed by a poster I don't know...
I doubt that means much to you, but if you considered my position in a few other communities you'd probably be quite flattered :P
In the mean time...some nub called ya a great quality poster.
If only the other people here were more like you..heh.


edit;

Quote:
Originally posted by edlib
First: There's a big difference between Nazi symbology and most other nationalistic symbology due to the weight of history it carries around with it and the loaded potental it has to offend a very large group of people around the world due to the hate it carries behind the image.
That's not entirely true, since the only thing that stops any nation, or government from becoming what the Nazi's tried to do, is the fact that most of them are aware they couldn't pull it off.

Though you are very correct it's not AS BAD.
However I personally dislike patriotism and nationalism because I know fully well most countries are pretty much the same (and I'm english ffs... think about stereotypical english peoples when you see that comment..)


Quote:
Also: If someone had a legitimate problem with my avatar and expressed thier concerns eloquently enough to convince me that they were sincere, then I would change it in a heartbeat. I'm not in love with it,.. it's only an image, and as such represents only a small fraction of what I like to think is my personality and ideals.
I don't.
I would not bring it to a point where I would say I can't tollerate seeing it, and, even if I did, I'm not here enough to complain about it.

As it stands anyway, the avatar isn't saying something like "America owns you." ~ so there's nothing wrong with it in the slightest, tbh.
It was just a comment on the irony of your own comment and how it just didn't seem right at the time... (though it was 2-3am and I was in a rush ..heh).

Quote:
For the record: I chose this avatar (as well as my current sig) as a gentle and somewhat ironic jab at the current election-year politics my country is currently going through. It is also a bit of an existental protest to the current climate of government censorship on various media (of which Zappa was great defender against, and in my mind a true patriot)
Hense why I dislike it (I don't find it offencive, however).

I would never ask you to remove it, though, since it's far from unreasonable.

Quote:
(By the way... before anyone gets the idea of saying that it's ironic for someone who uses a very noted and vocal defender of free-speech as his avatar to defend the actions of censorship at an internet forum, be sure you know what the definition of free-speech in America is, and EXACTLY what it defends and what it doesn't.)
Quite.
There is irony in it, but only something to muse at, it was why I pointed it out but didn't make a huge long fuss about it.
As for defending censorship ~ heh, what's being censored?
What I see is closer to oppression.
Which is why I object.
As I said before, I am a moderator, and an admin in places, I know what censorship is, and I have seen an admin description of how he would like the content of the forum to rate, so this, is clearly, not censorship, but oppression.

Quote:
In the end it's just a picture, kids. If that's what you really want to see then I can point you to about a half a billion places on the web where you can look at bouncing breasts to your hearts' contentment.
Please don't be patronising.

As said, it was just a picture, if you didn't click the link or do not know what the picture is since it's anime it's not even real, it's not exploiting anyone, it's not berating anyone, it's not degrading anyone, and, I suspect it was never even intended in that light.

It wouldn't even be rated 12, or 15 if rated for an age cert.

Hense I can't quite see your point in terms of looking at the picture as a pornographic one.
Then again, that's because I don't.
Quote:
But if someone else, (and even if it's only ONE other person,) who also posts here everyday has a legitimate beef with an image or expression used in your profile that offends them everytime they go by one of your posts, then it shouldn't even be a question about changing it to something else. (Unless you are really only here to get in other people's faces and provoke them. In which case you should simply be banned, since that is NOT what this place is about.)
I'm here because I'm a person who tends to enjoy a decent debate, when I first hit reply I expected one, since this forum seems to have pretty decent standards, and Jay upheld those standards.

I'ev been to this forum a few times over the past couple of years, everytime I never felt the need to sign up, because, unless something needs saying, I wont.

In this case, no one was saying, what I felt should have been said.
Though if Jay had posted earlier in the tone in which he posted just now, I most probably wouldn't be here, right now, unless he was ignored.

I have been doing my best to avoid flaming people or saying things which people may find offencive, but at the same time I refuse to be anything less than 100% sincere in what I say.

On your note of saying if any specific avatar even affends a single person on this forum it should be removed, I will sustain that point, however, in that, specific case, I would point out the total, and extreme hypocrisy of lexx advancing censorship when posting with what I would deem a sexually orientated avatar, that is, a lot of cleavage that doesn't need to be there, with the loss of a few pixels, it would not be in the image, but she has chosen to leave it as it is.

and, along with the other points I have made (unmoderator like behaviour), it is this hypocrisy which would make me feel so strongly as to abject to the presence of that avatar.
When a precident is set, it is kept.

Another fairly decent post, and actually on this case I'm suprised I didn't expect you to be quite that deep even if Zappa was a deep guy...


Everybody's keeping secrets, never let me get back.

Last edited by QuantumDelta; 03-24-2004 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:09 PM   #45
El Sitherino
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the avatar was reported offensive by many members. I think they served the members well.

also I've seen sick things in my life I doubt anything you show me could make me throw up. I've seen plenty of anime and pretty much every commercialized hentai.
I watch porn but I dont' come in here spouting it daily. I leave that in #echonet
I'm a very tolerant person. Notice how I pointed out I was able to accept the avatar even the gyratin penis one. I found them rather funny, juvenile but funny. I didnt' over react but I did think it was a bit tactless but then again so are the jay and silent bob movies but I enjoy watching those, because they are so over the top.

I also am a smoker and a drinker. I have seen bad things in my life. Yes it's deplorable people allow kids to get ahold of things such as crack and cocaine.

While I GREATLY disagree with Blackdove and you on certain points, I have to say I respect your ability to stand up for your opinions, no matter how much I find them disturbing,atleast Blackdoves that is.


also to point. I had a job with my local internet company which is making a family filter to use with kids, I had to test what all you could access through it, I had to go through child porn, beastiality, snuff films, other various forms of '"erotica". I doubt anything can compare to the nightmares those have given me. I have since left that job though, but I can say it has left a lasting effect on me. If we have a war on anything it should be a war on underground porn rings.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:47 PM   #46
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sex·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (skszm)
n.
Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender.

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sexist adj. & n.


Whatever men say about woman, it's always sexistic. now you rarely see men calling woman sexists, though in my entire life (not so long yet though) i've seen more generalisation done by woman. sexists are only men, racists are only white ppl..thats just the way it is nowadays

It's like the glass ceiling. "i cant get a promotion cause of the glass ceiling" bull****, those who say this are just too used that we hold the door always open for them. I know a lot of men see women as a simple lust object, but this is also vice verca. And on those pics (99% beeing josh hartnet and orlando bloom) you can see the chest so you have to agree this and the face is the point of focus(ation?) JUST like pics of topless women. Therefore i conclude chest=breasts in point of lust object.

it's all about taboo though, about 20 years ago when you'd see a naked ass in a movie it would be OUTRAGEOUS. now movies even need naked women just to make it interesting due to lack of good story, or the lack of interest by the audience for em...in about 10 years orso a naked woman (and or even man) walking naked along the beach wouldnt be considered special anymore

anyways whats this about again..oh yes the avatar. lexx, i wouldnt mind that underpants snake avatar at all.. its even a bit funny..
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Old 03-24-2004, 05:13 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by leXX
Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.
That's not necessarily true. I've noticed that a lot of feminists in my immediate area are very hypocritical. They are feminists only when it suits then, and they don't hesitate to use their gender to influence males when it makes it easier for them.

I guess those people are only posers though.


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Old 03-24-2004, 05:40 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Actually, it's fairly easy to move to this conclusion (on how you think) from your text.
I don't see how you come to this conclusion from what I've posted in this thread. I haven't once said it's sexist to like breasts. I like breasts. Believe it not, I'm not the prude you make me out to be, as anyone who has known me long enough or chats with me outside this forum can tell you.





Quote:
If I need character references to make this comment I will get them, however, I'm extremely anti-Sexist/Racist/Ageist/etc.
Glad to hear it.

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on the same foot, feminists and other such groups who continue to campaign so militantly are equally ignorant and insecure/weak minded as the people they are campaigning against (we're all human, eh?)
I don't agree. I am actually not a feminist, even though you may jump to that conclusion from reading this thread, but I think it is certainly a good thing that other women are standing up for our rights to been seen as equal.


Quote:
Not my argument but I'll grant the fact that I didn't see you call him racist or homophobic, however he, like I, most likely rate that in the same box as sexist.
I also put a sexist in the same box as a racist or homophobic, hence my mention of both in that post.

Quote:
BD being sexist is something I repeatedly have mentioned annoys me, and tried to get him to change on it...
But bleh.
Regardless, being more neutral than thou, (heh...HTTS?) I would easily say, it's not a huge leap.
Though, like I said I didn't actually see the words anywhere.
I'm glad you are trying to get him to change his mind.



Quote:
Well, maybe you should check the words you wrote below a little later on, being childish?
The avatars childish?
Anime is something in which is mainly viewed and enjoyed by young adults, and the split in male/female isn't actually as big as you would think (though it is fairly mainly male... but, tha'ts again down to socialist crap.. uhh... kinda like your socialist crap, but the polar opposite, though, you're just as bad as they are, and it's coming out that way as well, I will point out for the second time, in the same thread, that your behaviour, specifically in the next two passages, is COMPLETELY UNFIT For moderator behaviour).
I am actually a HUGE anime fan. I love anime with a passion. I don't have a problem with how breasts are portrayed in anime at all. But we are not talking about anime, are we?


Quote:
Narukoto.
Avoiding my own points?
Since I am just about the only person you haven't addressed..... more or less?
I'm not avoiding anyones posts at all, as you can see.


Quote:
I've only been here two days, and I feel strongly about one thing that's exclusively here so far, your attitude.
Again, as the more I disect this passage, it's completely, completely, coutner-moderator.. (I have been offered moderator positions for other forums, as major as MMORPGs, as clan forums, and as LAN Arena company forums, I currently hold three of those positions, and I am fairly well valued on each forum).
I don't particularly care for your attitude either. Your opinion of me as a moderator doesn't bother me either. As you should know, when a moderator objects to anything, their position is instantly questioned. It's something I'm used to.


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Find one which is anime, and we'll talk about it.
Whilst this one is not real it's a different issue, however is someone posted with an avatar of a real girl/lady in a bikini or a cloth, or a kimono doing the same thing I would back your oppinion, and BD knows I'm not kidding with that, there are limits.
As I said above, the material you are discussing as offensive, sexual, and sexist, is obviously NOT rated that way by the people who do the certificates on the films and TV Series you watch, because serise similiar to that, don't have a high enough rating to be considered ban material, it's not all that contraversial, and it's not exploiting any particular person.
I'm glad you agree that a real one is not appropriate, and I realise you don't think an animated one is in the same league, but I do.

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Believe me, I've been on some of the worst and best forums on the web in terms of attitude, behaviour and other attributes you seem to value.
I will link you some in PM if you care to check, I don't wish to post them here out of respect for BD (Whom asked me to keep our relations to those other forums fairly seperate for a few reasons).
So have I.


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An avatar, is an avatar.
I have one specific avatar I use on most forums, I haven't directed this forums profile toward it yet because I would have liked you to have acknowledged that there are people who are arguing against you that don't particularly give a damn about avatar/sigpic unless they're within acceptable boundaries.
My normal sigpic for the forum I frequent the most these days is currently;
http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...elta/eyez2.jpg

With http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...lta/Naruto.jpg for a sig pic.

My last desktop background was;
http://smalltimerivalry.com/sschost/...y_grade-01.jpg

My current backgrond;
http://www.banime.com/output/shaorin1024x768.jpg
Good choice. What? You thought I had a problem with them?


Quote:
No, you're being childish, the avatars inthemselves are not, since they are inanimate objects, and are incapable of being anything other than avatars themselves.
What they are, is what you make of them.
As you state here, your objective to them seems to me, to be childish, on the grounds of insecurity.
I disagree. The avatar is extremely childish. Believe me, I have never been insecure, nor will I ever be.


Quote:
Irony considering my own comments....
It would be easy for me to proceed from this comment that all you are doing here IS pushing your own oppinion on other people and IS flaming BlackDove.
I am not pushing my opinion on anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Where exactly did I flame BlackDove? By calling him a sexist? He is a self proclaimed sexist, so calling him one isn't a flame.

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Please, maybe some deeper thought would be a good idea before a moderator is going to post their [b]personal oppinions
I put a lot of thought into my posts, do you?


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It is, and other oppinions should be taken into account, the moderators, are not here to serve themselves, they are here to serve the members of this forum, and they are here to keep the forum running smoothly, at this point in time I would be suggesting that, at least two, are doing the polar opposite.
I completely agree that we are here to serve other members of this forum. How exactly am I not doing that? Because I don't want to see bouncing boobs all over the place, and penis's and whatever else people can come up, this makes me a bad person right?


Quote:
That's fine if you believe legality makes the difference, then you should be paying attention to the LEGAL rating that most anime containing content such as this avatar.
The only reasonable oppinion I have seen so far against it, has been one of the admins, whom wanted to keep the forums PG.
Meanwhile, others who are arguing it's sexist, and that's why they want it gone.

Sexist, heh.
I also said the avatar isn't appropriate for a family forum. My opinion that I think the avatar is degrading women remains the same.

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Sexism to me is something I don't think lexx has ever seen, abuse of women (physical or mental) or men, simply because of which sex they are, sexuality is something different, sexuality in anime, heh, anime was originally meant to be, everything taboo, if you wanted to see some sexist stuff, I would post that, but considering how ignorant and how low your tollerance level for things seems to be I would consider you likely to throw up ¬.¬
You don't think I've seen sexism? Heh.

As I said above, I have no problem whatsoever with anime.

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So tell me, if a girl (as I have met a few who do) choose to use this avatar, are they sexist? Heh, being unable to link profiles to these people as most of the forums I've seen these avatars used on have died out (as said before it's a fad, it comes, it goes).
Not once have I said that if a person uses that avatar, they are sexist. All my comments have been directed at the avatar itself.



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Generally speaking, though, someone who finds animes sexist are really about as ignorant as they come.
Like I said, I love anime, but this discussion isn't about anime, it's about and animated bouncing boob avatar, in a forum, not in a film or tv series or whatever.

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I asked around, and, even on #animesuki (fansubbers irc chat channel) over on rizon.net -- only one person, in the whole group (80 anime insane users) had ever seen a single sexist remark in anime. Scantily clad "perfect" girls, drawn a lot, but never actually in a sexist light, anime artists often like to tell stories with their anime and their focus is very rarely on sex (though there is a whole catagory that I avoid completely... about sex, from anime)..
See above.

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Actually that's one of the best kind of parenting possible, if you don't deny your daughter of information she will be more prepaired, and, therefore stronger, and more capable of dealing with life when it throws things at her.
Due to the behaviour of Lexx, I would be interested on seeing how her children would develop mentally in comparison.
Though, that said, Lexx doesn't seem all that stupid, nor incapable, so the slight and probably normally indetectable difference in parenting would be a nice thing to note.



Again, I might be wrong, I don't know how she parents her children, however consider she is coming over as a fairly strong feminist, I wonder if she is inflicting those prejudices (Because they ARE Prejudices) on her children (I can tell that from her post she wouldn't do this conciously, I'm trying to make that point/musing as non-offencively as possible, but most of the ways you influence your children, are not conciously).
How I bring up my children is my business, and has nothing at all to do with this discussion. But I say again, I am not a feminist, even though I may come across as one.

Quote:
As said, it was just a picture, if you didn't click the link or do not know what the picture is since it's anime it's not even real, it's not exploiting anyone, it's not berating anyone, it's not degrading anyone, and, I suspect it was never even intended in that light.
Again, I must disagree. The avatar does degrade women, whether you choose to see it or not.

Quote:
It wouldn't even be rated 12, or 15 if rated for an age cert.

Hense I can't quite see your point in terms of looking at the picture as a pornographic one.
Then again, that's because I don't.
I don't see it as pornograpic either, just offensive.

Quote:
I'm here because I'm a person who tends to enjoy a decent debate, when I first hit reply I expected one, since this forum seems to have pretty decent standards, and Jay upheld those standards.

I'ev been to this forum a few times over the past couple of years, everytime I never felt the need to sign up, because, unless something needs saying, I wont.

In this case, no one was saying, what I felt should have been said.
Though if Jay had posted earlier in the tone in which he posted just now, I most probably wouldn't be here, right now, unless he was ignored.
I enjoy a decent debate too, when I'm not too tired after looking after two young kids and can find the time (which is rare).

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I have been doing my best to avoid flaming people or saying things which people may find offencive, but at the same time I refuse to be anything less than 100% sincere in what I say.
I echo that when I say I go out of my way not to insult people, but obviously people will find offence in a lot of things they read that disagree with their opinion.

Quote:
On your note of saying if any specific avatar even affends a single person on this forum it should be removed, I will sustain that point, however, in that, specific case, I would point out the total, and extreme hypocrisy of lexx advancing censorship when posting with what I would deem a sexually orientated avatar, that is, a lot of cleavage that doesn't need to be there, with the loss of a few pixels, it would not be in the image, but she has chosen to leave it as it is.

and, along with the other points I have made (unmoderator like behaviour), it is this hypocrisy which would make me feel so strongly as to abject to the presence of that avatar.
When a precident is set, it is kept..
I change my avatar virtually every day, to mirror what I'm into or like at the time, but I have specifically kept this avatar this long to illustrate my point. How you find this avatar more offensive than one than has boobs bouncing up and down in it is quite honestly beyond me. My avatar in no way degrades the subject.

...

I'm obviously being made out to be some feminist prude who hasn't had a good seeing to in ages, but I assure you, I'm quite the opposite. I've "got my tits out for the lads" in IRC on more than one occasion, but this isn't IRC, nor is it an anime film, nor is it anything but a forum. The question is, is this avatar appropriate for this family forum, will it lead to other avatars that are worse than it with the excuse that if one person can have bouncing boobs, then why can't I have a bouncing penis or whatever else, and is this what everyone really wants this forum to become? The answer is left to the admins.

This discussion also seems to being going off on many tangents that have no relevence.


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Last edited by leXX; 03-24-2004 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 03-24-2004, 06:07 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by leXX
I am neither sexist, racist or homophobic, so believe me, my farts do smell a damn sight sweeter than your foul smelling ones.
Excuse me, that's the first thing up there on your super refute post with excellent one-sentence-replies :roflmao:. Not only are you childish, but apparently unaware of your arguments.

Quote:
Originally posted by leXX
Oh, and I'd like to thank Jed for realising that I'm being attacked simply because I'm female. =)
Yeah that's right, couldn't possibly be because your views on things are just downright stupid and socially ludacris (well in my opinion at least, but people apparently share it). However I understand it's hard to defend the afformentioned fact, so it's better to just blaim it on male abuse. After all, that is the real problem here, not the fact that we're living in the 21'st century while you're stuck god knows where in the past?

Quote:
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
No clue.
Sexuality is not something I have a problem with.
(...*stares at BD waiting for the comment :P*...)


Hey, I was the one sharing my pre-adolescent experiences on the first page, and discussing the largness of my genitalia without any jokes. Stop glaring.

RayJones - First and foremost, thank god for the ability and experience to articulate things better than me, and I have to say that I agree with most/all you have to say on the issue of this avatar and general sexuality that the avatar may be radiating in connection with children. However although I will agree that this should be out in the open and it in fact is better for children and parents to tackle any incoming problems head on, because there is nothing wrong with it nor un-natural (I'll come back to your question in a sec), I will have to agree with Matt here, that this is indeed a Star Wars forum, not sex-ed or anime. As much as our freedoms are shrunked or expanded on this forum, we are all generally constrained by the theme in one way or another.

That's my opinion as far as children go in connection to the avatar. As far as the avatar and its effects on children, seriously, as my more-informed-about-anime biatch says, the avatar is not only morally harmless by social definitions (we know what's unacceptable and acceptable, in social terms, so let's not pretend that porn equates to that avatar), but also harmless in view with the rating syndicate.

As far as me being a sexist for liking the avatar -

The question -

Quote:
Originally posted by RayJones:
we are naturally born naked and things that "hang" or are "attached" somewhere have the tendency to move. so why make an "unnaturally" thing of it?
I'll try to answer this the way I see it - the reason people find it un-natural or should we call it in leXX's case immoral is because for those people it doesn't matter werther the image in itself is or is not offensive, Because they associate the sexual organs with their own personal prejudice, with any kind of embellishment on said organs they have no other choice but to go down the irrational psycho road. I could be mistaken, but unlikely.

But then people say, she's a woman, she has every right to complain. Yeah that's true, but when her complaints rule over voices of reason because she happens to be authority, then I have a problem with it. No vote in the world on werther the avatar itself is appropriate or unapropriate in accordance to the rules of the forum helps my issue there.

So why do I have to suffer the consequences of someone who obivously has no ability to view the matter in the correct way? Because they're a moderator, so I'm supposed to just bend over and take it up the ass, and not only that, I have to agree that I'm a sexist, female-abuser, stereotipically male dominantor of poor opressed women, because I happen to like the avatar?

Just NO

Which in where lies the reason I risked a ban with my higly offensive post on the first page. While I will agree with Jed that moderators should hold their own, I just don't care about that aspect of solidarity when it comes to me being labled as the above.

I'll admit I'm sexist, but I'll admit that on my OWN and I won't have someone doing the definition for me just because they find the peice of art "unapropriate" and because they happen to be the authority in the place where it's inapropriate.

In any case, that's what my rant is about. Werther the avatar is acceptable for the forums or not, I guess we have a vote now, and we'll find out. But I will not be labeled as a dumbass officially, just because people can do that.


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Old 03-24-2004, 08:05 PM   #50
swphreak
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The biggest problem I have with the avatar is it draws unwanted attention in public.

If I'm at school, in a library, or even at home, I shouldn't have to worry about someone looking over my shoulder and seeing an inappropriate avatar. They'll jump to conclusions and I could get in trouble (at school).

If anyone has to worry about a situation like that, then it shouldn't be allowed here.
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Old 03-24-2004, 10:02 PM   #51
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SWP ~ Why are you on a fan/gaming forum while you are in school?
That in itself is instantly inappropriate.

Forums, out right, are banned in every school and college I ever attended.
It was only university that didn't mind, and, that's typically because there was something like 3 hour gaps between some of my lectures.

Lexx, I didn't want to do this but meh...
For future reference, please DO NOT break up my paragraphs, they are in that form for a reason, you pull a lines out of context and comment on them.
It's cheap, it's not smart, it's not going to work on someone who has been around forums as long as I have.
Sorry, like I said, I'm here to debate, not argue, not flame, not fight.
What's more sad is from the looks of it you were trying to give my post a "fair" analysis from your perspective, which means you may have genuinely read the text as you commented on it...
which.......just isn't how it was meant to be read.
Things are put into contexts for reasons, especially on forums.

Quote:
I am neither sexist, racist or homophobic, so believe me, my farts do smell a damn sight sweeter than your foul smelling ones.
Flame?

Quote:
Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.
With as conservative as you are on avatars, I'd call that a flame, as well.

I wont pull the debatable flames out of the posts because there's a few of them, and you have to quote BDs text as well, admittedly, he is being quite the (usual self) jack ass about this, but, dispite his inability to articulate his point well enough, he has a decent one.

Quote:
The question here is why are we offended by a picture of bouncing boobs. Let me break it down for you.

It is hard enough for the women in this forum to feel comfortable as it is. We are faced with many stereotypes such as we are rubbish at games, don't like Star Wars, we must be ugly to be posting here etc etc. A picture of bouncing boobs belittles us further. It is a symbol of male dominance, which says one thing, women are nothing but sexual objects to be gawked at.
I didn't want to pull these sentences out of context, as I just complained about you doing the same to me.
Anyway, I wanted to comment on a couple of things in here;

A few of the girls I have met online, have been absolutely beautiful.
A few of the guys I have met online, have been extremely hansome.

When I played my second "major" online game, I became world #1 at it after a short period of refresher (year break from it).
I trained people at it, male, and female.

With one exception, the female pilots typically came off the better players, or at least the most improved players, because they could multitask easier and they would pay more attention, and, with one exception, their egos would get in the way less.

The single exception to the female pilots being better, was BD.
He succeeded me, as world #1, though I don't believe he explicitly trained more than two people after attaining that position, he did, unquestionably hold it (...apart from one psychopathic mega £%$)( which is probably half a reason BD has problem with women... ....hell, the cow did me some damage too).

....Anyway, I know from experience women are easily capable of giving as much as men in terms of performance at games.


By the way, this was one of the passages that made you come off as insecure which ...most feminists I've met are.
You just have to attack their points the right way to make it obvious to everyone that they are.

Same, to a degree, with sexists, and, very much the same with homophobes and racists....

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It is also inapropriate for this forum. We have a certain standard to maintain seeing as there are a high number of younger members. Allowing an avatar like that can lead to a number of other similar avatars, and this is a family forum (the Star Wars forum at least).
As I have said, it breaks no legal laws, nor would it push your "rating" up if forums were ever given age certificates.
FYI, Animated avatars are banned, full stop, end of story, on the forum where I have the most influence.

"similiar" avatars would bea dealt with on a case by case basis as well, this one is one side of a line, most of the ones I can think of, that you might be refering to, are on the other side of the line.



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Would it be ok to allow a picture of an animated covered bouncing penis? No it wouldn't. And yes, boobs fall into the same category.
Is it possible to find a covered, bouncing animated penis?
As far as I know, the same as a vagina, in animes, the primary sex organs are normally, only revealed in even the slightest during actual intercourse.
I don't watch enough hentai to declare that rule unbroken, but knowing how the style of the artists goes, actual nudity doesn't work very well for their storyline unless it's a final climax (forgive the pun).

Then again, generally speaking a lot of hentai is tenticle stuff...and demon stuff....so there isn't really a lot of male sexual parts in it....normally the men are hiding in a corner somewhere crying because their girl is being riped apart infront of them, litterally in some cases.




Quote:
Both are sexual parts of the body that if presented uncovered on this forum, would be considered porn. Would it be ok to allow a picture of real boobs bouncing up and down? No it wouldn't. The fact that the avatar is a cartoon makes no difference.
If it were a cartoon nekkid part of the body it would be porn.

What's your point, and how is it valid to a clothed pair?
I don't see one, it's a totally different level, again.

Even there;
Janet Jacksons' shameless plug has revealed more during prime time national US TV, and there has been similar stuff on UK TV, though due to our conservative nation admittedly it'll probably never be as bad as it will be during the same day on a US TV.
You see Britney Spears bouncing around on TV every day, you tell your kids not to watch her? or any of the other female artists?
What about some of the guy artists who occasionally push the boundaries? ~~ No?
Double standard??


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I myself have boobs in my avatar, so as you can see, I am not offended by pictures of boobs, so long as they are presented in a decent manner. If someone was to have a picture of just boobs, then I would consider it offensive aswell, for the reasons stated above.
I find your picture more of a problem because it has more detail, and, as you should know considering you've had two kids..it's "promise of" or "temptation of" not the actual "act of" that's sexual.
Sex itself tends to be under-rated, most of the stuff you'll see is all temptation, hints, etc...

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I don't see how you come to this conclusion from what I've posted in this thread. I haven't once said it's sexist to like breasts. I like breasts. Believe it not, I'm not the prude you make me out to be, as anyone who has known me long enough or chats with me outside this forum can tell you.
I say what I see.
re-reading some of your stuff you don't come off as bad, but you may wish to drop the sarcasm, childish approaches and cheap tactics, it does make you look very much like a foaming at the mouth feminist.

As for painting you one way or another ~
BD knows for a fact that I state things as I see them, and like I said before.
I tend to say things with 100% Sincerity, even if, occasionally, I say them wrong and end up unpopular because of it, if you consider it as an attack, maybe you could review how you posted and note to not allow yourself to be "Attacked" in the same way in the future?

Believe me, some posts I've made on some forums, although they have broke the post limit for the character count (15000 words iirc) for that forum, have needed to be parced over 2-4 posts, smacked into a 20-50 page debate, and instantly destroyed any preconceptions people had about such subjects ~ it's sometimes annoying to make posts such as those, but if you truly feel so strongly about a subject, posting a long, but infallible post, is sometimes the best way to deal with it, it'll save your fingers some time in the long run.

(I wonder if I can "nest" quotes in this forum....)

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me:
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on the same foot, feminists and other such groups who continue to campaign so militantly are equally ignorant and insecure/weak minded as the people they are campaigning against (we're all human, eh?)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You


I don't agree. I am actually not a feminist, even though you may jump to that conclusion from reading this thread, but I think it is certainly a good thing that other women are standing up for our rights to been seen as equal.
You took this as an attack? and are defending yourself from it why? it was a fairly annonymous comment, it wasn't actually directed at you, You don't agree with the statement, or don't agree that you're feminist?
Because, as I said above, people who hold prejudices (though it is somewhat ironic to banbox such a large group) tend to be, ignorant, weak minded, and insecure.
Normally through lack of education.
Normally through lack of understanding.

Quote:
I also put a sexist in the same box as a racist or homophobic, hence my mention of both in that post.
This would probably be where BD got his homophobic/racist comment from.

Quote:
I am actually a HUGE anime fan. I love anime with a passion. I don't have a problem with how breasts are portrayed in anime at all. But we are not talking about anime, are we?
I am.
That avatar is an anime character, named Rae, and when I looked up the person who animated the avatar, I was actually quite right, in a way.....but uhh it was a girl... heh ^^;
She animated and drew the avatar in this way because she felt it signified Rae's personality.
This movement isn't sexual, either, if you look at the girls facial expression, it's a joyous/fun one....there's no classic anime ecchi blush is there? :P

Quote:
I'm not avoiding anyones posts at all, as you can see.
I was trying to bring your attention to my posts so we could focus on some stuff, and get some stuff resolved.
Actually.....once you took your attention away from BD you turned back into something I can deal with fairly civily :P

so maybe you're only a foaming at the mouth feminist when there's a sexist around ;p

Quote:
I don't particularly care for your attitude either. Your opinion of me as a moderator doesn't bother me either. As you should know, when a moderator objects to anything, their position is instantly questioned. It's something I'm used to.
Did you read my text?
You don't care about my attitude either?
When I said I care about yours?
BD calls me a bleeding heart, there are people I quite litterally attack on another forum because I know it's the only way to effect them psychologically, but that's a special case, I worry about their child, on a lot of levels.

I go out of my way to try to broaden scopes ...everyone's scopes.
A lot of the time that lands me in hot water, but I'm used to it, and expect it, take me as you please ~ this is who I am, and for as long as I post here it will most likely show in every single post I make (How regularly I post here is another matter since my ethusiam for SW died with SW-1 and 2 and with the horrific line of games LA have produced ...a few, but little late, quality titles coming out now, of which SWG is most definately not one ~ remember this is coming from a high level gamer.... who plays all genres including MMOs), from your posts up until now, you have seemed someone I don't deem the type to be a moderator, this post changed the oppinion I formed from the ones I read before I signed up.
If you didn't notice preconceptions are something I don't cling to.

However, if such behaviour isn't irregular at the very least I would still question your position, even though I haven't decided whether it is now, or not.

Bare in mind, though, that many of the official forums I visit (non-official = clan or anime fandoms mainly), the moderators are NOT ALLOWED to post their personal feelings, and the moderators are kept annonymous and seperate from their normal names.
Professional detatchment. ~ I don't know how it goes, here.

Quote:
I'm glad you agree that a real one is not appropriate, and I realise you don't think an animated one is in the same league, but I do.
Simply because I rate the avatar as anime and you don't, I think that's the difference, considering animes certificates are rated on similar, but different levels of criteria to those of live action programs.

Quote:

Good choice. What? You thought I had a problem with them?

I was posting those links to provide a little background on myself, since, the only likihood of anyone knowing me here, is them being Neocron, FreeSpace2, Tribes2, or UK Counter Strike refugees, or possibly Janains or from the same place BD knows me from.
....
Meh, there's a few other places I frequent but none of those posters would be here.
Quote:
I disagree. The avatar is extremely childish. Believe me, I have never been insecure, nor will I ever be.
Perhaps both of us (if not everyone else as well) should stop stating oppinions as fact?
It makes both of us come off as arrogant, ignorant and extremists.
Part of the root of the problem I was talking about earlier, part of the reason you seem like a foaming at the mouth feminist.

Quote:
I am not pushing my opinion on anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Read the last quote, or possibly your own post whilst you quoted my text.
I admit, I did it as well, but, stating an oppinion as fact, whether you like it or not, is pushing your oppinion on others.
You are.

Quote:
I put a lot of thought into my posts, do you?
Lovely context ripping you have there.

I think simply from the tone in my posts it should be obvious I put a great deal of thought into my own posts, I even said that, or rather suggestively placed that, comment in with the sincerity.

Quote:
I completely agree that we are here to serve other members of this forum. How exactly am I not doing that? Because I don't want to see bouncing boobs all over the place, and penis's and whatever else people can come up, this makes me a bad person right?
It wouldn't be hard for me to do as you have done, with this paragraph as well ~ taking things out of context.

In short; You are not serving the community because you are pushing your own oppinions.
Whether you are oppinionated or not, surely you should be able to see that this, very act is not serving the members of the forum merely yourself.

Quote:
I also said the avatar isn't appropriate for a family forum.
The people who rate the programs and material the avatar come from, and are paid, trained and qualified to do so, disagree.
That in itself makes you wrong.

Quote:
My opinion that I think the avatar is degrading women remains the same.
I took it out of context (considering putting your first line with that) but, generally, when linked with the first line ~ again, it looks like you're pushing your oppinion on other people.
Not serving the members of the forum.

Quote:
You don't think I've seen sexism? Heh.

As I said above, I have no problem whatsoever with anime.
Ever been in the army?

~ The avatar is, anime.
Again, this is one of the core points of my debate that you don't seem to be acknowledging.

Quote:
Not once have I said that if a person uses that avatar, they are sexist. All my comments have been directed at the avatar itself.
How in the hell can an avatar drawn in innocense and by a girl about girls be sexist against girls?
Just the absurdity of it makes my head hurt.
In my oppinion, You're over conservative and over reacting.

Quote:
Like I said, I love anime, but this discussion isn't about anime, it's about and animated bouncing boob avatar, in a forum, not in a film or tv series or whatever.
Wont repeat myself again you can scroll up.... (or I could just start copy pasting......)
however you can see what I was talking to Jay, about, earlier.

Quote:
How I bring up my children is my business, and has nothing at all to do with this discussion. But I say again, I am not a feminist, even though I may come across as one.
Then a piece of advice from someone who did very well in psychology.
Try to change the way you come across, because your kids will absorb this, and will naturally look at the other sex with an "exclusion" thought in mind.
It's the same as when any white guy who thinks he's not racists walks down the street after getting off the bus to go to work, or in town, and sees a black person and looks away with a semi-guilty feeling for noting their presence more than anyone else because they're not supposed to note their prescence.
It's sub concious, and hard to control, but, it always, always, has large implications on ones child or children.

Quote:
Again, I must disagree. The avatar does degrade women, whether you choose to see it or not.
Again, in your oppinion.
Quote:
I don't see it as pornograpic either, just offensive.
Then your family forum comments are not valid what part of my earlier statements don't you understand?
Or...is that the whole taking things out of context thing I warned you about....? ¬.¬

Quote:
I enjoy a decent debate too, when I'm not too tired after looking after two young kids and can find the time (which is rare).
That's an ironic thing to say for a person with a post count of 11.11 posts per day, currently posting at this kind of character count per post.
Someone who's amassed over 7000 posts in the space of two years.
I'd call that time.

Quote:

I echo that when I say I go out of my way not to insult people, but obviously people will find offence in a lot of things they read that disagree with their opinion.
Oh you noticed that then...? like how certain people have been taking offence to some of the things you've been saying? or at least the way you are articulating? or ...at least your hypocritical comments...? heh... ok I'll stop.

Quote:
I change my avatar virtually every day, to mirror what I'm into or like at the time, but I have specifically kept this avatar this long to illustrate my point. How you find this avatar more offensive than one than has boobs bouncing up and down in it is quite honestly beyond me. My avatar in no way degrades the subject.
God that sounds familiar.
Anyway, like I said further up, I find your avatar more offencive because it's more detailed, more tempting, and more suggestive.

Quote:
I'm obviously being made out to be some feminist prude who hasn't had a good seeing to in ages, but I assure you, I'm quite the opposite. I've "got my tits out for the lads" in IRC on more than one occasion, but this isn't IRC, nor is it an anime film, nor is it anything but a forum. The question is, is this avatar appropriate for this family forum, will it lead to other avatars that are worse than it with the excuse that if one person can have bouncing boobs, then why can't I have a bouncing penis or whatever else, and is this what everyone really wants this forum to become? The answer is left to the admins.

This discussion also seems to being going off on many tangents that have no relevence.
I would suggest you please read Matt's comment about hypocricy in feminists before you believe getting your kit off for guys in a chat room excludes you from their ilk.

again, you're defending yourself and not the point... which encourage me, to make oppinions on, and, comment on, yourself.
It's an egocentric world heh.

Have I yet, objected to a bouncing penis?
You can probably tell from at least one of my earlier comments that I most likely wouldn't on the right forum, however since live action images are rated seperately I would say YOUR image, wouldn't be PG.

MMORPG Politics forces you to learn to make your oppinions very clear and precise and leaves no room for misinterperatation, heh...

As for tangnts.

The only tangents I see from the topic of the avatar are comments made about the people posting in the thread, of which you are as guilty as anyone else.
Defending yourself instead of your points, also derails threads.

....You should know this stuff.....?


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Old 03-24-2004, 10:07 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
The biggest problem I have with the avatar is it draws unwanted attention in public.

If I'm at school, in a library, or even at home, I shouldn't have to worry about someone looking over my shoulder and seeing an inappropriate avatar. They'll jump to conclusions and I could get in trouble (at school).

If anyone has to worry about a situation like that, then it shouldn't be allowed here.
that "unwanted attention" was actually what i was talking about, somehow..
there is nothing "special" about it, from my point of view it's like a "bouncy" presented male chest from a womans view.

so i wouldnt worry much at all, because i am only at lf, at least i could explain this and show my and all the other (appropriate) avatars here.
there is nothing to hide, everyone can take a look and will see that it is a "normal" forum in the internet. and maybe that someone who is looking over your shoulder would look long enough to see that anyways.
my girl can see what i am doing with my computer, if she is interrested though.
she's tough enough to know how to take such things and surely wouldnt have to say more than "*raises a brow* now THAT must hurt in the back after a while."

also maybe i would say that lf is not appropriate at school, at least during lessons..

Quote:
Originally posted by QuantumDelta
..
In the mean time...some nub called ya a great quality poster.
..
hey, it's alway good to now what other nubs know, and err.. you havent seen my loads of crap yet..

but thank you for caring enough, after all the world is small.



Quote:
Originally posted by BlackDove
However although I will agree that this should be out in the open and it in fact is better for children and parents to tackle any incoming problems head on, because there is nothing wrong with it nor un-natural (I'll come back to your question in a sec), I will have to agree with Matt here, that this is indeed a Star Wars forum, not sex-ed or anime.
that is, undoubtedly, another fact and i agree with that, too. i just have tried to point that "communication" thing out. however, you got the idea..


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Old 03-24-2004, 10:54 PM   #53
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Well... im unimpressed by the victorian attitudes some of you people have shown yourselves to have.

First off, feminism and sexism. I doubt very much of any of you are from the radical feminist (sexists) "all sex is rape" camp. And i'd also assume all of you believe in equal rights, or liberal feminism (common sense). Liberal feminists would have absolutely no problem with a 70x70 pixel picture of bouncing boobs on a cartoon girl. Who even spends more than 10 seconds looking at an Avatar? i dont even look once im used to them.
Say that everyone did look at every avatar and it actually mattered if you had a hardcore porn avatar (because in reality if one person did, you'd get used to it and stop looking)

The avatar has an anime babe with bouncing boobs. Boobs are seen everyday in every context. Theres been a steady loss of taboos about breasts. Welcome to 2004. This forum is still somewhere in the 1970s. I'm unimpressed that you could make such a big deal of it, going as far as to censor it. If anyone is offended by it, perhaps they should think about their own prudishness. The avatar was never meant to offend (if it was, it should be taken down) its just a stupid but mildly amusing avatar. Some 10000 words in you guys should have taken a raincheck and realized you were taking this way too seriously.

Jed and Lexx, as mods go, im unimpressed. Your original post was inciting lexx and Jed you didnt help, especially with your chronic wit deficiency making you look even stupider than you already do. Lexx, you've been flaming and abusing your mod position in this thread and also taking advantage of being a woman in a male dominated community. good job.

To sum up
You = Victorian censors with an outdated set of taboos.
BD, QD and Phwaching = The voice of the people. Those who refuse to stand for your fascist bull****.
Avatar = Harmless fun.
Radical feminists = RONG.
Conservatives = RONG.

got it?
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phwaching

To sum up
You = Victorian censors with an outdated set of taboos.
BD, QD and Phwaching = The voice of the people. Those who refuse to stand for your fascist bull****.
Avatar = Harmless fun.
Radical feminists = RONG.
Conservatives = RONG.

got it?
you = need schooling.
also, their action was based upon people having reported the avatar, jump on them and I shall destroy you.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phwaching
Well... im unimpressed by the victorian attitudes some of you people have shown yourselves to have.

First off, feminism and sexism. I doubt very much of any of you are from the radical feminist (sexists) "all sex is rape" camp. And i'd also assume all of you believe in equal rights, or liberal feminism (common sense). Liberal feminists would have absolutely no problem with a 70x70 pixel picture of bouncing boobs on a cartoon girl. Who even spends more than 10 seconds looking at an Avatar? i dont even look once im used to them.
Say that everyone did look at every avatar and it actually mattered if you had a hardcore porn avatar (because in reality if one person did, you'd get used to it and stop looking)

The avatar has an anime babe with bouncing boobs. Boobs are seen everyday in every context. Theres been a steady loss of taboos about breasts. Welcome to 2004. This forum is still somewhere in the 1970s. I'm unimpressed that you could make such a big deal of it, going as far as to censor it. If anyone is offended by it, perhaps they should think about their own prudishness. The avatar was never meant to offend (if it was, it should be taken down) its just a stupid but mildly amusing avatar. Some 10000 words in you guys should have taken a raincheck and realized you were taking this way too seriously.

Jed and Lexx, as mods go, im unimpressed. Your original post was inciting lexx and Jed you didnt help, especially with your chronic wit deficiency making you look even stupider than you already do. Lexx, you've been flaming and abusing your mod position in this thread and also taking advantage of being a woman in a male dominated community. good job.

To sum up
You = Victorian censors with an outdated set of taboos.
BD, QD and Phwaching = The voice of the people. Those who refuse to stand for your fascist bull****.
Avatar = Harmless fun.
Radical feminists = RONG.
Conservatives = RONG.

got it?
Hold a sec, you just registered and you have a stance on this?

And sorry for my post, but I need to remember that when you fight with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

*shrugs*

Oh, and another thing, am I rong or wrong? Two different meanings.

Wrong would imply I'm incorrect.

Rong would imply you suck at teh intarweb.
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:39 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phwaching
Welcome to 2004. This forum is still somewhere in the 1970s.
actually the 70's were the golden age of gratuateous nudity with no purpose other than to show naked breasts. and the 70's were also the golden age of porn. Choke on that while you come up with a new analogy of what time period this forum is in.


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Old 03-24-2004, 11:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jed
Hold a sec, you just registered and you have a stance on this?

And sorry for my post, but I need to remember that when you fight with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

*shrugs*

Oh, and another thing, am I rong or wrong? Two different meanings.

Wrong would imply I'm incorrect.

Rong would imply you suck at teh intarweb.
Before i address your points oh mighty moderator, i must first tell InsaneSith that he is a ****tard who wasted 10 seconds of my time to post that ridiculous remark about attacking me although he knows neither who i am nor my location. good job asshat!

Now Jed, lets address your points, but like you say, i ought not to get in too much of an argument with you or you might drag me down to your level (although we may not have enough time for me to get from my level to yours) and then perhaps you will beat me with experience. I doubt however this is the case, as you are not intelligent enough to address my points, preferring to look like a fool in front of your community.

Lets look at the start of the post: You just registered and have a stance on this? good question genius, had you bothered to read my post you would have noticed that the answer is yes, i do have a stance. you know how i decided upon it? i read most of the thread and then combined my personal opinions with the matter at hand and replied. You however prefer the "ignore the subject and post a random brainfart" approach. While i could perhaps accept this from a mere user, you would think that a moderator who has been hand picked for that position would perhaps consider replying in the context of the thread.

Finally, Rong would imply i suck at the intarweb? you go ahead and insult my clearly deliberate spelling by deliberately mispelling internet? I notice you forgot that in trying to own me you might have wanted to include something clever or insulting rather than proving my previous points about you being dropped on your head as a baby.
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:48 PM   #58
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Ehh, I guess I should explain. I told a few of my fellow mods/admins to take a look at the thread for a few different reasons. Anyway, the opinions weren't fixed or anything like that, they more or less chose to post themselves (actually I told Quantum not to post because I really thought he'd go against me on it, and I didn't want to suffer long posts - having to refute them, see it's much easier to reply to leXX one liners, if I even need to do that, since sometimes a point doesn't exist), but I told Phwatching also to keep an eye on it, because he has a - what I thought was a well informed view on different kinds of feministic behaviour, more informed than me anyway. His attack on you Jed I didn't expect, but I just had a good laugh

By the way, since we're all mods/admins of a couple of communities, we have fantastic insight on good mods and bad ones, and are able to judge very fast. For example, it doesn't take a genius that Matt here is a great admin, because he could have handled the thread in a lot of ways. And I almost know all of the scenarios it could have been handled (like for example, the way you started Jed ) - not that there's really many RONG things about going your way, it's just that valor is best expressed in the way Matt did it (so far). I actually feel a bit bad that I have to dump on leXX, because it's the admins that set up the mods, and the successors reflect upon the ones they've successed (having known Matt since he was a fixed mod - meaning not super). Obviously in this case, looking at it that way, I'd be wrong about Matt.


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Old 03-24-2004, 11:50 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
actually the 70's were the golden age of gratuateous nudity with no purpose other than to show naked breasts. and the 70's were also the golden age of porn. Choke on that while you come up with a new analogy of what time period this forum is in.
That was silly of me, i thought that it was decade comprising of a backlash against the free love and hippy type movements that the 60s embodied. In fact, wait! i actually know that Radical feminism has its roots in the early 1970s. Well, that would make your point about the 1970s being a decade of breasts slightly wrong. It also makes as much sense as me saying the 1920s was the decade of the left testicle.

If you actually gave a ****, you could check what im saying by doing a little research, but the words might be a bit long for you.
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:51 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jed
Hold a sec, you just registered and you have a stance on this?
I wonder if this comment detracts from my posts...
I'm a lurker by nature these days... I always am when not faced with responcibilities on a forum...
Quote:

And sorry for my post, but I need to remember that when you fight with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

*shrugs*

Oh, and another thing, am I rong or wrong? Two different meanings.

Wrong would imply I'm incorrect.

Rong would imply you suck at teh intarweb.
Yeay more super mod flamage -_-
You guys want flame throwers?
o_o

Insane ~ I think he was refering to the whole revolution in terms of rights and things .....wrong in decade, but only by about two years.... :P

edit;
okay now this thread is boned :P


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Old 03-24-2004, 11:59 PM   #61
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Well I'm not responsible for Reaps' welfare here, but I do like the fact he doesn't care about going at it that hard with a mod, because in this place, it's quite fast that you can get banned just because one of them thinks it's needed.

About the thread being boned, yeah it has taken a sidecourse, but since one of the mods contributed to the derail - well you can't blaim us completely


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Old 03-25-2004, 12:03 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Phwaching
That was silly of me, i thought that it was decade comprising of a backlash against the free love and hippy type movements that the 60s embodied. In fact, wait! i actually know that Radical feminism has its roots in the early 1970s. Well, that would make your point about the 1970s being a decade of breasts slightly wrong. It also makes as much sense as me saying the 1920s was the decade of the left testicle.

If you actually gave a ****, you could check what im saying by doing a little research, but the words might be a bit long for you.
... you obviously have not seen many 70's horror films nor the abundance of over 20,000 pornos made in the 1970's alone. Yes the 70's were an uprise in feminism, but if YOU researched it was a large reaction to the uppity in the nudity in movies.


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Old 03-25-2004, 12:13 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
... you obviously have not seen many 70's horror films nor the abundance of over 20,000 pornos made in the 1970's alone. Yes the 70's were an uprise in feminism, but if YOU researched it was a large reaction to the uppity in the nudity in movies.
Jesus christ, you people talk a lot of bull****. (Hey mods, wanna censor me for saying Jesus? maybe im one of those religionist bastards) Radical feminism came about as not only evolution of liberal feminism and the suffragettes but as a reaction to the more easygoing attitudes of the 60s AND women coming out of abusive relationships (note: Andrea Dworkin) It started in the late 60s and flourished in the 70s.

Regardless, i dont know why we have to have the conversation. If i gave enough of a **** (because im gonna be banned for owning mods who think they're special..again) i'd tell you your attitudes were stuck in the 50s rather than the 70s because then i think you'd find it harder to argue about unimportant things like the decade rather than the fact you are going about with this far right fascist censorship. Oh and by the way, before you start taking me up on the point, i dont care that ideologically its not really a fascist thing. So shut the **** and up and go play in traffic you stupid nerd. (insane sith, rofl.. when you came up with that nick were you sitting at the computer looking for the best combination of letters to make you look like a fat 12 year old nerd?)
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:29 AM   #64
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Good freaking lord.

I try so hard to avoid this thread, and yet people KEEP linking to it, so I guess I'll just say a few somethings, post by post, because it's easy and I'm lazy.

Quote:
and even though I am a sexist
I'm sure you can see how you can't have a bias as nasty as this, admit and glory in it, and expect people to take your arguments seriously.

Quote:
A man's chest is not a sexual part of his body.
A woman's is? Seriously, having not exactly been raised in this culture, I can't see anything now that tells me that a woman's chest is sexual, since it isn't involved in, er, procreation. It seems to me that it's considered sexual because it's "forbidden" and must always remain covered (which pardon me, seems a bit sexist since shirtless male chests are just FINE), and are "different" - i.e. different from that which a male has, and because any female part that doesn't coincide with a male part must be sexual because women are nothing but sexual objects. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the impression I've gotten.

Quote:
It is a symbol of male dominance, which says one thing, women are nothing but sexual objects to be gawked at.
That I agree with. I don't agree with the reasoning behind it, but it is what society has made it. Saying it's a symbol of male dominance is stretching things over a wide and nasty casual chain (which is how male dominance came to be in the first place, if you know anthropology), but it's still true.

Quote:
Both are sexual parts of the body that if presented uncovered on this forum, would be considered porn.
Again, well said. (Even though again, I don't agree with the reasoning behind the labeling of "sexual parts". But just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean it's not true.)

Quote:
I can say bouncing boobs are inappropriate and still ones aren't, because bouncing boobs, as you've said yourself, are purposefully drawing your attention to them, which gives the avatar one purpose and one purpose only, "look boobs!".
Again, nail on the head. Even if breasts aren't really sexual objects, the majority of society sees them as such. Hence - "bouncing boobs" pictures like the one in question fall under sexual objectification.

Quote:
I admit, in todays society, boobs are regarded as a lesser sexual object than a penis. This doesn't change the fact that they are still sexual objects nethertheless.
Now this, to me, seems like backwards reasoning, for what should be obvious reasons. But that's not super relevant.

Quote:
What I am not able to accept, is that anyone who found that avatar to be amusing, very well made, and nice - and I was one of the people who found it all those things, to be labeled as women abusers/insulters and sexists, as your assistant pointed out.
Obi wasn't labeled that. You don't appear to mind.

Good lord, all these people registering to post pages long topics... *Scrolls*

*Scrolls down to matt's post*

*Wonders if this post is even appropriate any longer*

*After looking around a bit, decides since no new threads have been posted as he suggested, it is*

Quote:
Feminists only piss off sexists. Guess that's thier job eh? Heh.
Quote:
Or Feminist (baka...).
Both these statements are not correct. I guess you could say true feminists only piss of sexists, yes. But there's many groups of 'feminists', some of who are completely opposed to each other. It seems to me that everyone assumes every "Feminist" is the same, and everyone tends to pick what they think are universal feminist beliefs from either the "Males are universally evil/inferior" or "Male and female are created equal"...(I'm fairly sure I hit those nails, though I may have missed a bit )

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Also Taboo is the effect that drives sexuality, in some cultures breasts aren't a big deal and are shown without tops.
Much as I hate to ( ), I have to agree with what IS said. Bah, if this was a few decades earlier, we'd be spazzing over female ankles.

Quote:
Sexism to me is something I don't think lexx has ever seen, abuse of women (physical or mental) or men, simply because of which sex they are
Sexism is not just limited to abuse. Sexism is discrimination based on gender, including "attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender."

....But it seems that's already been said.

I'd like to wonder how you can possibly justify sexism in yourself, as Blackdove seems to. But maybe that's just me...

Good freaking lord, again.

I have class, and can't read the rest of this thread, so if I missed important stuff in my marathon post, feel free to, uh, shoot me. Or something less painful, hopefully.


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Old 03-25-2004, 12:42 AM   #65
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interesting redwing.. i couldn't quite see your view.. but feminist is as general a term as anarchist.

From those just campaigning for equal right (liberal feminists) to those who think they should live in seperatist lesbian communes (radical feminism) and in between anarcho-feminism, marxist-feminism, feminist-marxism, socialist-feminism and others.. none of which are going to be explained to the mods or insanesith because they wouldnt understand.
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:43 AM   #66
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Replying to Redwing

Yes of course, I do have a bias, but you said yourself that sexsism doesn't have to refer to abuse. Mine isn't very large, but yes, it's there. I thought it rather to say I am one, because I AM one, than to just simply keep silent about it and hide it. It's nothing to brag about, but I won't deny that it's true when it comes to me.

Also, I saw her posts as saying everyone on the boards was pretty much what I said I won't tolerate. Obi since he's one of the men, too of course. I just put me first, because that's what I care about here. If other people cared, they'll post it for themselves or make their own threads.

Nice to see you though I was going to relay you to the thread, but you had the busy sign on MSN.


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Old 03-25-2004, 12:47 AM   #67
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Naw, of course not, I really derailed the thread. At this point I'm just having a bit 'o fun, if nobody noticed...

But seriously, I'm quite happy. Seems that an old friend of ours has joined us under the name Phwaching? Nice alias, man. How have ya been, my former LFJA apprentice?

BlackDove, you refered to him as Reaps?

Yep, that's who I think he is...
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:53 AM   #68
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Originally posted by Phwaching
interesting redwing.. i couldn't quite see your view.. but feminist is as general a term as anarchist.

From those just campaigning for equal right (liberal feminists) to those who think they should live in seperatist lesbian communes (radical feminism) and in between anarcho-feminism, marxist-feminism, feminist-marxism, socialist-feminism and others.. none of which are going to be explained to the mods or insanesith because they wouldnt understand.
How do you know what I would understand? are you me? no. there for keep your subtle flames to yourself.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:55 AM   #69
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Yeah, because his nick at our place is Reaper.

He's here for the first time, and LF has a ton of nicks. So you shouldn't be able to know him.


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Old 03-25-2004, 12:58 AM   #70
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Oh no, I know the young sir quite well.

He's what now, 14, maybe?

And I thought I reformed you, Reaper.

And no, BlackDove, this boy has been here before...wonder why he doesn't use his old account...

And can we keep the flames down, old buddy? Not going to ban you unless I've given you at least 2 warnings...and flames only get temp bans. Then again, I don't really want to ban anyone. I'm just a poor, misguided fascist mod.
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:01 AM   #71
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Actually he's about to go into the Israeli army and is way more than 14. Definatly not your guy.


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Old 03-25-2004, 01:04 AM   #72
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Redwing;
Thank you for pointing that out, though, in my mind if I were to meet a feminist who strongly believed both men and women are/should be equal and campaign for that, I would simply see someone with the same perspective as I have on the matter...

Therefore to me that person is not a feminist....if that makes sense.

No one ever explained that factionalisation of the group, so I didn't know.

Thank you...

Someone more neutral than myself....that be rare...
I just play devils adv. too much.

...Okay so some of the people in these forums are far better than average ¬.¬
Might start posting here more....
damnit... I visit too many forums already :P

I don't really have anything more to add just yet, just waiting for Lexx's comment(s) and then begin to round up and decide...heh...


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Old 03-25-2004, 01:06 AM   #73
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SWP ~ Why are you on a fan/gaming forum while you are in school?
That in itself is instantly inappropriate.

Forums, out right, are banned in every school and college I ever attended. It was only university that didn't mind, and, that's typically because there was something like 3 hour gaps between some of my lectures.
I never said I was on the forums during class, but I do visit the forums if I'm bored during lunch, or if I have nothing to do during 3rd period webteam.

And if forums are banned, I'm sure it would be filtered. It's not, so I really don't care if they were not allowed in your schools.

I notice no one is bothering to do what matt suggested. It would certainly get this over with, and end this sad debate.
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:10 AM   #74
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Originally posted by BlackDove
Actually he's about to go into the Israeli army and is way more than 14. Definatly not your guy.
So he's leaving England to go fight for the Israels?

And don't play smart, boy - his IP leads to England.
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:13 AM   #75
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Ehh, I'll have him explain, I'm not really _sure_ what he's going to do in Israel, but I know it'll be of some help for the general human race. (must have missinterperted what we were talking about on our forums)


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Old 03-25-2004, 01:15 AM   #76
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Originally posted by Jed
So he's leaving England to go fight for the Israels?

And don't play smart, boy - his IP leads to England.
You ****ing king of retards. Im making aliyah post university. Im leaving for Israel in September. Perhaps Israel means more to me than the country i live in right now? try using your ****ing brain.

And no, i dont nor have i ever posted before on these forums. Im doing BD a favour, and im also enjoying flaming defenceless mods (on the internet wits and intelligence are your defences, and you clearly slept in the day God was handing those out). Nice one trying to be clever and imply im someone who you've owned before, but lets be honest here.. you havent got a chance in hell of even mildly insulting me, let alone owning me.
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:16 AM   #77
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Originally posted by StarWarsPhreak
I never said I was on the forums during class, but I do visit the forums if I'm bored during lunch, or if I have nothing to do during 3rd period webteam.

And if forums are banned, I'm sure it would be filtered. It's not, so I really don't care if they were not allowed in your schools.

I notice no one is bothering to do what matt suggested. It would certainly get this over with, and end this sad debate.
Lastly proving you don't know what we're debating, because what matt suggested got us about half through the end of the debate.

Thank you and have a nice day at your school, where I'm sure no doubt you will be arrested, and thrown in jail for 5 months because you were viewing the forums with an avatar that has bouncing boobs.

Please grow up.


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Old 03-25-2004, 01:17 AM   #78
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Originally posted by InsaneSith
How do you know what I would understand? are you me? no. there for keep your subtle flames to yourself.
this forum clearly forgot to place the idiot filter on today. Saying that YOU WONT UNDERSTAND what i am saying about feminism WOULD BE AN OVERT FLAME. I AM CALLING YOU STUPID.

S T U P I D

comprendes? maricones!
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:24 AM   #79
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In my confusion i askked BD was LFJA is. ROFL! You sad sad nerds. You get to pretend to be Jedis.. think i saw a video of that once, young bloke, roleplaying a jedi knight. Think it might still be around. Search the net for star wars kid

Jed, you're gonna have to try harder. Implying that I would roleplay some faggot ass monk who has a fat sword but talks about peace and love is kind of amusing. You almost succeeded in bringing a grin to my face. Of course, that was more to do with the fact that i know you roleplay. Which means you are a Star wars fan who mods a star wars forum and roleplays. Your avatar is bill gates. you post like a complete moron. I dont even know where to start!
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:29 AM   #80
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Originally posted by BlackDove
Lastly proving you don't know what we're debating, because what matt suggested got us about half through the end of the debate.

Thank you and have a nice day at your school, where I'm sure no doubt you will be arrested, and thrown in jail for 5 months because you were viewing the forums with an avatar that has bouncing boobs.

Please grow up.
What are we debating? Bouncing boobs, a bouncing penis, sexism, how you convinced a little girl to have sex with you, how to raise children, the "art" of sex, our "incompetent" super moderators, "Reaps" going to Israel, Jed a retard, or "Phwaching's" undoubtful future ban?

This is stupid, and you don't really strike me as remarkable either.

I'm sure you need to grow up as well.
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