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Old 05-27-2004, 07:34 AM   #1
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Occupation has boosted al-Qaida, says thinktank

The occupation of Iraq has provided a "potent global recruitment pretext" for al-Qaida and probably increased worldwide terrorism, a leading thinktank said yesterday.

Despite some losses, al-Qaida has more than 18,000 potential terrorists at large and its ranks are growing, the International Institute for Strategic Studies said, adding that al-Qaida now had a presence in more than 60 countries.

full article

In the interests of balance I should point out that the Guardian is a left leaning paper which was fairly anti the war. However they are a well respected broadsheet, and not one of the untrustworthy UK tabloid papers.



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Old 05-28-2004, 02:43 AM   #2
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I'm not surprised, I was fairly certain this would happen. There is simply no way to stop terrorism, and wars typically only piss off more people giving them a larger recruiting base.



We sure did handle things well didn't we.



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Old 05-28-2004, 10:15 AM   #3
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I do wonder how they come up with the numbers for these organisations i imagine there are a lot of what ifs I cant imagine its a if your a terorist raise your hand!
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Old 05-28-2004, 10:57 AM   #4
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I don't care to discuss politics as some of you might know, but I'll make a blunt general statement about this whole terrorism and east vs west issue.

Now, I don't care to discuss politics because politics and politicians are rarely pure, very rarely. They're obscured by corruption, hidden agendas and (re-)election motives. There is no pure democracy; the people of the socalled "free world" are being manipulated through the media to a much higher degree than they care to admit. But the best tool of manipulation is of course ignorance - it's the good old saying "what people don't know, won't hurt them". So by keeping us in the dark and redirecting focus, we don't go around in our daily lives worrying much about polution, overpopulation and the fact that the old:young citizen ratio of the "civilized" world is rapidly getting to the point, where the work force needs to work more for the support of the elderly and retired than for themselves and their children.

Already I'm ranting my head off. OK, back to focus. To put it short and sweet: Oil is the main factor for any and all US involvement in the Middle East. The US trained and supported individuals that would later turn against them when they no longer received US support because these individuals had outplayed their role for the US. Oil is sadly where the money is and conservative, powerful republican forces in the US will have it staying so for as long as they can even though the gasoline-driven engine is over 60 years outdated technology. And as long as they can keep the average american happy with Monday Night Football (not to neglect Super Bowl), and as long as they can keep the average young american male lusting for a fancy, roaring combustion engine car since it obviously equals getting laid, then they are succeeding. Thus they will keep needing the Middle East oil, thus they will keep involving themselves (apparently overtly forcefully) in Middle East affairs, thus the Middle East will keep hating the US for bossing them around; first playing one side then the other.

I've been pointing my finger at the US through this but I realize they're are only the bigger target to blame; Europe, or parts of it, is along for the ride. And make no mistake, I do not target the entire US and European population in general. I target the old, conservative oil industry, who out of greed keeps us in a poluting, technological stone age with regards to civil and commercial transport, and the sad thing is that through democracy and a little wakeup call we could change the world for the healthier - no doubt a big change but one worthwhile.

Without the finer strokes this is the bigger picture and if anyone even dares to say it isn't so, then I'd hope you are a member of a very minor minority regarding views on this matter, else woe is our world. Ever tried asking yourself why parts of the Middle East hate us so. Envy? I don't think so. Religion? Nope, wrong again - merely a dogmatic tool for the demagogs down there. What then? Could it be that we out of greed have meddled a bit too much in affairs that did not concern us and now it has come around to bite ourselves in the proverbial arse?

'nuff.


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Old 05-29-2004, 08:00 AM   #5
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Personally i think it is a combination of a number of factors.

THe two main reasons for US involvement in the middle east are:

Oil - keeping the price low for the us industry/consumer. Although they already pay 1/2 waht most other countries pay.

Israel - with the history from the war, and other factors, the jewish lobby is a hugely powerful interest group in washington and no party is willing to get on the wrong side of them.

THe main reasons for anti US feeling are:

History: Much of the trouble of that region (and the rest of the world) were created by the imposition of rulers and states by the british empire, and later the US. Iraq was basically aritficially created by the west, forcing different ethnic andreligious groups into a country that didn't fit, then imposing a puppet leader. It is no surprise that people rebelled, and no surprise a hardline leader arose.

Religion: Islam is (kind of) at the stage that christianity was a few hundreds of years ago. Hardline. Unbending. It also has different values to us, aming it hard for us to understand each other. It also stresses religion as being at the hart of government, and that the nation of islam superceeds the nation states. Upset one lot of muslims and you upset them all.

Unfairness: The US supports some undemocatic allies (saudi arabia, israel, etc..) no matter what, then condemns others for similar offences. This is seen as self interest and favouritism.
US troops in Saudi Arabia proping up the undemocratic leadership was THE MAIN REASON al quaida started in the first place.

Israell: THe US's blind support for israel no matter what (and therefore implicit siding against palestine) is probably the major factor, and plays into all the points above.

Suporting the lesser of 2 evils: Throughout history the US has supported one evil against another, and it ALWAYS comes back to bite them on the butt. Trained Al Quaida against russia. Supported Saddam against iran. etc...

Isolationism/Unfair trade: In protecting US interests (and the EU is just as bad) western countries have unfair subsidies for their farmers etc.. and unfair rules and tarriffs for those in the developing world, this means they do all the work and see non of the profit.
---

However the point with terrorism is that it doesn't just arrise from nothing. People aren't just willing to kill and be killed for the fun of it. It may well be people like bin-laden exploit the situation, but they need a feeling of persecution and unfairness to exist amongst the general population for them to flourish.

Chopping off the heads does no good if you don't address this underlying feeling. Repeating the errors of the past just makes things worse.



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Old 05-31-2004, 10:26 AM   #6
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Thumbs up agree

I agree with the general idea that the occupation has made it easier for the terrorsit to recruit and conduct their business.

no doubt.


But of course those who said this 'war' was a bad idea knew this would be the case from the begining.

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