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Old 10-05-2004, 05:22 PM   #41
Nairb Notneb
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Well, GL use to be very wary about the EU. I heard a story of when Tops trading cards made a card of "Yodas" that had a lot of information about his species on it with several other beings just like him on it. Evidently GL had a major "cow" and the card was never produced. Now he seems to be holding its hand at least with the prequels. He brought in Aeyla Secura from the EU, he didn't create her and that's odd for GL. Unless he has a thing for blue women.


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Old 10-05-2004, 06:14 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
Vostok do you claim to know most things in the subjects which you claim to be a scholar of?
Well yes, since the only thing I claim to be a Scholar of is Star Wars, and I know everything about Star Wars (movies).

Nairb, indeed for the most part George Lucas rejects EU. Yet there is the odd case of one or two things he has taken from the EU:
1) Aayla Secura (the blue female Twi'lek Jedi)
2) The name Coruscant
and possibly some others I can't think of right now. But these elements are fairly minor and are not wholly created separately from George Lucas; Lucas certainly created the Twi'lek race, and the inclusion of a nameless (within the movie) Twi'lek character is entirely acceptable. And since Lucas had already created the concept of a planet-wide city for the Imperial Capital in early drafts of Return of the Jedi, only the name Coruscant is not his creation.


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Old 10-05-2004, 07:41 PM   #43
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Well, as far as i know there are three EU things Lucas put into the films.

1. Aayla Secura - apparently he saw her on a comic or something and though she was great, hence her appearance in Ep2

2. Coruscant - while Lucas already had the concept of a planet-wide city before the prequels, the name came from Zahn

3. Outrider - in both the 97 VHS and 2004 DVD editions of ANH, you can see the Outrider from 'Shadows of the Empire' leaving the Mos Eisley Spaceport


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Old 10-06-2004, 12:47 AM   #44
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Like I said earlier though in the case of EP 3 the EU will be vital in explaining several things about the clone wars. In this respect i feel sorry for GL because he has to do loads of chazracter development to link the PT to the OT when i can imagine loads of people would rather see a few battles from the clone wars instead and then have some character development happen there.

and what about the other things you said you did do you claim to know everything or most things about those?


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Old 10-06-2004, 06:34 AM   #45
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GL is developing General Grievous's character in the Boba Fett Scholastic Book series after introducing him the Clone Wars cartoon. I think that's a lot of fun, or at least a big tease. Its an odd move for him, unexpected, but no matter. It is what I believe all a part of his marketing genius.

Here is a new super character that will undoubtedly woo the fans and leave them breathless and wanting more. What does he do, wet their appetites and begin the ringing of Pavlov's bell, which in the Star Wars realm is the EU for many people. Say what you will about Lucas' movie making, but I admire his business sense and handling of his little Star Wars empire he has created. He is his own Emperor.


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Old 10-06-2004, 07:43 AM   #46
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Like I said earlier though in the case of EP 3 the EU will be vital in explaining several things about the clone wars.
I wouldn't say "vital". EU will do as it's always done, fill in the less important gaps. There is no doubt that Episode III will be self contained; you won't need to read a single word of EU to figure out what's going on. Sure, it doesn't show the complete battles of the Clone Wars, but the fact is the characters are the important part, not the battles.
Quote:
and what about the other things you said you did do you claim to know everything or most things about those? [/B]
Read my post again, it's all explained there quite clearly what I am and am not an expert of.


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Old 10-07-2004, 02:57 AM   #47
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All of the movies stand without the EU, and ROTS will be the same. In contrast, the EU is nothing without the movies. Don't get the proverbial cart before the horse here. EU is fun, don't get me wrong, and it gave us all something to do during that 20 some years of Star Wars silence before we all went back in time. We all should be thankful for the EU because the proceeds from it helped GL finance his little venture into the Prequels, so it has served its purpose regardless if any of us like it or not. It has also helped to generated many more fans and has helped to sustain the "fanship" of others with short attention spans and little imaginations. It has also added to the entertainment of those with a vivid imagination, long attention span and to those that lack a social life (I cringe at the Star Wars geek stereo types, and I am offended by them, it is a form of discrimination)


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Old 10-07-2004, 05:02 AM   #48
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The movies started this Empire but they certainly will not sustain it. After ROTS, EU will be all thats left accept it or not but it is the truth.

I don't think Greivous will play a huge role they have alot more to do then introduce a new character who has really nothing to do with Anakin's transformation to the darkside.


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Old 10-07-2004, 08:42 AM   #49
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We all should be thankful for the EU because the proceeds from it helped GL finance his little venture into the Prequels
Just clearing something up here. EU did not help George Lucas fund the prequels. The three original Star Wars made George Lucas a multi-millionaire, with ticket sales and merchandising combined. This was before any serious EU was developed as part of the merchandising. Also, since he owns some of the most successful companies in Hollywood (THX, ILM, Skywalker Sound, etc) he is not going to be short of extra cash. Finally, a large part of the money for The Phantom Menace came from the Special Edition releases (and in turn The Phantom Menace helped fund Attack of the Clones, and Attack of the Clones helped fund Revenge of the Sith).

So while I understand that EU is fun, don't for one second think that Star Wars as a whole owes anything to it.
Quote:
I don't think Greivous will play a huge role they have alot more to do then introduce a new character who has really nothing to do with Anakin's transformation to the darkside.
Well I have a theory about Greivous that makes him more than just a new character, and indeed if I'm right he will have a lot to do with Anakin's transformation. I won't reveal my theory though in case I'm wrong


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Old 10-07-2004, 09:26 AM   #50
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That's what theoris are for to be proved right or wrong don't be afraid of being wrong because that's usually nothing new around here.

Besides it'll help bring some more life to the forum so do it quick before it keels over again.


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Old 10-08-2004, 02:51 AM   #51
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I agree with Viceroy Vostok, you should publish your theory. If your wrong so what who cares. I've been discussing a big theory about GG in the Star Wars forum for a long time now about GG. Somebody said that he might be Maul based on a little bit that he read on the official website and based on a picture that he saw that had Maul's upper half on a robot's lower half that looked like a battle droid. It was a cool pic, sort of. The other theory is that GG is Sifo-Dyas (Spelling). I hope I didn't bust your bubble but the early bird gets the Jedi. Here is the link to our discussion.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...89#post1654189


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Old 10-08-2004, 03:13 AM   #52
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I would have thought Sifo-Dyas was just another guise of Sidious/Palpatine.
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Old 10-08-2004, 03:21 AM   #53
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It's possible and most likely, but

spoiler:

it is possible that General Grievous used to be Syfo-Dyas, or at least alot of people thing that.



Follow the link for a long discussion


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Old 10-08-2004, 05:05 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Well I have a theory about Greivous that makes him more than just a new character, and indeed if I'm right he will have a lot to do with Anakin's transformation. I won't reveal my theory though in case I'm wrong
Oh come on... we don't have anything to discuss...

... please?


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Old 10-08-2004, 11:39 PM   #55
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See I'm right for as usual Everyone agrees with me that you should spiel of this theory of yours since darth is right we don't really have anything to talk about.

So do it quick Vostok before this Forum DIES AGAIN


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Old 10-11-2004, 02:20 PM   #56
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Sorry, I've been away for the weekend. I would have posted my theory up sooner otherwise since there is so much request.
Quote:
Somebody said that he might be Maul based on a little bit that he read on the official website and based on a picture that he saw that had Maul's upper half on a robot's lower half that looked like a battle droid. It was a cool pic, sort of. The other theory is that GG is Sifo-Dyas (Spelling).
Well I haven't read much about Greivous' identity, since I usually don't visit many other Star Wars forums than this one, but these two ideas are interesting. But if you like either of those theories you'll love my theory:
spoiler:
General Greivous IS Darth Maul IS Sifo-Dyas!

The part I'm most confident about is the Darth Maul/Sifo-Dyas connection, which few others have made. Many were disappointed that Maul only appeared briefly in The Phantom Menace, and indeed when you consider that in Star Wars nearly all the major characters are incredibly important to the fate of the Universe, Maul's quick death was strange. Even Boba Fett's role in the Universe was expanded hugely, so it seems strange that Maul is rather inconsequential in the scheme of things. If he is in fact Sifo-Dyas it expands his character hugely so he becomes a lot more significant.

When Jango Fett says he was recruited by a man named Tyranus (obviously Darth Tyranus/Count Dooku) it seems obvious the Clone Army was a plan of the Sith from the beginning. Many people believe because of this that Sifo-Dyas is in fact Darth Sidious. I disagree. Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi whom other people knew. Presumably they also knew what he looked like. Obviously Sidious=Palpatine, so clearly he can't have the guise of both Palpatine and Sifo-Dyas (since the Jedi would see them as the same person). For similar reasons we know that Sifo-Dyas is not just another name for Dooku; both Count Dooku and Sifo-Dyas were once Jedi, and were obviously not the same person.

So that leaves only Darth Maul, the only other Sith Lord. Is it a coincidence that Sifo-Dyas and Darth Maul both died ten years before Geonosis? I think not. I also used to wonder why the EU said Maul's markings were tattoos rather than his natural skin colouring. The EU said it was to show his devotion to the dark side, but obviously that is rediculous or Sidious, Tyranus and Vader (all three far more advanced than Maul) would also wear tattoos. My theory gives way to a far better explanation: Maul uses the tattoos to disguise his true identity of Sifo-Dyas. Without the tattoos and the red eyes and the bad teeth Maul would look very different. So I think either Sifo-Dyas faked his death to permanently take on the identity of Darth Maul, or that the tattoos were not permanent and instead enabled Maul to pose as either Sifo-Dyas or Darth Maul, and that when Maul died Sifo-Dyas died too.

Now, the more I heard of General Greivous, the more my Maul/Sifo-Dyas theory made sense, in conjunction with Greivous. If all three characters were one in the same, it would further make Darth Maul a far better character, and indeed in terms of the story it would be probably the best way to reveal that Maul and Sifo-Dyas were the same. I read an article somewhere that Greivous would remove his faceplate to reveal his face in Episode III... why do this if not to reveal his true identity?


Well I hope you enjoyed my theory. Poke holes in it if you will, but I like it.


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Old 10-11-2004, 05:44 PM   #57
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spoiler:

I don't see how Darth Maul is Sifo-Dyas. As EU said, Darth Maul had the Tattoos to show his devotion. It is obviously not his skin color since we see other Zabrack Jedi tattooless.

Maybe Grevious is Sifo-Dyas or Darth Maul. I don't think they're the same. I think I remember reading that Palpatine discovered Maul and trained him.

Quote:
The EU said it was to show his devotion to the dark side, but obviously that is rediculous or Sidious, Tyranus and Vader (all three far more advanced than Maul) would also wear tattoos.
Well, Vader had his feared Armor, and Dooku doesn't seem to be the type to tattoo himself, neither does Palpatine. Perhaps the tattoo is a Zabrak tradition to show devotion? That's the main part of your theory I'm poking :
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Old 10-11-2004, 07:46 PM   #58
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Is that all you've got, Phreak?
spoiler:
Quote:
Well, Vader had his feared Armor
You obviously forgot the part where his helmet was removed to reveal no tattoos.
Quote:
and Dooku doesn't seem to be the type to tattoo himself, neither does Palpatine.
But the tattoos are to show devotion, not as a fashion statement. Dooku and Palpatine are both more advanced and thus presumably more devoted.
Quote:
Perhaps the tattoo is a Zabrak tradition to show devotion?
Then why does Eeth Koth, a member of the Jedi Council, not have tattoos?[/QUOTE]
To that end, can you EUFans please explain something to me:
spoiler:
How can EU possibly claim that Darth Maul and Eeth Koth are of the same species? They might both have horns, but that is where the similarities end. Their horns are differently shaped, differently arranged, of different numbers and different types than each other. Yet another piece of Star Wars mangled by an incompetant EU writer who doesn't watch the movies.

So Phreak, you didn't really poke any holes in what I said. George Lucas can change EU: he has done it in the past. The theories of Greivous' identity must come purely from the movies, which are the less tangible and thus more reliable texts. Do not use EU to poke holes in my theory, because EU is already riddled with holes.


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Old 10-11-2004, 09:12 PM   #59
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Quote:
How can EU possibly claim that Darth Maul and Eeth Koth are of the same species? They might both have horns, but that is where the similarities end. Their horns are differently shaped, differently arranged, of different numbers and different types than each other. Yet another piece of Star Wars mangled by an incompetant EU writer who doesn't watch the movies.
Why are there people with Black skin? Asians? Whites?

Just because Maul tattooed himself to show devotion to his master, doesn;t mean the rest have to. It could very well be a personal preference. The tattoos have nothing to do with "rank."

Quote:
Then why does Eeth Koth, a member of the Jedi Council, not have tattoos?
Well, maybe because Eeth Koth isn;t a Sith Lord?


I'll use whatever reasoning I want to use.
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Old 10-12-2004, 02:47 AM   #60
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One problem with the Maul theory. Lucas says in the commentary of TPM that the reason he had Obi-Wan cut Maul in half is so that everybody would know that Maul could not possibly come back. GL said that Maul is not coming back.

However, there is a giant hole in my argument. That hole is George Lucas himself. George has just proven that not only can he change his own mind, but that he can change his own 20+ year old movies as well. If he so desires Maul to suffer from a "split" personality of sorts, then "So be it, Jedi".

Then Mr. Vostok, in order for your theory to be true Maul would have to have been . . .

trained as a Jedi on Corascant and known by the other Jedi. If this is true, then it means that Palpatine had a habit of recruiting (at least three) apprentices from the ranks of the Jedi and never got caught until it was to late. A question it brings up to me is, who was his master? If all of this is true then Maul's bio is completely wrong, which is fine because it is only EU and there is nothing static about that, it is insignificant and can be changed at any time.


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Old 10-12-2004, 07:06 AM   #61
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Few comments to the discussion...

1) The suggestion of Maul being the only available Sith Lord isn't necessarily true. I brought this up on another discussion so I won't go into it in detail, but the jist is that just because Yoda indicates that the Sith tradition is 1 master/1 apprentice, doesn't mean that Sidious is playing by the rules. It's possible both Maul and Dooku (and for that matter, any number of other people) were apprentices to Sidious at the same time.

2) While Maul may have been cloaking his identity, it's possible that Quigon and/or Obiwan would have detected a familiar presence when facing Maul had Maul been a Jedi Master. No detection was indicated in the movies. Pure speculation, of course, but then so is the whole theory.

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Old 10-12-2004, 07:50 AM   #62
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I'd Like to think Of General Grevious as Seperate from Jedi and sith yes He has been trained to use a lightsabre But wait he might not have been if you watch it being done long enough you can usually manage to do some of it by yourself and make a few techniques of your own.

Maul WIll not be comming back If you hit yoyur head enough going at high speed's when going down a tube of unknown length then chances are you'll be dead by the time you get to the bottom of it since no Star Wars technology in Star Wars as a whole purports to raise the dead Nothing even touches on the subject and jedi or sith if your in agony you can't concentrate so you can't use the force it's a similar concept to how Obi wan was imprisoned on Geonosis so he can't have slowed himself down and if anyone wants to dispute being in agony then I invite them to get sliced in half and thrown down a huge tube and bang their head several times.

I Like to think Of Grevious as an unknown but i'll venture forward some theories. I think he was a General during the some intermitent conflict before the battle of naboo and that as he got increasingly injured he replaced several of his componnents with Mechanical components. This is also disproves the theory of him being maul because I've read quite a lot of the design breifs for Grevious and only 5% of his body is organic being Brain Nervous system and I think Face perhaps. Therefore he can't be maul because his legs were cut off and so a whole lot of trouble would have to be gone through to give him back his nerves and as you become more droid your ability to use the force is diminished and i'm not talking about replacing your arms and legs If you were a human head on a robot body then you wouldn't be able to manipulate the force very well since you couldn't exacrtly feel it and you certainly wouldn't have midichlorians in your blood because you wouldn't have much blood at all if not some sort of substitute.

It could also be that Grevious is some experiment of Sidious' and that he could have been created using his own DNA in an attempt to create the perfect General because what better way to ensure loyalty then to use a droid or a clone of yourself.

I'll accept that some of the design breifs I've read could quite easily be subject to change but I think this late now they'll stick with that figure since changing him radically will mean that they have to change the model's and all the book's that with George's blessing to adapt to the new details. I think some of them are already out if they are I'll pounce on them and check.


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Old 10-12-2004, 08:30 AM   #63
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Viceroy:
Your post is too hard to comprehend. Consider using punction marks, in particular commas (,) and full stops/periods (.) to construct readable sentences.

Phreak:
Quote:
Why are there people with Black skin? Asians? Whites?
I'm not talking about the tattoos and skin colours, I'm talking about the horns. Such radically different bone structures could not be from the same species.
Quote:
Well, maybe because Eeth Koth isn;t a Sith Lord?
I didn't say he was. If you read my post again, you'll see I was responding to your claim that tattoos may be a Zabrak way of showing devotion. If you're now changing your idea to tattoos being only a sign of devotion if you are both a Sith Lord and a Zabrak, I find that even more amusing.

Nairb:
Indeed it is true that George said Maul was well and truly dead, but as you said he has been known to change his mind. I should point out Lucas is also famous for misleading fans on purpose.

And yes, my theory assumes Maul was not only trained in the Jedi Temple, but was even a part of the Jedi Council.

Kryllith:
1) It's true that Sifo-Dyas may be someone we don't know about, but there is also another factor I'm counting on: decent storytelling. Sifo-Dyas must be someone we already know, or the revelation of his true identity will be so anti-climactic it will be a joke.
2) If Palpatine can hide his true identity from the most powerful Jedi in the Universe, I'm sure Maul can hide his from Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, especially when he's got them concentrating more on their lightsaber skills. Remember, "hard to see, the Dark Side is".

Everyone:
Of course, the most important thing you have to do when considering my theory is to forget everything EU has told you. If everything in EU is to be taken as gospel, then yes, my theory doesn't work. But as we all now George Lucas is not bound by EU; quite a few things that cropped up in the EU after The Phantom Menace were summarily dismissed in Attack Of The Clones. If we just look at the evidence that is presented to us in the movies, my theory is quite possible.


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Old 10-12-2004, 08:55 AM   #64
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Vostok, I agree. Taking the EU as gospel is a very bad idea because it is not. Only the movies are gospel and even they can be changed by the will of the Force himself, George Lucas. In discussing this theory of Mr. Maul being GG, I had automatically and immediately taking it that Maul was not GG because GL said Maul would not be returning. However, this was said after TPM. Several things have changed since then. AOTC has come out and ROTS is about to come out. GL also said that there are only three light saber colors and that their colors will be explained in Episode Two. Both of these items changed. Now we have a purple light saber (really only because Samuel Jackson negotiated for it in his acting contract) and the movies have yet to explain the colors.

My point, is that GL has a history of changing his mind and his "official" statements of what is to come and not to come even on seemingly trivial items. Do not discount Mauls return yet until ROTS is over.

If Maul is GG this aids the story of Anakin quite well I believe. It shows us early on in this episode that a person can be injured at a next to death experience (especially by the hands of Obi Wan) and be put back together by Palpatine. It is foreshadowing Anakin's transformation into Vader later on in the episode and it arch's many items from previous episodes, something Lucas has done often in all five movies so far.

Here is a link you should follow. It is an interesting read. And a cool pick.


http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004...s20040803.html


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Old 10-12-2004, 09:51 AM   #65
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EU Is of course to be taken as Gosphel and I Won't Accept ANY Arguments WHATSOEVER to the contrary.


Despite the fact that it's a hallmark of being in a rush trying not to get caught by a facist ICT teacher while posting on the fourm something is naturally going to go out of the window so for the benefit of those who don't try i'll translate it.

I'd Like to think Of General Grevious as Seperate from Jedi and sith, yes He has been trained to use a lightsabre But wait he might not have been if you watch it being done long enough you can usually manage to do some of it by yourself and make a few techniques of your own.

Maul WIll not be comming back If you hit your head enough going at high speed's when going down a tube of unknown length then chances are you'll be dead by the time you get to the bottom of it.

Since no Star Wars technology in Star Wars as a whole purports to raise the dead Nothing even touches on the subject and jedi or sith if your in agony you can't concentrate so you can't use the force. It's a similar concept to how Obi wan was imprisoned on Geonosis so Maul couldn't have slowed himself down.





If anyone wants to dispute being in agony then I invite them to get sliced in half and thrown down a huge tube and bang their head several times.




I Like to think Of Grevious as an unknown but i'll venture forward some theories.

I think he was a General during the some intermitent conflict before the battle of naboo and that as he got increasingly injured he replaced several of his componnents with Mechanical components. This is also disproves the theory of him being maul because I've read quite a lot of the design breifs for Grevious and only 5% of his body is organic being Brain Nervous system and I think Face perhaps. The figure has went up to as much as 10% and as low as 2% but since i've seen 5% quoted the most I think it's safe to say at this late stage that's gonna be the final figure.

Therefore he can't be maul because his legs were cut off and so a whole lot of trouble would have to be gone through to give him back his nerves and as you become more droid your ability to use the force is diminished and i'm not talking about replacing your arms and legs If you were a human head on a robot body then you wouldn't be able to manipulate the force very well since you couldn't exacrtly feel it and you certainly wouldn't have midichlorians in your blood because you wouldn't have much blood at all if not some sort of substitute.

It could also be that Grevious is some experiment of Sidious' and that he could have been created using his own DNA in an attempt to create the perfect General because what better way to ensure loyalty then to use a droid or a clone of yourself.

I'll accept that some of the design breifs I've read could quite easily be subject to change but I think this late now they'll stick with that figure since changing him radically will mean that they have to change the model's and all the book's that with George's blessing to adapt to the new details. I think some of them are already out if they are I'll pounce on them and check.

Though one idea i just had now that Grevious could actually be a clone of Qui-Gon manipulated through the force indeed that certainly would be a revaltation and certainly climatic I doubt anyone could debate that.

They could however doubt the likelyhood but on the other hand how many people expected the Death Star would be involved with the Geo's which Personally I think is the Biggest Continuity Error ever and was propably only put in as some burning desire to wave the death star around on a stick.


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Old 10-12-2004, 10:55 AM   #66
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Woah, my head hurts now Too many different theories!

I must admit that I was quite surprised when I saw Maul's death in Ep 1. And like it was said, it's quite strange that a "major" character only appears in a single movie. I put major in quotation marks because he only has 2 lines or so in the movie, and he doesn't really have a personality either.

Then of course you could say that Qui-Gon, who's a major character (more important than Maul), is also only in one movie (except for the possible communication between him and Obi in ROTS, and the very small quote in AoTC).

As for Viceroy's theory about Qui-Gon, I say

And why having the DS shown in AotC is a continuity error? The Separatists obviously developed it under Dooku's (and therefore Palp's) orders. I don't see any problem with that : we don't have any official info about the origins of the DS in the classics.


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Old 10-12-2004, 11:01 AM   #67
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Viceroy, that was slightly easier to read so I put the effort in.

Quote:
EU Is of course to be taken as Gosphel and I Won't Accept ANY Arguments WHATSOEVER to the contrary.
If George Lucas feels he can ignore it then it is not gospel. I can't understand how you could possibly not accept that argument.

Quote:
Maul WIll not be comming back If you hit your head enough going at high speed's when going down a tube of unknown length then chances are you'll be dead by the time you get to the bottom of it [...] Since no Star Wars technology in Star Wars as a whole purports to raise the dead Nothing even touches on the subject [...]
I think it is within the realm of possibility within the Star Wars Universe that Maul could be resurrected. Yes, there is no evidence of technology that raises the dead, and as such it is obviously not common. I think it is possible that this is a perverse technology that is really just an experimental technique that was used by the Separatist forces to resurrect Maul. It relates back to the story of Frankenstein, or at least to the interpretations of Frankenstein presented in the British Hammer Horror films, which George Lucas is a fan of. If Maul's dead brain could be recovered perhaps it could be wired in to a droid body and reanimated? It would seem that Darth Vader's life support suit is the only one in existence in the Star Wars Universe, so it's entirely possible that another technological marvel - the melding of creature and machine in another more perverse way - is also a one-off, unique occurence in Star Wars.

All I'm saying is it is not outside the realm of what could possibly happen in Star Wars, and indeed since it ties in with some of Lucas' known inspirations it is entirely possible.
Quote:
Therefore he can't be maul because his legs were cut off and so a whole lot of trouble would have to be gone through to give him back his nerves and as you become more droid your ability to use the force is diminished and i'm not talking about replacing your arms and legs If you were a human head on a robot body then you wouldn't be able to manipulate the force very well since you couldn't exacrtly feel it and you certainly wouldn't have midichlorians in your blood because you wouldn't have much blood at all if not some sort of substitute.
Apparently you are unfamiliar with the fact that Vader is "more machine than man" and can still weild the Force with incredible power. Force weilding comes from the mind; as long as that is in tact the ability to use the Force is too.
Quote:
Though one idea i just had now that Grevious could actually be a clone of Qui-Gon manipulated through the force indeed that certainly would be a revaltation and certainly climatic I doubt anyone could debate that.
Indeed that is an interesting concept; though if you are going down the clone path then through the same logic Greivous could be a clone of Maul. However I personally don't believe any of the major characters will have clones of themselves (except Jango for obvious reasons) because in Star Wars technology is just the background for the story, and not an integral part of the story in itself. For example although armies of Clones and Droids are fighting each other it is not important for the story that they are clones or droids, just that they are an army. However this is just my opinion; I suppose it is possible for Qui-Gon to be cloned but I don't think clones of anyone other than Jango Fett will feature.
Quote:
They could however doubt the likelyhood but on the other hand how many people expected the Death Star would be involved with the Geo's which Personally I think is the Biggest Continuity Error ever and was propably only put in as some burning desire to wave the death star around on a stick.
Well as we demonstrated in before the Death Star being designed by Geonosians is not a continuity error. You're making several assumptions that aren't supported by the movies, but were you to make different assumptions then there is no continuity error.

[EDIT:] Nairb replied whilst I was writing this epic post, so just a quick response to him:
For me it is precisely Maul's apparent lack of character that fuels my theory. What better way to make him a proper, fully significant character? As for Qui-Gon, it is true that he is only in one movie, but his character has still been extended beyond that movie. The most shocking revelation of Qui-Gon's character was that he was in fact Count Dooku's padawan! But at any rate, Qui-Gon's character was greatly developed throughout The Phantom Menace and continues to develop after his death; since Maul had nearly no character development in The Phantom Menace, such a huge development as this after his death would be fantastic.


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Old 10-12-2004, 12:17 PM   #68
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What We REALLY need is a complete shot of the good or should i say bad General so we can have a gander at his leg's to see if that's a possibility

Apparently You are missing the Backbone of what I was saying in refernce to the body It is widely Disputed about how much of Vader is Machine I however suscribe to the theory that He has the arm we know about from AoTC part of his other arm half on one leg and all of one leg as Articifcial I could however be wrong but He would still have plenty of organic parts of his body to have blood and therefore Midi chlorians to flow through which if you need movie proof for.................

I'll bring Qui-Gon out of the Cupboard of Possible Greviouses and use some of his words about the Midi Chlorians being directly linked to the manipulation of the force and since the Midi Chlorians are in the blood something that is nearly all machine will propably not have blood but more likely some substitue since What is the point on blood if you don't have a heart to pump it round?

Though Personally and I Think some people agree with me that EP 1 would have been better off without this Midi Chlorine babble but for the moment it suits my purposes.

Though Vostok would You think a Droid had a mind and if it did would it be able to manipulate the force?


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Old 10-12-2004, 02:18 PM   #69
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Well I agree with you but I'm not sure where you are going with your argument. Who said General Grievous could manipulate the Force? There isn't any evidence he has Force-senstivity. Sure he can supposedly lightsaber duel pretty well according to the Clone Wars cartoons, but that isn't necessarily purely a Force-related ability. In fact since one of Maul's greatest abilities was his duelling, perhaps this is the reason he was reanimated as Greivous: duelling is probably a skill he would retain after reanimation, although Force ability may not be carried over.

I should also point out that Midiclorians are not linked to manipulation of the Force. They are linked to sensitivity of the Force. Midiclorians are "constantly telling us the will of the Force". It would seem possible to me that you can still manipulate the Force just as effectively with a low Midiclorian count, but "communication" with the Force (for example, seeing into the future or communicating telepathically) would be harder to do. Keep in mind every living thing has Midiclorians, whether they can manipulate the Force or not.


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Old 10-12-2004, 03:24 PM   #70
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Vostok, think of my preference of the EU like religion. It is really hard to change someone's religous belief, and just because you don't believe in my religion, that doesn't mean it is false.


Now, if Grevious was perhaps created with DNA from Darth Maul, I might go with your theory a bit more...


As for the Maul/Dyas... it would be quite a pain to have to re-apply and remove the tattooes each time he changes role. Don't forget he has to change his dentures too! Maul may be able to hide his dark prescense, but do you think he is capable of using the Light Side of the force? And how can you not expect some Jedi master(s) not to notice the presense of Maul/Dyas's Darkness....

I think I confused myself with that last paragraph
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:47 PM   #71
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Vostok, think of my preference of the EU like religion. It is really hard to change someone's religous belief, and just because you don't believe in my religion, that doesn't mean it is false.
Well I guess so, but if you're going to believe the EU is not false then logic dictates that you must consider the movies to be false instead. They contradict each other, so they can't both be right.
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As for the Maul/Dyas... it would be quite a pain to have to re-apply and remove the tattooes each time he changes role. Don't forget he has to change his dentures too!
That's true, but don't forget it is also possible and perhaps more likely that Sifo-Dyas faked his own death so as to fully embrace his new identity as Darth Maul, unlike Dooku who chose to be a little more conspicuous. Perhaps he wasn't playing both sides as it were, but when the time was right he made the transition. In fact now I think about it this is the most likely explanation, as Darth Maul's death would have brought about a sudden "disappearance" of Sifo-Dyas, rather than an actual death.
Quote:
And how can you not expect some Jedi master(s) not to notice the presense of Maul/Dyas's Darkness....
Again I remind you of the inability for Jedi Master(s) to notice the presence of Sidious/Palpatine's Darkness.


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Old 10-12-2004, 09:08 PM   #72
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The difference is that Palpatine isn't actively using the force (like force push, ect), that we can see in the movies anyways.
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Old 10-12-2004, 11:45 PM   #73
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I think Sifo Dyas shall be revealed as someone else perhaps Palpatine because remember the Jedi and sith could control minds to a certain extent they could use the force to present a different face to some people.

I think Sifo Dyas should be kept away from Grevious since we're not sure what species Sifo Dyas was.

Has anyone else though how on earth Maul would be able to carry over his combat skills into a droid body that can have 4 arms from what i've heard he can use all of his arm increadibly well I personally think he was originally from a species with 4 arms that could help explain his proficeinecy.

However I still think that it's quite possible it could be Qui-Gon since Dooku was Qui-Gon's master and Dooku did have a great deal of sadness when he talked about him so it could be he had him cloned and qouldn't it be more Dramatic and unexpected if Obi saw the face mask come off to see qui gon's face it would be of the order when Luke saw obi killed in terms of reaction possibly far greater.

Midi Chlorians are more than likely involved in manipulation of th force if it wasn't then how come droid's arn't manipulating it?

Yes you can have a low Midi Chlorian count but it'll all depend if you can hear the Midi-Chlorians.

I think were gonna find out a lot about the nature of the force during EP III now that i've resigned myself to the sad reality that most of the clone wars will not be on the big screen which personally I would have liked and i could imagine other people would have liked as well.

Also I have a file were i took a screenshot of an image of maul and an image of grevious the greviuos one is near the end of how they created him.

Ask and i shall e-mail it.

The eyes look different Grevious's are more Feline and yellow with the pupil long and thin. and the rest of his eyes are all yellowy green no white bit at all

The Skin around the eyes is brown greenish and very wrinkled and there is a lot of skin in that region.

Their head are also different in size with Grevious's being thinner than maul's how would they be able to fit his brain in how would they be able to adaquetly protect it. Since we can safely saay that Grevious usually Leads from the front and he'd be a pretty popular target amongst clone troopers and since he's neither jedi or sith and doesn't use the force he can't anticipate attacks the same way force users can however he may be able to dodge some but one shot would get him.


Everyone knows how well anyone works with a hole burned through their bran don't we?

Vostok it is very Narrow minded to assume that EU is Directly opposed to the Movies I'd change your stance since tragic things happen involving narrow minded people let's pluck anothwer example out of the cupboard for you let's say Hitler and His Holocaust. If that doesn't strike you as tragic i'd be worried about you.


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Old 10-13-2004, 05:37 AM   #74
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And how the **** does not liking EU lead to fascist dictatorship and genocide???
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Old 10-13-2004, 06:22 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Kryllith:
1) It's true that Sifo-Dyas may be someone we don't know about, but there is also another factor I'm counting on: decent storytelling. Sifo-Dyas must be someone we already know, or the revelation of his true identity will be so anti-climactic it will be a joke.
2) If Palpatine can hide his true identity from the most powerful Jedi in the Universe, I'm sure Maul can hide his from Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, especially when he's got them concentrating more on their lightsaber skills. Remember, "hard to see, the Dark Side is".
1) Is the revelation even assured? Sifo Dyas could just be some random Jedi (albeit a Master) that happened to have died recently. Sidious would be in a position to know so he had whomever set up the order use Sifo Dyas's name. If the jedi is dead, he won't be around to question about the ordering and thus we have a big, possibly unsolveable, mystery which just further helps Sidious's cause. So basically the same goes for Maul. He might be able to shield his identify, but I wouldn't necessarily bet on it, especially since he has to concentrate on his own fighting as well.

2) Maybe, but then Palpatine wasn't running into a direct combative conflict with any of the Jedi (not that we've seen anyway). We've seen various recognitions of presenses in the various movies (Darth and Obiwan sensing each other and Luke and Vader sensing each other, for example). What we don't see is Palpatine hanging around the battle field or engaging in combat. I'm willing to believe if he were to, then the Jedi fighting him would probably recognize him as Palpatine, regardless of disguise (unless he could shield himself enough using the Force). As it is, the Jedi have no real reason to suspect him.

Quote:
Everyone:
Of course, the most important thing you have to do when considering my theory is to forget everything EU has told you[/B]
No worries there. I've yet to read any novelization ,and I take pretty much everything that's not specifically in the movies with a grain of salt. I'm not one to use the EU to support an argument.

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Old 10-13-2004, 06:59 AM   #76
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Grevious Can't be maul I Even got a picture of both and compared them Their Eyes are Completly Different and In most of the Images The Flesh In between the metal in some of his Body is GREEN not RED and BLACK the skin around his eyes is BROWN and his eyes are all YELLOW with a BLACK Stripe down the middle he has no WHITE part of his eyes while maul does.

Perhaps you should comapre the voices of this oldieman guy who people have been saying will be doing the voice and compare it to maul's to see if it sounds similar.

Also someone try to find that picture of GREVIOUS and compare it to MAUL let us Disprove this theory or prove it conclusiveley.


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Last edited by DK_Viceroy; 10-13-2004 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 10-13-2004, 07:17 AM   #77
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Compare Anakin's voice to Vader's voice...compare how Hayden Christensen looks like and Sebastian Shaw...
You argument there has little merit since we know so little about the biotechnology that transformed Anakin and Grievious into half-robots.

Though I'll agree with you that it is less then likely that Maul is Grievious. It would be weird and Maul is supposed to be dead .This isn't Star Wars: Dawn of the dead. Anakin survived but Maul got cut in half and fell down a seemingly bottomless pit(it looked pretty deep so it's really likely that Maul's corpse was squashed when it touched the bottom).

Grievious being Qui-Gon? I expect seeing Qui-Gon's blue ghost talking to Anakin but a clone?

The theory that seems the most logical to me would be that Sifo Dyas is Grievious.


EDIT: Oh and your crazy just as narrow minded(if you could even call it narrow minded) view over EU and Star Wars could also lead to fascism and genocide...though it's stupid to compare Star Wars purism with Hitler...


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Old 10-13-2004, 09:18 AM   #78
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Holy cow you guys are full of cheese or something! EU and Star Wars could also lead to fascism and genocide? Are you nuts? Either Grievous is going to be SD, Maul or just plain Grievous. There is no way he will be a clone or Qui-Gon because that will muck up the story of Anakin way too much.

Did anybody read my post with the picture of the half Maul half droid thing? This concept picture was mandated by George Lucas himself the article says. Why would he want this sketch made? To put it in the movie. The article says that this particular sketch did not make it into the movie, but the general idea of a half light saber wielding half droid bad guy did, and from this sketch we know that somewhere Lucas told them to draw up part of Maul in there. Here it is again for those of you that just post and don't read.

http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004...s20040803.html


And, here is a direct post to the picture, it's cool.

http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2004...0040803_1.html


One more thing. Viceroy, if you say that EU is gospel one more time I'll scream because it's not. One point showing the inaccuracy of your statement is your precious Death Star reveal by the Geo's in AoTC. According to EU some scientist created it and there was a prototype of it in a nebula or something like that. Well, it looks like Lucas changed his and our minds about that thus changing EU. It can't be gospel if it changes.


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Old 10-13-2004, 11:06 AM   #79
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Nairb: Wow, excellent link there. A little more fuel to my Maul=Greivous theory.

Viceroy:
Quote:
I think Sifo Dyas shall be revealed as someone else perhaps Palpatine
Again I say it is highly unlikely that Sifo-Dyas is Palpatine. It doesn't matter how good your mind control is, you can't be two highly visible public figures (member of the Jedi Council and Senator for Naboo) at the same time. Also as we know Mind Tricks only work on the weak minded, so you wouldn't be able to fool people like Yoda and Mace Windu.

As for your revelation of Greivous' eyes: until we have a shot of Greivous in the movie and not just a concept picture, we don't really have any accurate comparisons, so my theory can't be discounted just be looking at the concept art. You'll need an actual still from the movie.

Also, I find it amusing that you refer to me as narrow minded. If EU is gospel, answer these questions:
1) Who designed the Death Star?
2) What planet was Boba Fett born on?
3) How old is C-3PO?
The answers are different depending on whether you go by published EU, or by the prequels. Therefore, they contradict. Therefore, EU is not gospel.

Oh, and last I heard John Rhys Davies (Gimli from LOTR, Sallah from Indiana Jones) was possibly going to voice Greivous. Yes his voice is different to Maul's, but so is James Earl Jones' voice different to Hayden Christensen.

Kryllith:
Quote:
Is the revelation even assured?
Again, no the revelation is not assured, I'm just assuming in the tradition of good storytelling that there will be a revelation. Why would Yoda and Mace Windu act all shifty upon hearing Sifo-Dyas' name if there was to be no revelation in Revenge of the Sith?

Indeed the argument against Maul being unable to conceal his identity like Palpatine can is just an assumption of yours, there is no evidence for it and it doesn't necessarily hold true.


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Old 10-13-2004, 04:27 PM   #80
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Greivous = Maul is a good theory. I just don't see how. They look so different. Unless of course it's just Maul's brain in the that thing, but that woul be weird. Maul = Syfo-Dyas looks good though.


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