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View Poll Results: Do you think it would be cool to have playable Jedi?
YES ! I want to be a Jedi wah wah wah 40 28.78%
NO ! This game is for the grunts only 79 56.83%
I really don't care 20 14.39%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll


Thread: 'Playable Jedi' Debate (merged, no flaming)
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Old 10-11-2004, 04:43 AM   #81
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well u know i wouldnt mind to have Luke in the Hoth map
but the only thing he should do is trying to get the AT-AT


Hoky religions and ancient weapons , are no match for a good blaster at your side kid
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Old 10-11-2004, 05:02 AM   #82
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No Jedi.

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Old 10-11-2004, 05:24 AM   #83
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normally i love to play as a jedi... but for battlefront i think it would ruin the whole point of the game.
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Old 10-11-2004, 05:24 AM   #84
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Luke IS in the Hoth map but he can't take down any he goes around with his lightsaber and kills ground soldiers



PS. to get heroes in istant action go to the options menu and the game options and switch heroes on



another PS. heroes: Empire: Vader rebels: Luke Republic: Mace Windu CIS:Count Dooku
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Old 10-11-2004, 01:40 PM   #85
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Re: Jedi Soldiers, how much more evidence do you need?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
I'm not trying to be a hypocrite about anything (not quite sure what you're referring to there). I wasn't being sarcastic in my response, I really do feel like I understand the mentality against Jedi now (well and the fact that a person can just have a like or dislike, not based on anything rational.. I mean I like chocolate better than vanilla, but that's not rational, it's emotional).
Sorry, but the argument against Jedi is the only irrational thing here. I think I have made it pretty clear. Saying Jedi should be were they don't belong for the sake of having Jedi, because it is Star Wars is not very rational. I gave my opinion that I don't want them and then I clearly stated why they should not be there. Regardless of my opinion or yours they don't belong in the game.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
(1)Anyway, in the movies we see Jedi, Lightsabers drawn, running forward towards the advancing CIS armies composed of Droids and combat vehicles. The Jedi lead squads of armed Clonetroopers. We see Mace Windu himself dashing forward and blocking blaster shots left and right, providing cover for his squad as they get ready to attack.


(2) For someone who can't possibly be a soldier, he sure is acting the part! Yoda, anti-war in his later years (though he trains Luke to become a warrior to fight Vader, go figure) is the one who brings the Clones and their equipment to the battlefield. Sure, you can say he came there to rescue Obi-Wan and Mace Windu's detachment of Jedi from the Arena (Windu of course came there to rescue Obi-Wan and capture or kill Dooku at the same time). BUT, there was a battle already raging outside between Republic and Seperatist forces. The Jedi took an active role in the battle, leading groups of Clonetroopers into the fray. Yoda acted as a field commander and did the cliched field commander line at the end. ; )
Where were the Jedi on the Separatist side? So you still want to be logical to the movies in justifying why Jedi should be in the game? Where did Yoda, Obi, Anikan, and Dooku end up? In a Dual by themselves. Not that it really matters just something I wanted to point out for the hell of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
As to the Empire, Palpatine isn't a Jedi, but Vader is (or was, he's a Sith Knight now), and he's in charge of Death Squadron. His ship is the Executor, the COMMAND SHIP. He orders Admirals around, and has them executed on occasion when he isn't feeling too forgiving. Count Dooku is the leader of the Seperatist Forces in AOTC. Luke is a pilot and Commander in Empire Strikes back. While he doesn't show himself to be a soldier (he fights, he pilots, but he's not shown as part of the army, I grant you that), he does carry on the military tradition of Jedi in uniform.
Ok.. and Luke wasn't a Jedi at that time.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
(1) Watch the Clone Wars animated series for even more explicit examples of Jedi soldiering. Yoda even rides some animal into battle in the opening of the very first episode! Obi-Wan wears an ARC Trooper uniform, and Mace Windu kicks butt!

(2) Then we have GENERAL Kenobi, who fought in the Clone Wars, mentioned right in ANH. He tells Luke how Anakin was also a great pilot who fought in the wars (we'll have to watch Episode III to see exactly how this plays out of course).

(3)If there were Jedi "Conscientious Objectors" in the Clone Wars, we have yet to see evidence of them.

(4) PS: Is your problem with the Jedi that they are "famous" Jedi? I don't think so, you've already stated that it's the idea of Jedi on the battlefield at all that bugs you. The canon arguments are red herrings, aren't they?
They did fight in the Clone wars I already stated they did and it's pretty well known. That was a pore argument against them not being in game that I didn't make. Like I said unless you want to give Jedi only to the Republic in the Clone Wars you aren't being logical to the movies.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
In real life you don't normally see the Field Commander running forward and doing the fighting, and in Count Dooku's case he doesn't do that. Neither does Vader. Mace Windu does (but Yoda doesn't). Of course, Jedi are a lot different than some 50 year old human General in our world, who carries a pistol but isn't going to be doing the same stuff as the average 19 year old grunt. Jedi are one-man armies. Dooku could hold his own if he needed to (and he did, we just didn't see him slicing up any Clonetroopers).
"Jedi are one-man armies." That what we have been saying. So you are going to take a Character that is a "ONE MAN ARMY" and turn him into a regular grunt no more powerful then any other class in the game?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
Vader didn't fight alongside infantry on the ground, no. He sought out Obi-Wan and killed him in single combat (that whole Samurai/Knight mythos). But he did board his TIE Fighter and take two Imperial Pilots with him to go shoot down the Rebel Forces attacking the Death Star. So Vader wasn't above putting himself into the thick of the battle.
You just said this though.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
In real life you don't normally see the Field Commander running forward and doing the fighting, and in Count Dooku's case he doesn't do that. Neither does Vader.
So he isn't above putting himself into the thick of it or he is? I would say when he boarded his Tie it was, because they said "the attack plan on the Death Star could be a success." Being an outstanding pilot he choose to not take any chances and do it himself at the last minute.
Nice reference to privet duals and how Vader doesn't belong in a game as a playable character in ground battles.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
I meant to say "I can't argue" not can. My world will not fall apart if Jedi are not made playable, I just don't see a compelling argument why they should NOT be added, other than "well, I just don't like them."
Did you read my post? I thought it was pretty much clear why they aren't and shouldn't be in game. I went over EP1 through EP6. Jedi don't belong in the game it's pretty clear to most everyone, but you.

Let me go over some of the Points you have made.....
(1) You want Jedi to be available to only one side as a special reward class.
(2) You want this special reward class to be balanced to the rest of the classes in the game.
(3) Even though there are no Jedi fighting in any of the ground battles of the original Trilogy you want to add them to the battles they were not in.
(4) All your real examples of Jedi fighting with ground forces are in the Clone Wars. And as you said they are "ONE-MAN ARMIES." If we stay logical to the movies? Only the Republic can have Jedi fighting on their side and only have Jedi fighting in the Clone Wars part of the game. If you want to be logical to the movies that is.

We are irrational about not wanting Jedi? It looks like your arguments are coming to the place where you are proving yourself wrong and my points right.


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Last edited by Cosmos Jack; 10-11-2004 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 10-11-2004, 02:00 PM   #86
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Question Feels like we're arguing in circles...

No. I don't mean that NOT wanting Jedi is irrational. Rather non-rational (based on opinion, emotion, not facts that lead to an inevitable conclusion).

Rather the REASONS given for saying Jedi shouldn't be in the game are fallacious (full of error, leading to incorrect conclusions).

For example saying that Jedi aren't soldiers, so therefore they shouldn't be in the game.

The least credible argument given so far is:

"I don't think Jedi should be in the game. I don't want Jedi in the game. Therefore Jedi don't belong in the game."

That's still only an opinion, based on what? Personal taste, and I CAN'T ARGUE AGAINST IT.

I never said that Jedi should be in the game just because this is Star Wars and therefore every Star Wars game should have playable Jedi.

Rather I said there is no reason why they should NOT be, other than "I don't want them."

There is a difference.

The rational reasons for not wanting Jedi in the game are based on the difficulty of balancing them, and the work involved. The non-rationale reasons are:

-the fear that everyone will want to be Jedi and it will change the whole dynamic of the game.

-the belief that Jedi ought not to fight in battles (a belief about the nature of Jedi philosophy, like the honor codes in JK2).

But these are red herrings if the real reason you don't want Jedi is that you just don't want Jedi.

A subjective opinion based on personal taste can't be proven wrong, can it?

Now as to "movie logic," well, it's a two-edged sword. The fact is that all games make vast allowances for gameplay balance and "fun" by sacraficing "realism" (be that real life realism or genre realism, in this case Star Wars "realim").

But, arguing that Jedi never fight alongside troops in the movies therefore they shouldn't do so in a game like this doesn't hold up. If you want to be hyperliteral, then you'll have to change a lot of the battles to how they were in SP, because MP breaks with "movie realism."

I only bring up the movies at all because it's being argued that "Well that isn't how it was in Star Wars."

As to the whole Vader/Dooku thing, the game already has them on the battle field. You just object to the idea that a player could control them instead of the AI.

Why is that?

Or, is it as some have stated, that the AI Jedi offend you as well, but since you can't remove them from the game, you can just live with it by turning them off...?

I don't see what's so bad about adding options to the game. Or is it because of the slippery slope argument that if we allow playable Jedi EVERYONE will use them and it will ruin the game?


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Last edited by Kurgan; 10-11-2004 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 10-11-2004, 02:03 PM   #87
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yeah , ashame Luke cant do it as in the movies
slicing open the belly of the AT AT and throw in a thermal


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Old 10-11-2004, 02:17 PM   #88
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You want facts? I have some.

You are looking at this with a JA perspective when you should look at it from a BF series perspective.

Limiting to one Jedi per team? Practically impossible. Balance is there, true, but you have to throw in the human factor.
Being a BF oldie, I've been killed often enough because some noob wanted to take a plane or a tank. Now, neither of those vehicles are uber or anything, they're even very easy to deal with BUT people still shoot you for such a stupid reason.
It's safe to say that we'll see people tking their team's Jedi so they can be one themselves, even if the Jedi are correctly balanced.

Saving a Jedi and become one? People will kill each other to see who's the first to save the Jedi.

Special Bonus? Then the Jedi better be pretty strong if it takes a lot of effort to get him in order to make it a nice goal to achieve. But anyway, the goal everyone should have is help the team win.


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Old 10-11-2004, 02:19 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
No. I don't mean that NOT wanting Jedi is irrational. Rather non-rational (based on opinion, emotion, not facts that lead to an inevitable conclusion).
Sorry Kurgan, but my last 2 post have been nothing, but facts please argue them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
Rather the REASONS given for saying Jedi shouldn't be in the game are fallacious (full of error, leading to incorrect conclusions).
Really your still not wanting to read my last posts huh?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
The least credible argument given so far is:

"I don't think Jedi should be in the game. I don't want Jedi in the game. Therefore Jedi don't belong in the game."
Frankly dude your full of it. Do I have to quote everything that I have said again in my own post or do you want to just do us both a favor and go read them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
That's still only an opinion, based on what? Personal taste, and I CAN'T ARGUE AGAINST IT.
Nothing not one thing I said in my last 2 posts are opinion and you can't argue with it, because there is nothing to argue.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
I never said that Jedi should be in the game just because this is Star Wars and therefore every Star Wars game should have playable Jedi.

Rather I said there is no reason why they should NOT be, other than "I don't want them."
I gave many many examples I why I don't want them and they aren't opinions sorry.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
The rational reasons for not wanting Jedi in the game are based on the difficulty of balancing them, and the work involved. The non-rationale reasons are:

-the fear that everyone will want to be Jedi and it will change the whole dynamic of the game.

-the belief that Jedi ought not to fight in battles (a belief about the nature of Jedi philosophy, like the honor codes in JK2).

But these are red herrings if the real reason you don't want Jedi is that you just don't want Jedi.
Sorry you don't like the facts Kurgan you seem to have not read them and is this how you are when you are wrong? The only way you can continue to argue your point is by totally ignoring the truth then I can't argue with you.


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Old 10-11-2004, 02:19 PM   #90
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Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
[B]We have.. We don't want Jedi... Work or no I don't think it really changes what the argument is about. We just don't want Jedi, we don't feel that the game is about being a Jedi, and playing one or whatever.
This is what I'm talking about. What this says to me is that there is really nothing to debate, because it's just an opinion.

It's like arguing which Star Wars movie is the best!


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Old 10-11-2004, 02:36 PM   #91
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Question Role Playing?

Okay, a few things... since I'm arguing with y'all now. ; )


*Is it being assumed that the games have to be perfectly in line with the movies?

- Ie are we role playing now?

Because if we are, THEN, yes, you are right, the Empire should not have Vader on their side, period. Unless he's flying a ship or fighting a saber duel.

And the Seperatists can have Dooku flying around on his speeder and saber dueling, but that's it.

But the Rebellion can have Luke act as a pilot and soldier if they want to.

And the Republic will have Mace Windu and several other Jedi fighting on the front lines.

HOWEVER, *I* do not insist that these games have to be totally like the movies, rather you guys are. SO, I have tried to use movie examples to show why your movie "rules" are not absolute.

Why can Mace Windu fight for the Republic, but Dooku can't fight for the Seperatists? Your argument is "well because we didn't see that in the movies."

Well okay, at least you're being consistent, but I still say, that we CAN take artistic liscense in order to achieve balance.

There would be nothing stopping Dooku from fighting on the battlefield as Mace Windu did, he just chose not to. In a game, it would be unfair (I'm sure you'd agree) to give one side a Jedi, but not the other. For now, that's exactly what the game developers did. They give each side a Jedi, rather than just one.

That is how I would do it as well. Either both sides get them or neither does.

If you argue that Jedi aren't soldiers and don't belong on the battlefield, then you're arguing for neither side to have them.

Right now the game has an option, either both sides get Jedi or neither does. I agree with that and I wouldn't change that. All I am suggesting is the option to allow those Jedi to be controllable.

I never said that I think Jedi should be stronger than all other classes.

I said there are a number of ways they COULD be balance and there are a number of ways you could do it to prevent people fighting over who gets to be the Jedi (if Jedi are limited).

But, try as I might, the argument is being made that no matter what way you do them, whether they work or not you don't want them in the game.

Not wanting them in the game is an opinion. Someone else may want them in the game. Someone else may not care whether they are in the game or not. Which person is correct? Your opinion is what is right for you, not everyone else.

Don't know how much more plain I can make it...


Anyway, to sum up, I don't think this is a role playing game where it has to be "just like the movies." No Star Wars game to date is just like the movies. Being closer or father from the movies can be good or bad, it depends on what you like and how its handled. However it seems that the arguments being made are akin to saying:

Well I want it just like the movies, but not where Jedi are concerned.

So people are latching on to situations where Jedi did not charge into the battlefield swinging their sabers (like the AI Jedi do now) and saying that is how it should always be. The fact that Jedi have done these things disproves the idea that they "don't belong."

So it really comes down to how much role playing of the movies you are wanting to do in this game. If that is your goal, maybe you should be in favor of making Jedi only available to one side... but that's your suggestion, not mine.


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Old 10-11-2004, 02:37 PM   #92
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The only way I could see jedi becoming a playable unit is to have a jedi apprentice unit that acts as more of a support guy than anything else. Have him get a few limited close range force powers,a limited jump in place of a jet pack, and some med packs or a force healing power to help out the troops. That way he's not an uber hero unit (because he's only an apprentice) and jedi don't take center stage.
Otherwise just don't even bother. Unless Pandemic is planning to make an NJO expansion to battlefront. Because then the jedi would be matched against the Yuzhan Vong. But that's a whole other animal, so let's not get into that.


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Old 10-11-2004, 05:37 PM   #93
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Kurgan- The majority of us seem to agree, we don't want Jedi. No, you can't argue with that because you've apparently already lost that. But you are not addressing any, ANY, of the perfectly logical reasons we've been presenting against Jedi.

Instead of talking about how you can't argue with our opinions, how about you try and actual agrue our facts. The only person who seems to be so conentrated on the personal opinion aspect of it is you. Forget about it. No one else cares, I just want to see whta you have to say about the facts the non-Jedi side represents.

Quote:
I don't care if Yoda said "wars make not one great, mmmmm ehehe" he fought in a war!
He may have participated in the Clone Wars, but he wasn't on the battlefield, next to the clone troopers dicing up Droids. The ONLY example from the movies of Jedi fighting alongside a large group of troops against an enemy in some random battle is the Battle of geonosis, the beginning of the Clone War, where two Jedis and a senator's lives were at stake. That's when Jedi fought in battles with the common soldier. No other time.

Quote:
Now as to "movie logic," well, it's a two-edged sword.
Exactly. YOU brought up movie logic, and the coin was flipped to show you that the movies argue in the non-Jedi favor.

As we've seen through all of Star Wars, Jedi are unique. They are reserved for special, secluded battles. They are either fighting other Jedi in a duel setting, or fighting through the bad guys to complete some objective. They don't fight in the big battles against armies. That's simply not what Jedi do.

This game is about those large scale battles. Those army vs. army battles on far away planets. You know, the kind of battles where the only Jedi present are off somewhere else duesling another Jedi or accomplishing some important but distant and specified objective. Not on the battlefield.


*** If you read nothing else in this post, read this***

-You can't deny that this game is based upon large scale army battles.
-You can't deny that everything Star Wars tells us is that Jedi don't participate in that kind of combat.
-Therefore, you can't logically say that Jedi belong in this game.

Please, tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me where that isn't logical. The first two points are facts, and the third is the logical conclusion. You can't dispute that.


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Old 10-11-2004, 06:05 PM   #94
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Jedi have already ruined SWG.
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Old 10-11-2004, 06:31 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by TK-8252
Sorry, but Jedi Academy Siege is horribly unbalanced. Especially the Jedi, who just reflect/push everything, and then charge with their lightsaber or throw-spam. Even MovieBattles II Jedi are unbalanced, and when everyone picks the Jedi class and I ask why 3/4 of the server is Jedi, they say "because Jedi are overpowered."
I'm sorry, but everything you said just there was completly wrong. JKA seige mode is fine and jedi are not as hard as you say, same with Movie Battles 2. The only reason I can think of you saying that is cause you suck at both. As of the current build, Jedi are too WEAK, not strong. It is being fixed, but even in their stronger state, a good gunner could take them down. Jedi Knights games have done a great job, but lack jedi systems as good as Movie Battles 2. However, gunner vs. Jedi is still balanced in JKA seige. Heavy Weapons can completly rape jedi, and most of the other classes can do well enough. I highly suggest Movie Battles2 build 16 to anyone that wants a good, playable jedi, and I do think jedi in Battlefront is a lesss preferable option. I think the Jedi Heroes in the game right now are pretty awesome though.
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Old 10-11-2004, 06:34 PM   #96
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Thanks for your opinions.
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Old 10-11-2004, 06:34 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by sircursealot
TK-8252, that would be a great Jedi class. Sure, it's not n00b friendly, but experienced players can exploit it to its full potential. The Jedi lacks range, but is far more agile than infantry units, and has an instant kill weapon. You won't be able to become a skilled Jedi overnight, but practice dodging, learn how to use a saber, and use geurilla tactics and the Jedi could become the most lethal player on the server. Of course, it would have it's weaknesses (droidekas, oribital strikes, or even thermals), so I can see it being a balanced unit.
Just my opinion...
Vehicles as well, At-Ats, AAts, star ships, combat speeders, and the heavy clone-era vehicles as well all have sufficient power to take down any poor soul not in a vehicle.
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Old 10-11-2004, 07:25 PM   #98
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Quote:
I think the Jedi Heroes in the game right now are pretty awesome though.
Surely you haven't played much with the heroes. They are awful. AI is horrible, they ridiculously block MISSILE shots and are seemingly invulnerable. You can rocket them up and down constantly and they still get up. It's silly. On top of all that, they don't even add to the gameplay, they are just meatshields.


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Old 10-12-2004, 06:27 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cosmos Jack
We have.. We don't want Jedi... Work or no I don't think it really changes what the argument is about. We just don't want Jedi, we don't feel that the game is about being a Jedi, and playing one or whatever.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
This is what I'm talking about. What this says to me is that there is really nothing to debate, because it's just an opinion.

It's like arguing which Star Wars movie is the best!
Yeah that is my opinion all right. Care to debate my facts? The only thing you can argue is my opinion you can't argue my facts or I'm sure you would have already. Looking at your posts you have started contradicted yourself far too much.


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Old 10-12-2004, 07:07 AM   #100
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Keep the votes going.


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Old 10-12-2004, 04:10 PM   #101
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current state

YES i want to be a Jedi wah wah wah 2 6.67%
NO ! this game is for the grunts only 28 93.33%




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Old 10-12-2004, 05:52 PM   #102
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Moral of the story:

Dont download or join servers with Jedi players mods if you dont like that option. My mod has them playable in 1 release and non playable in another on the Hoth map. And as long as its just to test it out and ALL servers dont go jedi happy -well be ok. I run my mod (non jedi) and a jedi server, there has been 0 abuse since the mod limits jedi amounts.


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Old 10-13-2004, 08:20 AM   #103
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That isn't the moral of the story. Hell that isn't even what the story is about.

I wonder who edited the poll.......

Not that it seems to make much of a different. Kind or like adding Nader to a Presidential POLL.


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Old 10-13-2004, 10:18 AM   #104
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As with every other topic asking if jedi should be in the game, the answer always comes out the same. THe majority votes no, as do I!
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:57 AM   #105
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I don't care if Yoda said "wars make not one great, mmmmm ehehe" he fought in a war!
Yeah, and your point is?
He can be in a war and not think it makes you great. Why do you think Nam Vets say "When I die I'll go to Heaven 'cause I've served my time in Hell"?

In Ep 4-6, there were four Jedi. Only four. And you say Jedi should be all over the place...

I hate people who freaking want Jedi EVERYWHERE. There's already too much stuff in SWBF that doesn't belong there, and you want to ruin it even more?!

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Old 10-14-2004, 11:06 AM   #106
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When I want to be a superhero, I've already got Jedi Academy. This is a game about (mostly) equal, disposable units working as a team.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:08 PM   #107
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Thumbs down And my answer is...

Definately, NO.

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Old 10-16-2004, 03:59 AM   #108
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Originally posted by Willybone
When I want to be a superhero, I've already got Jedi Academy. This is a game about (mostly) equal, disposable units working as a team.
excactly my point


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Old 10-16-2004, 06:00 AM   #109
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Point is, most servers in fighting games run no mod at all. Servers like jolt etc would never host a jedi mod.

Secondly, i do not think the modders can make them powerful. I don't believe yet they can give them ace force powers etc. All they can do so far is change the model and health. They would have to include powers etc.


Even if Playable Jedi become super strong, the percentage of servers would be so small, and easy filterable.


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Old 10-16-2004, 06:10 AM   #110
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Alegis is correct. However I don't doubt that at some stage, a modder will release a full jedi mod, regardless of all these debates about whether most people want one or not, and we'll all have to live with it. It'll happen, because it only takes 1 person who knows how to mod and wants jedi to make it happen.


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Old 10-16-2004, 07:56 AM   #111
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Jedi in game ..

the Reason I think ppl want Jedi as players in BF is because they want the ability to hit the blaster shots back,

and basically be a jedi in the wars,

I know about the JK games, and Also have them too, but when online EVERYONE is a jedi so you dont always get the ability to fight off hords of stormtroopers or what ever,

is there was the final stand in the arena on Genosiosisiosioisss from the end Episode 2, and the jedi were out numbered I think then it would make the game balanced for jedi to play using force and sabers, with no other guns, remember, if you have a saber you have to fight up close and personal, but is a trooper shoots a jedi in the back they are hurt like everyone, (I know thats not the case with the jedi heros in the Game)


Other think is I did once kill a jedi in BF, I was in the imperial grav tank, and ran over my own jedi hero and it came up as a kill.,.. boy did it suck..

Later ppl
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:18 AM   #112
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It's pretty simple, there is plenty of evidence. Jedi, as a playable class, cannot mix with gunner classes in multiplayer games in the SW galaxy. Jedi were general-like figures, leaders, not troops. Jedi were emissaries, not messengers. Now, set aside canon and look at hard evidence. Take a game like Star Wars Galaxies by SOE. Great idea, at first. Play as a regular class in the Star Wars online galaxy. Then, they infused "force sensitivity". Quickly, an overwhelming statistical majority abandoned playing the various player classes and just began "grinding" classes in pursuit of unlocking a "force-sensitive" (jedi) character. People no longer played riflemen or pistoleer characters for fun because there was a new, more elite class that could kick their butts, so in order to "keep up", they had to grind out until they reached Jedi as well. Anytime you introduce an elite, higher-powered-overall class with few vulnerabilities, nobody will want to play anything else. In fact, I challenge that those "wanting" jedi here are primarily made up of people who probably suck at gunning and are getting their butts kicked, so they wish there was a way to even the score, i.e. Jedi invincibility/powers.

Jedi killed SWG. Subscribership tanked as each successive patch made Jedi more and more common until they now outnumber regular players in the whole universe (lol). You either have a jedi or you quit playing cause you got your butt smoked. Great idea...pfft.

There are already great jedi-focused titles out there to play: Jedi Academy, KOTOR, etc. There have not, up to this point, been any Star Wars shooter titles, except what SWG once was. Why the need/urge to morph this game into all the others? I, for one, find the difference WONDERFUL and am grateful that you can try several equally powered classes without some snot-nosed jedi punks ruining my desired experience: to be a soldier on a Star Wars battlefield. Wow, novel concept, eh?
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:50 AM   #113
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Just to repeat what I said earlier, the only way you could have jedi in BF is to set the game up like america's army. What I mean by that is have a system that monitors the players overall scores, after each round of combat the people with the highest scores would gain access to specialist troops slots, which could include ONE jedi slot, and which would also have troops like snipers, heavy weapons specialists, and the each faction's special trooper. That way only the really skilled players would get access.
Also it would be better to make said jedi unit a padawan or an average knight. That means they won't quite pack the one man army punch of jedi heroes like windu, kenobi, and vader. What you would end up with is a mobile close range combat unit, possibly with some abilities to heal friendlies and knock back or hurt enemies. It would also make sense from a content standpoint to have a jedi padawan class since often the less experienced jedi take on roles such as medics, couriers, and other support roles. In the end the point is that the jedi were involved in these wars, and they suffered causualties just like anyone else on the battlefield.


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Old 10-17-2004, 09:34 AM   #114
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"Just a little" unbalanced is still unbalanced. If jedi could be added in an EQUAL power footing to other units, bring'em in (here's your sabre, no powers, no block, just go at it and good luck).

Anything higher is unbalanced and does not belong in a gunner title. Want power greater than other classes (no matter the steps to get there), go to a Jedi title. Unless you're willing to alos make GUNNERS more powerful based on the same criteria, which again negates the jedi elite-ness. Let him have some fancy sword moves, but still no powers. Sure, I'd agree with that.

Only people who suck at combat should be lobbying for changing a gunner/combat game into another jedi-fest title. You don't see folks petitioning to strip jedi's of powers and make them gunners in JA? Conversely, leave this one alone as is, no unbalanced classes, period. They only encourage unbalanced/unfun times for all. Learn well the lessons of SWG...

Oh, and as for canon, jedi did NOT exist in the Galactic Civil War era, only Vader and Luke, Yoda and the Emperor. So, by your own rationalization, these changes would ONLY be present in the CIS/Republic battles anyway, although they disappear from there in Revenge of the Sith as well due to, um, oh yeah, EXTERMINATION by General Grievous and Anakin/Vader...lol
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Old 10-17-2004, 10:56 AM   #115
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now thats wrong i am a not bad shooter but in games like jk ja there isnt any fredom and no battles like in battlefront sins when in ja you can fly an x-wing if there was a game that gives me fredome like in battlefront and there will be an class of jadi i was out of here and not making every body mad here

basicly i wont a man who can hold a lightsaber and that will block 2 out fo 10 bullets that you fire not too block rockets and emp no powers no super jadi and i dont need that in mp just in sp is that too much too ask????!!!!


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Old 10-17-2004, 12:08 PM   #116
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There is a mod out that let's you play as Jedi on all maps (created by some German(s)). It's not in any way balanced of course, because Jedi are still invincible (well, infinite health, they can be run over or tossed into bottomless pits) and there's no limit on how many can use them.

As others have pointed out, they can't capture control points, a bunch of bots also use them, and once your tickets drop below a certain level they start auto-dying (however you can stay alive if you are inside a vehicle when the tickets drop).


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Old 10-18-2004, 03:57 AM   #117
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kurgan!..in the mod the jedi's dont die!


Star Wars Battlefront!!!
how u can make mods?Add weapons>?<
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Old 10-18-2004, 06:12 AM   #118
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being a jedi would ruin the effect. to be honest i am fed up being one in every star wars game out there it is good to be a grunt.


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Old 10-18-2004, 11:48 AM   #119
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Post the mod

well the mod realy suck (even for me a jedi fanboy) you cant play agains a army of invincible jedi that kill the normal troopes and now i think that having a jedi. super jedi in battlefront a bad thing


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Old 10-18-2004, 05:18 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally posted by JediConsularAD
being a jedi would ruin the effect. to be honest i am fed up being one in every star wars game out there it is good to be a grunt.
Well only a few games actually let you play as Jedi (with sabers/force), when you come down to it (unless you count Luke in his ANH days as a "Jedi"). ; )

As far as being mentioned in a game, well, that's a big difference. They're part of the scenery of Star Wars.


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Last edited by Kurgan; 10-18-2004 at 05:42 PM.
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