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Old 03-18-2005, 08:34 PM   #81
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Hello,

Quote:
Is there any way to tell the program to convert all files in a given directory?
Sure! You can run MDLOps from a command line where you can use file globbing (i.e. c:\models\*.mdl)

Check the readme.
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:56 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
Is there any way to tell the program to convert all files in a given directory? I find it to be quite tedios to manually convert files 1 by 1...
If you're using Kotor Tool to extract your models before conversion, you can also just double-click on the first model you want to extract, specify how many total you want to process (including the clicked one), and Kotor Tool will extract each .mdl and .mdx pair, convert them (using Kotor Tool's own MDLOps) and put all the files in a directory for you. I wil also extract all of the required textures as well.


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Old 03-19-2005, 07:58 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by cchargin
Hello,



Sure! You can run MDLOps from a command line where you can use file globbing (i.e. c:\models\*.mdl)

Check the readme.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't see that. I guess I should read more carefully.

Thanks for the answer.
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Old 03-19-2005, 08:02 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Tetra
If you're using Kotor Tool to extract your models before conversion, you can also just double-click on the first model you want to extract, specify how many total you want to process (including the clicked one), and Kotor Tool will extract each .mdl and .mdx pair, convert them (using Kotor Tool's own MDLOps) and put all the files in a directory for you. I wil also extract all of the required textures as well.
Yeah I already did that, an excellent feature you implemented.
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Old 03-19-2005, 10:21 AM   #85
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Oh, and another question: is it possible to leave out the '-ascii-kx-bin' from the filenames? I'd love if it would - instead of adding 'kx-bin' after the '-ascii' part - that, instead, the '-ascii' part was removed...

Can this be done?
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Old 03-19-2005, 10:38 AM   #86
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You can do it manually at least...

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Old 03-19-2005, 10:54 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
You can do it manually at least...
I know. But my latest conversion included 48 files (24 *.mdx and 24 *.mdl), so I would much appreciate if there was another way...
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Old 03-19-2005, 11:19 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
I know. But my latest conversion included 48 files (24 *.mdx and 24 *.mdl), so I would much appreciate if there was another way...
So which direction are you trying to go with your conversions? Game->Max or the other way around?

I say this because I am considering adding a drag-and-drop conversion feature to Kotor Tool that would do bunches of external files in one shot.

Please describe in more detail what it is you're trying to do and I'll see if this matches up with what I had in mind.


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Old 03-19-2005, 12:32 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fred Tetra
So which direction are you trying to go with your conversions? Game->Max or the other way around?

I say this because I am considering adding a drag-and-drop conversion feature to Kotor Tool that would do bunches of external files in one shot.

Please describe in more detail what it is you're trying to do and I'll see if this matches up with what I had in mind.
I was trying to convert some K1 models for K2. First, I use your program to mass-convert to the ascii format.

Then, I use MDLops to convert them to the K2 format. And then, the renaming begins (since I prefer them to have the original names).

If possible, an "extract and convert from Kx to Kx" option would be nice. But I do now know whether it's feasible...
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Old 03-19-2005, 06:14 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
I was trying to convert some K1 models for K2.
Unfortuntely, porting assets from one Lucasarts game to another is again Lucasarts policy and Holowan Laboratory rules. Please do not discuss such topics on these boards. Thanks.

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Old 03-19-2005, 06:24 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
Unfortuntely, porting assets from one Lucasarts game to another is again Lucasarts policy and Holowan Laboratory rules. Please do not discuss such topics on these boards. Thanks.
I am aware of that. Jeez, calm down. I have noticed that some people here jump to conclusions a bit too much.

Could it be that I have some custom made models from K1 which I have permission to convert?

I haven't discussed porting anything in this thread. Yes, the method I'm asking about *can* be used that way - but it doesn't have to be.
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Old 03-19-2005, 06:42 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
I am aware of that. Jeez, calm down. I have noticed that some people here jump to conclusions a bit too much.

Could it be that I have some custom made models from K1 which I have permission to convert?

I haven't discussed porting anything in this thread. Yes, the method I'm asking about *can* be used that way - but it doesn't have to be.
When you begin to ask ambiguos questions that can get the members of these modding forums in trouble it is in the Authority of the Moderators such as Prime to reiterate the rules so as to protect the interests of the forums.

If it seems that many of us are quick to point out the rules concerning porting of resources it is because not a one of us wishes to get into legal trouble with the developers of these games.

That being said if when you phrase your questions from the beginning being as clear as possible that you intend to convert custom made models from one game to the other without using original game resources not a single person here could scold you for that.

I will at this time cease off-topic discussion and return control to cchargin.


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Old 03-20-2005, 12:09 AM   #93
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hi,

Quote:
I will at this time cease off-topic discussion and return control to cchargin.
Uh, did I miss something?

Quote:
Oh, and another question: is it possible to leave out the '-ascii-kx-bin' from the filenames? I'd love if it would - instead of adding 'kx-bin' after the '-ascii' part - that, instead, the '-ascii' part was removed...
A common question I get asked is "where did my file go?" It is usually in reference to nwmax which you are never quite sure where your file will end up, or what it will be named. So I decided to make MDLOps as unambigous as possible with naming.

If you want to mess around with Perl the scripts for MDLOps are in the same folder as the executable.

I will look into custom output names as a possible feature.
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Old 03-20-2005, 01:14 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
I am aware of that. Jeez, calm down.
You should take your own advice.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
I have noticed that some people here jump to conclusions a bit too much.
We can only make conclusions from what you write. Surely you can see why moderators would get the impression that you were taking about converting KOTOR models to TSL when you wrote, "convert some K1 models for K2."

Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
Could it be that I have some custom made models from K1 which I have permission to convert?
Sure. But it doesn't come across that way, especially when you don't say that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
I haven't discussed porting anything in this thread. Yes, the method I'm asking about *can* be used that way - but it doesn't have to be.
Yes you did. You discussed converting K1 models for K2.

Look, it is a serious subject since technically we shouldn't really be modding KOTOR at all. Porting lucasarts material to other games is a serious violation that could potentially lead to Holowan Laboratories getting shut down. Thus, us moderators try to be vigilant about such discussion. So in the future, please be a bit more specific, so we can avoid any problems. We are not trying to be discussion nazis, we are just trying to avoid potential trouble.

Now, back on topic please.

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Old 03-20-2005, 05:13 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
You should take your own advice.
I'm sorry, I meant no offense. It's just that I personally feel there's a witch-hunt going on regarding this subject.

Quote:
We can only make conclusions from what you write. Surely you can see why moderators would get the impression that you were taking about converting KOTOR models to TSL when you wrote, "convert some K1 models for K2."
I suppose that's true.

Quote:
Sure. But it doesn't come across that way, especially when you don't say that.
It's just that I'm not used to such a modding environment. The games I usually mod have modding support from the developers, and no talk about sueing modders or shutting down anything ever comes up.

Quote:
Yes you did. You discussed converting K1 models for K2.
Again, you are right. But like I said: I'm not used to LucasArts unfriendly behaviour, so I didn't quite expect such reactions.

Quote:
Look, it is a serious subject since technically we shouldn't really be modding KOTOR at all. Porting lucasarts material to other games is a serious violation that could potentially lead to Holowan Laboratories getting shut down. Thus, us moderators try to be vigilant about such discussion. So in the future, please be a bit more specific, so we can avoid any problems. We are not trying to be discussion nazis, we are just trying to avoid potential trouble.
You know LucasArts better than I - but if they would indeed be willing to try and shut down the entire forum because one member - against the forum rules - would do a port, then I have no respect for them at all. But I do not want to bring this forum into trouble, so I will try to think twice when phrasing another question that might be understood in more than one way.

Quote:
Now, back on topic please.
Sir, yes sir!
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Old 03-20-2005, 03:09 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hive
You know LucasArts better than I - but if they would indeed be willing to try and shut down the entire forum because one member - against the forum rules - would do a port, then I have no respect for them at all.
It wouldn't be because of one member, but we are just trying to enforce the rules equally with everyone. We feel it is better to avoid the topic all together.

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Old 01-22-2006, 03:16 PM   #97
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WOW!!! Very Very Good job!!! it's lots of fun...
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Old 01-22-2006, 03:35 PM   #98
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I'm afraid this topic is kind of...old. Old news, you know? Check out the dates.

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Old 05-22-2007, 07:38 PM   #99
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I've been making some changes to mdlops (mostly porting code over from Torlack's NWN model de/compiler) so we could add some custom animations for our project. I'm uneasy about posting changes to someone else's code without permission but cchargin hasn't responded to my email yet, and I'm about to get too busy to work on this for a while. (The program is GPL so technically it's okay to post changes but if you think this is inappropriate please let me know and I'll remove it).

We've successfully imported animations on s_male02 and hk47. I haven't had time to do much testing outside of what we needed.

If you want to try this, you'll need perl installed, plus a couple of optional packages (instructions in the zip, "installing perl.txt".)

You can download the modified mdlops perl scripts HERE.

The usual caveats/issues:

- imported models may crash your game
- if you move skin mesh nodes the model in-game gets all weird and elongated and messed up, like something from Silent Hill
- we've only tried this with character models, and only a couple of those at that
- There's a bug somewhere in conversion to ascii that sometimes makes the last frame of an animation messed up. An example is in p_mira_bb at the end of CUT027. I think it's continuing a motion that should have been stopped... and if it's the last animation and you want to add a new one after, the motion keeps going into the beginning of the new one! I'm hopeful someone who knows more about animations will be able to tell why this is happening...
[edit:] - If you converted from binary to ascii with a previous version of mdlops, I'd re-convert. If you have an animation you want to save you can copy and paste it into the newly converted ascii model.

When testing, it's nice to name your animation pause1. That way you can see it as soon as you load the game.
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:47 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JdNoa
I've been making some changes to mdlops so we could add some custom animations for our project... We've successfully imported animations on s_male02 and hk47...

What a nice surprise! Thank you JDNoa!

Since cchargin did cite the GPL license agreement, there's no reason to take this down and I think if we did, there'd be a good chance of starting a riot.

Quote:
When testing, it's nice to name your animation pause1. That way you can see it as soon as you load the game.
Good to note that.

Quote:
If you want to try this, you'll need perl installed, plus a couple of optional packages (instructions in the zip, "installing perl.txt".)
If you like I could help package this into an EXE...? See first post of this thread for a link


Edit: what is the mdlops.tws?

Last edited by tk102; 06-23-2007 at 01:09 AM.
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Old 05-22-2007, 08:01 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk102
If you like I could help package this into an EXE...?

Edit: what is the mdlops.tws?
That'd be awesome, thanks. All the perl-to-exe programs I found were commercial.

Uh... oh, oops. mdlops.tws would be a textpad configuration file. That doesn't need to be in there.
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:23 PM   #102
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OH!!! Thank you very very very... very much for this release JdNoa and tk102!!

I've managed to change the pause1 animation from the s_male2 file, it compiles without errors and worked into the game!

But now since I'm completely new at modding I have a few questions:

When I make a new animations in the s_male2 file, what else do I need to change to allow me import those animation into the game? Just adding a new line in the animation.2da file and call it using a script works?

And can I use any one of the animations file or just s_male2 file?

Thanks very much!!
Kha


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Old 06-18-2007, 12:33 PM   #103
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I believe (and someone correct me if I'm wrong - which is likely, given I have zero direct experience with this) this will not allow you to "create" animations. By "create" I mean actually add animations to the model. You have to replace existing ones. Then you can save the model off with a different name and specify the model to use in the utc (or ut*).


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Old 06-18-2007, 05:20 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kha
When I make a new animations in the s_male2 file, what else do I need to change to allow me import those animation into the game? Just adding a new line in the animation.2da file and call it using a script works?

And can I use any one of the animations file or just s_male2 file?

Thanks very much!!
Kha
What we ended up doing to add new animations to s_male02 was using an animation name that wasn't really used much.

The two looping animations I found that were mostly unused (only present on the Darth Malak model) were kdtlkangry and kdtlksad. If those don't show up in the NWMax animation name list - which I'm pretty sure they don't - call your animation something distinctive, like custom1start, and then edit the ascii model file and do a find-and-replace from custom1start to kdtlkangry.

You can call those two animations from scripting using the ANIMATION_LOOPING_KNEEL_TALK_ANGRY and ANIMATION_LOOPING_KNEEL_TALK_SAD constants.

As for whether you can use other model files... all I can say is try it and see. I had issues with some character files because when I tried to make animations I moved skin nodes, which just messes everything up.
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Old 06-19-2007, 07:33 PM   #105
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I was thinking about the s_male1 file since it is much smaller and faster to compile, but as you said let's try and see what happens. Thank you for the info!


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Old 07-02-2007, 09:00 AM   #106
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Is it just me being stupid, or does mdlops have trouble exporting emitters? I'm trying to work with m36aa_01 (Valley of the Dark Lords), but when GMax/NWMax (v 0.7) tries to import the emitters objects, it complains about not being able to convert "undefined" to float.

Just double checking if this is the case or if I'm doing something wrong...

On a tangential note... JdNoa, would you mind if I duplicate the mdlops functionality in my walkmesh utility? I think having the ability to import/export both the area model and its walkmesh would be invaluable to area modelers, to avoid progressive misalignment due to successive roundings if nothing else. Note that I wouldn't reuse the actual code (rather pointless since mdlops is Perl and my utility is C#), but I could certainly use the info about the .mdl and .mdx structure which can be gained by reading the source.
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Old 07-16-2007, 04:49 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnusll
Is it just me being stupid, or does mdlops have trouble exporting emitters? I'm trying to work with m36aa_01 (Valley of the Dark Lords), but when GMax/NWMax (v 0.7) tries to import the emitters objects, it complains about not being able to convert "undefined" to float.
Yes, emitters are yet another thing that we don't understand, so MDLOps doesn't have that sort of functionality .
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Old 07-16-2007, 05:34 PM   #108
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Well.... emitters are actually partially implemented but not very well tested. The specific problem you're describing is because I never tested the emitter code using K1 models and it's doing something wrong there.
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Old 08-03-2007, 06:50 PM   #109
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Hey JDnoa, one of the things in the past I had been working on was trying to make changes to mdlops so that it will support the larger model structures when converting to ascii and back. If I can find my notes on what I was changing I'll pass them on to you so that we can see if can't start make full fledged area models.


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Old 09-09-2007, 03:22 PM   #110
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what exacaly does mdlops do?

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Old 09-09-2007, 03:46 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Xander
what exacaly does mdlops do?
It's a converter tool that converts the MDL/MDX files used by the KOTOR games to hold 3d model data into an ASCII format the NWMax importer/exporter plugin for gmax/3dsmax can read.

In short it allows you to load 3D models from the game in a 3d application, and export back into a format the game can use (with some limitations since the MDL/MDX format is not fully understood).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Readme file
-----------------------
--<< What is this? >>--
-----------------------

This is a Perl script for converting
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic (kotor 1 for short)
AND Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic, The Sith Lords (kotor 2 for short)
binary models to ascii and back again.

Binary models are converted to an ascii format compatible
with NeverWinter Nights.

It can also do some other operations on models,
like renaming textures and replacing meshes.

------------------
--<< Features >>--
------------------
-Automatic detection of binary model version
-Automatic detection of model type
-works with trimesh models
-works with dangly mesh models
-has limited support for skin mesh models (see below for more details)
-model properties supported:
-diffuse
-ambient
-shadow
-render
-alpha
-self illumination
-when reading in a binary model a text file is created
that lists all the textures the model uses.
-replacer function lets you replace 1 tri-mesh in a binary
model with another tri-mesh from an ascii model
-renamer function lets you rename textures in a binary
model

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Old 09-09-2007, 07:06 PM   #112
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Has this been idiot proofed for guys like me?
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Old 09-12-2007, 08:33 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weiser_Cain
Has this been idiot proofed for guys like me?
Likely it hasn't if your asking now. Nothing is ever free from bad things happening from people making mistakes, especially with computers. (AKA Vista)


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Old 02-24-2008, 02:02 PM   #114
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Is someone still working in Mdlops? Could it be possible to make it able to recognize Max smooth groups?


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Old 02-24-2008, 02:23 PM   #115
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I cheat it by exporting my files to another format (in this case GLM, which is a Jedi Academy model format, because it automatically cleaves the model by smoothing group) then I reimport it.

You might want to get on magnusll's case and see if he can implement something similar in KAurora.

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Old 02-26-2008, 05:43 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InyriForge
I cheat it by exporting my files to another format (in this case GLM, which is a Jedi Academy model format, because it automatically cleaves the model by smoothing group) then I reimport it.

You might want to get on magnusll's case and see if he can implement something similar in KAurora.
The idea is that KAurora will be able to import/export any model when I'm finished. I'm completing work on emitters to release the 0.3; after that, I'll tackle animations and the "missing" node types (like skinmeshes and danglymeshes). So in the end KAurora will work a bit like MDLops on steroids. I wouldn't hold my breath though; progress will be slow.

As for the specific question, I'm not sure I understand it fully. NWMax does export smooth group info (it's one of the values of the face array), but as far as I know there's no place within the Kotor face structure in which to put this info. I don't have the code at hand right now, but IIRC I decoded enough of the fields stored within Kotor faces to realize there was simply no place in which to put smooth group values. So unless you're proposing some built-in model preprocessing that results in... whatever it is that Max does with its smooth groups, there's no way of using that info with the Kotor engine.

OTOH, if you *are* proprosing model preprocessing, I could certainly do it, but I need to understand what to do first...
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:08 AM   #117
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Hey Magnusll, Have you considered adapting NWMax's script code for converting models to convert the Kotor model's directly to a max format?


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Old 02-26-2008, 01:46 PM   #118
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Quote:
I'm not sure I understand it fully.
I'm not sure I do either, to be honest. All I really know is how the model is made and how it ends up.

I guess the basics of smoothing groups is that if you have four polygons in a square, and the two on the left are smoothing group 1 and the two on the right are smoothing group 2, it will 'cleave' the vertices between them (so instead of three vertices connecting them you'll get six -- three on the left and three on the right). This creates the 'seam' between the two smoothing groups. This is all fine and dandy, but somewhere along the way in the modeling process the vertices are not actually cleaved, so once the model gets into KotOR the smoothing groups are rendered basically as useless information, as the game doesn't seem to use them in any way. I was just wondering if KAurora could potentially step in and correct this issue somehow (the most straightforward way seems to be to break up the model by smoothing group, but knowing what's 'best' is more you department).

I don't know if the original issue is with the exporter or what, but this just seems like a prime opportunity to take care of it to avoid folks having to manually cut their models apart to get them looking right.

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Old 02-26-2008, 08:03 PM   #119
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What I would like is the other way around... when I get a body model and pass through mdlops it creates seams where there were none in the game, in the model the vertices are separated but before mdlops the game engine render the seam as they were conected you see no seam, after mdlops the seam appears.

Once Cchargin told he would look the smooth group thing to see how to render the normal here: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=157286


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Old 02-27-2008, 10:05 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InyriForge
I guess the basics of smoothing groups is that if you have four polygons in a square, and the two on the left are smoothing group 1 and the two on the right are smoothing group 2, it will 'cleave' the vertices between them (so instead of three vertices connecting them you'll get six -- three on the left and three on the right). This creates the 'seam' between the two smoothing groups.
Ah... vertex duplication according to smoothing groups. Well it's certainly doable... in fact KAurora already does it, except it duplicates vertices according to the needs of the tvert structure. I could add the code needed to also manipulate the vertices due to smooth group info, though it probably doesn't make much sense to do it until I've completed the handling of all the Kotor node types.
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