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Old 11-29-2004, 06:37 AM   #41
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A valid point, I suppose. Regardless, it was the general make-or-break point of the series, b/c it shifted the course of the entire saga in a very new and different direction.

Traitor was probably the most unique SW novel out there, with Shatterpoint a close second. I love reading Matt Stover, b/c he writes to make you think, even though it's just SW "popcorn" reading. Even when I disagree with his philosophies, they make you think.


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Old 12-01-2004, 03:34 AM   #42
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Traitor is a one of a kind. In fact, it will remain a one of a kind in SW EU. It would be creative suicide for an EU author to attempt to do such a thing again.... but I bet you there will be someone stupid who does try

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Old 12-01-2004, 01:44 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
but I bet you there will be someone stupid who does try
I hope your wrong about that, because you are definitely dead on with the rest of it.
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Old 12-01-2004, 01:54 PM   #44
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i have to say, im over halfway through Star By Star, and the actual storyline is good, but the book is poorly written in my opinion



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Old 12-01-2004, 11:55 PM   #45
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Just came across this and thought it was interesting:

Quote:
Imagine taking a beloved character and killing him...why that's just not Star Wars! What's next? Will someone have the audacity to kill another beloved character, like Obiwan Kenobi? HOW DARE....oops, oh, yeah. Well, at least Lucas repented, because in TPM, none of the major characters die...oops, wait a minute.
The R. A. Salvatore interview here is very interesting.
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Old 12-02-2004, 03:09 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
i have to say, im over halfway through Star By Star, and the actual storyline is good, but the book is poorly written in my opinion
BAH ! you just dont listen lep ! It will NEVER be the same as if you read them in sequence as originally intended. Theres a lot of momentous stuff happenning in SBS. I find its drawn up parts only building the tension. By the time coruscant was taken, I felt just as defeated as the NR did

but still, you do it *your* way, the *crazy* way

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Old 12-02-2004, 03:46 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
BAH ! you just dont listen lep ! It will NEVER be the same as if you read them in sequence as originally intended. Theres a lot of momentous stuff happenning in SBS. I find its drawn up parts only building the tension. By the time coruscant was taken, I felt just as defeated as the NR did

but still, you do it *your* way, the *crazy* way

mtfbwya

nonononono you dont understand, the storyline is good, very good in fact, and there hasnt been a single reference i havnt understood so far, but its like the Lord Of The Rings for me, great story but it was written in such a way that i hated reading it, in the case of Star By Star sometimes the language is very lacklustre, the characters seem a little wooden at times and the writer i swear is making up branches of the New Republic government as he goes along - every single EU book i have read has different names for New Republic government departments. The senates also a good example, i know its been bombed at least once in the EU but its description changes EVERY SINGLE BOOK. just a couple of niggling factors



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Old 12-02-2004, 10:38 AM   #48
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You have to keep in mind that there are several years of time between the Galactic Civil War and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Not just time, peace time. The galaxy has been at war for decades, the New Republic has been at war since it was created. When you finally add peace into the equation, it is logical that the needs of the government would change drastically, and thus that the government itself would change drastically. To see that there has been a lot of change, just think about this: could you imagine Fey'lya as Chief of State during HoT or Gavin Darklighter as leader of Rogue Squadron during the X-Wing series?
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Old 12-02-2004, 04:35 PM   #49
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I'v never known when luke and Mara got married is that in any of the previuse books
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Old 12-02-2004, 05:03 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
You have to keep in mind that there are several years of time between the Galactic Civil War and the Yuuzhan Vong invasion. Not just time, peace time. The galaxy has been at war for decades, the New Republic has been at war since it was created. When you finally add peace into the equation, it is logical that the needs of the government would change drastically, and thus that the government itself would change drastically. To see that there has been a lot of change, just think about this: could you imagine Fey'lya as Chief of State during HoT or Gavin Darklighter as leader of Rogue Squadron during the X-Wing series?
thats not what i mean, names of departments of the government are always changing. I havnt read the EU in a while i dont rememer Leia's actual title being Chief Of State, i thought she was President. Departments of the New Republic government that do the same thing are given different names all the time. As i said before the Senate seems to change its description every book. Im not talking about storyline changes, just plain coninuity errors



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Old 12-02-2004, 05:40 PM   #51
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Thats what I'm saying. Times are changing, its likely that the government will look different after years of unprecedented peace time. I'll try to clear up the Chief of State thing though. When it was Mon Mothma, she went by Chief of State. When Leia took over, she also took the title of Chief of State. When Leia took a leave of absence, Ponc Gavrisom took the title of President. My assumption is that President is something of a temporary title.
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Old 12-02-2004, 09:28 PM   #52
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that doesnt explain the ever changing shifts in the New Republics military structure or the senates coninuous changes. face it, the EU has coninuity errors like all series



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Old 12-02-2004, 09:33 PM   #53
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of course it has continuity errors. i'm not disputing that by any means. but you make it sound like there is something particularly bad in this book, so I was trying to address that. there is not as much continuity error as you might think. a lot of what appears to be inconsistent, can actually be rationalized.







and some of it is explained in books 2-8
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Old 12-03-2004, 06:31 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shok_Tinoktin
and some of it is explained in books 2-8
yeah Leper, who died and made you chief of Lucasbooks continuity.... :P stiff shyte, read the book, enjoy the story/or not and try for at least once, if that is at all possible for someone of your intellectual talents, to make some comments worthy of discussing, rather than whine about $hitty little things like that in an absolutely HUGE and awesome book....(and series mind you)

*goes back to laugh at other threads where leper is starting to grate on people* it is so wonderfully obvious you are from the UK, btw here in aus, the favoured descriptor is "whingin pom"


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Old 12-03-2004, 07:29 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by Astrotoy7
yeah Leper, who died and made you chief of Lucasbooks continuity.... :P stiff shyte, read the book, enjoy the story/or not and try for at least once, if that is at all possible for someone of your intellectual talents, to make some comments worthy of discussing, rather than whine about $hitty little things like that in an absolutely HUGE and awesome book....(and series mind you)

*goes back to laugh at other threads where leper is starting to grate on people* it is so wonderfully obvious you are from the UK, btw here in aus, the favoured descriptor is "whingin pom"


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oh dear, took that a bit seriously didnt we?

i have quite enough "intellectual talents" to judge the book im reading, but i havnt done that yet, ive just stated my impressions so far. I havnt got to the end yet and im still giving it a chance, all im sayin so far is i find the constant restructuring of the New Republic government quite distracting in the entire EU, not just this book.



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Old 12-03-2004, 07:29 AM   #56
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Well I just finish vector prime not to long a go and I fought it was great but it needed more combat.


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Old 12-03-2004, 08:04 AM   #57
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Well I just finish vector prime not to long a go and I fought it was great but it needed more combat.
the cheif plot point i didnt like about Vector Prime was that it ended with the Republic winning the battle, it hardly seemed the best way to introduce this enemy that would procede to invade and conquer most of the galaxy. Other than that, i thought Chewbacca's death was poor, i felt certain he would die in actual combat, as it seemed the only fitting way to go. Maybe it was a suprise move but it just, well, wasnt very good.



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Old 12-03-2004, 10:47 AM   #58
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But if he died in combat, then someone would have to be a better warrior than him. The way it was, it took an entire moon to take him down. Don't get me wrong though, NJO has its share of poor deaths.
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Old 12-03-2004, 01:19 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
the cheif plot point i didnt like about Vector Prime was that it ended with the Republic winning the battle, it hardly seemed the best way to introduce this enemy that would procede to invade and conquer most of the galaxy. Other than that, i thought Chewbacca's death was poor, i felt certain he would die in actual combat, as it seemed the only fitting way to go. Maybe it was a suprise move but it just, well, wasnt very good.
Chewies death was a sacrifice. His life for anakins. It also set up for a whole new dynamic between Han Solo, who quickly loses the plot, and anakin...Both are deeply haunted by Chewies death, not the least anakin, who shares alot of guilt and grief over it

it was an interesting, and perhaps the only way to have allowed the authors to explore Hans fall to the emotional depths he did..... it was a brave move on the part of NJO authors, and the fact that "immortalised" characters arent actually immortal is a comforting thing to know in the EU...otherwise it would become boring very quickly

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Old 12-14-2004, 06:08 PM   #60
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ok im gettin through Star By Star slowly (ive got a lot of work to do atm) and the battle of Coruscant has just begun and Anakin has just snuffed it.

on the subject of Anakins death: excellent, very well done to the author, now that is the way Chewie should have gone down. I was a little sad to see Anakin go, I was hoping Jacen or Jaina would die, both have annoyed me throughout their presence in the EU, Anakin was a much better character than they are.



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Old 12-15-2004, 03:32 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
ok im gettin through Star By Star slowly (ive got a lot of work to do atm) and the battle of Coruscant has just begun and Anakin has just snuffed it.

on the subject of Anakins death: excellent, very well done to the author, now that is the way Chewie should have gone down. I was a little sad to see Anakin go, I was hoping Jacen or Jaina would die, both have annoyed me throughout their presence in the EU, Anakin was a much better character than they are.
that's the thing. Anakin was a well liked character by many. His loss allowed the author(s) to reflect on each of the characters, summarising how each has responded differently in a time of turmoil. It also helped crystallise the jedi cause I believe, and possibly make things a *little* easier for Luke, who was starting to encounter an increasing amount of division within the ranks of the jedi

keep reading ! SBS is cool....but nothing like TUF, which is an absolutely awesome finale...DaMMIT! I wish they would hurry with those post NJO novels...Im getting sick of the clone wars era stuff



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Old 12-15-2004, 04:55 AM   #62
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Does the Republic retake Coruscant? and what happens there while the Vong control it?

also ive got as far as Jaina and a few of the other Jedi going to stop the Vong from keeping Anakins body, and i liked the fact that Jaina used a dark side power, does she go any further down that route, because that would make her character far less annoying to me



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Old 12-15-2004, 05:48 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
Does the Republic retake Coruscant? and what happens there while the Vong control it?

also ive got as far as Jaina and a few of the other Jedi going to stop the Vong from keeping Anakins body, and i liked the fact that Jaina used a dark side power, does she go any further down that route, because that would make her character far less annoying to me
Man ! why dont you just read the books. What the Vong do to coruscant is awesome and horrifying ! As for the republic retaking ? it..... READ "THE UNIFYING FORCE" !

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Old 12-15-2004, 05:55 AM   #64
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because i dont have time! look how long its taken me to get through Star By Star



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Old 12-16-2004, 12:27 PM   #65
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Star by Star?

I started reading the NJO recently and actely enjoyed it despite the death of some main characters. Bt then I starteded reading Star by Star. I just doesn't seem to fit as well as the rest of the NJO does. Is there anybody else who thinks this?
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Old 12-16-2004, 04:00 PM   #66
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what is Star by Star?


Some of the funniest moments in Star Wars:

Qui-Gon Jinn (gesturing to nudge Watto's mind): "I don't have anything else, but credits will do fine."
Watto: "No, they won't!"
Qui-Gon Jinn (nudging harder): "Credits will do fine."
Watto: "No, they won't! What, you think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian! Mind tricks don't work on me, only money!"

Exile: "I believe they call that 'pulling a Bindo'"

Mace Windu:"This party's over!"
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Old 12-16-2004, 06:14 PM   #67
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One of the books in the New Jedi order series haven't you heard of them?
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:13 AM   #68
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yer ive seen them and i knwo bout em, but not star by star


Some of the funniest moments in Star Wars:

Qui-Gon Jinn (gesturing to nudge Watto's mind): "I don't have anything else, but credits will do fine."
Watto: "No, they won't!"
Qui-Gon Jinn (nudging harder): "Credits will do fine."
Watto: "No, they won't! What, you think you're some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? I'm a Toydarian! Mind tricks don't work on me, only money!"

Exile: "I believe they call that 'pulling a Bindo'"

Mace Windu:"This party's over!"
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Old 12-17-2004, 01:44 AM   #69
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Hmm.... SBS is one of the greatest books in the NJO.... That crazy metallica fan Leper is reading it right now as well, and there is a thread here where he tells us all about it

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...hreadid=140223

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Old 12-18-2004, 10:40 AM   #70
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It's just not written as well and it seems out of place
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Old 12-18-2004, 02:28 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Samnmax221
It's just not written as well and it seems out of place
how far into it are you ??

had you read the preceding books ??

SBS can be a bit ofverwhelming....alot is going on. I remember reading it over a cpl months duration, rather than a few weeks. Made all the epic events even more huge in my mind

good luck with it, hey if you dont end up gettin into it, return it and get Survivors Quest

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Old 12-20-2004, 05:46 PM   #72
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Actually, I thought Star by Star fit the series like a glove; without spoiling anything it's definitely the Empire Strikes Back of the saga. It's a lot to take in, though; a lot of different plots are running in a lot of different directions. However, in my opinion, this adds to it rather than detracts, particularly given that it was Troy Denning's first venture into writing novels for the SW universe - no small task to be given SbS, trust me.

Ignore that last comment by Astro:
Quote:
good luck with it, hey if you dont end up gettin into it, return it and get Survivors Quest
. He's got something against Tim Zahn... but even I'll admit that SQ was not the best of the SW books I've read. Just wait till you're around the end, you'll find you love SbS.


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Old 12-21-2004, 07:17 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Master_Keralys
...Ignore that last comment by Astro: . He's got something against Tim Zahn... but even I'll admit that SQ was not the best of the SW books I've read. Just wait till you're around the end, you'll find you love SbS.
Hey ! I wasnt being sarcastic ! I just thought that if he cant enjoy SBS then he shouldnt bother with the NJO and stick to something familiar, like Zahn and his *groan* over-recycled and over-used themes... yep, cool in 1990. But c'mon its 15 damn years onward now ! (and 20 in EU years !!!!)

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Old 01-08-2005, 07:45 AM   #74
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ok, finished Star By Star a litle while ago, and it wasnt awful, but i dont think it was awesome, Coruscant falling should have really merited its own book, i was dissapointed with how it took second place to the voxyn storyline, allthough Anakins death was an excellent piece of writing. Compared to Chewie's death, it was far far better. Actually reading this book i felt Chewie could have quite feasibly died fighting Tsavong Lah, and i maintain my disappointment with the way that he died. Star By Star was good in many places though, i enjoyed Borsk Fey'la's death - scheming to the last and what i did find promising was the rising of the dark side in Jaina towards the end - an interesting twist to a character i previously found rather boring (of the 3 solo children the one that died was the only one i liked). i cant be too critical of Star By Star though because i bought and read the next book in the series, Dark Journey, so SBS must have done its job.

Dark Journey was fairly enjoyable, I was disappointed Jaina didnt go further down the dark path and she seems at the end of the book to be recovering from her near fall. The swiftly deteriorating battle over Coruscant at the start was my favorite sequence of the planets fall, particularly the pilot who notes with horror that Coruscants lights were going out, a very powerful image in my view. im undecided whether to continue reading the series, what is the next book? and more importantly is it any good?



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Old 01-08-2005, 04:28 PM   #75
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The next book is Rebel Dawn, which is the first half of the Enemy Lines duology. As far as how good it is, I'm the wrong person to ask. I don't care for Aaron Allston's writing style, but most people do. Of course, if you do finish Enemy Lines, then you will be ready for Traitor, one of the best SW books in existence.
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:16 PM   #76
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I actuely enjoyed rebel dawn (Yes I managed to read through 3 more books since my last post) I liked the trickery and subterfuge that Allston added.
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:29 AM   #77
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actually the book is rebel dream

was reading it today and i hit upon the first reference i didnt understand since i picked up the NJO at Star By Star. Luke says he named the Twin Suns squadron in memory of Tatooine, so has Tatooine been destroyed?



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Old 01-18-2005, 06:07 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leper Messiah
actually the book is rebel dream

was reading it today and i hit upon the first reference i didnt understand since i picked up the NJO at Star By Star. Luke says he named the Twin Suns squadron in memory of Tatooine, so has Tatooine been destroyed?
no, it hasnt !! [/quick simple answer]

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Old 01-18-2005, 06:49 AM   #79
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well whats "in memory" all about



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Old 01-18-2005, 07:49 AM   #80
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