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Old 05-05-2005, 06:28 PM   #1
stevedroid
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Angry Express your hate for the final level

I know this thread isn't a help or hint, but it does contain spoilers, so I felt it best to keep it in this forusm.

Anyway, man I hated that level! Probably the worst way to end one of the most fun and original games I played in a long time.

1) You're effectively on a time limit for the whole level. Whether it's getting to Olie before he gets killed or escaping the water, you're rushed for the entire level. Being on a time limit in a game where exploration is a primary focus is a bad thing. I know you can go back, but I just hate being rushed in a platformer.

2) It can be frustratingly difficult, nuff said.

3) It's ugly. I understand a meat/circus nightmare isn't supposed to be attractive, but it's ugly even within that context. There's verly little detail and the whole thing is just bland.

4) I don't particuarly enjoy the sound of someone hawking up a loogy in real life - do you think want to hear it every 5 seconds for 10-20 minutes? I had to turn my speakers off because the stupid sound effect for the sword spitters was so unbearable.

It's truely sad the the final level isn't representative of the quality of rest of the game. Thans for letting me vent about it though
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Old 05-05-2005, 10:59 PM   #2
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It's frustrating, certainly, but not THAT bad. When you actually figure out what to do, it's not overly difficult, and I imagine it'll be at least fairly fun on the second playthrough.


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Old 05-05-2005, 11:24 PM   #3
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The fights rule, I was very frustrated at the obstacle course-type stuff, but it was well thought out.

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Old 05-06-2005, 07:49 AM   #4
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What really got my goat was Raz's dad taunting me with the same dialogue loop, considering I probably died on one sequence over fifty times. I guess the final level should be hard though, it would have been lame if I had just breezed through it.

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Old 05-08-2005, 02:57 AM   #5
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I agree completely. This level is making me pull my hair out. I'm not much of a platform or action gamer, but I was a big LucasArts graphic adventure fan back in the day so I had to check out Tim Schaefer's new game. It's been fantastic so far, but now that I'm at the end and it's become SO action oriented, my enjoyment of the game is being sucked out (at least for this moment).

Anyway, I need help with the water/acrobat scene. I can get to the point where Raz's father is juggling. When you jump on him he juggles you up in the air, then what? I try to float down I wind up in the water. I might be able to float back to the grids I was on before I jumped to Raz's father. What the hell am I trying to get to when Raz's father juggles me up? I'm having trouble getting to that point as it is, since any minute little mistep sends me plunging into the water. (This is INCREDIBLY frustrating for me since I don't play action games much) When I have gotten up there, I can't seem to see any platforms to get onto, and I seem to only get one toss up before I am plunging back into the water again. I think I'm panicking when I have the chance now because I want to get it right so bad, so I might be missing something pretty obvious. Please help!

When I finally got passed the Little Ollie bit, I was more relieved than satisfied. It's going to be the same thing with this level. I'll just be glad to get it over with.

EDIT: Never mind guys, I got past it. I almost slipped back in the water climbing up that ladder too. Man I swear I would have had to break something. I feel drained...

Last edited by sjack; 05-08-2005 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 05-08-2005, 03:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by RemiO
It's frustrating, certainly, but not THAT bad. When you actually figure out what to do, it's not overly difficult, and I imagine it'll be at least fairly fun on the second playthrough.
I agree with this. Even though my first run through of the entire Meat Circus level was played for several hours, subsequent play throughs have been easier since I know exactly what to do.

Ugh, but man...the first tiem g oing through that section? Whew, I've never felt so frustrated by a game for a long time.


"So what IS that stuff they pack canned hams with?"
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Old 05-08-2005, 09:44 PM   #7
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The Olie-chasing part wasn't too terrible, but I absolutely HATED the obstacle course. Those flaming nets were absolutely evil. Fortunately the two-headed dad monster was relatively easy to beat, and the ending cutscene was full of Schafer's traditional butterflies-in-the-stomach cuteness that he shoves in your face at the end of his games.


YOU'RE LIKE MOLASSES GOING UPHILL IN JANUARY...WITH CRUTCHES!
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Old 05-08-2005, 10:53 PM   #8
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I PROPOSE WE SEND OUR COPY BACK TO MAJESCO AND DEMAND A NEW VERSION SANS MEAT CIRCUS!
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Old 05-12-2005, 11:14 PM   #9
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So I played through the game again to get 100% and I did find the level easier, but I still despised it!

It's not bad just because it's difficult, it's bad because it's bad. It's ugly, and just about all the audio for the level is the most grating, annoying stuff. Between the stupid sword hawking and Raz's dad poking in every 10 seconds I can't bear to keep my speakers turned on.
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Old 05-13-2005, 12:40 PM   #10
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Bah, i hate this level, I'm right now at the bit with the oddly-shaped clingy walls. Uggh.

What's so annoying is that when you die, you start again at the bottom of the ropes, but unlike the first time you played it, Raz's dad is still throwing fire at him. Add to that the fact that after jumping up each rope, you have to wait for Raz to stop swinging, and it gets very irritating and a tad unfair.

Edit: also why are the controls so unresponsive during this part? I sometimes can't get into my inventory screen to remap buttons and just died there because I had to press R-trigger three times before Raz got on his levitating ball thing.


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Just ignore that and pretend you have something better to do.
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Old 05-14-2005, 02:06 PM   #11
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Re: Express your hate for the final level

I agree with your frustration, and the annoying sound loops just add to the overall hatred of the level. However, after I was finished I thought it was a pretty well designed level if not for the technical issues (excessive looping audio, unfair control play)

Quote:
Originally posted by stevedroid

1) You're effectively on a time limit for the whole level. Whether it's getting to Olie before he gets killed or escaping the water, you're rushed for the entire level. Being on a time limit in a game where exploration is a primary focus is a bad thing. I know you can go back, but I just hate being rushed in a platformer.
I agree with you on this. No enthusiastic fan likes to be rushed when trying to collect and explore a world. For the whole catching Olie and the bunny thing, you have two options. 1.) Complete this part and meet Olie at the front of the roller coaster, but don't get on it yet. Then go back to the beginning of the level and explore and collect to your hearts delight (in fact- I had to get rank 100. hint hint!) 2.) Collect all the figments in the area- blowing up the meat monsters before they get to Olie, before letting Olie get the bunny. Once Olie gets to the next level, you don't have time to collect anything on the lower level, because more and more meat monsters will be spawned each successive level- (my gawd, I was annoyed with Olie saying "Come here, little bunny! Dad's going to kill you! Ow! My face" over and over and over. I started to relish whenever the meat monsters actually killed him). Olie does regenerate his energy each time he flies up to the next level which helps quite a bit.

Quote:
Originally posted by stevedroid
2) It can be frustratingly difficult, nuff said.
True dat.

Quote:
Originally posted by stevedroid
3) It's ugly. I understand a meat/circus nightmare isn't supposed to be attractive, but it's ugly even within that context. There's verly little detail and the whole thing is just bland.
Don't agree with you there. Raz was raised in a circus, so I think a lot of people expected the last level to be the "Circus Finale". I think the main drawback here was that you couldn't explore this world as freely as the others because of the rushed time frame, and unfair enemies at every corner.

Quote:
Originally posted by stevedroid
4) I don't particuarly enjoy the sound of someone hawking up a loogy in real life - do you think want to hear it every 5 seconds for 10-20 minutes? I had to turn my speakers off because the stupid sound effect for the sword spitters was so unbearable.
Agreed. I think there were too many sword spitters, and their accuracy was annoyingly unfair. Especially on the roller coaster. What are the chances they could hit a moving target at those speeds... And in regards to the other looping dialog like Raz's father saying the same line over and over- I don't know if the game ran into a tigher budget or was rushed to a deadline during the development of this part, but it seems that not enough voice dialog was recorded in this part. I can see the developer's wanted to make this part feel rushed and anxious like with the rising water, but to the player it was downright annoying with the repeated sounds; especially since the player very likely had to play this one several times to get it right.


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Old 08-16-2005, 08:26 PM   #12
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I'm sorry, but that Olie boy is just retarded. I'd like nothing more than to beat him over the head with his own stupid little propeller hat and shove that bunny right up his pooper.

Okay, that's all I signed up for. Bye everybody!!
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Old 08-16-2005, 08:38 PM   #13
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Well I liked the graphics... DISPISE all escort missions. EVAR! Loved the last boss. Really I had little difficulty with this except the flaming netting. *shudders*

Edit:I just realized if you went into the mind of everyone who beat this game, somewhere you'd probably find a dark evil room with a memory vault marked "Meat Circus Trauma".


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Old 08-17-2005, 08:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RemiO
It's frustrating, certainly, but not THAT bad. When you actually figure out what to do, it's not overly difficult, and I imagine it'll be at least fairly fun on the second playthrough.
Yea...thats true...but I totally agree about it being frustrating (And the hacking bunny did get on my nerves...I enjoyed setting him on fire )
I did the first part with Little Oly and the bunnie like...twenty or thirty times because I didn't get the hang of the targets at first and the second target made me want to pull my hair out, but by the time i did get it I could get through all four sections in like...ten seconds. I did get used to the level after a while and I appreciated how easy the battles with The Butcher and Raz's father were.


All he knew was that you couldn't hope to try for the big stuff, like world peace and happiness, but you might just about be able to achieve some tiny deed that'd make the world, in a small way, a better place.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smon
Well I liked the graphics... DISPISE all escort missions. EVAR! Loved the last boss. Really I had little difficulty with this except the flaming netting. *shudders*

Edit:I just realized if you went into the mind of everyone who beat this game, somewhere you'd probably find a dark evil room with a memory vault marked "Meat Circus Trauma".
*.* The flaming netting...(Starts shaking uncontrollably.) Yeah THAT got on my nerves. For some reason i couldn't avoid getting burnt on the (Third/fourth?) one every time I had to do this. And when I got really unlucky it kept knocking me off into the water.

The last boss made me happy He was even easier then the first and second ones.


All he knew was that you couldn't hope to try for the big stuff, like world peace and happiness, but you might just about be able to achieve some tiny deed that'd make the world, in a small way, a better place.
Like shooting someone.
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My Psychonauts Website: http://thornytowermentalhospital.bravehost.com/
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:58 PM   #16
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I will never think of a butcher shop the same, and, oh god, being like me and oversensitive, I was so freaked out by the memory of Oly's bunny getting killed, the thought of little Oly dying a terrible death (and the little bunny!)

I actually got Oly through on the first time though.

Except I hated the Tunnel of Love.
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:51 PM   #17
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HATED the Oly part and DESPISED the Tunnel part... HATE... HATE THE MEAT CIRCUS.


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Old 08-25-2005, 05:59 PM   #18
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This might make me a hero or a nerd, but remember Raz's evil-father-guy? Well, the Big Top was one of the easiest, to me, and even funnest, platforming levels I've played. No problem with Butcher, or giant firey butcher.

Sans the first 2 parts, Meat Circus was pretty fun.

Raz's dad's face pressing into your brain, at first I thought was Sasha trying to get you out of there/saved. Weird.

And you know what, why did you jump into the brain tank, not jump to your brain and get Sasha, Milla, and Ford to re-cranialize you, exactly?
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:20 PM   #19
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I have only love for the Meatymeatymeat circus. Although adorable Oly made me hit myself with the controller. It left a red/purple mark. Anyway, I liked it. After doing that acrobatics part I was incredibly pleased. Nice sense of mastery I had just then.
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCheez
This might make me a hero or a nerd, but remember Raz's evil-father-guy? Well, the Big Top was one of the easiest, to me, and even funnest, platforming levels I've played. No problem with Butcher, or giant firey butcher.

Sans the first 2 parts, Meat Circus was pretty fun.

Raz's dad's face pressing into your brain, at first I thought was Sasha trying to get you out of there/saved. Weird.

And you know what, why did you jump into the brain tank, not jump to your brain and get Sasha, Milla, and Ford to re-cranialize you, exactly?
They had just had the crap blasted out of them. =v
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:56 PM   #21
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Meat Circus...How do I hate the, let me count the ways.

Seriously, if the first part wasn't annoying enough, the acrobatic crap with your evil dad. I've literally only completed that once, it's not even funny. Subsequent time, I've somehow not been able to ride the ladder without dunkin the water. i don't really get it, and for that, i hate it.

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Old 08-30-2005, 12:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCheez
This might make me a hero or a nerd, but remember Raz's evil-father-guy? Well, the Big Top was one of the easiest, to me, and even funnest, platforming levels I've played. No problem with Butcher, or giant firey butcher.

Sans the first 2 parts, Meat Circus was pretty fun.

Raz's dad's face pressing into your brain, at first I thought was Sasha trying to get you out of there/saved. Weird.

And you know what, why did you jump into the brain tank, not jump to your brain and get Sasha, Milla, and Ford to re-cranialize you, exactly?
2 reasons, 1)yeah they got the crap blown outta them. and 2)I think Raz needs the brain juice to stay alive, like Hector Con Carne.


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Old 08-31-2005, 05:22 PM   #23
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Man. You guys are so...haters. I liked the graphics-though that ladder that you climb first in the acrobatic part looked like a girrrraffe. =3 I heart the music quite a bit--but the knife throwers were just... so unfair. Hate them. But I guess I'm supposed too, eh?
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Old 08-31-2005, 05:24 PM   #24
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And Oly was cute, dangit!
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Old 08-31-2005, 08:44 PM   #25
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Ok...
don't hate me for this...but I kind of wanted to set little Olly and the bunny on fire after that first part...yea. I forgave him after I saw the vault...but before that, I was like, OMG, this guy has given me nothing but trouble and remorse throughout this whole game AND YOUR ASKING ME TO KEEP HIM SAFE!?

Yea...I'm over that now. I just beat the game again over the weekend and had absolutely no trouble throughout the first part...and the part with Raz's dad never bothered me TOO much...cept for those net things. (Still couldn't get past that darned tunnel of love right away tho x_x


All he knew was that you couldn't hope to try for the big stuff, like world peace and happiness, but you might just about be able to achieve some tiny deed that'd make the world, in a small way, a better place.
Like shooting someone.
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetz Darke
Ok...
don't hate me for this...but I kind of wanted to set little Olly and the bunny on fire after that first part...yea. I forgave him after I saw the vault...but before that, I was like, OMG, this guy has given me nothing but trouble and remorse throughout this whole game AND YOUR ASKING ME TO KEEP HIM SAFE!?

Yea...I'm over that now. I just beat the game again over the weekend and had absolutely no trouble throughout the first part...and the part with Raz's dad never bothered me TOO much...cept for those net things. (Still couldn't get past that darned tunnel of love right away tho x_x
It wasn't asking so much as "You gotta help me protect the bunnies!" cuteness. Yeah- I was angry at Oleander until I saw that vault. The littlest bunny. sniffle. BUT. My brother and I just kept looking at it and saying crap like 'NOOOO.' 'WHY?!' 'I would do the same thing!' 'Sob!' 'Who would have a child with that guy?' 'Why are Morry's eyes green when his wee but brown/whatever when he's big?'
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Old 09-01-2005, 04:50 PM   #27
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I always thought that it was Oleander that kept calling out to Raz and popping up. ._. It looked like his face... And those two yellow curvy teeth of his. <-< Pretendin' he has a full set of em. Bah!
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Old 09-01-2005, 06:20 PM   #28
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l:< You guys are mean. Wah.
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Old 09-04-2005, 02:43 PM   #29
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I always thought that it was Oleander that kept calling out to Raz and popping up. ._. It looked like his face... And those two yellow curvy teeth of his. <-< Pretendin' he has a full set of em. Bah!
You wouldn't have to worry about losing all of them, and you couldn't them removed, and you never need braces! I want teeth like that.
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Old 10-16-2005, 01:32 PM   #30
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I'm good w/ da teeth I got




You have the insanity of a MANATEE!!!!!!11

I gotta car and now I'm on da road. Watch out highway, here I come!!!!
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Old 10-16-2005, 06:44 PM   #31
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This level was easy if you rememberd to put your invisiblity on when you meet evil Raz's Dad.

The nets were the easiest part of the whole thing for me. It was the bubble part that got me killed numerous times. As well as that ladder. I always floated to a later part in it causing me to climb up not slide up the whole way.

It had a nice view.
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Old 03-31-2006, 06:00 AM   #32
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the annoying rings of fire....-after passing the 2nd or 3rd ring i landed on the small platform where the bubbles came up from,just a short stop to swich on invisibility and then leviatjump up in bubble stream again (if i swich it on from the beginning it don`t last long enough,for me).that help me much to avoid dads ´cruise missiles´`
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Old 04-05-2006, 07:07 AM   #33
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Why does Raz's dad hate you so much. Throwing flaming pointy balls at him. He is quite heartless.

.:EDIT:.
Umm... Never mind. I understand now.


Play Loom!

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Old 04-05-2006, 07:14 AM   #34
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Yeah, those sword-spitters were so damn annoying. Especially if you were aiming for 100%.
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Old 04-05-2006, 07:46 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintor
Yeah, those sword-spitters were so damn annoying. Especially if you were aiming for 100%.
But if you're aiming for 100% you should have regenerate. Keep running around 'til your health restores.


Play Loom!
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Old 12-06-2006, 02:49 PM   #36
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Exclamation Psychonauts is a video game? Bob damn it, I want to speak discordianism!

(see subject).

Oh, and let me know what this whole thing is about. That's life, not the video game. Difference? Maybe. Maybe not, eh? Oh, and how do I hate the final level, as if there could be an end to the madness. LOL (I'm not really laughing)... Final knowledge? That's a fricken negative. Philosophy anyone?

Good luck, you godless sparks of divine imitation!



Yeah... My initials are J.E.K. and I've been a fat man, most of my life. Thinner now though. Sexier, and vegan. My god, I miss bacon. Gone to the dark side, I have. More vegetable than man. Go figure.

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Old 01-06-2007, 03:17 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smon
Edit:I just realized if you went into the mind of everyone who beat this game, somewhere you'd probably find a dark evil room with a memory vault marked "Meat Circus Trauma".
Haha. Probably.

Damn the meat circus to hell! I hate that level. It's gross, it's hard, the first part is an escort mission. Damn it to hell!

When I first saw the creepy face, I had the feeling that it was Razputin's dad, but I didn't think his intentions were good, so it freaked me out....
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:12 PM   #38
martmeister
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I abhorred the escort mission; easy enough if the damn boy would hold onto his bunny. But no! Once again, gotta save the day.
Oly did look retarded.
Raz's fake-dad had too few lines. They were original, but tiring.
To be honest, it took me a few game sessions and hint guides to get through the water obstacle.
The camera angle was annoying; trying to fix the camera while jumping over perilous objects isn't cool.
I was hoping for a more interactive ending. Maybe the meat circus dissolving into a regular circus then Raz's ending with his dad.
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:50 AM   #39
hoob
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I had issues with certain jumping sections of the game. It nearly caused me to break my keyboard. I think I broke my space bar, though. It's been less responsive since...
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Old 06-27-2007, 11:21 AM   #40
Toliver
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I finished the game (again) last night. Surprisingly, I ended up breezing right through the dreaded Meat Circus. The Flaming Cages took me only two tries and, boom, I was through them and on to the end ladder climb.
It's just weird how one time through it takes me forever to get through the Meat Circus and then another time through it's easy as can be. Go figure.

I also discovered that the game cheats. :-) By the time I arrived at the Flaming Cages the water level was extremely low. But I screwed up and when Raz "re-set" to make the second attempt, the water level was very high in comparison to the first attempt. So no matter how many times you fall off the Flaming Cages, the water level is always at the same height. It's the same if you fall into the water during the last half (the Psi-Float through the Rings of Fire and the Rotating Hatchets). The water always restarts at the same level.
Which is a bummer. Too bad the game doesn't remember the level of the water. It would have been more of a challenge if it did. Then there would be times when you got to the last event (the long ladder climb) and maybe you wouldn't make it when the ladder dips back down before arching back up.

And I play with the sound down during the Meat Circus. I got real tired of Little Oly saying "Ow, that hurts!", the Ghost saying "Razputin!" and the Evil Dad saying "You used to like to play catch. Think fast!" :-P
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